TimbukTurnip said:
I cant say ive seen any difference in graphics, just some reskins. Either way graphics arent particularly important, and im not bothered by them
I doubt you haven't seen the overhaul on the gore, which is obviously the biggest difference in graphics.
Theres only one new gun (grenade launcher), one new pistol (magnum) and one new throwable (boomer bile). The other "new" guns are the same as the old guns except they look different and make different sounds.
Not true. For example, the AK-74 shoots a lot slower and has more kickback, but is more powerful than the M16. And the SCAR shoots in bursts, is more accurate, and I think less powerful. And obviously there is the silenced SMG, which is handy because it doesn't alert zombies (read: frelling witch) so fast. Then there is the Tactical Shotgun and the SPAS-12, I thínk the SPAS shoots a bit faster and has more spread, but I'm not entirely sure as I usually stick to rifles for the 2nd tier weapons. The new sniper rifle also has a larger clip, but I don't really use that so I wouldn't know about it's power compared to the hunting rifle. You're also forgetting about the adrenaline shot, the defib, incendiary and explosive ammo.
As for the melee weapons, as i said they're unbalanced and overpowered - fun in singleplayer but a ***** in multiplayer. And they seem like they were just added because other zombie games have melee weapons.
It's incredibly hard to judge how melee weapons will be in multiplayer, since we've barely touched that part of the game. Melee weapons are awesome versus common infected, but I wouldn't use them versus Special's. But that's all speculation, I'd reserve your judgement about those and just check for yourself how they'll preform in the full game. And as for why they're added, I couldn't care less, all I know is that chopping up zombies with a machete is
really awesome, and do you really need another reason? I don't.
- New Special infected, and the old one's got a bit of a revibe (the Witch wanders around, a female skin for the Boomer, the Smoker looks even worse)
New reskins and the ability to walk don't warrant a sequel.
On it's own not, but you have to look at the bigger picture: you're not just getting that feature on it's own. On it's own yeah it doesn't warrant a sequel, but you're getting all those new things at once in one game. And all those new things combined make the game quite different.
- The totally new Uncommon infected
Nice but also dont warrant a sequel
Same as above. On it's own it might not warrant a sequel, but you're getting all new features at once blended together instead of loosely added one by one through DLC. You also shouldn't forget about the consoles players, our 360 brothers have to pay for their DLC.
Not really. You're still shooting zombies in different places. L4D had the same - A city, a suburb, rooftops and a forest. Only difference is some campaigns are in daylight.
Yes, that's what a new setting usually means, different places. Shooting zombies is the gameplay. Also, the new cast and Uncommon Infected also belong to the new setting (and in the case of the Uncommon Infected, also to the gameplay). As for the levels, we're not just seeing the same one's as in the original L4D. So far we've heard about a theme park (gods those clowns are disturbing), a swamp, a mall and the New Orleans level we've been able to play in the demo. Means I'm forgetting about another one, which makes me curious. That's quite something different from the original L4D if you ask me.
Only one is original - scavenge. The other is just a harder version of campaign. Plus i expect it will only be fun if you have a mic - not everyone does.
Fact is: it requires a different style of play, it'll play differently, it'll be new and original because it requires a very different approach to play successfully.
Who cares about cast? Thats a matter of preference really - i prefer the orginal four as they were so silly - the new lot are too serious.
Maybe you don't like them, but they're still new and are a part of the new setting, plus I wouldn't call Coach and Ellis serious. I love Coach, but no one beats Francis.
Now it can move wall and doors and change the weather. Definatly a sequel.
To quote wikipedia:
"In Left 4 Dead 2, the Director has been improved to encourage more participation by players, forcing players through difficult gauntlets to reach the extraction point. It will also have the ability to alter elements of the level such as placement of walls, level layout, lighting, and weather conditions, making each play session unique.[4] The Director will now reward players for taking longer or more difficult paths through each episode by providing more useful equipment, such as incendiary ammo, along these riskier paths.[3]"
And that doesn't even include the upgrade in Special Infected AI. You can play it down all you want, but fact is: that'll change the game, and it'll play differently.
- New campaigns, plus the campaigns will be less linear and work more in conjunction with the AI Director, it's important to realise that we haven't seen a lot of this yet, mostly because we've only played a small portion of óne campaign.
Dont know enough about the campigns to comment on that, i'll have to wait for the game to come out to see if thats true.[/quote]
If you say that all these things are common in addon packs, what dóes constitute as a sequel then, I'm confused.
They are indeed common in addon packs. Like i said, if there was more
actually new and original stuff then a sequel it would be.
What's not new and original about the new gadgets and weapons? What's not new and original about the new Special and Uncommon Infected, or the setting (including everything that creates that setting), or the new abilities of the AI Director? Why is that not new and original, and what wóuld be new and original if all thát isn't?
As i said in my original post, i am basing what i say on the demo, so i could be wrong. We'll just have to wait for the game to come out to see.
Ahhhh, now that makes sense. It's important to remember how small the demo is compared to the full game, how much you're not seeing
Yeah but i mean a whole bunch with one swing? Wouldnt you lose momentum?
Very good point, yes that could use some work. I wonder what other melee weapons we'll see, I hope that there will be more differences between each weapon, like they did with the guns.
Have you? No one knows what versus will be like. As i said i can imagine the jockey being useful at the same time a spitter spits, but its uncommon for a team to work together with planned attacks.
Ive also seen that on its own the jockey is useless, at least against an average team that sticks together. (theres a plugin somewhere that you can download to play as infected in the demo, i saw some videos of it on youtube)
I haven't, but you're playing it down pretty quickly, while I see quite a lot of potential in the new SI. If I have to speculate, I say that the new one's are focussed on splitting up a tight group of survivors. For example, a charger can snatch an individual from the group, and the spitter could then pin down the rest to prevent the other getting rescued from the charger. Things like that. I'm quite sure that the new SI's force the survivors to be a lot more active. The Spitter prevents them camping on a single spot. I predict that Versus will be a lot more dynamic, a very different experience from the original.
And yes, the jockey might be useless on it's own, but L4D is a
cooperative multiplayer shooter. You're ment to cooperate, not going solo. The fact that many people still dó go solo and not work together isn't the game's problem, that's the players fault.
As i said, i think there is a bit too much for L4D2 to be a L4D update, unless it was updated over a long period of time, but there is also barely anything to make it a sequel. Thats why its an extension - too much for an update, not enough for a sequel. A middle ground.
In this case, a middle ground with too high a price.
However, you haven't played the full game yet, and you have barely seen any of the new stuff. When I read your posts, it really shows that the demo failed in showing off L4D2, it does not show: heej guys, this actually is a new game, and not just a glorified expansion pack. If they would've only enabled Versus for that little part in The Parish, then we could've judged a lót better already. For now, we've only seen a couple of the new gadgets and a small part of only the most basic of gameplay modes. No wonder you're saying that it feels as just a glorified expansion pack, the demo should've done more to show that all these new features together do make a new experience instead of just being a new things slapped on an existing game. Being more than the sum of it's parts so to speak, the demo failed to show that.
Edit:
Good heavens, this might be my longest post on the Escapist to date. I'm shocked at it's length.
