Kratos

Snowden's Secret

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Interesting the way you compared him to Batman. And of course you are right.
I haven't played any of the God of War series myself, but having just looked up the plot for all three games just now, it definitely seems that Kratos has hit a brick wall in terms of character development- he's more of a cliche now he has no real purpose (aside from the whole killing thing).
 

HollywoodH17

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Torque669 said:
HollywoodH17 said:
I really do like Extra Punctuation. It helps flesh out Yahtzee's points of view, for one, and adds some suspense for the next day's ZP.

I'm with furburt here: the Gods are big ol' d-bags. kratos just wants revenge on them and will stop at nothing - including killing women, innocents, etc - to get there. Granted, this is selfish, but the gods royally screwed him over, and most people would be miffed if they did to them what they did to Kratos.
Its a bloody good thing they screwed him over because he was being stupid. If you see at the start of God of War 2 because Kratos was a former Spartan he was helping them win every single battle they were in thus making them an unstoppable force which would take over the world given time and leave only Spartans, Zeus didnt want this to happen and so killed Kratos to stop him being a dick to everyone but his own country. So in retrospective Kratos is a selfish dick and deserved to be drained off all his power in my opinion.

This does not however stop me from enjoying his adventure to destroy all of Mount Olympus like the manical son of a ***** he is.
I have to slash-disagree. If you know that there's a dude somewhere in the bar with a pistol and a bad temper, don't you go out of your way to be nice to everyone in the bar that night? Or do you anger everyone to find out who has the pistol? I submit the former is more reasonable. Zeus knew what he was getting into when he shook up that hornets' nest.
 

Mana Fiend

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HollywoodH17 said:
I'm with furburt here: the Gods are big ol' d-bags. kratos just wants revenge on them and will stop at nothing - including killing women, innocents, etc - to get there. Granted, this is selfish, but the gods royally screwed him over, and most people would be miffed if they did to them what they did to Kratos.
Not played GoW (don't own a PS3, and never truely entered my radar), but I'd just like to point out that the gods always were total douches. Dionysus was probably the best, but that was because he was pretty much drunk all the time. If you ever look at Hera and Zeus, then you'll notice that Zeus goes around and sleeps with anything that moves (though not always a requirement) and Hera punishes them for Zeus' actions. Heracles went through all kinds of rubish because of just this.

There's a line in the Iliad which has Zeus saying that the mortals blame the gods for all the wrongs that happen to them, which just goes to show that, in Greek times, they didn't seem to get on too well. Sure, some were more protective than others (Athene was halfway-decent, and Aphrodite was rubbish at fighting but got blamed for all the troubles romance and love caused), but most of the time they just seemed to never get on with mortals, and vise-versa.

Besides, according to myth, without the titan Prometheus, we would never have gotten fire, and Zeus punished him for giving us it. /Greek lesson-slash-opinion.

OT: Interesting article. Always nice to see opinions on characters (something I feel a game really needs to explore to be truely great).
 

HollywoodH17

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Oh, and this may be better fodder for a new thread, but I feel it has a basic connection to the subject matter at hand.

Isn't God of War, as a trilogy, supposed to explain the connection between the end of Greek mythology, and the beginning of Western religion? When Kratos kills literally everyone, and then releases hope to the people, isn't he slaying the Greek idea of polytheism and allowing people to form their own religious system, outside of the reach of the now-dead asshole Gods?

I've always gotten that gist since the first game, when viewing the tapestries in the Temple of Pandora.
 

Cherry Cola

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HollywoodH17 said:
Oh, and this may be better fodder for a new thread, but I feel it has a basic connection to the subject matter at hand.

Isn't God of War, as a trilogy, supposed to explain the connection between the end of Greek mythology, and the beginning of Western religion? When Kratos kills literally everyone, and then releases hope to the people, isn't he slaying the Greek idea of polytheism and allowing people to form their own religious system, outside of the reach of the now-dead asshole Gods?

I've always gotten that gist since the first game, when viewing the tapestries in the Temple of Pandora.
There is a theory about that.

Namely that Kratos becomes ruler of the earth.

Then Jesus kicks his ass.

World saved.
 

Galad

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I watched the GoW 3 video walkthrough series on youtube, just so I can see how the story will develop, or rather, if it will take any direction other than the knee-jerk start, and I was thoroughly disappointed. I wasn't familiar with the first or second game in this series prior to the third coming out and the escapist thus mentioning its predecessors, so here's the deal. Those sitcoms Yahtzee mentions have been successful because they're a mockery of existing shows. Because the audience doesn't take the characters seriously. Thus the only way I could enjoy a story like GoW 3's is to just eat popcorn and watch all the blood and guts getting spilled left and right mindlessly and the beautifully rendered scenery. I'm not saying that's beneath me, or that I've never done it, what I'm saying is, not taking Kratos seriously just doesn't work, hence why GoW3 doesn't work for me.

HollywoodH17 said:
Oh, and this may be better fodder for a new thread, but I feel it has a basic connection to the subject matter at hand.

Isn't God of War, as a trilogy, supposed to explain the connection between the end of Greek mythology, and the beginning of Western religion? When Kratos kills literally everyone, and then releases hope to the people, isn't he slaying the Greek idea of polytheism and allowing people to form their own religious system, outside of the reach of the now-dead asshole Gods?

I've always gotten that gist since the first game, when viewing the tapestries in the Temple of Pandora.
You're reading way too much into it. You were just supposed to ogle at the scenery and the gore.
 

duchaked

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raaa my family's dead now you dieee
raaaaaa i'm still angry about that graaahhh
aaaaaarrrgh i'm still so...angry...so now everyone must diiie

hey i think we can all relate to that =} it's straight from the core human instinct
 

katsabas

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Cannot say I am not with Yahtzee on this one. Kratos has truly become single minded but that is not a bad thing. And true, not every game character has to be related to an every day average joe but there are sometimes when I WANT to be a dick. Kain from the Legacy Of Kain series completely buttfucked his universe from the first game and he wasn't someone you relate to.

If you ask me, the Gods brought this to themselves. They convinced Kratos to kill Ares and then they go 'Thank you but the nightmares won't go away'. They told him 'go get this and that and this

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_cj4KgDOAdOE/Suud5Bf-8MI/AAAAAAAAAAM/u9_RVXsMyIY/s400/200px-Pandora%27s_Box.jpg

and then it blew in their face, if you know what I am talking about. So, the Gods are idiots twice.
 

Rayansaki

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LordCuthberton said:
No comments reply? Sadface.

Never played the God Of War series, that's the problem with console exclusives. So most PlayStation fans have probably never played the Gears Of War series.
Gears of War isn't quite unique, ME or Halo would be a better example to make your point :p. If you want a grey and brown macho chest high wall shooter, there's plenty of games to get your fix like Army of Two or Killzone.
If on the other hand, you want a Brutal Hack&Slasher, all you can find is pussified versions of it.
 

The_ModeRazor

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I think the reason Kratos kills everything that is alive (or undead at least) is that he is able to do so, without any kind of punishment.
Tempted to link Penny Arcade, but I think you know what I mean.
(am looking at you, internets)
 

Aptspire

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Well, that's one reason I like Kratos: because he keeps killing for the fun of it :p
 

theownerer

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Wow this is easily my favorite article of you, it was interesting, funny and so true.

Yahtzee Croshaw said:
I want to see more game stories where the plot is driven by the actions of the main character, rooted in conscious decision for complicated personal reasons. Rather than just having them stumble upon adventure, or get sucked up into space on their way home from the chip shop.
Also I love and completely agree with what you said here. In most games its always: THE WORLD IS IN TROUBLE AND IT NEEDS YOUR HELP! or some bullshit like that in which case the only person who can help is the hero, for some reason, and he willingly, or not, gets dragged into it because thats what he needs to do.

Then you look at God of War and if you remove Kratos nothing would of happened. History would of run its course normaly. Even if he was there, he could of decided not to become a slave to Ares therefore averting everything that happened. The point is that, like you said, the hero drives the story and id also want more games to be like this.
 

Therumancer

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I tend to think of Kratos more in the line of "Dark Heroes" in general.

When characters like "The Punisher" started to become popular again after the fall of the Comics Code Authority, the stories involving such characters were quite interesting and involve some good analysis of the heroic "code against killing", the reasons for it, and the pros and cons of it.

However, as time went on the "Dark Hero" simply became an excuse to have comic books with massive amounts of ultra-violence and death, without much in the way of justification. For every "Punnisher" or "Wolverine" there seemed to be 10 costumed psychopaths running around destroying everything they could simply because they could, and wearing the label "hero" for some totally unknown reason. Heck, we even had a few psychopathic villains re-defined into heroes with only the loosest justification.

I don't think Batman is a good analogy for Kratos. Batman's big thing is he is unchanging, and is that way for a reason (so generations can appreciate the character, if they change him too signifigantly he won't be Batman anymore, and unrelatable to anyone who decides to revisit the character after a decades absence).

Kratos is like a Dark Hero that started out being an interesting work of writing, but then due to his popularity was kept around longer than he should be, and the focus shifted entirely to the ultra-violence "since that's what the readers want". After a while, you can't even understand his motivations.

The big reason WHY this makes him differant from Batman is that Kratos was created for a clearly defined story arc... one that ended. Batman on the other hand was created with a motivation that was left entirely open ended as it's an obsession. Oh sure after 70 years Batman's motivation is pushing it, but then again you have to look at why people are still interested in the character, and why he did the multi-generational thing. Kratos on the other hand a scant handfull of years old and unlike Batman was not defined in an open ended enough fashion to be franchise material to begin with (where Batman was conceived for potentially limitless episodic writing, as long as comic publishers could be found).

The big problem I see with Kratos, and one of the reasons why I have never been a God Of War Fan (and while I've goofed off with them, have never paid to get any of them... even used), is that even when there was an understandable motivation the plot existed to justify a bunch of violence, rather than the ultra-violence being an extension of the plot. Back when Game Informer covered the development of the very first game, they were making pretenscious claims comparing this idea to works like "Preacher" (comic series by Garth Ennis, and something I recommend everyone read). The first thought I had was some of the comments in Preacher's forward about emulation and how he sort of hoped nobody would try and duplicate it because they would fail and probably wind up with "meaness, for meaness' sake".... which is EXACTLY what happened with Kratos and God Of War and has become incredibly transparent by this point.

Wordy, verbose, and rambling, but that's my opinion.

Oh, and consider for a second I love horror, ultra-violence, and sex in pretty much all media. The thing is that I feel to be good these things have to be part of a decent storyline. On the surface I might seem like the target audience for "God Of War" but it failed to hook me because even in the beginning it seemed to BARELY hold itself together, which got my attention because of the things it was being compared to.
 

HitsWithStyxx

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Hubilub said:
And I guess the explanation for Kratos' being a dick is that he feels resentment towards the Gods for not ridding him of his nightmares. He's still angry at himself, but he projects that anger on his surroundings, always looking for a reason to kill.
This, and the old treatment of power as some sort of alcoholic beverage, perhaps?