Labour Party Leaked Report & the Inquiry

Gordon_4

The Big Engine
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I'm sure you're right. I live close to Blyth, which is one of the towns that turned blue in the last election. It's a dump - people literally have security shutters on their doors and windows (this isn't a common feature, but pretty unusual however you look at it). There's been a heroin problem there for decades.
Basically every country has had a heroin problem for decades. Which is odd since I'd have thought the problems would have been when it was being sold over the counter. I mean fuck, its occasionally postulated - though to be fair very little empirical data exists to back up the assertion - that one reason Australian troops did somewhat better than their US or British counterparts after the Great War was the six or so year period between the end of the war and the Hague convention in 1925 was because the Diggers could self-medicate.

Indeed, an Australian Customs report from 1908. Not 1978, 88 or 98, but 1908, literally stated "it is very doubtful if such a prohibition has lessened to any great extent the amount bought into Australia.". That was three years after many import bans had been enacted. I tell you what the officer that wrote that report was a fucking PROPHET.
 

Silvanus

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That said, I think nationalism is the last refuge of the frustrated and defeated, who have been failed by everything else. If they had secure, better paid jobs and felt more positive and respected, I suspect they'd be a lot less bothered about immigrants and the EU.
Which adds some vital context to details like this.

Is this coincidental, strategic, or simply vindictive? The former is quite hard to believe. Either of the other two possibilities are grotesque.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Is this coincidental, strategic, or simply vindictive? The former is quite hard to believe. Either of the other two possibilities are grotesque.
It's obviously strategic / ideological. These are seats that the Tories had no hope of winning, that they have no connection to, effectively no visibility of, and don't generate much money - why do they care what happens there? It may as well be another country. They can instead bung support to their strongholds and marginals to keep themselves in power. Hell, the Tories killed a lot of these towns in the first place when they decided the UK should be a nation of bankers and there wasn't any point making anything any more. Manufacturing was always going to decline to some degree, but Thatcher didn't just let it decline, she loaded the economy against it, blew it up, and let the communities that had depended on it rot. There was political gain there too: permanently weaken Labour's base by impoverishing and breaking its communities. Ever since the one-nation Tories slipped from ascendency, the party as thrived on division for years: the poor are lazy, feckless, useless, crime-ridden and deserve what they get. They're there to be feared, denigrated and controlled not helped, and as long as they can keep the middle classes believing that, law and order and reduced welfare wins the Tories their votes.

Now of course having exploited misery, nationalism, anti-immigration and Brexit to break Labour's grip on many of these places, they may actually pay attention so they can try to keep them. Oh, the irony.

That said, I don't think they will. It's hard to get government support past the ideologically laissez-faire ultras that constitute the cabinet. One look at all the answers to how to make the UK succeed post-Brexit, and they're all deregulation, lower taxes and reduced public services, etc. - that's why Brexit and libetarians have gone hand in hand. A decade of misrule has left the country up to its eyeballs in debt, with covid-19 the cherry on the top and Brexit to come, so money to fix anything is scarce. And even then, the colossal problem of how they keep these towns alive given it's a global phenomenon that developed economies increasingly revolve around large cities no-one has yet had an answer to. (In this sense, potentially the answer is to strengthen regional cities and it will drag surrounding towns up - areas with no cities like Cumbria or Cornwall are just irrevocably stuffed.)

The left tends to care about people. Those who run the Tory party generally don't - they're interested in more abstract notions like national greatness as measured by GDP, global influence, winning wars, etc. If they can build those on a bonfire of the plebs, they'll be stocking up the firewood and petrol.
 

Seanchaidh

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Keir Starmer's voting record is extremely close to Corbyn's. And yet from what I've seen, there's a vocal subset of Corbyn supporters who see him as a betrayal of everything Corbyn stood for. His strategic decisions thus far have largely been sound; he's performed much more effectively in managing the media and debating the government in the Commons; and politically he doesn't even represent a major change from Corbyn.
Is this also just more sound strategic decision-making?

 

Silvanus

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Is this also just more sound strategic decision-making?
Two... campaigners? Not MPs, candidates, or even councillors?

I wouldn't call it sound decision-making, no-- I'd call it a complete irrelevance, something I'd be surprised if the party leader was even aware of.
 

Seanchaidh

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Two... campaigners? Not MPs, candidates, or even councillors?

I wouldn't call it sound decision-making, no-- I'd call it a complete irrelevance, something I'd be surprised if the party leader was even aware of.
I can only hope you're right.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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Is this also just more sound strategic decision-making?
:rolleyes:

Labour has admitted or re-admitted members who were at one time members of the Tories, Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid Cymru, UKIP, various minor socialist splinter parties, and so on. Why should Change UK be any different?

People change party affiliation. If you want to run your party membership only for the lifelong loyalists, you're cutting off an awful lot of your potential support.
 
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Seanchaidh

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:rolleyes:

Labour has admitted or re-admitted members who were at one time members of the Tories, Lib Dems, SNP, Plaid Cymru, UKIP, various minor socialist splinter parties, and so on. Why should Change UK be any different?

People change party affiliation. If you want to run your party membership only for the lifelong loyalists, you're cutting off an awful lot of your potential support.
The rule says something about five years passing before reentry is allowed, which would make Change UK different in that respect.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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The rule says something about five years passing before reentry is allowed, which would make Change UK different in that respect.
It's not a regularly enforced rule. It's partly about giving them the ability to refuse entry to people they think have malicious intent to disrupt the party.
 

Iron

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Classic. "leak" the report, which conveniently doesn't incriminate the party itself but ""dissidents"" from within. Take no responsibility for failure, blame scapegoats, pretend you're right and move on.
It's funnier that people spend time dreaming about an almost victory, pretending it would have happened if it weren't for those meddling kids. Can't internalize their own failure, must pin it on sabotage.