Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[MrMan999]

Having had some time to slepp on this, I came back to this thread and realised something, something that quite a few people have already pointed out. She was asking for a kickstarted to make this documentory, when at least two groups, Movie Bob and Extra Credits, have done the same thing for free. I cant remember Extra Credits video, but Bob had two Game Overthinkers dedicated to this, one was showing all the bad aspects, and the other showing all the good aspects of female characters in games.

Also, another thought, why doesnt she go after Anime? Thats probably as big of offender, if not bigger, than videogames.

Because Anime is a niche within a niche. Videogames are mainstream.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Speaking of which, has anyone ever written about the stereotypes male characters get forced into? They're equally rooted in traditional gender stereotypes. Some say that it's okay because their qualities are "positive", but I think they're actually just as harmful to structure an identity around as their female equivalents (in fact, why do we consider these positive traits? Why are we so down on the traits traditionally considered feminine?). Actually, they might be more directly harmful, because the stereotypical male identity revolves around personal sacrifice, the denial of one's own pain and emotions, and violence.

I'm sorry, just so I'm clear, is what you're saying here that male characters have it just as bad because they are always depicted as selfless heroes who, regardless of their personal struggles, work for the greater good and save the day? Are you really saying that's just as bad as female characters, who typically serve as either window dressing or victims, or both?

I don't know about "equally bad". I do not know of a scale to measure an issue like this, I'm not sure exactly what "bad" is in this context (bad writing? bad for people's self-image? encouraging bad behaviors?). I'm not even sure if there's any real meaning to measuring "bad" in this situation (it isn't concrete in the way the wage gap or criminal sentencing patterns are, after all) or if what we're looking at are really two separate issues at all.

I would, however, argue that the "selfless hero" persona you describe exists as part of a traditional male identity in which self-worth is defined solely by utility to others. I think that this idea encourages harmful behavior in men, including behaviors which are also harmful to women, and represents a real barrier to self actualization. I also think that the fact that our society sees these traditionally masculine traits as "positive" while looking down on traditionally female traits (which include a lot of things I would like to see male characters display more of) is just another part of the problem.

 

[CrazyGirl17]

(Face palm) I hate people. I really do.

How much do I care about these kinds of people?

captcha: diddly-squat

Exactly!

 

[Kahunaburger]

Having had some time to slepp on this, I came back to this thread and realised something, something that quite a few people have already pointed out. She was asking for a kickstarted to make this documentory, when at least two groups, Movie Bob and Extra Credits, have done the same thing for free. I cant remember Extra Credits video, but Bob had two Game Overthinkers dedicated to this, one was showing all the bad aspects, and the other showing all the good aspects of female characters in games.

Also, another thought, why doesnt she go after Anime? Thats probably as big of offender, if not bigger, than videogames.

Uh, you do recall why Extra Credits left, right? Because they were very much not doing their thing for free and didn't like getting underpaid. Also, in terms of analysis and insight, Feminist Frequency > Extra Credits >>>>> Game Overthinker. Just sayin'

 

[saintdane05]

By Tropes, does it mean TV Tropes? If it does, it might be the best thing ever.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Speaking of which, has anyone ever written about the stereotypes male characters get forced into? They're equally rooted in traditional gender stereotypes. Some say that it's okay because their qualities are "positive", but I think they're actually just as harmful to structure an identity around as their female equivalents (in fact, why do we consider these positive traits? Why are we so down on the traits traditionally considered feminine?). Actually, they might be more directly harmful, because the stereotypical male identity revolves around personal sacrifice, the denial of one's own pain and emotions, and violence.

I'm sorry, just so I'm clear, is what you're saying here that male characters have it just as bad because they are always depicted as selfless heroes who, regardless of their personal struggles, work for the greater good and save the day? Are you really saying that's just as bad as female characters, who typically serve as either window dressing or victims, or both?

I don't know about "equally bad". I do not know of a scale to measure an issue like this, I'm not sure exactly what "bad" is in this context (bad writing? bad for people's self-image? encouraging bad behaviors?). I'm not even sure if there's any real meaning to measuring "bad" in this situation (it isn't concrete in the way the wage gap or criminal sentencing patterns are, after all) or if what we're looking at are really two separate issues at all.

I would, however, argue that the "selfless hero" persona you describe exists as part of a traditional male identity in which self-worth is defined solely by utility to others. I think that this idea encourages harmful behavior in men, including behaviors which are also harmful to women, and represents a real barrier to self actualization. I also think that the fact that our society sees these traditionally masculine traits as "positive" while looking down on traditionally female traits (which include a lot of things I would like to see male characters display more of) is just another part of the problem.

It doesn't strike you a perhaps reaching a bit far to say that males always being portrayed a selfless heroes who rise to the occasion and bail other people out, at great personal risk, through violent means or not, is a negative stereotype? That depicting rampant altruism actually hurts the male identity?

That's like saying "Depicting men as always being charitable has a negative effect, because it reduces my ability to determine whether or not I want to be charitable." I think you may be reaching; more to the point, I think this may be the most tortured example of a 'positive stereotype that's actually negative' I've ever seen. You learn something new every day.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

 

[Phasmal]

I think the problem with the gaming community is the adults assume the kids posting vile things are adults too.
They are 13 year old idiots, a vocal minority. I hope the real adult gaming community has passed the immaturity these youtubers are displaying

To quote the Extra Credits video on harrassment:
` the people at fatuglyorslutty.com have provided us with hours of audio recordings have shown us these are grown men who should know better`.

It's not just `13 year old idiots`, it shouldn't be dismissed as such.
I know a lot of it is younger people, but we need to look at why its so rampant.
I've never been called a slut for reading a book or going to see a film.

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Also, another thought, why doesnt she go after Anime? Thats probably as big of offender, if not bigger, than videogames.

Probably because she doesn't speak Japanese, and anything she said would thus be torn apart by people who do. This is because a lot of female-targeted material and work by major female creators doesn't make it into English (although a surprising amount does, and I think the fact that far more women are reading translated Japanese comics than American comics is partially a result of that). There are whole generations of major female creators she wouldn't be able to cover, as well as cultural issues she wouldn't be able to address as well as native Japanese critics already are (no, the stuff they write isn't in English either).

There's a lot more equality in Japanese comics (of which Japanese animation is an offshoot) than in their Western equivalents, both in terms of readers and creators. Marketers are also much more aware of their female audience when it comes to drawing up ads. Because of that, a lot of the usual arguments about issues like sexual objectification fall flat because they go both ways in Japanese media in ways they really don't here. That's not to say there aren't problems, but they are, by and large, different problems that exist in a different context.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

 

[MrMan999]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

 

[itsthesheppy]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

It rarely does, when people are forced to realize things about themselves they'd rather not.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

Oh look, MrMan999, with their paperboy title and white, male avatar, doesn't want to talk about privilege.

Sexist!

[small][small]Was the sarcasm obvious enough? [/small][/small]

 

[OtherSideofSky]

Speaking of which, has anyone ever written about the stereotypes male characters get forced into?

I know FF has definitely touched on this, and there's a pretty significant body of scholarly work on the subject.

Really? Which video? I just went through what I'm pretty sure is her whole archive and don't remember her specifically mentioning anything. I must have missed one.

I was really asking more specifically about video games. I've certainly read quite a few scholarly pieces on male characters in literature and film, but I don't really see it come up in the gaming community and I feel like it probably should be talked about. Writing about the portrayal of men that I've seen also tends to take a very different approach from things I've read about the portrayal of women, and I often feel that it ends up lacking something as a result. I think the only piece on the subject I've ever really been satisfied with was written by a brilliant French woman (whose name I cannot remember, pronounce, or spell) about classical Greek pottery.

 

[MrMan999]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

Oh look, MrMan999, with their paperboy title and white, male avatar, doesn't want to talk about privilege.

Sexist!

[small][small]Was the sarcasm obvious enough? [/small][/small]

It could be a little more obvious. And show some respect to Captain Harlock.

 

[Clearing the Eye]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

Oh look, MrMan999, with their paperboy title and white, male avatar, doesn't want to talk about privilege.

Sexist!

[small][small]Was the sarcasm obvious enough? [/small][/small]

It could be a little more obvious. And show some respect to Captain Harlock.

If I reveal to you that I have no idea who that is, will you hit me?

 

[MrMan999]

Oh god, her bias and ignorance - they burn my mind!

She actually pointed to the Smurfs when talking about sexism. I mean... what? Smurfette was created as an example of something totally beautiful and irresistable to men, someone of whom the Smurfs would all fall so blindly in love with, that they would fall apart as a society. Oh yeah, poor Smurfette, how sexist and cruel of them to make a woman with total power over men.

Heads up, hun: people like pretty girls and toned guys. If this is news to you, you might want to research a few million years of human culture.

Such is the problem with dealing with highly sexist or bigoted people, this post, to me, slips into Poe's Law. I cannot tell if you are being sarcastic. What you just posted there was incredibly sexist, but it's sheer volume of ignorance is such that it might be satire. But I can't tell, because there is a preponderance of people who actually think that stuff.

I wasn't being sarcastic (except for the part in italics). I think she's an idiot. A little less so than the, er, "gentlemen" posting disgustingly obscene comments on her page. But still an idiot all the same.

Okay, then I have some bad news for you. You don't get it. You might think you get it, but you don't. You don't get the Smurfette Principle, and you don't get how to say things that are not sexist. You single out the "gentlemen" posting those vile comments, but you're on their team. They're in the field playing the game; you're the one squirting water into their mouths when they take a break.

If you want to get it; if you want to be a decent person who doesn't say incredibly sexist things like the incredibly sexist stuff you just said in the post I quoted earlier, then I suggest you put a little more effort into researching and understanding the feminist perspective, *from* their perspective. There are innumerable blogs and vlogs and magazines and such to choose from. I can recommend a few; Shakesville and Tiger Beatdown are both very good. Sady Doyle is a delight, and you can follow her on tumblr and twitter and such (she also contributes to Tiger Beatdown).

Enrich yourself.

I'll pass. I prefer to spend my time with individuals who don't care about their gender. The type that goes on and on about their sex make me want to vomit. I don't care what your DNA looks like or what genitals you have any more than I care about what shade of white your eyeball is.

Feminism = sexism. If you're not on both teams, I don't care to know ya.

You're kidding yourself. If you refuse to even put in a modicum of effort in engaging in the conversation that's going on, then I'm not sure why you're even here. You don't get the issue and you don't have any interest in learning. You're instead retreating into the "I don't care about gender" bunker, which is made of wet cardboard. You clearly do; you posted in this thread. You're just cornered. I've offered you an opportunity to actually man up and do your homework, and you backed down.

Console yourself in the knowledge that you are in good company. The internet is rich with people who say sexist things and then claim they are anything but sexist. You're like my uncle, who can't start a conversation without saying "Now I don't have any problems with black people, but..."

News flash. You do. You do care about gender, you do say sexist things, even if you don't mean it, and it would make you a better person to understand why.

Why should I care what gender you describe yourself as or how many and of what type your chromosomes are? Neither of them have any bearing at all on what type of person you are. You're talking to a pansexual here. *points to Escapist Gaymers group badge* But feel free to continue to think I have an issue with humans possessing two X chromosomes. The idea is funny in it's inanity.

A little less "women this" and "men that" and a little more seeing us all as humans. If you stop to count the number of women in a movie, you're the only one noticing the genders. Do you also count the number of Australian Aboriginal people in movies? No? Why not? Are you racist? No. You just don't care what race the people are. They're all just... people.

Oh, to add to the list of concepts you should look up, try "privilege." Because wow.

Can we please not start the "Privilege" Debate. That conversation never goes anywhere nice.

Oh look, MrMan999, with their paperboy title and white, male avatar, doesn't want to talk about privilege.

Sexist!

[small][small]Was the sarcasm obvious enough? [/small][/small]

It could be a little more obvious. And show some respect to Captain Harlock.

If I reveal to you that I have no idea who that is, will you hit me?

Nope.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Anime/CaptainHarlock
Just Read up. Its a very good series.

 

[WindKnight]

I'm just saying that a one-sided diatribe against the treatment of women in video games serves no good purpose, so while I wholeheartedly disagree with their tone and word choice, I share a negative view of this women who seems intent to counter sexism with more sexism.

So tell me what 'point' I'm missing?

I'm not seeing anything in her demeanor or language that impiles her series is going to be 'this is bad and you should feel bad', more 'here's some things you may not have thought of I hope to educate you about'

She's not here to tell you off or demonise you, she's here to give you new ideas and new ways of looking at things. its not 'STOP DOING THIS!', its 'maybe you could try this?'

 

[itsthesheppy]

I'm just saying that a one-sided diatribe against the treatment of women in video games serves no good purpose, so while I wholeheartedly disagree with their tone and word choice, I share a negative view of this women who seems intent to counter sexism with more sexism.

So tell me what 'point' I'm missing?

I'm not seeing anything in her demeanor or language that impiles her series is going to be 'this is bad and you should feel bad', more 'here's some things you may not have thought of I hope to educate you about'

She's not here to tell you off or demonise you, she's here to give you new ideas and new ways of looking at things. its not 'STOP DOING THIS!', its 'maybe you could try this?'

Because whenever women point out that they are being mistreated in pop culture or marginalized in society at all, that is a personal attack against me and my manhood. That's me, specifically, by the way. So I have to fight back. For my rights.

 

[MrMan999]

I'm just saying that a one-sided diatribe against the treatment of women in video games serves no good purpose, so while I wholeheartedly disagree with their tone and word choice, I share a negative view of this women who seems intent to counter sexism with more sexism.

So tell me what 'point' I'm missing?

I'm not seeing anything in her demeanor or language that impiles her series is going to be 'this is bad and you should feel bad', more 'here's some things you may not have thought of I hope to educate you about'

She's not here to tell you off or demonise you, she's here to give you new ideas and new ways of looking at things. its not 'STOP DOING THIS!', its 'maybe you could try this?'

Because whenever women point out that they are being mistreated in pop culture or marginalized in society at all, that is a personal attack against me and my manhood. That's me, specifically, by the way. So I have to fight back. For my rights.

YOU GOTTA FIGHT! FOR YOUR RIGHT! TO PARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRTY! Sorry. Couldn't resist.