Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

ResonanceSD

Elite Member
Legacy
Dec 14, 2009
4,538
5
43
Richardplex said:
Wow. Talk about one sided journalism. For a rational view of why people are against this

Hey dude, just a quick tip, try reading the article before defending youtube commenters.

Now then, are you insane? Do you seriously think that because you disagree with her position that people should be allowed to say this kind of stuff?
 

Thaliur

New member
Jan 3, 2008
617
0
0
Bertylicious said:
Buretsu said:
Bertylicious said:
Ha! People are hilariously stupid.

I'd quite like to see what she produces; it'd be nice to see something other than the massive titted, cookie-cutter, females from most games.
But they go so well with the ridiculously broad shoulders, absurdly chiseled abs, perfectly formed posteriors, and carefully mussed hair of the cookie-cutter males from most games.
Heh, true! Then again the only games I can think of where the female protagonists aren't massive chested sex dolls from the planet action hero are ones where they are children, though I am pretty drunk.

Hey wait, there was that Japanese game on the Wii where you had to photograph ghosts or something where you played some sort of normal looking lady college student wasn't there? Phew! Sexism in video games dispelled!

Saying that I'm all for hyper sexualised protagonists, but I just don't get why they're still throwing bimbos at us to be honest. I mean, all you'd need is some Amelie looking wench with glasses and you've pretty much cornered the nerd fantasy market.
I still agree with what Buretsu said. Men in videogames suffer from stereotypes as much as women.

It's not like there are no adult women in videogames who are not overly sexualised though:
In TRON 2.0 there is Mercury, who frequently rescues a male protagonist who story-wise should be rather nerdy, but actually falls more into the broad-shouldered cookie-cutter area.
Half-Life 2 has Alyx.
In Portal, the main protagonist is a woman many players might not even actually see, except for a short time at the beginning.
In Beyond Good and Evil, the protagonist is a female reporter/investigator/rebel.
The Metroid series famously features Samus Aran.
MAss Effect (and most Bioware games) features strong female characters (possibly including the player).

I would rather be associated with these six examples than having the choice between broad-shouldered, perfectly chiseled meatheads, scientists who would never get a job in any real science lab, fearful nerdy/geeky characters and Gordon Freeman.

Actually, thinking about it, Gordon Freeman is OK as a representation for me.
 

Akyho

New member
Nov 28, 2010
140
0
0
I am all for feminism. However can we just stop having people point out "This is not a true representative of women. It is sexist." Instead tell us WHAT the actual representation that should be used and go from there.

Right now all that happens is like a rat in a box. You hit it when it goes for food, you hit when it tries to drink, you hit it when it moves. It gets to a point to decides that the best action to not be hut is to just sit in the corner and die. Or just ignore you, bite you and do its own thing.
 

Mylinkay Asdara

Waiting watcher
Nov 28, 2010
934
0
0
I am chilled by the comments to be honest. I'm a female gamer and while I would not consider myself "called" to the feminist agenda (or at least the extreme bits of it, which have the loudest advocates though they may be a minority of the feminist crowd) I am well aware of the slant in the representation of my gender in my favorite entertainment medium.

This is where most males point out that they too are stereotyped. This is true and yet it is not the same type of stereotyping in most cases. Let me briefly explain what I mean there. Men are, by and large in video games, portrayed as either really masculine, tough, burly, physical, and good in combat or smart, clever, charming, suave, etc. These are positive stereotypes. They are still stereotypes, they can still be harmful and misrepresentative of the group, but they are positive attributes being exaggerated - and they are the type of attributes that are generally viewed as positive by males as well as females. This is like the stereotype that all Asians are good at math or all African Americans are particularly athletic. It isn't okay to generalize to that degree, but it isn't the same thing as negative stereotypes like Asian people are bad drivers or African American people talk through movies. Women, on the other hand, are stereotyped in games in ways that are not considered positive by females as well as males in general, the slant is clearly toward a physical ideal that is perceived to be valued by males (talking about giant breasts and skimpy outfits here).

I've not been happy about this issue, but I've not seen a need to be ardently proactive about it either, because I feel that as the industry gains more audience equality the problem will correct itself. It did used to be that most players were guys. It makes some sense that they would be catered to as the primary audience and the consideration for female players wouldn't be a high priority (being that they were the minority). As things have begun to even out though, there is a disturbing trend for a certain group of players who are males lashing out at any female player who wants to recognize her values in what she plays. As if we are unwelcome. As if we don't deserve to be part of the community and feel comfortable in it as much as anyone else. This is particularly painful for me as someone who has always been part of the community from the days when it was very much a boys club and thought things would naturally improve and that the improvement would be welcomed.

The thing is there to be studied and she wants to study it - I don't see the issue. This isn't a campaign to boycott games for being what they've been, it's a research project into what have they been, indeed, and where are they going. If we can't stand to be questioned about our history as a community we are not going to develop in a healthy direction. Maybe that is the crux of the problem though. There isn't a "game community" really. We aren't so much a real community as we are a group of people who enjoy a shared hobby and had in the past been forced to band together in defense of that hobby against scrutiny of a wider society. Now that issue is waning and our cohesion is waning with it perhaps. But I digress.

What shocks me is the comments and the hate. I often convince myself that such things are outlying elements of a few people who would be that way no matter where they were or what they were doing. The more this issue comes up though the more I see that I really may not even want to be part of this "community" if that is what the sentiment of it is. So much hatred over simply pointing out that things have been unequal and the outright denial of the possibility that anything about the video games in question could ever be unequal... it just staggers me.
 

El Dwarfio

New member
Jan 30, 2012
349
0
0
Richardplex said:
Wow. Talk about one sided journalism. For a rational view of why people are against this for a reason why people are against this who aren't misogynistic pricks, that isn't just picking youtube comments, which are vile on every subject under the sun, and calling it news, here [Edit 3 (chronological order is for the weak!):while it makes some valid points, take it with a grain of salt, as ForeverPandering is opinionated and does enjoy bitching and making fun of people. But still, he gives valid non-misogynist points against the project]:
This, this, a thousands times this!!! I had just formulated my point in my head so that I felt confident enough that I could post it without every idiot under the escapist sun accusing me of supporting the douches in the article (which I obviously don't). When I watch this video and find it makes the exact same points I would have (even about the completely unrelated and currently irrelevant topic of bronies) with pictures and shit to boot!
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,759
0
0
LastGreatBlasphemer said:
From inside gaming culture:
Gaming is sexist (we know) Woman gets sexist statements thrown at her. (We know, and those guys should be shot.) Ergo, she's only stating what we already know, but wants us to throw money at her rather than providing progressive ideas.
If "we know," why do so many outright deny it and still more are so oblivious to it?
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
24,759
0
0
El Dwarfio said:
This, this, a thousands times this!!! I had just formulated my point in my head so that I felt confident enough that I could post it without every idiot under the escapist sun accusing me of supporting the douches in the article (which I obviously don't). When I watch this video and find it makes the exact same points I would have (even about the completely unrelated and currently irrelevant topic of bronies) with pictures and shit to boot!
So you were going to knock down a bunch of strawmen before you saw he summed up those strawmen so perfectly for you?
 

El Dwarfio

New member
Jan 30, 2012
349
0
0
You think thats unfair? I'll tell you whats unfair - fucking stereotyping against men.

ALMOST EVERY FUCKING GAME has an action hero, he's always handsome and often smart or ripped, who's an ace shot or ace detective and f there's any girls to have he almost always gets them.

It's fucking sickening, games should be about boring normal people and their boring normal lives and boring normal girls and boring normal cars and boring normal jobs. If I see another ripped male soldier or suave, swift talking hero I'm gonna have a fucking aneurysm.

How dare people use the media as a form of escapism to depict things they like that are unrepresentative of real life.

EDIT: but yeah those commenters mentioned in the article are scum, didn't think I'd need to say it...

EDIT 2:

Zachary Amaranth said:
El Dwarfio said:
This, this, a thousands times this!!! I had just formulated my point in my head so that I felt confident enough that I could post it without every idiot under the escapist sun accusing me of supporting the douches in the article (which I obviously don't). When I watch this video and find it makes the exact same points I would have (even about the completely unrelated and currently irrelevant topic of bronies) with pictures and shit to boot!
So you were going to knock down a bunch of strawmen before you saw he summed up those strawmen so perfectly for you?
Think your mis-using the term straw-man there my friend, but if you're trying to imply we're ignoring the point of the article, I would argue that the point is so puerile it doesn't warrant reporting. Yeah some people can be cunts when given anonymity, shock horror, what of it?
 

Wintermoot

New member
Aug 20, 2009
6,563
0
0
haven,t read the comments but I assume they say "DURR GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN DURRR" proving her correct on the other hand I don,t really see how woman are being portrayed badly by video games even sex symbols like Lara Craft can be seen as positive role models considering Lara is skilled in various fields.
PS why does she need 60K to do this? YT videos especially like this don,t really cost anything?
 

theultimateend

New member
Nov 1, 2007
3,621
0
0
Phasmal said:
Aaaand cue the people defending this sort of shit.

This stuff happens all the time in the gaming community and it needs to be pointed out and heckled as much as possible.

Hopefully, the gaming community will be dragged kicking and screaming towards a point where this kind of crap is at least frowned upon. (But I am sure I will be called `extreme` for even thinking there is a problem).
And then all you have is music and movies to contend with.

I'm all for progress but I find it odd that you could release the same game in movie form and see no controversy.

El Dwarfio said:
You think thats unfair? I'll tell you whats unfair - fucking stereotyping against men.

ALMOST EVERY FUCKING GAME has an action hero, he's always handsome and often smart or ripped, who's an ace shot or ace detective and f there's any girls to have he almost always gets them.

It's fucking sickening, games should be about boring normal people and their boring normal lives and boring normal girls and boring normal cars and boring normal jobs. If I see another ripped male soldier or suave, swift talking hero I'm gonna have a fucking aneurysm.

How dare people use the media as a form of escapism to depict things they like that are unrepresentative of real life.
Probably shouldn't bring reality into this. It's only cool to accept this all as fact.
 

Lionsfan

I miss my old avatar
Jan 29, 2010
2,842
0
0
yeti585 said:
Am I the only one that went back 61 pages of comments and found that 99% of comments are actually complaining about the comments section being full of sexist comments
1. Yes you probably are
2. I'm not disagreeing with you, but maybe some of the comments were deleted?
3. This is just how the news works, take the loudest group of any position (oftentimes these groups are very small and rarely represent the overall group), then try to present it as what "everybody" is thinking.

Now I'm not saying that there isn't sexism in Video Games, but shouldn't we try to get stronger arguments/sources than fucking YouTube comments? The YouTube comments section is probably one of the worst places on the internet, how is this news? I would be willing to bet that almost all of those sexist comments were made by people who either A- created an account for the sole use of trolling, or B- don't use their real names on YouTube so they can get away with whatever they feel like. Anonymous sexist comments really don't mean anything

henritje said:
haven,t read the comments but I assume they say "DURR GET BACK IN THE KITCHEN DURRR" proving her correct on the other hand I don,t really see how woman are being portrayed badly by video games even sex symbols like Lara Craft can be seen as positive role models considering Lara is skilled in various fields.
PS why does she need 60K to do this? YT videos especially like this don,t really cost anything?
I believe it was only $6000, which is still fucking ridiculous

theultimateend said:
Phasmal said:
Aaaand cue the people defending this sort of shit.

This stuff happens all the time in the gaming community and it needs to be pointed out and heckled as much as possible.

Hopefully, the gaming community will be dragged kicking and screaming towards a point where this kind of crap is at least frowned upon. (But I am sure I will be called `extreme` for even thinking there is a problem).
And then all you have is music and movies to contend with.
And the magazine industry, and TV, and every other entertainment medium out there
 

Master_of_Oldskool

New member
Sep 5, 2008
699
0
0
I have two points to make:

1) I really hate to be that guy who replies "why is this news?? shit lik this hapenns every day" to every article he reads, up to and including articles on mass murder, but why is this news, shit like this happens every day. Sexist a-holes on YouTube will be sexist a-holes on YouTube. The depth and quantity of the hate isn't even particularly remarkable, nor is it hatred for some new subject the internet has never gotten around to before. It's just more obnoxious, vile, but ultimately inconsequential douchebaggery from more perfect examples of the GIFT.

2) I'm not overly optimistic about this series. Citing Skullgirls as an example of a mysoginistic game is a bit off in my opinion. It's like citing a Tarantino film as an example of a violent gore-porn movie: the entire point is to take that aspect and crank it right over the top to the point that it's clearly meant to be a gentle poke at, if not an outright satire of, the sort of work that tries to use that trope in earnest. I acknowledge it's a noble effort, and I'll probably give it a watch and see where this goes, but I'm not expecting much in the way of revolutionary new ideas.
 

Dryk

New member
Dec 4, 2011
981
0
0
Now I'm no expert in politics, but I'm pretty sure that when somebody claims to be suffering from mild oppression/misrepresentation trying to get them labelled a terrorist isn't the best move
 

SilverBullets000

New member
Apr 11, 2012
215
0
0
I think only one person has really commented on my problem with the whole scenario: Do we really want games to get rid of the stereotypes for either sex?

Do you know how boring it would be to play a game that replicates reality right down to a T? Think about it, playing as an average Joe who has to file his taxes would put most gamers to sleep.
No, I don't think women should be reduced to eye-candy trophies that the male characters have to rescue, but would it really help to kill off all sterotypes? Even Princess Peach, who actually isn't over-sexualized? What about Ivy, who is actually one of the tougher fighters in SoulCalibur despite her lacking the armor (or general clothing)? Astoroth, who is gigantic and muscular (and almost as naked as Ivy)?
Yes, videogames could use more positive female protagonists. Even Samus has found herself in an uncomfortable position in her more recent games. However, we had more reason to be upset with her portrayal in Other M because it just did not fit her character, whereas the others were made to be over-sexualized or just weak characters from the very begining. That's the crux of the problem, really. They're made to be that way because videogames are fantasies being marketed to a largly male demographic. I don't want to see them all disapear, either, but I would like to see more respectable representations of the fairer sex in videogames.
Not that we talk about Miku, Xiangua, or even Hammer all that often, eh? There are more of them than you'd think. Just that the negatives still outnumber the positives.

...and a lot of other people have already pointed out the stupidity of the kickstarter, I don't really need to repeat their arguments.

Point: I don't want stereotypes to completely dissapear because then gaming would actually become boring. They need to be less ham-handed, and more nonsterotypical characters should exist to balance out the others, mostly for the female demographic.
 

BehattedWanderer

Fell off the Alligator.
Jun 24, 2009
5,237
0
0
Susan Arendt said:
Exactly. The comments, for the most part, don't discuss whether or not her point of view is valid, or whether the documentary would be worthwhile, they just come out swinging about how she's a Jew that needs a good dicking...except she's a lesbian and the commenters wouldn't fuck her, anyway.

Disagreeing with her point of view is fine, as is thinking her Kickstarter is a lousy idea. This isn't about whether or not her point of view is correct, it's about the sheer level of vitriol being directed at her. People frequently claim there's no sexism in gaming communities...well, take a look, gang. It's out there and it's ugly. Just saying "we knew this would happen" and shrugging it off isn't enough. Maybe some readers aren't "learning anything" because they're aware this goes on, but perhaps we educate some who truly didn't know it got this bad.
But there's a deeper problem we encounter when faced with this. Even those of us that listen to the disparity that exists between gender portrayal with the mind to change things have very little effect against the tsunami of ignorant bile that these people project. We can support the projects, yes, and spread awareness, and we can try and instruct others that the portrayal of one of the walking meat slabs that are the varied space marines and foot soldiers of popular gaming are not an equivalent set of problems as bikini-clad martial artists, and show them that even assuming so is a fallacy, but like a tsunami, it's hard to fight, it's easiest to board up, wait until the worst is over, and start recovering. We can ignore it, and filter out the parts of the community that are reasonable and those that are jeering because they find jeers to be a form of communication, but the insipid shouting of these asshats is exponentially louder than our discourse asking what can be done to rectify this inequality. Quite simply, we don't know how to fight it, as a community. Game devs can help more than we can, but foregoing a character creation sheet ripped from TVTropes is apparently something hard to do, and it's gonna take more than just a couple of competent, goal-oriented, real female characters to get this ball rolling. As a society, we're not good at actually confronting problems, and that gets even more compounded in communities like ours, one build around consequence-free anonymity. Right now, our only recourse is ignoring it, turning a blind eye, and that's not how to stop unwanted behavior. Unfortunately, we don't have many other feasible ways to stifle this behavior.
 

Scars Unseen

^ ^ v v < > < > B A
May 7, 2009
3,028
0
0
Okay... well idiocy aside, that harassment was probably the best thing that could have happened to that project. No such thing as bad publicity and all that.

And ovendodger... going to have to file that one away. I'd love to use that one on my wife just so she could remind me that we don't own an oven... Well either that or she'd punch me. Could go either way.