Kinect Reportedly Costs "Almost As Much" as Xbox One

[circularlogic88]

The Kinect failed miserably.

Like....really miserably.

We all saw and heard how "awesome" the thing was until we had to try to use it in an actual game. Then you needed to have at least 6 feet of space. Oh, also, there shouldn't be a lot of stuff behind you because it confuses the sensor. Oh, you also need to make sure your area is lit in a way that the Kinect deems acceptable or it's going to confuse the sensor. Oh, also the microphone will sometimes hear the game and confuses itself...

Frankly, you made all these promises once before. Maybe you're right and you've fixed all the problems that the sensor causes but I'm not exactly going to hold my breath...

you should probably look at some articles with video links that show the press taking it for a spin themselves and being impressed with the new sensor.

Because media outlets could never be bought off by Microsoft to endorse their products. That could never happen...

or you could look at the footage and see that the sensor DOES work and MAYBE not be so cynical?

I'd rather be cynical and wrong than optimistic and disappointed...and also wrong.

 

[circularlogic88]

The Kinect failed miserably.

Like....really miserably.

We all saw and heard how "awesome" the thing was until we had to try to use it in an actual game. Then you needed to have at least 6 feet of space. Oh, also, there shouldn't be a lot of stuff behind you because it confuses the sensor. Oh, you also need to make sure your area is lit in a way that the Kinect deems acceptable or it's going to confuse the sensor. Oh, also the microphone will sometimes hear the game and confuses itself...

Frankly, you made all these promises once before. Maybe you're right and you've fixed all the problems that the sensor causes but I'm not exactly going to hold my breath...

Good thing this Kinect is made not to fail b/c its several times as precise and is bundled into every console so devs know the userbase for it is large enough to develop for it. Durr

Oh? You have one now, do you?

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

Even though we should take a Reddit ask me anything with a grain of salt, it would make sense if the kinect was that much. Decent cameras can easily cost around $200-$250. Reguardless of how many mega pixels the camera is, the sensors in it would be expensive especially if they really can see in the dark. It's kinda funny, they could have had an advantage releasing the console $300 and they could have developed the kinect sensor to be compatible with the xb1 and other devices like tv's, and uh... There's something else that Microsoft owns but what was it... Oh yeah, fucking Windows

 

[LT Cannibal 68]

Whilst this is a smart strategy they have to also realize that they are basically including a piece of shitty hardware with a gaming system for no reason. Nobody WANTS a Kinect because it is IMPOSSIBLE to control a game fluently based on upper body position and movements.

Ask yourself when did you last play a good Kinect game that was not a bunch of minigames or a dancing game. We saw what happens when you attempt to push the Kinect to it's limits. You get Steel Battalion, an utter atrocity that has possibly buried the franchise for a second time.

It is a pipe dream Microsoft, wake the fuck up! The Kinect is to inaccurate to register detailed movements. It is to expensive to offer at a reasonable price. No games can be played with it that require any kind of movement. Even Steel Battalion had to rely on a controller for that.

Basically you tried to do what Nintendo did, only you went for the Sony PS2 route with a motion detection camera rather than a cheap gyroscope stick.

I know i'm gonna get flamed and get called a fanboy for this but fuck it.
have you even SEEN the video demonstrations done by the press?
every reporter that has tried it loved it!
how about you Look up some info before you make baseless assumptions on a product you haven't even tried or seen in action?
Also bashing something based on the hardware that came before it is downright stupid in my opinion.
and as per your first point a LOT of people do want kinect, they're children and casual players and parents (including myself, my kids love playing with kinect and my wife likes that nike trainer game.) that want to play with they're kids, you know the other 2/3ds of the fanbase?
"hardcore gamers" need to stop being so selfish and self centered and accept that we're a small part of a larger ecosystem of consumers.

Question?

Are those casual consumers willing to shell out $500 dollars plus for it?

Its one thing for reporters and kids to like a product, its getting them to throw down a rather hefty sum to buy it.

short answer yes because going by how the original one sold like gangbusters for a $150 for the sensor alone then this time around microsoft just has to show off the new capabilities on magazines and late night tv and they'll flock to it just like the first one. mass consumers are like magpies you see, if something is new and popular they'll swoop in to buy it to be "hip" and such, just think about the YEARLY installments of the iphone and how it always sells out. That alone proves what I mean.

 

[lacktheknack]

I know i'm gonna get flamed and get called a fanboy for this but fuck it.
have you even SEEN the video demonstrations done by the press?
every reporter that has tried it loved it!
how about you Look up some info before you make baseless assumptions on a product you haven't even tried or seen in action?
Also bashing something based on the hardware that came before it is downright stupid in my opinion.
and as per your first point a LOT of people do want kinect, they're children and casual players and parents (including myself, my kids love playing with kinect and my wife likes that nike trainer game.) that want to play with they're kids, you know the other 2/3ds of the fanbase?
"hardcore gamers" need to stop being so selfish and self centered and accept that we're a small part of a larger ecosystem of consumers.

Everyone adored the Wii controller on their first use as well. Those that forget history...

It would be prudent to not embrace the new gizmo wholeheartedly, is all, especially since I can't really think of any games that it would improve beyond dance games.

Just because I adored and was stunned by the Shazam app when I first used it doesn't mean I'll actually have any use of it.

OT: I believe this is what is known as "putting all your eggs into one basket".

 

[LT Cannibal 68]

The Kinect failed miserably.

Like....really miserably.

We all saw and heard how "awesome" the thing was until we had to try to use it in an actual game. Then you needed to have at least 6 feet of space. Oh, also, there shouldn't be a lot of stuff behind you because it confuses the sensor. Oh, you also need to make sure your area is lit in a way that the Kinect deems acceptable or it's going to confuse the sensor. Oh, also the microphone will sometimes hear the game and confuses itself...

Frankly, you made all these promises once before. Maybe you're right and you've fixed all the problems that the sensor causes but I'm not exactly going to hold my breath...

you should probably look at some articles with video links that show the press taking it for a spin themselves and being impressed with the new sensor.

Because media outlets could never be bought off by Microsoft to endorse their products. That could never happen...

or you could look at the footage and see that the sensor DOES work and MAYBE not be so cynical?

I'd rather be cynical and wrong than optimistic and disappointed...and also wrong.

I'm not being "optimistic" as you say i'm just going off footage of the sensor in action that i've SEEN, Also all this hoopla will end soon because the xbox 1 and kinect will be playable at comic con.

 

[lacktheknack]

short answer yes because going by how the original one sold like gangbusters for a $150 for the sensor alone then this time around microsoft just has to show off the new capabilities on magazines and late night tv and they'll flock to it just like the first one. mass consumers are like magpies you see, if something is new and popular they'll swoop in to buy it to be "hip" and such, just think about the YEARLY installments of the iphone and how it always sells out. That alone proves what I mean.

Yeah, but the flipside to that is that magpies go for the shiniest things.

Apple phones sell insanely well mostly because of a cult of personality that Steve Jobs carved out. Now that he's dead, Android is selling better than iPhone.

Windows has had a lot of bad luck with the "attracting customers" part of the equation recently. They proved they COULD do it (see: Windows) and with the right setup, they still can (Xbox 360 came out first by a long shot and had a good startup library), but they haven't had such luck with Zune (dead in the water) and Windows Phones (they beat Nokia... and that's about it).

Also, you underestimate the amount of problems being burned can cause, and the first Kinect burned a lot of people.

 

[LT Cannibal 68]

I know i'm gonna get flamed and get called a fanboy for this but fuck it.
have you even SEEN the video demonstrations done by the press?
every reporter that has tried it loved it!
how about you Look up some info before you make baseless assumptions on a product you haven't even tried or seen in action?
Also bashing something based on the hardware that came before it is downright stupid in my opinion.
and as per your first point a LOT of people do want kinect, they're children and casual players and parents (including myself, my kids love playing with kinect and my wife likes that nike trainer game.) that want to play with they're kids, you know the other 2/3ds of the fanbase?
"hardcore gamers" need to stop being so selfish and self centered and accept that we're a small part of a larger ecosystem of consumers.

Everyone adored the Wii controller on their first use as well. Those that forget history...

It would be prudent to not embrace the new gizmo wholeheartedly, is all, especially since I can't really think of any games that it would improve beyond dance games.

Just because I adored and was stunned by the Shazam app when I first used it doesn't mean I'll actually have any use of it.

OT: I believe this is what is known as "putting all your eggs into one basket".

I'm not embracing the device wholeheartedly all i'm trying to say is that it's a little stupid to bash an unreleased piece of tech simply because the one that came first was very VERY finicky.

and as for the games not improving i think that project spark looks very good it's probably gonna be MS's answer to little big planet, and the generation hasn't even STARTED yet and people are already condemning it without trying it. That's what irks me

 

[LT Cannibal 68]

short answer yes because going by how the original one sold like gangbusters for a $150 for the sensor alone then this time around microsoft just has to show off the new capabilities on magazines and late night tv and they'll flock to it just like the first one. mass consumers are like magpies you see, if something is new and popular they'll swoop in to buy it to be "hip" and such, just think about the YEARLY installments of the iphone and how it always sells out. That alone proves what I mean.

Yeah, but the flipside to that is that magpies go for the shiniest things.

Apple phones sell insanely well mostly because of a cult of personality that Steve Jobs carved out. Now that he's dead, Android is selling better than iPhone.

Windows has had a lot of bad luck with the "attracting customers" part of the equation recently. They proved they COULD do it (see: Windows) and with the right setup, they still can (Xbox 360 came out first by a long shot and had a good startup library), but they haven't had such luck with Zune (dead in the water) and Windows Phones (they beat Nokia... and that's about it).

Also, you underestimate the amount of problems being burned can cause, and the first Kinect burned a lot of people.

The moment that the new capabilities are shown it will be the runaway success that the first was i guarantee it. as to those who claim to have been burnt(mainly hardcore gamers which probably won't buy it to begin with) may change their tunes when they see it in action.

as for the zune being doa it was trying to breach a market that was saturated to begin with, with kinect they're truly going to be the only ones doing something like that on that scale, therefore there will be no competition.

 

[1337mokro]

Whilst this is a smart strategy they have to also realize that they are basically including a piece of shitty hardware with a gaming system for no reason. Nobody WANTS a Kinect because it is IMPOSSIBLE to control a game fluently based on upper body position and movements.

Ask yourself when did you last play a good Kinect game that was not a bunch of minigames or a dancing game. We saw what happens when you attempt to push the Kinect to it's limits. You get Steel Battalion, an utter atrocity that has possibly buried the franchise for a second time.

It is a pipe dream Microsoft, wake the fuck up! The Kinect is to inaccurate to register detailed movements. It is to expensive to offer at a reasonable price. No games can be played with it that require any kind of movement. Even Steel Battalion had to rely on a controller for that.

Basically you tried to do what Nintendo did, only you went for the Sony PS2 route with a motion detection camera rather than a cheap gyroscope stick.

I know i'm gonna get flamed and get called a fanboy for this but fuck it.
have you even SEEN the video demonstrations done by the press?
every reporter that has tried it loved it!
how about you Look up some info before you make baseless assumptions on a product you haven't even tried or seen in action?
Also bashing something based on the hardware that came before it is downright stupid in my opinion.
and as per your first point a LOT of people do want kinect, they're children and casual players and parents (including myself, my kids love playing with kinect and my wife likes that nike trainer game.) that want to play with they're kids, you know the other 2/3ds of the fanbase?
"hardcore gamers" need to stop being so selfish and self centered and accept that we're a small part of a larger ecosystem of consumers.

I'm sorry since when do I have to consider the desires of other demographics? Especially children who already have a Wii, with more games for it that they can flail around with. I don't usually walk into a lingerie store and buy a set of lingerie along with my regular monthly pair of new boxershorts. Just because women seem to like the lingerie I don't have to buy it every time I purchase boxers. Just because Microsoft pretends like it's an integral component doesn't change that it functions perfectly without it (not to mention about 90% of the games won't even bother with using it).

As such I don't desire to have the Kinect should I ever consider to buy an Xbone. It's the third wheel, the flimsy attachment, the vestigial organ, the compulsory bra purchase for every boxershort, it is the pointless addition to what should be a gaming console. They long since gave up on it actually being that and instead decided to fight a losing battle as a multimedia device. They shoot themselves in the foot by adding 150$ on top of the console price to at least partially recoup the added Kinects. A colossal mistake when your competitor releases a cheaper console than you. As we saw in the last pointless console war.

"The gaming press was absolutely raving about the new Kinect!" Yeah they were doing the same thing over the first Kinect, then the regular version got released and they also hyped that one up to the max and it was a collosal dissapointment. You're basically saying "The GaImeJurNAlisTs" liked it is like telling me Nintendo power (RIP) wrote a positive review about the WiiU. Yeah I am totally shocked that they liked it.

Why would I resort to calling you a fanboy when I can pick your arguments apart in so many different ways?

 

[PoolCleaningRobot]

"hardcore gamers" need to stop being so selfish and self centered and accept that we're a small part of a larger ecosystem of consumers.

I actually agree with you and I think the senor will be better and complaining that it won't be is illogical as of right now. But I don't want one. You keep assuming everyone will want if it works. I have a small room with a small tv and even if it still worked it would be hard to use and I'd rather just pick up a controller. And I don't want motion games. I want button games. To each their own. Even if I had a set up for the kinect to work great for menus why why why why would I pay $200 for something I could do with a tv remote or a controller? How am I selfish for not wanting such a device?

 

[RicoADF]

I know i'm gonna get flamed and get called a fanboy for this but fuck it.
have you even SEEN the video demonstrations done by the press?
every reporter that has tried it loved it!
how about you Look up some info before you make baseless assumptions on a product you haven't even tried or seen in action?
Also bashing something based on the hardware that came before it is downright stupid in my opinion.
and as per your first point a LOT of people do want kinect, they're children and casual players and parents (including myself, my kids love playing with kinect and my wife likes that nike trainer game.) that want to play with they're kids, you know the other 2/3ds of the fanbase?
"hardcore gamers" need to stop being so selfish and self centered and accept that we're a small part of a larger ecosystem of consumers.

Everyone adored the Wii controller on their first use as well. Those that forget history...

It would be prudent to not embrace the new gizmo wholeheartedly, is all, especially since I can't really think of any games that it would improve beyond dance games.

Just because I adored and was stunned by the Shazam app when I first used it doesn't mean I'll actually have any use of it.

OT: I believe this is what is known as "putting all your eggs into one basket".

I'm not embracing the device wholeheartedly all i'm trying to say is that it's a little stupid to bash an unreleased piece of tech simply because the one that came first was very VERY finicky.

and as for the games not improving i think that project spark looks very good it's probably gonna be MS's answer to little big planet, and the generation hasn't even STARTED yet and people are already condemning it without trying it. That's what irks me

I think your missing that most people don't care about the potential, its a mixture of being burnt by the first one, privacy issues that have arisen regarding the xbone and its kinnect and the utter disgusting way MS views and treats their customers. It doesn't matter if it works as advertised, MS has killed it due to their priority of advertisers and DRM/publishers over their customers.

 

[LT Cannibal 68]

Whilst this is a smart strategy they have to also realize that they are basically including a piece of shitty hardware with a gaming system for no reason. Nobody WANTS a Kinect because it is IMPOSSIBLE to control a game fluently based on upper body position and movements.

Ask yourself when did you last play a good Kinect game that was not a bunch of minigames or a dancing game. We saw what happens when you attempt to push the Kinect to it's limits. You get Steel Battalion, an utter atrocity that has possibly buried the franchise for a second time.

It is a pipe dream Microsoft, wake the fuck up! The Kinect is to inaccurate to register detailed movements. It is to expensive to offer at a reasonable price. No games can be played with it that require any kind of movement. Even Steel Battalion had to rely on a controller for that.

Basically you tried to do what Nintendo did, only you went for the Sony PS2 route with a motion detection camera rather than a cheap gyroscope stick.

I know i'm gonna get flamed and get called a fanboy for this but fuck it.
have you even SEEN the video demonstrations done by the press?
every reporter that has tried it loved it!
how about you Look up some info before you make baseless assumptions on a product you haven't even tried or seen in action?
Also bashing something based on the hardware that came before it is downright stupid in my opinion.
and as per your first point a LOT of people do want kinect, they're children and casual players and parents (including myself, my kids love playing with kinect and my wife likes that nike trainer game.) that want to play with they're kids, you know the other 2/3ds of the fanbase?
"hardcore gamers" need to stop being so selfish and self centered and accept that we're a small part of a larger ecosystem of consumers.

I'm sorry since when do I have to consider the desires of other demographics? Especially children who already have a Wii, with more games for it that they can flail around with. I don't usually walk into a lingerie store and buy a set of lingerie along with my regular boxers because women seem to like the stuff.

As such I don't desire to have the Kinect should I ever consider to buy an Xbone. It's the third wheel, the flimsy attachment, the vestigial organ to what should be a gaming console. They long since gave up on it actually being that and instead decided to fight a losing battle as a multimedia device. They shoot themselves in the foot by adding 150$ on top of the console price to at least partially recoup the added Kinects. A colossal mistake when your competitor releases a cheaper console than you. As we saw in the last pointless console war.

"The gaming press was absolutely raving about the new Kinect!" Yeah they were doing the same thing over the first Kinect, then the regular version got released and they also hyped that one up to the max and it was a collosal dissapointment. You basically saying "The GaImeJurNAlisTs" liked it is like telling me Nintendo power (RIP) wrote a positive review about the WiiU. Yeah I am totally shocked that they liked it.

Why would I resort to calling you a fanboy when I can pick your arguments apart in so many different ways?

i never told you to consider other demographics, all I said is that "hardcore gamers" arent the only demographic and pretending you are and speaking for the entire community by saying "NOBODY WANTS IT" is a little immature. and as for the press raving about the first kinect you're right they were in several write ups, what i'm saying is that i've SEEN it being used and working as advertised.

Going by the losing battle argument trying to be a multi media device is a little dumb it's like saying "oh this truck has tv's in the headrests so it's trying to be a tv and not a truck." It's called having other features because as i've said "hardcore gamers" or gamers in general aren't the only demographic in existence. Them trying to expand their userbase by bringing new things to the table can only be good for the gaming industry, reviling a product based on new features totally baffles me considering that the competition literally just upped the graphics and nothing else and are called the white knights of the industry for it, is vexing to me.

on another note ps3 launched to the same price point i believe and that was a huge success to this day so i don't see how it's shooting themselves in the foot seeing as how last gen was just how this one is going to be.

and as for picking my post apart in different ways (which i really don't see) coming back with wet paper tissue thin responses doesn't really do it.

P.S. I applaud you for not resorting to calling me a fanboy, a spirited debate is very refreshing.

 

[faefrost]

The Kinect failed miserably.

Like....really miserably.

We all saw and heard how "awesome" the thing was until we had to try to use it in an actual game. Then you needed to have at least 6 feet of space. Oh, also, there shouldn't be a lot of stuff behind you because it confuses the sensor. Oh, you also need to make sure your area is lit in a way that the Kinect deems acceptable or it's going to confuse the sensor. Oh, also the microphone will sometimes hear the game and confuses itself...

Frankly, you made all these promises once before. Maybe you're right and you've fixed all the problems that the sensor causes but I'm not exactly going to hold my breath...

Good thing this Kinect is made not to fail b/c its several times as precise and is bundled into every console so devs know the userbase for it is large enough to develop for it. Durr

Here's the problem with that user base. Look at what he said.
"The goal with having a Kinect ship with every Xbox is to guarantee to game developers if they implement Kinect features into their games, everyone who has an Xbox will be able to experience it."

That statement ONLY makes sense if all or the majority of your gaming and development is coming from in house or is strictly dedicated to your console. Otherwise, if you take the Kinect out of the equation, development for the PC, the PS4 and the XBox180 is essentially the same. An intern can port games between the three in an afternoon. No third party dev without a MASSIVE exclusivity contract, will do anything with Kinect beyond some very minor compulsory menu crap. "It's OK Mickysoft, see where Kinect Compatible! The player can use it to change Hats!" Activision, EA and Ubisoft aren't going to bother messing much with the thing. So MS ends up right back where they are now. A handful of exclusive titles will use it. Otherwise it will be the worlds most annoying Netflix Remote.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

I want to believe that, despite all the derision, the concept behind motion and voice control could well take off. But Microsoft have already been beaten to the punch. Samsung are already selling smart TVs that have motion sensors and voice control. Expensive as hell, sure, but Microsoft are banking on non-gamers buying this thing as a very expensive remote to use with an older TV. And then you hear that the sensor costs as much as the Xbone itself, and it all starts to look a bit grim for them.

 

[RJ 17]

Failed Xbox Accessory is Failed.

Let's see list some game genres and see if the Kinect would actually IMPROVE the gameplay:

Shooter: Nope, turning would be way too sluggish and complicated, also how would it know when you're shooting? Cooking a grenade? Throwing a grenade? Switching weapons?

RPG: Nope. It'd be pointless in turn-based fighting since you're really just sitting there clicking menu options. And in real-time combat your arms would get tired from swinging your sword and shield around and such.

Fighting: Well considering there's absolutely no way any of us could actually pull off the fighting moves performed in fighting games, that's an absolute bust.

Sports (i.e. football, basketball, etc...not the lame sport minigames that are specifically designed for the Kinect like bowling, archery, and pong): Not really, I doubt it'd be able to tell how hard you're throwing/kicking/hitting the ball and the aim would likely be pretty terrible.

Survival Horror: Pretty much all of these are 3rd person and to my knowledge the Kinect would only be good in a first-person view.

So really, beyond the lame minigames specifically designed to utilize the Kinect, it really doesn't seem like the Kinect has much going for it from a gaming standpoint. "But...but what about the voice commands!" Yeah, no one gives two shits and a fuck about the voice commands. We already do enough yelling at our TVs, it's called rage-quitting.

MS, the bottom line is this: we're gamers. We play videogames. We want a console that allows us to play videogames. That's all you have to give us to make us happy, we're pretty simple folk. Tacking on a bunch of bells and whistles that are completely unnecessary and, for the most part (as I'm certain there are people out there actually excited for the Kinect, just to be fair) un-asked for. The biggest problem remains that all the extra crap you're slapping onto this is stuff that most people already have devices for, so even if you're trying to advertise it to non-gamers there's really no reason to buy the damn thing.

I just fail to see the logic or benefit for taking the failed product that is the Kinect and doubling-down on it, supposedly investing as much money into it as the console it comes attached to, and saying "God damnit people, you WILL enjoy this whether you like it or not!!.......wait a sec...."

It's kinda sad, really, that the final major obstacle preventing people from wanting the XBone is apparently completely woven into the system itself and therefor cannot be pried away from it. If they dropped the Kinect as being mandatory I'd be more than happy to pick up an XBone, but since that's evidently impossible due to how the console is designed, then I guess there's no chance of me getting one...at least not until they finally say "fuck it" and release a Kinect-less version of the console three months after the system's release because the PS4 is still violating them prison-style in the realm of sales.

 

[LT Cannibal 68]

The Kinect failed miserably.

Like....really miserably.

We all saw and heard how "awesome" the thing was until we had to try to use it in an actual game. Then you needed to have at least 6 feet of space. Oh, also, there shouldn't be a lot of stuff behind you because it confuses the sensor. Oh, you also need to make sure your area is lit in a way that the Kinect deems acceptable or it's going to confuse the sensor. Oh, also the microphone will sometimes hear the game and confuses itself...

Frankly, you made all these promises once before. Maybe you're right and you've fixed all the problems that the sensor causes but I'm not exactly going to hold my breath...

Good thing this Kinect is made not to fail b/c its several times as precise and is bundled into every console so devs know the userbase for it is large enough to develop for it. Durr

Here's the problem with that user base. Look at what he said.
"The goal with having a Kinect ship with every Xbox is to guarantee to game developers if they implement Kinect features into their games, everyone who has an Xbox will be able to experience it."

That statement ONLY makes sense if all or the majority of your gaming and development is coming from in house or is strictly dedicated to your console. Otherwise, if you take the Kinect out of the equation, development for the PC, the PS4 and the XBox180 is essentially the same. An intern can port games between the three in an afternoon. No third party dev without a MASSIVE exclusivity contract, will do anything with Kinect beyond some very minor compulsory menu crap. "It's OK Mickysoft, see where Kinect Compatible! The player can use it to change Hats!" Activision, EA and Ubisoft aren't going to bother messing much with the thing. So MS ends up right back where they are now. A handful of exclusive titles will use it. Otherwise it will be the worlds most annoying Netflix Remote.

that would be a worst case scenario because going by this gen several titles like Ghost recon:future soldier and muthafucking SKYRIM used kinect i see that support only growing this gen because the install base for the sensor is already there.

 

[RJ 17]

arbitrary .gif for the kinect.

Seriously...I think the mom is having a seizure...why isn't someone calling 911 in that house? o.o

Edit: Also, I love the kid in the red. He turns around like "No, seriously, what the fuck are we doing?"