And Yahtzee just told me not call myself a gamer. There might not be really "hardcore" games on this toy, but I bet it's gonna have some superb sports games. FIFA 11: Kinect version. Can't wait for it.
Kinect Is Not For You
- Thread starter J.P. Sherman
- Start date
Listen, I just dont see the Kinect taking off. They made a mistake building this thing and are going to ride it all the way into the ground. You can buy an entire other system, for around the same price, this isnt just a snag, it's probably one of the worst move's they made in recent memory
RebellionXXI said:
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you. I'm glad somebody said it. That one point, is such an obvious fact to everyone. Except Microsoft... weird?
Doesn't work that way unfortunately. They dropped support for core titles about 18 months ago by the looks of things, and we're just now feeling the effects. If they use the money from Kinect to fund core games then we'll see the effect of that in 2013-2014 as it takes time to gear things up. That would be running close to the end of the 360s lifespan I expect so really this is the end of the 360 as a viable gamers system. Sure we'll continue to see plenty of multiplatform titles and seizure em ups but the PS3 is going to get more and more clearly defined as the gamers system of choice.The_Emperor said:
Interesting idea. Business decisions from Microsoft makes logical sense but I'm not convinced it will play through. the Xbox will have to rebrand itself for the casual space, it's not as if it has a family friendly image.
Secondly the novelty factor of you being the controller is, in my opinion, hardly a huge leap from a small remote control (looking at the Nintendo's marketing, the controller hardly imposes itself as a restriction). I think microsoft are trying to take itself into a market that's already educated in motion based gaming and the opportunity isn't as lucrative as it used to be.
Last point, microsoft's competition analysis doesn't inspire confidence. Most points in microsoft's case would primarily favour an audience who would be categorised as hardcore (improved graphics, adult games, established audience), also they're taking on an established market leader without much innovation, at a higher price. I'm pretty sure there is a marketing triangle tool for competition analysis that shows that you need to have unique selling point of some sort, though the name escapes me.
Microsoft have been playing catch up in a general sense over most of their businesses for the last few years, though I appreciate and believe strongly in competition it does seem to me microsoft generally seem inflexible when having to take on competitors.
Of course I may end up wrong in the long run, but the uncertainty makes this all exciting. Looking forward to seeing the marketing mix.
Secondly the novelty factor of you being the controller is, in my opinion, hardly a huge leap from a small remote control (looking at the Nintendo's marketing, the controller hardly imposes itself as a restriction). I think microsoft are trying to take itself into a market that's already educated in motion based gaming and the opportunity isn't as lucrative as it used to be.
Last point, microsoft's competition analysis doesn't inspire confidence. Most points in microsoft's case would primarily favour an audience who would be categorised as hardcore (improved graphics, adult games, established audience), also they're taking on an established market leader without much innovation, at a higher price. I'm pretty sure there is a marketing triangle tool for competition analysis that shows that you need to have unique selling point of some sort, though the name escapes me.
Microsoft have been playing catch up in a general sense over most of their businesses for the last few years, though I appreciate and believe strongly in competition it does seem to me microsoft generally seem inflexible when having to take on competitors.
Of course I may end up wrong in the long run, but the uncertainty makes this all exciting. Looking forward to seeing the marketing mix.
I'm not very excited about kinect for gaming. But what gets me wet is the idea of kinect technology as a gesture UI for PCs. Combine with non-suck voice recognition and it really is the interface all of those sci fi movies have been promising for so long.
Personally, I don't really care for the terms either. I would much rather just be a "gamer" and not a "core/hardcore" gamer. But with the new influx of "people who play games," the terms have to be used. Thank you Wii. I know it was really negative, but things I've seen in recent days regarding the "poeple who play games" have really urked at me, and this article just kind of put me in rant-mode, which I rarely do.Powerman88 said:First off, very interesting article again. I, as a "core" gamer (I hate that term), have no real interest in Kinet and am more excited about Civilization 5 which will have way too much sophistication to be controlled by waving your arms about.
THIS is why everyone hates "core" gamers. Man, where to start on this.CORRODED SIN said:
Most casual players aren't playing MW2. The ones who are have decided, usually, that they want want to tr a core gaming experience, but are usually scared away by "core gamers" themselves who won't consider there are a lot of people who haven't grown up with fps and find their lack of skill unacceptable; thus alienating a new audience from enjoying a game.
If someone hasn't been playing videogames since 1986 (like me. fuck off) it doesn't mean they are relegated to farmville. Believe it or not the more people who play core games, the more fantastic core games get made. Videogames are a business, and the more money they make the more money get put into them. You don't need an economics degree to figure that out.
Okay, xbox live doesn't need more douchey kids. You got me there
How can you say Sony, a multi billion dollar international corporation hasn't sold out? I mean really?
These attitudes are the biggest problem with "core" gaming. Games, as the name would suggest, are fun and you can't be mad a people who want to try new things just because we've liked them longer. Its a horrible attitude and should not be socially acceptable.
I would actually prefer if people hated core gamers. They would all leave our games alone. And actually if you look at other media, something being more popular, getting more money invested in it, does not have a great track record for quality. This is what worries me. EG: CoD is popular beyond what we "core" gamers know, and Activision is throwing all kinds of money at it, and I think the quality is going downhill, and it's losing it's original fanbase.
I have no idea what I was trying to say with the Sony comment.
I thought it was a good article. Thank you for writing it. I still believe that the waggle direction and high pricing, is a bit foolish. As @RebellionXXI said very clearly. "CASUAL GAMERS ARE NOT GOING TO SPEND OVER $450 ON A VIDEO GAME SYSTEM WHEN THEY CAN HAVE FARMVILLE FOR FREE!"
And he's right. This simple fact seems obvious to me, I don't really understand why Microsoft doesn't see this too?
And he's right. This simple fact seems obvious to me, I don't really understand why Microsoft doesn't see this too?
No. Why? Because I can not think of one person who apon finishing a session of Wii-golf says "Well that was a load of fun, but know what would be even better? Blasting some aliens to pieces."DrDarkStryfe said:
There is a reason this market of soccer moms and Grandmas wasn't tapped before; they don't find "hardcore" games entertaining.
Well considering sports games are at best a subtle fuck you to gamers, I don't think that will carry KinectGiest4life said:
Well considering the RTS is about as far away from "casual" as one can get while gaming, I'm gonna say it womt happenBlobpie said:
And the minority if this keeps up.Fuhjem said:
I agree that people shouldn't be douche bags, but I can see where this rant is coming from. With all this emphasis on casual gamers, I can't help but feel that I got locked out of my own home. I mean really, what is coming out this fall for 'serious' gamers? Gears of War 3. Halo Reach. The rest is this dumb gimickey stuff like Kinect Animals.Powerman88 said:First off, very interesting article again. I, as a "core" gamer (I hate that term), have no real interest in Kinet and am more excited about Civilization 5 which will have way too much sophistication to be controlled by waving your arms about.
THIS is why everyone hates "core" gamers. Man, where to start on this.CORRODED SIN said:
Most casual players aren't playing MW2. The ones who are have decided, usually, that they want want to tr a core gaming experience, but are usually scared away by "core gamers" themselves who won't consider there are a lot of people who haven't grown up with fps and find their lack of skill unacceptable; thus alienating a new audience from enjoying a game.
If someone hasn't been playing videogames since 1986 (like me. fuck off) it doesn't mean they are relegated to farmville. Believe it or not the more people who play core games, the more fantastic core games get made. Videogames are a business, and the more money they make the more money get put into them. You don't need an economics degree to figure that out.
Okay, xbox live doesn't need more douchey kids. You got me there
How can you say Sony, a multi billion dollar international corporation hasn't sold out? I mean really?
These attitudes are the biggest problem with "core" gaming. Games, as the name would suggest, are fun and you can't be mad a people who want to try new things just because we've liked them longer. Its a horrible attitude and should not be socially acceptable.
Were getting screwed over because everybody looks at Farmville and says "Wow that is a massive untapped market, if I started making stuff for them I would be rich!" So they bend over and kiss the casual gamers asses, While the 'hardcore' get shoved to the wayside, despite sustaining the market for all these years.
The worst part is this "casual" market sees this only as a fad. How many bought Wii when it came out? How many still use theirs on a day to day basis?
/rant
Not at all weird. Because, I think, what you meant to say was, this is an obvious fact for consumers, but not Microsoft's business-oriented marketers who don't play video games and never will.funkzillabot said:
Seriously, I wouldn't be surprised if Microsoft execs are the types who would fire their staff if they found out they played WoW.
By that slightly stinging definition, I guess I'm not longer a gamer.
I don't have the free time to play video games on a daily basis and I only purchase one or two games every few months.
Aside from that, I hope that the Kinect and Move fail so that this "motion sensor" gaming approach would just die off. I don't play on the Wii because its fancy with it's motion sensors. It's just the next generation Nintendo console and I need it to play Super Smash Brothers or Zelda games. (The latter of two unfortunately requires some swishing of the controller)
I don't have the free time to play video games on a daily basis and I only purchase one or two games every few months.
Aside from that, I hope that the Kinect and Move fail so that this "motion sensor" gaming approach would just die off. I don't play on the Wii because its fancy with it's motion sensors. It's just the next generation Nintendo console and I need it to play Super Smash Brothers or Zelda games. (The latter of two unfortunately requires some swishing of the controller)
I really do appreciate the way you feel but the facts don't support this common argument. As one of the PC gamer master race I sometimes feel way more neglected than my console brethren. Then I realize that Starcraft 2 just came out (Activision btw) and that Civilization 5 is coming out in September. Tropico 3 has been announced for a q2-q3 release next year as well.TheGreatCoolEnergy said:
Even we PC strategy nerds have lots of AAA titles coming out and as long as the companies who make them make money they will continue to come out. Casual gamers will come and go. Some will go on to really enjoy gaming. Some won't. We will still be here getting the amazing titles we want and deserve. Also Dragon Age 2 w00t! The Old Republic! Deus Ex! Seriously? Fallout: New Vegas, Fable 3 (I'm psyched, shut up), and so much more! So much for us "core" gamers to be excited about! How about the news for the new Batman: Arkham Asylum followup? I also just downloaded the Scott Pilgrim game on XBLA. Tons of fun and super old school in a good way.
Farmville hasn't affected it yet and I don't see them ruining it for us. Rejoice my "core" friends!
So, I'm a bit confused. It seems that the premise of the article author is that M$ can market to core gamers, OR it can market to moms, kids, etc (casual or non-core gamers), but it cannot do both.
Really?
Because M$ is tapped for cash or something? Because M$ cannot identify different media outlets that could deliver a different marketing message to core gamers versus non-core gamers?
Yeah, not sure I'm buying that either. So, Mr Author, how about explaining why it benefits M$ to cause feelings of alienation in their exisitng customers when I would submit they could both market to core gamers, and to non-core gamers, at the same time using a targetted media/message approach.
Really?
Because M$ is tapped for cash or something? Because M$ cannot identify different media outlets that could deliver a different marketing message to core gamers versus non-core gamers?
Yeah, not sure I'm buying that either. So, Mr Author, how about explaining why it benefits M$ to cause feelings of alienation in their exisitng customers when I would submit they could both market to core gamers, and to non-core gamers, at the same time using a targetted media/message approach.
Rack said:I agree there may be less core titles but to write the system off completely is an exaggeration. I would hazard a guess that they would be spending projected figures, using savings, and profit from software sales as quite rightly you point out it will take time to make profit on Kinect (if it doesn't crash and burn).The_Emperor said:
gears 3? next forza? next mass effect? there will be less but they havent stopped support for core games completely. I do sorta think ps3 will eventually become gamers choice if xbox doesn't step up its game but I still think the 360 is a viable game machine. I'm even looking forward to fable 3. It will die quicker than ps3 though but by that time they will start making the Zcube 720 or something I bet to keep the money train a flowin. Either that or do a Sega. I hope they dont I REEEEEAAALLLY hate those ps3 pads lol. Convex analog pad tips ftw.
I don't think kinect is going to take as much focus as people think or resources. I'm not even sure kinect will take off because if they make sucky games for it noone will want one. We won't see any good games for it until the 2nd or 3rd wave and by then it might be too late...
It's all too close to call atm
With respect, Mr Dolphin, I would be leery about telling a professional marketer his business, unless you are one as well.craigdolphin said:
And for all I know, you are.
However - as much as his column seems to anger people I personally find this column interesting, and I hear a great similarity between what he is saying and for example, what "MovieBob" says about the movie industry, what some of my musician friends complain about, and what "gamers" have always said, to be honest.
Did you perhaps read Shamus's Xcom piece? Why are they using that IP, to get the 14 people who remember it?
If that fails to illustrate, I can clearly remember when if anyone would have said "Core Gamer" that meant the people that still owned "Blackmoor" and the original "Deities and Demigods" complaining that the bought-out TSR was screwing them by marketing their beloved game to the infantile "comic book" demographic - even made a cartoon and a new, less dark, more kid-friendly world called "forgotten realms"... and dragonlance.
Watering it down, they said. And sure, but the truth was, that market was FAR LARGER. No one CARED that the original "core" demographic was left behind, it was business.
The "core" audience for the computer games such as Xcom or "the gold box series" barely count as a NICHE to modern game sales. Has the audience for such games increased by? what? 100 fold?
Hell no. Games sell more because they made them ACCESSIBLE to a larger audience.
Almost no music I really like has ever been played on the radio, but the watered-down bands they influenced are.
Almost every movie i really like loses money...
TV shows I like have to be on obscure networks, and could be out-ratings-ed
by any cheesy reality show.Big companies don't make music, games, movies, or books - or anything else unless there is an audience,
and the way i see it, the current "core" gamers, who don't recall when things were watered down to include THEIR demographic, are now seeing what it is like when games, etc are no longer made for THEIR demographic.
There's a larger, more important market. BE prepared to become even more niche.
And to respond to Mr Penguin - in my (admittedly limited )experience, it is actually pretty difficult, generally, to market something - any product - to both a "mainstream" market and a niche or "hardcore" audience simultaneously.
Surely we have all seen idiocracy?