Ladies, how about you?

[Zannah]

Now, for some games I feel wouldn't do that well with giving the player a choice to customize their gender:

Deus Ex,DX Invisible War and DX:HR
I don't know why, but these character just wouldn't be the same if they were to be gender swapped, might be because I am biased or something or sexist or misogynist or whatever, but something about the very tight pacing of the story makes it very clear that all of it was written with a male character in mind, and most of it wouldn't work with a female character in his place.

While I haven't personally played most of the games you mention (and adaptations of existing Characters are obviously exempt) I have to object the Deus Ex example - those games, particularly Human Revolution have literally no justification whatsoever to be gender-specific -
especially since switching it around would make for a much more interesting (read: less often seen) character, and it'd take much less effort on the devs part then usual -

We're in the future - a future that at no point is shown to be discriminative, on the contrary giving us females even in usually male dominated fields like natural sciences. (And any antagonistic people you encounter would see you as an augmented first, and as your gender second. And any of the physical feats that Adam accomplishes, he does because of augmentations that could have been slapped on literally anyone. All it'd take would be a new Model and a new model for the researcher / ex-spouse that's being kidnapped and some additional voice acting. (And for kicks - let's call her "Eveline" making the biblical analogy simultaneously much less obvious and much stronger because it now also represents the temptation posed by human improved).
But then, the Human Revolution dev team could afford neither competent writers nor a competent ending, so I guess this is asking way too much.

 

[michiehoward]

No. I need something, anything to identify with the protagonist, regardless of gender to make a game playable for me.

Some quality, trait, belief, the will to survive. Something, no matter small so I can put myself in the story. (If its a plot driven game)

 

[Vault101]

You can certainly write characters who can have their gender swapped with no issues. But it doesn't work with all types of character, especially if their interactions with other characters (of fixed gender) are going to be static. For characters who don't have gender-dependent traits like "flirty" or "sexist", a gender swap won't affect them strongly, but it is likely to still affect them in small ways. For example, people I know who are fans of Mass Effect find the scene where Shepard head-butts another character kick-ass when Shepard is male, but hilarious when Shepard is female, which may or may not be the reaction the writers were looking for!
.

it is hilarious....but in a kick ass kind of way...

I mean technically it shouldnt matter because we can assume femshep and maleshep are exactly the same in terms of strengh (in femsheps case they could have enhancments for that kind of thing)and really a [i/]human[/i] headbutting a krogan is still kind of ludacris regardless of gender...I still find it funny if male shep does it

but in femsheps case its different because seing a women do that is even more funny because its so over the top

I don't care though...I think its great

 

[Nothing Tra La La]

I'm in the middle with this. I think I can get as much enjoyment from playing as either sex, but I HATE playing as Tough White Guy with Stubble(TM). It all comes down to how good a protagonist is, regardless of gender. I love playing as my lady Warden in Dragon Age: Origins just as much as I love playing Lee in The Walking Dead, because they have personality. When given the choice I always go with female, but unless a game has a one-dimensional stereotypical white dude as the MC, I'll give it a shot regardless.

 

[Mikejames]

Also - I'm really interested in those amazingly interesting protagonists everyone is playing, that are totally so much better then giving the player customization freedom - would anyone be interested in naming a few for me?

How about the protagonists to Silent Hill 2 and 3? Lara Croft? Ethan in Heavy Rain? You DEFINITELY can't stick boobs or a dick on those characters and expect the plot to play out the same.

Yeah, I would never complain that I couldn't personally customize Walking Dead's Lee Everett or Dreamfall's Zoe Costello to a gender I thought suited them better.

Granted, customization can be great, and we could use more female protagonists, but if you've played a game with a well-written pre-established character their gender shouldn't be something to complain about.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Nothing against the game or those who are about it - I hear it's really well done. That's why I'm bothered that a single factor turned me off like that and now I'm trying to figure out why and if I can fix it how to do that.

Why does it bother you and why do you want to fix it? Personally, if a game turns me off because of whatever feature (sometimes for very superficial things), I just move on. What's the drive to change your own mind about that?

Well because it's not just the Witcher that I'm currently less enthusiastic than I would have been in the past about. Then again, you're right - if it's not for me it's not, I'm just mulling on the why suddenly it's not.

Snipped because really long

Hi, this isn't about developer rights and artistic integrity (I've seen some of your recent posts, I know that's your think and I respect that). No to all the questions you posed about my "expectations" regarding movies and the like. I'm not feeling "harmed" by anything in particular nor railing against anything in particular. I'm just not feeling the desire to play games I can't be a girl in lately and I'm exploring why that might be and how I can get back to the older me who wasn't much fussed with it. I respect the stories games tell - hell, I'm devoting my academic career to getting them recognized as a legitimate thing to be studied like literature is studied already.

Honestly - I'm beginning to suspect that it is coming to this board and reading all the non-stop feminist vs. anti-feminist arguments around here. I really am. I think I may have been soured right here on the Escapist and maybe what I need is a break from all the politics of the gaming community and just to get back to the games themselves and stick to discussing them with my actual circle of friends. I hate politics and maybe that's mucking up my gameplay desires.

I'm sick to death of both sides of the argument about women in games honestly. You're brought up so many things I'm not even talking about here that are all tied up in that and I'm disinclined to respond to those points and make another place for that argument when we have so many already.

I... don't want to make the Witcher guy a lady. I was just saying that I passed on the game because I found it unappealing and as I thought of why one of the most prominent reasons was that I didn't want to sign up for 50+ hours of immersion into a guy with that personality. That's all. Nothing against the game or those who are about it - I hear it's really well done. That's why I'm bothered that a single factor turned me off like that and now I'm trying to figure out why and if I can fix it how to do that.

Ah! Completely misunderstood you there, luv.

No clue, I don't know you. I can tell you what let me turn into a mostly chill old man-eatin' witchwoman beast angel, starting out as a pretty twisted hater: Old age, life experience and the feeling that constant refills of ideology and pats on the back from shady and dubious folks would only go so far in making me happy.

Look around. Keep your eyes and ears and brain wide open. Check if there's a game that really looks interesting. Don't pre-order, they're currently all out to fuck you over, no matter who you are. Identify people that have a similar taste in games to yours. Be open. Pry your mind open before you go all yoga on that third eye of yours. Read a lot. Read more than you watch. Read more than you listen. Then, and only then, listen. If you feel you got a firm grasp on things, talk. This does not apply to online forums, handle them however you like. Shape yourself into the person you want to be for the rest of your life, or just the week to come. We are like that. You can't put all our essence into scientific terms; we don't function like that. Science only allows us to - eventually - make sense of things. Things are not scientific by design. Life is chaos; I can accept that. I don't want it to be an eternal struggle, but that's my own choice.

I was more appalled and disgusted by big-boobied Lara Croft in the original Tomb Raiders. Once I got over that, I found the games to be so appealing I even got a life-size Lara Croft to put at the front of my collection of mannequins. She looked like a bimbo freak, and I still loved and admired her. All the boys, well, most of them, loved her for all the wrong reasons; none of them got a Lara statue. I did. And I knew why. Because I really, really wanted her. They... just played games and wanked a lot. They're still my friends. Some still wank. Others got kids. Kids > Wanking.

If you find yourself in the middle of an identity or midlife crisis, acknowledge it - to yourself only, if there's even the slightest bit of self esteem and respect left. Do get it over with, though. You wouldn't believe how many folks are stuck in a dark place of misandry, misanthropy and misery from age ~40 to the end of their days. It sucks. It's not even a proper illness we could counter; it's a state of mind. Snap out of it. Enjoy life. Enjoy movies. Enjoy games. Keep on reading. It beats them all, hands down. Good luck.

Thanks, good advice, but I'm okay overall. Happy with my life and where it's going and all of that - just having trouble finding a game to buy these days that I don't already own or have played before and wanting to be a chick in most of them or I find myself not finishing them - handing them off to my fiancé or just putting them aside to play one day later.

 

[Olas]

I kinda like it when the game just picks gender for you. Making that decision myself always feels awkward to me.

Guy bytw

 

[APersonHere]

I'm just not feeling the desire to play games I can't be a girl in lately and I'm exploring why that might be and how I can get back to the older me who wasn't much fussed with it.

Like it or not... and to simplify what the poster above me has said... that is sexist of you.

 

[Animyr]

I have to object the Deus Ex example - those games, particularly Human Revolution have literally no justification whatsoever to be gender-specific -
especially since switching it around would make for a much more interesting (read: less often seen) character, and it'd take much less effort on the devs part then usual - But then, the Human Revolution dev team could afford neither competent writers nor a competent ending, so I guess this is asking way too much.

First, I don't think it would be quite that easy to do a gender swap. Besides all of the player's lines and their love interest's lines and paying more actors, they'd need to re-record any and every line in which the player or their love interest was addressed by name or gender, which was quite a few as I recall. As Caliban was getting at, the script is very much written around the assumption that the protagonist is a guy called Adam who loves a woman named Megan and it constantly tries to put you in the shoes of a clearly male character. And considering how HR was clearly on a budget that it nearly exceeded as it was(the ending shrieks "we ran out of fricken money!" out of every one of the four buttons) I don't really see how allowing a gender swap would have been so natural a move.

Now building the game from the start with a female protagonist would have been entirely feasible,I suspect, but in that case you seem to be implying here that the writers of Deus Ex are incompetent merely because they didn't make the protagonist a woman when they could have done so and when, by your own argument, it would have made no particular difference to the story if they had.

I dunno, something about that assertion just rubs me the wrong way.

 

[Vault101]

[snip.

I think your overcomplicating it a bit

the fact is media (and not just games) often doest have such great representation of female protagonists and "minoritys"

oh sure you have female/other race charachters but the golden seat of "protagonist" is often reserved for the white male..if I have to play EVERY SINGLE BLOODY game as a nathan drake everyman then my brain might explode

and if we are being honest with ourselves "artistic" expression is not a valid argument...because a "blandy mcbland" protagonist is often not an artistic choice but a choice to cater to the masses, a symptom of the fact that games are so adverse to taking risks (the exception to thsi being spec ops:the line)

more variety in the kinds of storys we can tell and the charachters we can have are GOOD things for everyone...people like the new Tomb raider because in some ways its a breath of fresh air

also "well we need more females working in the industry" <-is a cop out...because books and comics written by men are so far ahead

what we need are better writers and more freedom for devs

 

[mushroomqueen4]

Honestly, yeah I do.

I really like being able to identify with the person that I am controlling because it enhances my experience of feeling like I am in the game.

I mean, sure I've controlled plenty of male characters and had a great experience too...but it's just not quite the same.

 

[Eleima]

Not really, no. Sure, I prefer playing as a woman, because it'll make it easier for me to identify with the protagonist, but I don't mind playing as a male character, as long as the story's good and solid. The Witcher and the Walking Dead which have already been mentioned are superb examples of this. In the Walking Dead, you are given opportunities to shape Lee and the relationships he has with other people (Clementine, Kenny, etc), making him very much your own. Definitely give that one a try, the only thing it has in common with the series is the world it takes place in, it's leagues ahead in terms of storytelling and characters.

So in a nutshell, no, I don't mind playing as a male, but there are few really good female characters, so if I get a chance, I'll pick a woman over a man.

 

[EmperorSubcutaneous]

If it's a game I'm playing in order to be immersed in a world then I more or less have to play as a female character, or as an apparently genderless creature (like Journey), or in first person (like the Myst series). Sometimes first person games still make me feel like I'm playing a male character, though, if I'm really tall compared to the other characters or if I have manly-looking hands, and I find that disappointing but sadly expected. (Side note, I really don't know why they made the decision to have a realistic-looking creepily severed hand as the cursor in Myst IV, when the regular white cursor worked just fine for all the previous games.)

If I'm playing to experience a story, all I care about is how interesting the character is. I still prefer to see women and minorities represented as protagonists--and represented well--just because it's so damn rare and I think that's a real shame, but that takes a backseat to the character's...interestingness. I do wish more game companies followed the rule of deciding on a character's race and gender after creating them, I have to say.

If I'm just playing it for fun then I don't care about any of those things. But most of the games I consider fun seem to have multiple playable characters, or a non-human protagonist, or both (like Botanicula), so none of it matters.

The only games I won't play, under the umbrella of this discussion at least, are the ones that feature a dull cardboard cutout of a protagonist (almost all of which are white males, though that's unrelated to my not wanting to play them) and the ones that assume I'm a teenage boy, with tons of upskirt shots and whatnot. I'm not a teenage boy, and I find games that pander to me as though I were one to be rather obnoxious. So I just don't play them, regardless of how fun they might be.

 

[Mylinkay Asdara]

Snipped super long (but good).

Thanks for retooling Good points. It might be a passion combined with disgust thing. I'm good though - no major crisis, just muddly about my video game library. I... also might have been (and still am) procrastinating writing a really short but disgustingly stupid paper for my last semester of college which I am just about done with and still stuck churning out 5-6 pages about inane crap, y'know, that sort of thing. No counsellor required, just the next few months to go the hell by already (preferably with some sleep thrown in here and there).

 

[Dr. Doomsduck]

Yes! Absolutely! it's something that I've been bothered by recently. It might have something to do with coming off a streak of Oblivion, Mass Effect, Fallout 3, Mass Effect 2, Fallout New Vegas, Skyrim and Mass effect 3, only to go right back to Skyrim. Then I decided what the hell, that Dishonored thing sounds awesome, let's try it, only to be completely weirded out by everyone in the game refering to me as a 'he'. I did play the game through, so it's not like I won't play a game if they can't designate me as a female.

But yeah, it's a bit of a nag.

That's exactly the game list I've been puttering around in for months now (mostly b/c when school is on I try to keep to games I've already played at least once so I can drag myself away to do homework etc.) and it's had the same effect.

Again, it's not like I'm boycotting non-female offered games at all - you would miss a ton that way - I'm just feeling lackluster about them in a way I haven't before. It isn't as though I'm deeply troubled by playing games with male protagonists - my enthusiasm for those titles has just fallen off from where it would have been say, a few years ago.

Oh, I never meant to imply that you did, just that it's a bit of a strange experience that takes some time getting used to, for me anyway. Makes me wonder how transgender people feel, if everyone in the real world kept defining you by wrong gender...

I don't think this is specifically a gender thing. Some people like to play games with an avatar that represents them, that lets them directly interact with the world. Gordon Freeman is a mute, blank slate - no-one "identifies" with Gordon Freeman, rather, they fill his shoes. You are Gordon Freeman in Half-Life and its sequels. You do not play as Gordon Freeman.

Conversely, I am not Riddick. I do identify with Riddick. So when I play Chronicles of Riddick, I do not associate with the character, I'm not taking over for the character, I am merely controlling the character. This is usually the case with most games that have a written protagonist though. And like I said, it isn't a gender thing - I can fill in the character of Samus in Metroid Prime, because she's a mute vessel for the player to project upon. But I sure as hell can't associate or fill in Lara Croft, or Samus in Metroid: Other M.

Now, I don't have to play as an avatar representing me, or a blank slate, or what have you. But for many people that's what gaming is for - to interact personally with a virtual world. It is definitely not just because they're male and you're not. Probably. I'm making severe assumptions about what you play videogames for. I might have missed the mark completely. I'm not qualified to say these things, I mean. I'm just a dude on the internet. If I've said anything out of turn... assume I have zero intelligence.

No, that's pretty on the mark. Again - I am fine playing Assassins Creed and other games that I'm not doing an insertion thing with if that's what I fancy that day - just to climb some tall things and stab some folks, but my enduring love for games comes from being able to make them my stories and be part of another world - like one might when reading a good book - and that's something I am finding harder and harder to do when put into a male form.

Sounds like my wife and books. Oh she'll read a book if it does feature a male character. But the books she likes to read the most are from the perspective of a female character.

Yes, very similar - although I've not had trouble with male characters in books after my long years of being an English major I seem to have lost my insertion entry ability there in pleasure reading, which is possibly why it's become so dear to me in video games.

What makes the difference for me in books is the way they're written, I cannot under any circumstance read a book written in the first-person perspective, because it's not me. it takes me out of the story completely. That said, I can do third-person just fine, male or female.