Legacy of Kain

WhiteTigerShiro

New member
Sep 26, 2008
2,366
0
0
DioWallachia said:
Or how about taking the third option and get Walt Disney out of the freezer to do the voice?? in the movies he was in, i could clearly tell he has a nice baritone voice that may actually pass for the real thing :D
Not quite enough of a Disney buff to know what movies he did voices for.... or that he even did voices in the first place. o_O
 

Lunar Templar

New member
Sep 20, 2009
8,225
0
0
DioWallachia said:
the greatest wall of text, in the HISTORY of walls of text
holy mother of god man!! calling it a 'wall of text' is a fucking understatement, you typed out a god damned Chrysler building!!

poiumty said:
Perhaps porting the LoK series to another medium would capture people's attention - an LoK movie or book, if done right, would be amazing - but for now we're stuck with a dead, unresolved series that had the potential of being one of the greatest of all time, yet it was either too ahead of its time or not in the right medium. It's a damn shame, but there's nothing we can do about it.
I'm with you here, been saying it for years to. the Legacy of Kain as a book would be pretty much awesome and really, a book would be more flushed out in details or tie up the few remain plot threads from Defiance (cause really, it didn't leave to many left)
 

DioWallachia

New member
Sep 9, 2011
1,546
0
0
Kitsuna10060 said:
DioWallachia said:
the greatest wall of text, in the HISTORY of walls of text
holy mother of god man!! calling it a 'wall of text' is a fucking understatement, you typed out a god damned Chrysler building!!

poiumty said:
Perhaps porting the LoK series to another medium would capture people's attention - an LoK movie or book, if done right, would be amazing - but for now we're stuck with a dead, unresolved series that had the potential of being one of the greatest of all time, yet it was either too ahead of its time or not in the right medium. It's a damn shame, but there's nothing we can do about it.
I'm with you here, been saying it for years to. the Legacy of Kain as a book would be pretty much awesome and really, a book would be more flushed out in details or tie up the few remain plot threads from Defiance (cause really, it didn't leave to many left)
I was about to say that there was a novel of Blood Omen 1, but after clearing my memories, i saw in this website that actually its just a japanese release of the game and i mistook the cover for a book cover. http://www.thelostworlds.net/Library/

In case if there IS a book for this series, it has to be about Moebius or the Elder God perspective. Mainly because the time travel rules and the omnicient powers arent well explain to begin with. And its head scratching how these 2 could even make mistakes with such power. Knowing their limitations and what kind of character flaw they have to even disregard the possibility of a paradox being introduced without the proper handling may be nice.
Or of course, there is the time within Blood Omen 2 and Soul Reaver 1 that may be nice to see. How long Kain has spent in the Chronoplast Chamber too see when he needed to take the risk of making a decision during a paradox (a decision that apparently didn't know that it will cause the Hylden invasion)
 
Mar 28, 2011
427
0
0
I doubt it would ever come to pass but, could you imagine a new LoK written by Amy Hennig and developed by Naughty Dog? It'd be linear as hell, but it would be incredible!

Oh, and; VAE VICTUS!
 

Mojo el Furio

New member
Dec 8, 2011
2
0
0
As much as I desperately long for a new LoK game, it isn't going to happen. Too many issues have arisen that would prevent a new addition to the series, problems that are truly insurmountable: the death of Tony Jay; Michael Bell not wanting to voice Raziel any more; Crystal dynamics shameful obsession with the Tomb Raider series and Amy Hennig leaving the company have pretty much made any chance of a new LoK game non-existent... or at least the chance for another good LoK game.
 

Lunar Templar

New member
Sep 20, 2009
8,225
0
0
DioWallachia said:
Kitsuna10060 said:
DioWallachia said:
the greatest wall of text, in the HISTORY of walls of text
holy mother of god man!! calling it a 'wall of text' is a fucking understatement, you typed out a god damned Chrysler building!!

poiumty said:
Perhaps porting the LoK series to another medium would capture people's attention - an LoK movie or book, if done right, would be amazing - but for now we're stuck with a dead, unresolved series that had the potential of being one of the greatest of all time, yet it was either too ahead of its time or not in the right medium. It's a damn shame, but there's nothing we can do about it.
I'm with you here, been saying it for years to. the Legacy of Kain as a book would be pretty much awesome and really, a book would be more flushed out in details or tie up the few remain plot threads from Defiance (cause really, it didn't leave to many left)
I was about to say that there was a novel of Blood Omen 1, but after clearing my memories, i saw in this website that actually its just a japanese release of the game and i mistook the cover for a book cover. http://www.thelostworlds.net/Library/

In case if there IS a book for this series, it has to be about Moebius or the Elder God perspective. Mainly because the time travel rules and the omnicient powers arent well explain to begin with. And its head scratching how these 2 could even make mistakes with such power. Knowing their limitations and what kind of character flaw they have to even disregard the possibility of a paradox being introduced without the proper handling may be nice.
Or of course, there is the time within Blood Omen 2 and Soul Reaver 1 that may be nice to see. How long Kain has spent in the Chronoplast Chamber too see when he needed to take the risk of making a decision during a paradox (a decision that apparently didn't know that it will cause the Hylden invasion)
i'd say ether the over grown squids perspective or Kain's, Moebius was never really that interesting to me, yeah he was 'omnicient' and important to the general everything going on, but he seemed pretty 1 dimensional to me, but the elder god is a whole other story, same with Kain, there was a LOT that they did that got no screen that was just as important as anything Moebius did.

but then, maybe there was something in Blood Omen 2 he did to be interesting, :/ that's the only one i haven't played, and the only one i don't have, nor have then money to spare to get >.<
 

DioWallachia

New member
Sep 9, 2011
1,546
0
0
The quote function is broken (again for Christ sake) so i depend of you actually coming around this post if i replied or not


--- to poiumty ----

The demons that appeared in Soul Reaver 2 cannot be Hylden but instead they are inhabitants from the dimencion that the Hylden were banished. But for the sake of argument lets just pretend that they are Hylden for a moment. We seem them in Soul Reaver 2 for the first time in Nosgoth future (100+ years after the Pillars collapse) and they appeared in Nosgoth past (500 years before the collapse of the Pillars) to stop Raziel to progress any further to retrieve Janos Audron heart. Now, if they are able to jump from the other dimencion to this one 500 years back, then the Pillars have already failed to do their job because all that the Hylden needed to do is just slowly teleport one by one here and there wont be a need to make the Pillars collapse anyway nor any massive scheme. Remember, the Pillars are supposed to keep them there AND reduce their powers to a minimun. After all, this is the race that was the equal to the Vampires in every level and imprisining isnt going to do anything because they will just warp back here, so i assume (never explained) that the Pillars ALSO reduce any reality altering power to null. But even then it seems so simple to just warp until every Hylden is free.
So, again, this was before the second paradox in Soul Reaver 2 and we see that both in the future and the past they can warp in Nosgoth at will without the help of that portal in Blood Omen 2 (that doesnt exist in this timeline yet) And yet, we dont see Kain mention them in Soul Reaver 1 nor Raziel shows any knowledge about them either; After all, Kain used to tell his adventures to his liutenuants when he was making the empire in the future, so you would expect at least to mention that a fucking army of extradimencional demons who hated vampires tried to take over the world, and since they can warp to the Nosgoth world anytime they would have tried it in both timelines.
It would make a bit more sence if the Demons werent Hylden but instead the habitans of the dimencion that the Hylden were banished to. Then, they would get brainwashed or converted to the cause of the Hylden to act as agents for them, because the dimencional barriers are Hylden-proof but doesnt include other races.

So now the only problem left is that we dont know why they didnt invade after the Pillars were gone in the original timeline (that is the events up to the finale of Blood Omen 1, including the time travel that made Kain the last vampire on Nosgoth) Alright then, we know that both choises are rigged to make the Hylden win (either by the extintion of the vampire bloodline that keep the pillars intact or by destroying them when you refuse) but there are no mention of any Hylden in the Blood Omen 1 >> Soul Reaver 1 timeskip. Apparently it was because they needed Janos Audron to be alive to use him in a machine that kills every living creature on Nosgoth. For what?? why do they care to kill every creature in the world?? arent they in a vendeta against the Vampires?? i know i said before that they are mad and deranged for imprisionement but they have at least some coherent capability to actually make a plan. A plan that resulted in a timeline where they dont win anyway (failed to check a bit more far into the future, eh?) Cant they just invade without Janos and kill everyone or open the chest of everyone to look for the heart and THEN use the machine??
They planned to kill every creature alive because that would prevent for more creatures to be born and eventually kill to be returned to the wheel and since they are inmortal and cant be returned to the wheel, there is little the Elder God can do and will possibly starve him to death. That is a nice explanation of their omnicidal tendencies but it left you to wonder why wont the tell the vampires about the Elder God if they knew if he existed or who he really is

---- to Mojo el Furio ----

Wait...WHAT??? Michael Bell doesnt want to voice Raziel anymore???? how?? why?? the other stuff you said i already expected something like that (like Crystal Dinamics milking the tits of Lara for cash); But him not wanting to do a voice?? that just struck me as odd since in the voice acting sesions he seemed to have so much fun working. Is there a link somewhere to see his opinion?? In another note, if Tony Jay was alive today and said that he doesnt want to make the voice for the Elder God; i could agree with that. Such a nice guy doing evil characters would have killed him more faster. Good is alergic to evil indeed.

----- to Kitsuna10060 ----

In Blood Omen 2?? you mean for Kain or Moebius?? it doesnt matter anyway, Kain in Blood Omen 2 is just Younger kain just after BO1, so he hasnt grow up from the "take over the world and the humans are sheep to be herd" not even in the end. Vorador is inexplicably and killed at the end without explanation of why cant he be ressurected. Janos Audron is trapped in the Hylden dimension, and didnt mention anything that could make Kain know the gravity of how far his enemies planed for him to fuck up the world.
In short, nothing of value is gained

In Defiance, we get to know that the Ancient Vampires abducted human children that the Pillars chose when they are born, and then they get converted to vampires to preserve the steril vampire lineage and therefore keeping the Pillars intact and the Hylden in their place. The last humans they captured were Mortanius and Moebius who, after avoiding vampirization, they managed to make a revolt and claimed the pillars for human ownership. In one of the murals in the vampire citadel, you even see the iconic paralizis staff of Moebius that i presume was granted to him by Elder God. This is apparently why Moebius hates Kain so munch because he is probably the first vampire guardian in a long time.
The writers need to explore if the Vampires shotted themselves in the foot by abducting children without asking; or it was the intervention of the Elder God that fucked everything up (again). I find kinda hard to blame the vampires, especially because the vampirization prosses need the Hearth of Darkness to work and since Janos Audron is like a vampire jesus, thinking that he may have fucked up or even have treated the humans like shit, sounds kind of imposible. Unless of course, the Janos we see in Soul Reaver 2 and beyond is a character develepement of a previous Janos who was a dickhead and learned his lesson in a hard way. So yeah, maybe having a game exploring the most hated character in the series + having a explanation of how the omnicience works + how Janos became the saint that he is + if the elder god had to work hard to manipulate Moebius; seems like a good idea to me

"if the elder god had to work hard to manipulate Moebius" aaah man, now i have to critice what i just said.
Remember, Nubraptor's Curse blinded Moebius from the true form of the Elder God, but that was like 500+ years in the future where Blood Omen 1 took place and if we assume that the Elder God gave the staff to Moebius then he most likelly saw him. Unless of course, his omnicient also managed to fuck him over, meaning that if he got the curse on Blood Omen 1 then he most likely had him in every moment of his existence regardless of what time period he is (see why a explanation may be nice?)

While we are on the Janos Audron subject, i think that another sequel possibility besides the "get the the center of the earth to find the core of the Elder God and kill him with the help of Raziel inside the blade, who then raids all the Raziels in existance, that have been imprisioned in the Soul Reaver, to the Elder God core and eat him from the inside out. The mere presense of all those Raziels in the same time period will make the BIGGEST PARADOX IN THE EXISTANCE OF ALL PARADOX IN FICTION EVER and possibly destroy the universe with the hope that everything resets back to normal without the Elder God presence" is a sequel where you simply revisit Nosgoth in specific points where is possible for Kain to jump to the Hylden dimension in search for Janos Audron and to find the Hylden general to purify his vision and let him see the true monster that has caused both Hylden and Vampires to destroy each other. Maybe we can get a dimencion hole big enough to trap the Elder God and trap him for all eternity.
 

DioWallachia

New member
Sep 9, 2011
1,546
0
0
poiumty said:
LOL. I could go on with this but not in hopes to get someone pissed off but to actually dispel most of the doubts about the series so maybe more people can enjoy it.........and so far i haven't make any progress. Maybe making a video pointing out everything that is lacking in the series like the Red Letter Media guy would help?? i don't know. I am not going to fully agree on making Blood Omen 2 non canon yet, maybe the answers are still there and we are not thinking hard enough and besides the other aren't free of the hook yet.

"They can't invade without Janos because they can't all get out at the same time, in fact it's implied that the portal isn't too strong and only a trickle can flow through"

But since you insist that the demons in Soul Reaver 2 are actually Hylden then they CAN slowly warp to Nosgoth if they take their time. Sure, the portal isn't strong but at least eventually they will pass trough; Like a slow Internet connection trying to download something big, it only takes time. And since in SR2 they can just warp in easily and in BO2 it should be even more easy now that the Pillars are looooooooong gone
Unless you refer to the fact that if the portal is closed, all the Hylden in Nosgoth will die because they lose the connection to their dimension (and they did die after the portal was closed) But here is the thing: Why are they connected to the Hylden Dimension to the point that going outside it may kill them?? Remember that we call it Hylden Dimension for sake of simplicity but we know that the Hylden belong to Nosgoth along with the Vampires since ancients times. So why returning to the dimension they originally belong to may kill them?? We could say that the Vampires also cursed the Hylden with something that made them unable to leave the dimension they are trapped on or else they will die. And it may seem like a good explanation except that makes you wonder why the Vampites didn't do the inverse?? Why fixate them to another dimension so they dont escape it when they could instead make them fixiate to the Nosgoth dimension and THEN use the Pillars to send them to another dimension??? they will die because they no longer are able to come back and problem solved, no need to maintain the Pillars for too long.
We cannot say that the banishment to another dimension was because they are too noble or above killing another race because the only noble ancient vampire we know its Janos and no one else (Vorador doesn't count because he is a human made into a vampire so he is sort of psychotic as them) Also, doesn't the banishment plan go against the will of the Elder God?? Why didn't he tried to convince the vampires to KILL and NOT banish the Hylden so their soul could be eaten......sorry, i mean "returned to the wheel" yes.
While we are on the Hylden subject; I believed that the demons in SR2 are just....well, demons and not Hylden because being otherwise it will make more questions than answers. So when i played Defiance and reached the part where Kain its alive in the other dimension, i though the voice was from either the spirits of Hyldens that no longer have a body or just telepathic voices from Hylden of another area of that dimension that its just keeping Kain distracted long enough for the demons to arrive and kill him. Another evidence of the Hylden only showing up on Defiance and not in Soul Reaver 2 is that in Defiance you fight them in zombie possessed bodies rather than the demonic forms that, as you said, they adopted for being in exile. It will make more sense if they warped in Defiance with a more grotesque and powerful form since SR2, where it was 500 ago before the collapse of the Pillars and now in Defiance its more close to the moment where the vampires are fully extinct, so technically we should have fight our way against hordes of the same demons in SR2 or more rare and powerful monsters, instead we get to fight zombie Hylden who aren't a treat unlike their previous forms. Kinda a step backwards unless we assume that just now in Defiance they are actually able to intervene more directly.
And now for something that i think fits better than the "He came back to life because his nature as the Scion of Balance allows him to" explanation. If we run on the logic that the Hylden where banish to this dimension in particular because it heals its inhabitants just enough that they dont die but the pain never goes away to the point they never die. Then Kain landing on that dimension actually healed him so he wont die or at least reshaped his internal organs so it will live.

We are almost finished

"As for why the Hylden aren't mentioned in SR1, it's because the writers didn't think that far ahead, obviously."
But they could have made Raziel also suffer the "new memories" effect so we know that he now has knowledge of a army of Hylden that challenged Kain in his youth for the BO2 timeline or that several demonic creatures with an apparent hate against vampires have tried several times to destroy the Empire of Kain for the timeline before BO2 happened.

"having the Hylden try and kill everything after the world was doomed by Kain's decision anyway makes them less of a competent, respectable enemy and more... comedic"
I still believe that the world will always be doomed after or before the Pillars collapse simply because of the Elder God existence. Killing everyone in existence in that world may have helped to starve the Elder God to death and hopefully after many millennia the world would have recovered and free of the Wheel of Fate oppression. But this is just assumption on my part regarding the objectives of the Hylden. I still think that they should instead have cursed the vampires to also see the god they where worshiping would have helped to make them realize the deception they were trapped into. Not that cursing the vampires with immortality wast a bad idea to show them how little their god cared once they were exempt from the Wheel.
 

Big Paja

New member
May 14, 2011
9
0
0
I'm currently playing the original Blood Omen: Legacy of Kain since it was released as a PSOne Classic on the EU PSN Store. I own all the games in the series and it's a shame that such an intricate, interesting, mature and dark story was left hanging unfinished. There needs to be a resolution!
 

Primus1985

New member
Dec 24, 2009
300
0
0
Aww how cute Azreal and Kain exchanging gifts, lol actually I thought Kain's gift was fitting XD

Am I alone in liking the Soul Reaver series? I mean heck I played 1 forever, 2 and 3 wherent superb but all together it was a great series.
 

Inuprince

New member
Aug 12, 2008
209
0
0
Primus1985 said:
Aww how cute Azreal and Kain exchanging gifts, lol actually I thought Kain's gift was fitting XD

Am I alone in liking the Soul Reaver series? I mean heck I played 1 forever, 2 and 3 wherent superb but all together it was a great series.

Well, you may like the series, but you don't remember things very well. It's RAZIEL and not Azreal.

And there was no Soul Reaver 3, you probably meant Defiance...

I'm not trying to be rude, just correcting you.
 

FoolKiller

New member
Feb 8, 2008
2,409
0
0
Man... I really loved this series but was so glad that it ended. I think the hardest thing for any epic like LotR or LoK to do is find a good ending. Most just continue on with sequel-itis because they keep finding a reason to continue the stories.

I was happy that all of the games in the series (except the non-canonical Blood Omen 2) had a purpose and that the story has been resolved. I like to revisit them once in a while but i don't want them to make any more.
 

karloss01

New member
Jul 5, 2009
991
0
0
FoolKiller said:
Man... I really loved this series but was so glad that it ended. I think the hardest thing for any epic like LotR or LoK to do is find a good ending. Most just continue on with sequel-itis because they keep finding a reason to continue the stories.

I was happy that all of the games in the series (except the non-canonical Blood Omen 2) had a purpose and that the story has been resolved. I like to revisit them once in a while but i don't want them to make any more.
hate to thread necromancy but the series ended on a cliff hanger. The Hylden were let loose and the Elder God was exposed to Kain through the help of Raziel purifying the soul reaver. The series need one more game to wrap up the story.