Kratos

[Valeran]

Was a good read, but I'm not sure I agree about Batman, though, but to each his own.

 

[Mr Companion]

I actually liked Kratos in God Of War 3 because I had never played the franchise before, and playing as a character who is such a crazy bastard that the only people in the whole world he did not kill are the women he had sex with is quite refreshing.

 

[retro himself]

But, being a god, and now tied to the essence of war, the flimsy human concepts of loss and mourning have been entirely overwritten with the unbending and irrational godly concepts of posturing and fucking around so he doesn't try to end himself out of boredom. Now, when Zeus gets all bent and tells Kratos to fuck off, Kratos the human would no doubt have just fallen back and accepted it since he would have been hollowed out and unfulfilled, but as a god, his only rational response is indignant outrage and an entirely shortsighted explosion of "fuck you dad, I'm going Titan on your Olympian ass!" Makes perfect sense in context.

As to why he stopped caring about all the mortal people? Dude. Since when do gods give a flying golden chariot pulling shit about mortals? You say incongruous character development, I say most sensible possible character development.

And, shit, I've never even played the bloody games. All I know about them is what you've said about them.

Ahaa, interesting point, especially since you never played the game. I'm glad to say that you nailed it. But, you missed one thing. In the beginning of GoW2, Athena took his godhood away from him since he was just plain bored and killed people for fun (kinda like Ares did, plus being a god kinda takes away the whole concept of mortality), so he's a mortal again in 2 and 3.
A half-god actually, but that's what he's always been.
And here's where even Yahtzee kinda missed the point. He didn't just start killing gods for no reason, there was a reason for everything, and they just started stacking up.
First, Athena took his godhood away from him. Okay, cool, it's Athena, they're kinda buddies and all, but then Zeus kills his whole army and destroys Sparta. Oh, and he also kills Kratos. That's basically the premise of God of War 2. He gets a new motive and he follows it to the end. Gaia revives him and he learns what the gods did to the titans and that all gods are kind of dicks, so he's compelled to destroy them. I know I'd be pissed if all that happened to me in one day. And if Zeus came up and waved his dick in my forehead saying that I'm a loser and that I'll never be the ruler of Olympus. And straight out kills me. I mean fuck. And Zeus was also responsible for the accidental death of Athena, so there's even more rage fuel.
I see GoW 3 kind of as a continuation of where he left off in GoW 2, I mean he still has those new motives from Gow 2, it's not like he killed them out of pure boredom, he did it out of revenge and rage, I mean he is the goddamn god of war.

But I do agree he's taken on a more hollywood-like appearance and voice of "pure badassery", which has taken some depth out of him. He's still cool though.

 

[KillerRabbit]

I wonder how his space game is coming along?

I was just thinking the same, read through some booring stuff about a game I have never played, only to find out there was no mention of his space game! *cries a river*

 

[KillerRabbit]

I wonder how his space game is coming along?

I was just thinking the same, read through some booring stuff about a game I have never played, only to find out there was no mention of his space game! *cries a river*

 

[kaedis]

Stilton: Very well said.

My favorite comicbook character was Wolverine. He certainly was not deep, nor did he change all that much. Well, until they yanked out his adamantium and completely destroyed anything worth loving about the character. For god's sake, they made him a Nancy boy rich brat as a child!

But, I digress. Batman, Wolverine, Lobo, Rorschach, pretty much any dark hero out there has one thing Kratos never will. They are actually HEROES! They are fighting for something other than the right to butcher yet more people.

They have a code they follow. It may be twisted and hard to understand at times, but there is a code which the reader can understand.

Kratos has no code. He has no goal other than to kill everything in front of him, (and to the left as well as the right). Furthermore, he has no weaknesses so there is no reason to believe he will fail.

He murdered all of the gods, including Zeus!

Why should I give a darn what Kratos does? If he decided to carve up and eat the universe I am pretty certain he would do it. Who is going to stop him?

Invulnerable characters are endlessly boring. And that pretty much sums up Kratos to me.

 

[Sentient6]

I'm confused here. The first line is "I love Kratos". But in the end Yahtzee says he's disappointed with Kratos, because the character went downhill after GoW1. So which is it? Unconditional love or heart-breaking disappointment?
Regardless, I do see the appeel (sp?) in Kratos. Yeah, it's not how a "true hero" is suppose to act, and there's not much actual reason behind his actions. But he's fun to watch in action. And "let's murder the gods just for the hell of it" is an AWESOME attitude, no matter how much you deny it.

 

[bartholen_v1legacy]

I haven't commented on anything ZP-related for a long time, but this was an excellent analysis about Kratos.

 

[Macgyvercas]

snip

Don't worry, we all make mistakes.

[sub]You better watch your back tonight...[/sub]

Now, play nice Hub. You don't to have to make me unleash a nostalgia blast that will bring the world to it's knees (and by "the world" I mean everyone between the ages of 18 and 25 who watched cartoons as a kid).

Excellent points in the article though.

 

[seamusotorain]

So, you're criticizing Kratos and Batman? The tidal wave of nerd rage that's about to break will devour us all.

 

[Supp]

Don't worry Yahtzee, I'm sure Dr. Manhattan will show up and blow up Kratos right as he is about to destroy the world through honesty.

 

[Booze Zombie]

I don't know, Yahtzee, it's quite possible for both characters (Batman BollockPuncher and Kratos McMurder) to be quite amazing if the scenario is sufficently well-written.
That said, for the most part, they are used as simple "established characters" and do what they are famous for in new stories.

Such a bad thing?
I'm not sure.

 

[Neotericity]

mind=blown awesome you destroyed Batman and ripped him down to the core of what he is, great article

 

[WaderiAAA]

I saw the young ones some times. Pretty funny in a Monty Python as teenagers kind of way.

Yeah, I agree with all the points. A hundred percent bad guy is as boring as a hundred percent good guy.

 

[deleted_scifidownbeat]

DELETED

 

[KarumaK]

Problem here is that Kratos is quite the antagonist in all the games. Once it's revealed that him opening Pandora's Box turned all the gods evil all you're left with is this;

Kratos not only killed his mortal family and then got mad at his half-brother because he couldn't be bothered to look around a room first, he drove every other member of his family insane and then got mad at them for it...

Also: OMG! Kratos is just like Sasuke!

 

[caballitomalo]

Well, I think batman does have a certain measure of depth once you factor in the fact that he is... crazy. Remember Rorschach in Watchmen? well... he's batman. An obsessed man willing to do anything to keep hes craziness going.

Did you read the same section of the graphic novel that I did? Because that's not Rorschach at all:

Looked at sky through smoke heavy with human fat and God was not there. The cold, suffocating dark goes on forever and we are alone. Live our lives, lacking anything better to do. Devise reason later. Born from oblivion; bear children, hell-bound as ourselves, go into oblivion. There is nothing else. Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us.

Rorschach realized that The Rules, such as they are, are completely arbitrary, and will be bent or ignored at the convenience of selfish, powerful people -- that there is no supreme arbiter, that There Isn't Anyone Up There At All.

And my reading is that [em]he wasn't okay with that[/em]. He believed the world needed clear rules, enforced with brutal impartiality. And since the need was so dire, and since there was no one else doing it... He took the job.

Ok ok ok... I'm not saying Ror and Bat at 100% versions of each other. But do this, strip Batman off of hes money and what would get? No car, no mansion, no butler, no secret cave and no real gadgets. You are left with a man with an obsession who is completely disconnected from society and is on a rampant charge to brutally punch hes way in to being a vigilante.

They have different motivations and they aren't copies of each other but the things that they share can't be ignored. Dark, strong arm, detective-ish characters who can't stop doing what they do even to the detriment of their own life and the life of those around them.

Thats why I say Rorschach and Batman are the same save for the millions Bruce has on the bank that let him go about hes business in a cleaner and leaner fashion. Rorschach never stops trying even in the face of defeat he never stops. Hes mind is lost in this obsession and so is Batman.

 

[blindthrall]

I'm trying to think of the last game I played where I wasn't in the shoes of some bland, mostly mute space-filler. I don't think RPGs count, since any character there is still developed by you. Niko Bellic was at least a character, even if not a particularly good one. GTA aside, Scarface? I guess existing characters don't count. The Swede from mercenaries was pretty cool. You have to go back pretty far to find a memorable player character, like Blood (evil undead gunslinger) or even the King himself Duke Nukem, even though he wasn't so much a character as a testosterone elemental. Can a game's story really be all that good if the main character has all the flavor of paste?

 

[Rickenbacker]

This column makes me think of Stephen Donaldson, who's pretty much made a whole career as an author based on extremely unlikable characters as "heroes"... although they're much less one-dimensional than Kratos, whom I frankly find pretty boring in all his over-the-topness.

 

[Killjoi]

Well, I think batman does have a certain measure of depth once you factor in the fact that he is... crazy. Remember Rorschach in Watchmen? well... he's batman. An obsessed man willing to do anything to keep hes craziness going.

Did you read the same section of the graphic novel that I did? Because that's not Rorschach at all:

Looked at sky through smoke heavy with human fat and God was not there. The cold, suffocating dark goes on forever and we are alone. Live our lives, lacking anything better to do. Devise reason later. Born from oblivion; bear children, hell-bound as ourselves, go into oblivion. There is nothing else. Existence is random. Has no pattern save what we imagine after staring at it for too long. No meaning save what we choose to impose. This rudderless world is not shaped by vague metaphysical forces. It is not God who kills the children. Not fate that butchers them or destiny that feeds them to the dogs. It's us. Only us.

Rorschach realized that The Rules, such as they are, are completely arbitrary, and will be bent or ignored at the convenience of selfish, powerful people -- that there is no supreme arbiter, that There Isn't Anyone Up There At All.

And my reading is that [em]he wasn't okay with that[/em]. He believed the world needed clear rules, enforced with brutal impartiality. And since the need was so dire, and since there was no one else doing it... He took the job.

Ok ok ok... I'm not saying Ror and Bat at 100% versions of each other. But do this, strip Batman off of hes money and what would get? No car, no mansion, no butler, no secret cave and no real gadgets. You are left with a man with an obsession who is completely disconnected from society and is on a rampant charge to brutally punch hes way in to being a vigilante.

They have different motivations and they aren't copies of each other but the things that they share can't be ignored. Dark, strong arm, detective-ish characters who can't stop doing what they do even to the detriment of their own life and the life of those around them.

Thats why I say Rorschach and Batman are the same save for the millions Bruce has on the bank that let him go about hes business in a cleaner and leaner fashion. Rorschach never stops trying even in the face of defeat he never stops. Hes mind is lost in this obsession and so is Batman.

Aren't rules important to Batman ? He constantly tries to work around the law but never breaks them outright. Ror on the other had doesn't really care much for the rules anymore. He has broken down and given up on society's laws. He has his own set of twisted rules now that work only towards feeding his obsession.

I always thought that Bat is not as driven as Ror.