Lack of Gay Character Options in RPGs "A Shame," Says BioWare Producer

[WendelI]

As a gay man, i don't want to play as a gay character if he is poorly written and just there for the sake of it being there to appease the more vocal minority. If you're truly passionate about making a gay character and him having great development and growth and other things that a character needs to be compelling, not just a gender identity then you should write one and for no other reason one should be written.

 

[UberPubert]

> Gamers say that creators should be allowed to tell whatever stories they want to tell.

> The Fullbright Company makes the independent decision to make Gone Home

> Gamers say Gone Home was made just to 'pander and be politically correct.'

> Repeat ad infinitum.

> implying gamers are a hive mind and agree on every subject (welcome back to the nest broodmate, shall we synchronize now?)

> implying this also implies gamers in this topic (including yourself) also say these things.

> implying great conspiracy to appear on the surface as a contradictory bunch when we are all secretly in agreement.

> implying assimilation complete, activating thread abandonment protocol Alpha.

But seriously? Stop. This formatting doesn't belong outside of 4chan and it's annoying there too.

 

[Ratty]

> Gamers say that creators should be allowed to tell whatever stories they want to tell.

> The Fullbright Company makes the independent decision to make Gone Home

> Gamers say Gone Home was made just to 'pander and be politically correct.'

> Repeat ad infinitum.

> implying gamers are a hive mind and agree on every subject (welcome back to the nest broodmate, shall we synchronize now?)

> implying this also implies gamers in this topic (including yourself) also say these things.

> implying great conspiracy to appear on the surface as a contradictory bunch when we are all secretly in agreement.

> implying assimilation complete, activating thread abandonment protocol Alpha.

But seriously? Stop. This formatting doesn't belong outside of 4chan and it's annoying there too.

Remember that Nintendo commercial from a few years ago with the young woman who said "I'm not a gamer"? I guess it comes back to the more diverse demographics of game players allowing the term "gamer" to be used simply to describe the dudebros who game. Which is a shame, clearly said dudebros believe they're what it means to be a gamer. And Mtn Dew and Doritos marketing believes it as well, maybe we should all speak up so we don't slip into believing it ourselves.

 

[UberPubert]

I'll format my posts however I want to, thanks.

> Certain gamers say that creators should be allowed to tell whatever stories they want to tell.

> The Fullbright Company makes the independent decision to make Gone Home

> Certain gamers say Gone Home was made just to 'pander and be politically correct.'

> Repeat ad infinitum.

Better?

No, your formatting remains the same.

Rather pointless now, isn't it? As a defense of game developers or as a criticism made by another person towards them what's the loss? Two or more people having conflicting ideas?

It isn't even as if one person making both statements is in the wrong. The desire to see game developers produce the content they legitimately wish to is not contradictory to criticizing the content they make. Disagreeing with someone is not the same as wishing they had never spoken at all.

 

[UberPubert]

Remember that Nintendo commercial from a few years ago with the young woman who said "I'm not a gamer"? I guess it comes back to the more diverse demographics of game players allowing the term "gamer" to be used simply to describe the dudebros who game. Which is a shame, clearly said dudebros believe they're what it means to be a gamer. And Mtn Dew and Doritos marketing believes it as well, maybe we should all speak up so we don't slip into believing it ourselves.

Or maybe we should stop using the term "gamer" at all? At least, not in any way more descriptive than saying "moviegoer" or "book-reader". Considering Kamui somehow used it to describe a vocal minority of the forum-going/video game reviewing community I'd at least say that was statistically incorrect.

 

[Denizen]

I just hope that Bioware doesn't get carried away with the sentiment of expanding gay characters in video games. If not handled properly, they could easily be doing what the 90s did with gay stereotypes. In some ways I think gay characters are still based off that design, or rather flamboyant & flaming exaggeration.

 

[AntiChri5]

I'd rather play as another race entirely. Dragon Age 2 not letting me play as a psychotic, sexually liberated Dwarf girl like in Dragon Age 1 was rather disappointing, and I'd swap a hundred Anders hit-ons to get that back.

It is back.

 

[Vault101]

if I recall in New Vegas you could be gay I think...or at least allud to it, no romancing though, I think that was actually an option once but they cut it

pretty sure in Skyrim you could be gay too? again probably not in the Bioware sense but its there

in retrospect the fact the first 2 Bioware games didn't allow you to be gay is actually pretty baffling..in a bad way

and no as far as I'm concerned Liara is a loophole with her own set of unfortunate implications

 

[SNCommand]

I'd rather play as another race entirely. Dragon Age 2 not letting me play as a psychotic, sexually liberated Dwarf girl like in Dragon Age 1 was rather disappointing, and I'd swap a hundred Anders hit-ons to get that back.

It is back.

And this time you can be a Qunari as well, planning to play as a female Qunari wizard that can crush the skull of her opponents

 

[Ratty]

Remember that Nintendo commercial from a few years ago with the young woman who said "I'm not a gamer"? I guess it comes back to the more diverse demographics of game players allowing the term "gamer" to be used simply to describe the dudebros who game. Which is a shame, clearly said dudebros believe they're what it means to be a gamer. And Mtn Dew and Doritos marketing believes it as well, maybe we should all speak up so we don't slip into believing it ourselves.

Or maybe we should stop using the term "gamer" at all? At least, not in any way more descriptive than saying "moviegoer" or "book-reader". Considering Kamui somehow used it to describe a vocal minority of the forum-going/video game reviewing community I'd at least say that was statistically incorrect.

Yeah, that's certainly another option. The history of the "gamer" term is interesting. As far as I can tell it started as a term for people who played tabletop roleplaying games in the 1970s/80s, a hobby that really WAS stigmatized and underground. Then it migrated to computer games from there. Today "gamer" is used as a term akin to "movie buff" by games media and people likely to self-identify as gamers. While "gamer" is just "person who plays games" to some in the broader media.

Meanwhile "gamer identity" seems to be formed largely by marketing from brands seeking to ingrain themselves as part of a "lifestyle" to affluent young white men.
Not just from small companies like this and "Gamer Grub" but also of course as mentioned before Mtn Dew etc.

It's all very interesting.

 

[Something Amyss]

Lack of gay characters sucks, but the lack of anyone actually being able to write relationships in games is the reason why we don't have them. Not discrimination.

If that was true, we'd lack straight characters. Or, barring that, at least straight romances.

Well, that's not the case, so I'm pretty sure we can call that myth busted.

I mean, I'm glad you said that you'd rather have romances not exist than have Bioware's awful attempts, but still.

SMH

Is it too much to ask that creators be able to tell the stories they way the want to without having to be all inclusive of every minority/orientation/political view, etc? I'm honestly getting tired of wondering which activist group gets to pounce on the next new game.

Considering that white guys are the only ones not being filtered out by publishers, that sounds pretty hypocritical. Especially given the number of RPGs that aren't about "telling a story" and are, as is said here, about "fantasy fulfillment." And since that's the only kind being talked about here.

I'd like to have NPCs who are not pansexual as long as you keep yourself on their good side.

They're only "pansexual" if you also consider all win/lose states simultaneously true. And all choices to have been made in every available way.

Many people don't want to see that sh_t. Same goes for pedophilia, bestiality, mutilation and any number of other perversions. Poll the public if you have the courage. No lead in/steering, 1) Want to see more gay. 2) Want to see less gay.

Poll the public on video games.

Still want to poll the public?

 

[UberPubert]

When all attempts to represent a broader worldview in games is summarily dismissed as just being 'politically correct,' I'd say it is, or at the very least, makes the statement: 'Creators should be allowed to create whatever they want,' seem like it would be more appropriately worded as: 'Creators should be allowed to create whatever they want as long as it caters to my specific worldview,' which is something that's very easy to say when your worldview is the one that's constantly being catered to.

But that's a few too many hoops to leap through to come to the conclusion that those defending artistic integrity in this topic - including myself - are hypocrites by association as gamers. I don't particularly care whether gays are included in video games or not, it hasn't stopped me from buying them before; Mass Effect and Dragon Age share a place on my shelf along with every other title I own. What I don't like is others shaming developers who have chosen not to, regardless of their reasons.

 

[Shamanic Rhythm]

I don't think we'll have reached the point of true equality until there's at least a gay version of The Witcher.

 

[wulf3n]

hmmm... why is pandering considered negative amongst the gaming community?

 

[UberPubert]

It's all very interesting.

Personally, I disagree, at least with this. (I don't mean for that to come off as rude or confrontational, imagine I put a sincere winkie face here or something)

I typically don't care how the media or critics decide to label gamers, they're rarely helpful during discussions that don't also include charts, graphs, and a need to label the data something, though "consumer" is probably a viable alternative anyway. There's just too many significant divisions of gamer that trying to accurately refer to them all under one label seems pointless.

 

[prpshrt]

I don't want them in there because they often feel really forced as if they're trying to prove a point (which they are). The romantic relationships in a lot of games are really awkward and unnatural and adding same sex relationships just takes that awkwardness to a whole new level since people don't seem to know how to write them properly. I also think its completely pointless to say a particular character is gay and have it add ZERO value to the progression of the story.

 

[Kingjackl]

How about we all pretend that he's actually a producer for Obsidian or CD Projekt RED, that might clear up some of the negativity in this thread.

He's making a good point - it's not a new perspective (Bioware and the gaming press have been saying this for a while), but it's still relevant when so many games are afraid of having gay characters. Even outside the context of in-game relationships, it's still hard to find well-written gay characters in games in general.

It's one thing to demand this sort of things in RPGs when you're meant to create the character - in those cases, same sex options should be the fucking standard. It would be better to have a game with a gay protagonist in a story that's set in stone. You don't even have to draw attention to it. I'm reminded of an idea Yahtzee put forward for a gay protagonist on one of his Youtube videos - you're playing an otherwise generic action game hero who at one point has to deal with a female enemy agent trying to seduce him, only for him to casually brush it off with "sorry, I'm gay". If done right, you could get a good joke out of it (crucially not at the gay man's expense) and it would actually empower the protagonist in a certain way. And if there's anything that makes game protagonists popular with the audiences these days, it's empowerment.

 

[Hawkeye21]

well, I am trans pansexual homofurry, and it's a shame that my sexuality isn't represented as well. Me and 5 other pansexual homofurries in the world will not be buying this DA:Cisquisition game. Get with times already, Bioware...