Kickstarter Video Project Attracts Misogynist Horde

[RPGxMadness]

Look, even thought I think we should have discussion about gender equality(in roles and esthetics) in medias, but I don't think that she's the one person to do so, not responsibly and with an unbiased documentary-like manner. She has a history of turning and twisting certain parts of media into her own vision to make it seem as if it's objectifying her movement or her gender (my favorite example I can give is the straw feminist episode when she just starts making a Power Puff Girl episode seem like the most misogynistic material ever made, along with her Lego saga and her top 5 Ipod games where she says that the number one game had sexist hostess).

If you look at this from the message she wanted to send, she obviously never intended to approach about the subject with neutrality. You can look at the the original goals of her fundraiser, The 5 original videos of her documentary was negative, then she got major support so she obviously offered to do more videos at certain future set goals. The next 5 videos are certainly going in on a further more negative and contradictory light the only positive video was a 15,000$ bonus video. Let's be more clear, her original goal was 6,000$ and it's going in for negative and biased reasons, but it takes 15,000$ to make her talk about "Positive Female Characters" for one video out of her 13 part documentary, this is not objective in any way.

Again I do believe that we should have that discussion about diversity in media, but there are more objective ways to talk about it. You could have her discuss about all the negatives of the media, but have another person talk about the reality of the manner and another one talk about the positives the subject. Many excellent documentary does this, because they don't want to make your opinion they want you to make a conclusion about the subjects, whether it will change or solidify or even Educate you about a subject you didn't think about it before...

 

[Skeleon]

Who's that hot nurse character from the title screen of their video?
I kid, I kid...

 

[G-Slice]

I've no idea why we have an article about the negativity of youtube comments (Of all things, its youtube for god's sake). You really can just say that: X video has attracted Y horde on youtube. There really is no need for this at all.

 

[Vrex360]

I haven't seen those escapist posts you're talking about

Scroll down the first page, there's a guy making a heartfelt plea for the rights of 'e-intimidation'. I found a lot of similar posts throughout the comments as well.

I can't find it. I tried googling it. Got nothing

Okay for a second try go to Hitman Plan B and read the comments. I left a big comment on the first page (you can't miss it and I link the article below it.

I think if she used the money for other purposes it'd be fraud. Then again it'd be hard to bust her for.

Possibly but again people willingly gave her that money long after she had made clear that they had reached their goal. So perhaps she'll use it to fund future projects as well, who knows?

I never defended the youtube trolls.

Fair enough, I'm sorry but it just sort of seemed like you were.

You are literally the second person I've seen on the escapist to bring him up. And for what it's worth he did have an explanation for that freespeechvids page, a while after he took down the site, (it's called response to criticism or something, this all happened before I heard about him so I haven't kept up).

My point was that it's just as legitimate to get up in his grill about the same issue but he was never bombarded with rape threats.

Really, because the majority in this don't like them. There is no discussion value in it so people have moved on to the series itself.

True but like I said I've seen a few comments that honestly seemed to be defending the reaction against her, or acting like she deserved it. That I just find wrong.

Yeah only with other feminists with small disagreements, I've tried posting criticism (without insulting her) and all the comments need to be approved by her and criticism almost never shows up.

Actually I do remember seeing this really vicious response to her first video on LEGO that she allowed to be posted. Granted she then ripped him a new asshole in the comments (destroyed his argument in like two seconds) but still she let him post.

I cannot, I have tried, if she wants to make that space she certainly isn't making it in the youtube comments. There are other ways to deal with trolls. Please stop acting like she's willing to engage with people with strong disagreements on youtube. I know that she isn't.

I'd argue that if she's making video series like this then she is aware that she is encoring the wrath of people with potentially differing opinions and again I have seen some people strongly disagree with her position in the past manage to get into the comments. Frankly I actually like the idea of censoring comments, this whole reaction has made it pretty clear why it's a good idea.
Filter out the shit heads piece by piece. I can get behind that.

I don't think it's fine and dandy.

My point was that if people are calling her a feminazi ***** who should get raped like the youtube commentors (and some forum goers are) then I will call them like I see them.
I mean for what it's worth you seem level headed and reasonable, so don't think I'm addressing it to you.

 

[Vrex360]

Again the fact that this is the first time she's made a project aimed just at video games and also the first time she's recieved backlash.

This is not the first time she's received backlash I know that for a fact.
This is just the first time she's not censoring the comments, and she's also highlighting some of the worst ones on her website.

It's true but the backlash has never been this severe. She actually used to use the 'mencallmethings' hash tag on twitter to highlight the comments she'd had to censor but I guess this is the first time it got bad enough to warrant public attention.

Anyway can't be replying for a while, getting ready to get on a train to London, so if possible can we postpone further debate until I get the chance?

 

[RPGxMadness]

Okay, I'm done.

If this is what passes for journalism on the Escapist, then the Escapist can go fuck itself.

Goodbye, you won't be seeing me again.

Oh, was the ovendodger comment yours?

Oh for fuck's sake, I knew some smartass would crawl from the woodwork with some shit like this, I knew I said I wouldn't ever comment again, but I'll be fucked if I'm not gonna defend myself.

No, the comment wasn't mine, the fact that I think this kickstarter project is a load of horseshit* is irrelevant to my post, and has nothing to do with her being Jewish.

What I have a problem with is that this article is a piece of garbage of no POSSIBLE interest to anyone.

"OH NO! PEOPLE ARE BEING MEAN AND WACIST ON THE INTERWEBS!!!" You might as well link to any given thread on fucking 4chan and call that "Journalism".

I frankly can't fucking believe that this article was approved.

*Incidentally, if you want to know why I think it's horseshit, this video is a nice place to start:

Hey thanks, I was trying to find this video...

 

[Andy of Comix Inc]

Oh, feminism. Of course.

Everyone come back when you actually understand what "equality" is. And also, for fuck's sake, don't feed trolls, okay? So many of these people posting just want attention, or are acting like spactards on purpose to illicit negative response from you people. I'd wager 60% of the people on that Youtube comments section don't believe in what they're saying in the slightest.

You all look like fools, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Eleima]

Was it really necessary to quote all those appalling, obscene comments, I wonder...
I didn't know about this project, but in my mind, it's a valid one. She's right to bring these matters to light. I mean, just take a look at the Strong Female Character Flowchart, I dare you to tell me there's nothing wrong with the current state of affairs.

Spoiler: Strong Female Character Flowchart

 

[Amaror]

That's pretty discusting.
Although i don't support her either because, well she's asking for 6000 Dollars to do something many people do for free and she will probably still get some money through ads.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

Broseph, the entirety of the modern world is about the rights that men have. We are pretty well fucking represented. That is why there is a Women's/Gender Studies department at colleges and not a Men's Studies, because in general *every department* is a Men's Studies department.

...uh..lol. Please explain to me how astrophysics is a Men's Gender Studies department, or how geology is a Men's Gender Studies department.

Feminism is a force for the equality of women, so in that case it is concerned with women's rights. HOWEVER, it also recognizes that sexism and the patriarchy hurt men as well ("boys don't cry," assuming all men are emotionally dead, bloodthirsty brutes, etc). The two are not mutually exclusive.

So in your opinion, feminism is for women's equality and if they help men its a plus but not it's primary intention, correct? If that is how you view feminism, then your right to say that she shouldn't be expected to also focus on male gender issues. However, if I have misread this and your saying feminism is about gender equality, then I see no reason why she shouldn't devote time to male gender issues in video games as well.

HOWEVER, demanding that someone who clearly intends to just do a video *analyzing female characters* also analyze male characters is not the solution. She can absolutely agree that there are harmful male stereotypes (because there are) without wanting to spend her own time and money making a video about them. That's not the point of her project.

Then she is limiting herself.

That's what I mean when I say that screaming WHAT ABOUT TEH MENZ does nobody any favors, because it doesn't. Are there harmful male stereotypes? Yes. Is she obligated to do a video on them, even if she recognizes them as valid? No.

Screaming ABOUT TEH WEMONZ doesn't do much either besides create really long escapist threads.

Make your own damn video if you want it to exist so badly.

No.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

That's pretty discusting.
Although i don't support her either because, well she's asking for 6000 Dollars to do something many people do for free and she will probably still get some money through ads.

Yeah, I can't help that feel that one of the comments had at least some validity, in that there's a ton of people who've covered this ground very well, in depth, and for free, and that it does rather feel like she's saying ' if you think men and video games are sexist then I should have money.'

However, I do also feel that the moment you're attacking a person and not their opinions, your argument is invalid. Pick holes in what she's doing, but if you're attacking her for being female, or a jew, or a female gamer, or whatever else, you're doing it wrong and expect to be ignored by anyone with sense, admittedly a minority of those online, it seems.

There's been a similar discussion on Twitter, where politicians like Louise Mensch have been attacked horribly in nasty, sexist, and often threatening, personal ways.

Now, I consider her to be a pretty terrible person with horrible views, and the idea that the Occupy protesters bought tents and coffee, means that they have no reason to protest capitalism is borderline idiotic, but it's her opinions I dislike, not her owning a vagina.

All you do by attacking people for their gender, sexuality, race, etc is strengthen their position.

 

[Amaror]

Yeah, I can't help that feel that one of the comments had at least some validity, in that there's a ton of people who've covered this ground very well, in depth, and for free, and that it does rather feel like she's saying ' if you think men and video games are sexist then I should have money.'

However, I do also feel that the moment you're attacking a person and not their opinions, your argument is invalid. Pick holes in what she's doing, but if you're attacking her for being female, or a jew, or a female gamer, or whatever else, you're doing it wrong and expect to be ignored by anyone with sense, admittedly a minority of those online, it seems.

There's been a similar discussion on Twitter, where politicians like Louise Mensch have been attacked horribly in nasty, sexist, and often threatening, personal ways.

Now, I consider her to be a pretty terrible person with horrible views, and the idea that the Occupy protesters bought tents and coffee, means that they have no reason to protest capitalism is borderline idiotic, but it's her opinions I dislike, not her owning a vagina.

All you do by attacking people for their gender, sexuality, race, etc is strengthen their position.

Äh ... you got me a little confused here, buddy. Where did i attack her?
I just said that i think the attacks on her are pretty disgusting.
And then i said that while the attacks on her are disgusting i still do not agree or support the kickstarter.
I didn't said anything about her being female (Well, is said "her", but tell me how that is attacking) or a jew, or a female gamer.

 

[Helmholtz Watson]

snip

The article was crap, apparently rape culture doesn't have to have rape involved? Then it isn't rape culture!

 

[SenseOfTumour]

Yeah,.

Äh ... you got me a little confused here, buddy. Where did i attack her?
I just said that i think the attacks on her are pretty disgusting.
And then i said that while the attacks on her are disgusting i still do not agree or support the kickstarter.
I didn't said anything about her being female (Well, is said "her", but tell me how that is attacking) or a jew, or a female gamer.

Not you, sorry, I meant 'the moment you're attacking a person' to mean, when anyone's attacking a person, wasn't directed at anyone in this thread, but the idiots posting 'whore' comments and rape threats on youtube.

I basically agree that I don't think there's a need to get $6k for a video when people are willing to do this stuff for free, but, I guess that's the point of Kickstarter, if people want to pay, they can, it's quite possible she's manipulating women with the whole 'if you hate sexism then give me money' thing, but then maybe it's not.

 

[soh45400]

Media that targets female audience has stereotypes of men but you don't see men complaining about it. They just ignore it.
While I may even agree with some of her points, it just feels like she is attacking ALL MEN with them, and so does every other topic similar to this, which is probably the reason for the Youtube comments.
To stop or minimize comments like this it should have been merged with a Kickstarter project attacking male stereotypes in female targeted media and the video should have described both side by side.
Just a few examples of anti-male media. Arkham Asylum and Arkham City have ONLY MALE inmates except female super-villains(if you say both the Asylum and the City were just for men then why were even Poison Ivy, Catwoman and Harly there? come to think of it two of them would actually be weaker in a women's facility as Ivy won't have zombies and Harley won't have Joker), the Dead Island storyline shows all main female characters as brave, heroic and self-sacrificing while even the playable male characters are shown as flawed and weak. KOTR had two cases of cheating one by a male Jedi and the other by a woman both times the man was blamed. And these are just from games. In movies and on TV it gets worse but I won't list it. And I had started a thread asking if there are any movie love triangles with two women and one man(so I could watch it if I mistakenly watch stuff Hunger Games which has a love triangle with two men and one woman), I only received one or two proper titles.

 

[Naeras]

Media that targets female audience has stereotypes of men but you don't see men complaining about it. They just ignore it.

Yeah, no man has ever complained about romantic comedies. Or Twilight.

 

[soh45400]

Media that targets female audience has stereotypes of men but you don't see men complaining about it. They just ignore it.

Yeah, no man has ever complained about romantic comedies. Or Twilight.

They complain but no proper Youtube video or Kickstarter and the complains do not get enough media attention they are confined to the internet as far as media is concerned. Even the Legend of Korra was ruined by the Twilight syndrome and the first Avatar was one of my favorite shows. And I quoted other examples as well.
And when women complain about male oriented media, men join in. How many women do you see join in the complains about this.

 

[snave]

Why would you try to scathingly critique an interactive medium in a non-interactive form?

Her work risks:
a) getting lost in the noise of reviews and video blogs.
b) not getting through to those who kinda need to see it. Preaching to the choir basically.

I'd love to see a witty, well made Tropes vs Women work, conveying all the themes and hard work in research she describes, but it'd have to have some degree of interactivity as a hook. An indie game, board game, or heck, a tabletop RPG, even with a shorter video series tacked on. But a video critique alone just strikes me as picking the easy medium to work with, and tragically, a missed opportunity to make something truly memorable.

 

[gnihton]

You have not seen one of her videos and are talking out of your asses. How about you shut up and inform yourselfs about the work of this woman before you start spewing bullshit?

I don't believe in assertions. I watched a couple before posting that, and wasn't surprised to find out that they're about how all men are sexist.

 

[gnihton]

Then show me those videos because when I watched through them yesterday I failed to find one.

If you can't recognise the prejudice yourself then my sending you a link isn't going to change anything.