Cut-scenes imply forced camera. Anyhow, I'd be shocked to discover there was any gameplay at all in MGSIV. After playing through the first eight hours of the game, I certainly didn't find any. Just a terrible movie. Also, the comic didn't specify forced camera vs cut-scene. It just specified forcing the player to look at something.bafrali said:
Leave Me The F**k Alone
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Too true guys. Good comic.
So many developers want to be "cinematic" but in AAA titles that just usually turns into "Bay-tastic explosion-fest". Dead Space, Uncharted, apparently the new Tomb Raider even Far Cry 3 had it. I don't know whats worse, having the camera remain in first person (if its a fps) to prepare for the inevitable QTE or just have cinematic after cinematic. Strangest thing? Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance had both of these yet they didn't bother me... I have no idea why.
I miss the games that let you piece the story together yourself from things you find in the world. Usually they still were linear stories but unless you found little lore snippets (metroid prime) listened to audiologs or read cryptic writings found on items (Dark Souls) you might not get the full story. And even if you did, what you read might be cryptic enough to leave you speculating. I think stuff like that adds replay value.
So many developers want to be "cinematic" but in AAA titles that just usually turns into "Bay-tastic explosion-fest". Dead Space, Uncharted, apparently the new Tomb Raider even Far Cry 3 had it. I don't know whats worse, having the camera remain in first person (if its a fps) to prepare for the inevitable QTE or just have cinematic after cinematic. Strangest thing? Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance had both of these yet they didn't bother me... I have no idea why.
I miss the games that let you piece the story together yourself from things you find in the world. Usually they still were linear stories but unless you found little lore snippets (metroid prime) listened to audiologs or read cryptic writings found on items (Dark Souls) you might not get the full story. And even if you did, what you read might be cryptic enough to leave you speculating. I think stuff like that adds replay value.
because i don't wanna quote people....
1. the forced camera bananas is kinda okay if and when done right, there is no such thing as an absolute.
2. clockwork orange reference shoulda been a shoe-in. to the person who said it would just require too much explanation then immediately said that they always do that in this strip... your logic centers are malfunctioning.
3. take control of away was literaly the only reason i checked the comments here. not to corect it myself, but to see if i was the only one who saw it. i generally assume i'm insane unless someone verifies the insanity for me.
4. "captcha commericals" were invented by richard nixon who was possessed by hitler's ghost. i remember Ol' Scapey before they were around. I miss those days.
5. I never never never had that problem with Amata in Fallout 3. i frequently wonder about the attention span of people who have those issues because almost everytime i read about someone braindeading their way past simplistic things, i reach for my beatin' stick.
6. it's a sturdy beatin' stick.
1. the forced camera bananas is kinda okay if and when done right, there is no such thing as an absolute.
2. clockwork orange reference shoulda been a shoe-in. to the person who said it would just require too much explanation then immediately said that they always do that in this strip... your logic centers are malfunctioning.
3. take control of away was literaly the only reason i checked the comments here. not to corect it myself, but to see if i was the only one who saw it. i generally assume i'm insane unless someone verifies the insanity for me.
4. "captcha commericals" were invented by richard nixon who was possessed by hitler's ghost. i remember Ol' Scapey before they were around. I miss those days.
5. I never never never had that problem with Amata in Fallout 3. i frequently wonder about the attention span of people who have those issues because almost everytime i read about someone braindeading their way past simplistic things, i reach for my beatin' stick.
6. it's a sturdy beatin' stick.
Well then they should learn to direct eye-lines. Or quit making games if they can't accept that someone's going to miss something occasionally - that's the charm of the medium.Arakasi said:
Tomb Raider is pretty terrible with it during set-pieces. I remember the days when you used to be allowed to actually play through them. Now they just cut-away every 5 seconds and it's disorientating as fuck. If a building's collapsing around me I don't really give a shit about what it looks like from a 45-degree aerial shot. If I wanted that I'd watch a bloody film.VanQ said:
OT: I am sick of this crap. It's lazy on the developer's part and equal parts irritating and infuriating and boring on mine.
Someone has been playing tomb raider. The hand-holding is pretty bad, especially early on. I think it got better later in the game though.
I don't know, I'd be more inclined to compare it to that part in A Clockwork Orange where the guy is strapped down and forced to watch stuff with his eyes forced open.
Watch as people agree with the author while not making the connection that to the idea that cinematic of all types are bad because of this. Because watching a cut-scene is perfectly fine in an interactive media... for some reason.
I'll take a well made, cinematic moment that helps to amp up the drama and gravaty of a moment over being locked into a first person perspective any day of the week.
You know why I like movies? Because in a giant monster attack the cinematography generally sucks (**cough**Cloverfield sucked**cough**). In a Godzillia movie you always have the best camera angel for when he uses a super attack or a swarm of tanks open fire. Taking the camera away from the iron sights for a brief moment to prove to me I'm not just some floating gun isn't all that bad. If the cinematography is well done all the better.
Now forcing the floating gun I'm playing to turn to look at something I wasn't looking at is a hole other story. Don't do that.
You know why I like movies? Because in a giant monster attack the cinematography generally sucks (**cough**Cloverfield sucked**cough**). In a Godzillia movie you always have the best camera angel for when he uses a super attack or a swarm of tanks open fire. Taking the camera away from the iron sights for a brief moment to prove to me I'm not just some floating gun isn't all that bad. If the cinematography is well done all the better.
Now forcing the floating gun I'm playing to turn to look at something I wasn't looking at is a hole other story. Don't do that.
Actually, it's really only with Final Fantasy XIII that the game started actively taking your control away from the cool points. X and XII had it to a small extent, but most of the combat and whatnot was still "Cut-scene introduces bad guy, battle starts" as opposed to XIII's method of "cut-scene introduces bad guy or generic mooks, party mows down the enemies while cut-scene plays and player watches". Though I suppose things like the chase sequence at the beginning of Final Fantasy IX could technically apply as well, I don't classify that on the same level as Metal Gear Solid or Devil May Cry, where despite everything being rendered with the in-game engine, the characters are magically much more nimble and adept during cut-scenes.VanQ said:
OT: I think there's a fine balance that can be struck in being "cinematic" in games, but most developers completely miss the subtlety and fly off the handle with it.
Same here. I feel like this comic is a direct response to Tomb Raider's scripted camera shifts and character animations, which is one of my favorite parts of the game. The fact that the way Lara climbs or walks or runs or jumps changes depending on her surroundings helps the game feel more cinematic in a good way. There were parts of the game where I couldn't tell if I was still controlling her or if the game had taken control, and making something like that so seamless was absolutely brilliant.VanQ said:
Simply not ripping the camera away from the player doesn't make it right. It has to be done correctly. If you are consistently missing parts of the game because you're looking the wrong way means poor level design. When the player is constantly progressing forward, set pieces should also be placed.... in front of you.
I would agree with this comic, except in the case of Bioshock, where one instance of removing control from the player was in the service of the narrative, in a scene that is frankly one of the most powerful in any game I've ever played.
OfficialJab said:
But...but... I want to see Erin with bits of wire in here eyes...the Hellraiser comic has turned me into a sickening monster that feeds on the pain and misery of others.
I think it's necessary to reference Assassin's Creed 2 here, where the game gave the player control of the cutscenes, but only during certain quick time events. I missed a hug from Leonardo Da Vinci for that.
In fact, cinematic moments when I'm actually supposed to do something typically go bad for me. Like in Gears of War 2, I found out that you could lose the final boss battle, to the disbelief of my friends. And in Spec-Ops: The Line, I missed the guy I was supposed to execute, making it especially awkward at the end. If a game wants me to play by its rules, I'd prefer that it took control away from me, so I don't fuck it up like I have so many times before. But if the game lets me do things my own way, then I believe in having complete control.
In fact, cinematic moments when I'm actually supposed to do something typically go bad for me. Like in Gears of War 2, I found out that you could lose the final boss battle, to the disbelief of my friends. And in Spec-Ops: The Line, I missed the guy I was supposed to execute, making it especially awkward at the end. If a game wants me to play by its rules, I'd prefer that it took control away from me, so I don't fuck it up like I have so many times before. But if the game lets me do things my own way, then I believe in having complete control.