Legend of Grimrock Review

Slycne

Tank Ninja
Feb 19, 2006
3,422
0
0
Legend of Grimrock Review

Even if you?re utterly new to this specific type of RPG, there?s a lot of dungeon delving to enjoy in Legend of Grimrock.

Read Full Article
 

Azuaron

New member
Mar 17, 2010
621
0
0
You know, if this game was setup like Diablo (overhead click-smashing), Dragon Age (mobile over-head/-shoulder tactical), or Skyrim (first-person or third person low-tech) I'd probably be all over it. But there's a reason we no longer have grid-based RPGs.
 

Fr]anc[is

New member
May 13, 2010
1,893
0
0
Azuaron said:
You know, if this game was setup like Diablo (overhead click-smashing), Dragon Age (mobile over-head/-shoulder tactical), or Skyrim (first-person or third person low-tech) I'd probably be all over it. But there's a reason we no longer have grid-based RPGs.
And that reason is...?
 

Waaghpowa

Needs more Dakka
Apr 13, 2010
3,073
0
0
It's good to know that you reviewed this with no, as you said, rose tinted glasses. Some people would dismiss your review as being blinded by nostalgia, when really you're recognizing it as a great game in its own right.

I've been playing this game for a while, and not only does it draw you in for hours, but it's fairly challenging. I keep getting murdered by groups of spiders and those weird mushroom things that make poison clouds >.>
 

gigastar

Insert one-liner here.
Sep 13, 2010
4,419
0
0
Dont feel guilty about abusing the AI targeting. Deeper down it will become quite vital unless you enjoy your reloading process, because after a certain point most enemies will do so much damage that its suicide to take them head on. I tried it the manly way, they promptly hacked off my pectorals and made them into a patty.
 

draythefingerless

New member
Jul 10, 2010
539
0
0
yeah i remember the level 9 ice lizards...ill say this one time only. FUCK THOSE FUCKING LIZARDS. but otherwise, nice game. but seriously thou....FUCK THOSE LIZARDS...
 

Filiecs

New member
May 24, 2011
359
0
0
draythefingerless said:
yeah i remember the level 9 ice lizards...ill say this one time only. FUCK THOSE FUCKING LIZARDS. but otherwise, nice game. but seriously thou....FUCK THOSE LIZARDS...
I remember once I was trying to get through that part with only one character left. I ran into one of them and it attacked me, almost killing me. I proceeded to run away and turn a few corners only to find it waiting for me in the direction I needed to go. I immediately thought "Clever girl!" before it proceeded to gut me and devour my entrails.
 

tautologico

e^(i * pi) + 1 = 0
Apr 5, 2010
725
0
0
Although I did play some dungeon crawlers in their time, I was not a big fan of them too. And I'm also loving Legend of Grimrock. I also have the same problem with the controls, clicking the wrong mouse button in the middle of battle. I quite regret going with the default party, would be much better to have 2 mages instead of a mage and a rogue.

Anyway, I still have to finish it, and it's a very good experience so far.
 

bobstone

confused by humans
Sep 8, 2010
53
0
0
how is grid paper included in the download? honest question, do you mean to imply that you open your "MAP" in game, but you are responsible for filling it out ?

fyi if not that is an awesome idea so no one steal it from me.....

or did you just misspeak? and meant to say the store bought version?
 

Fr]anc[is

New member
May 13, 2010
1,893
0
0
tautologico said:
would be much better to have 2 mages instead of a mage and a rogue.
I've got two mages in my party right now. It lets each of them specialize, but it adds about twice as many clicks to combat and slows down the attack rotation. You could give your back row rogue the long reach ability for daggers, and I've also been reading about a cheesy minotaur high strength archer build.

bobstone said:
how is grid paper included in the download? honest question, do you mean to imply that you open your "MAP" in game, but you are responsible for filling it out ?
The GOG version comes with a nice blank map PDF that has a space for notes on it.
 

Slycne

Tank Ninja
Feb 19, 2006
3,422
0
0
bobstone said:
how is grid paper included in the download? honest question, do you mean to imply that you open your "MAP" in game, but you are responsible for filling it out ?

fyi if not that is an awesome idea so no one steal it from me.....

or did you just misspeak? and meant to say the store bought version?
C:\Program Files\Steam\steamapps\common\legend of grimrock\extras

It's actual graph paper so you can map by hand with paper and pencil.
 

bobstone

confused by humans
Sep 8, 2010
53
0
0
cool cool, just seems kinda weird to print graph paper, but I guess not everyone actually keeps a few stacks or knows where to buy them. and it is cool to print them, I just never thought of doing that with graph paper...


so off-topic quick like, would you use an in-game mapper ? assuming it had a good user interface appropriate to the games mapping needs? in the case of this game it would be simplicity it self to create and use I would think since it is grid based.
 

loa

New member
Jan 28, 2012
1,716
0
0
Fuck yeah, it's lands of lore before it turned to shit with jump&run puzzles and stuff.
And with less story but whatever.
 

Slycne

Tank Ninja
Feb 19, 2006
3,422
0
0
Slycne said:
Legend of Grimrock Review

Even if you?re utterly new to this specific type of RPG, there?s a lot of dungeon delving to enjoy in Legend of Grimrock.

Read Full Article

y u use 2 mages?

i really liked that if you fall down a pit you dont die immediately but instead find your group in a new area.



the circle around enemies trick is cheap but if you see some of the enemies they throw at you you do not really have a choice.

and it becomes necessary when you intent to play trough toorum mode.
Throughout the game, you'll follow Toorum's Notes to his eventual demise. With a little craftiness, you'll be able to bring Toorum's skeleton back to a Crystal of Life, and release his spirit to gain the Achievement.

What you likely didn't know is that this also opens up an optional special game mode, where you'll be able to play through the entire game as Toorum! That's right, not only do you get a brand new character with a never-before-seen portrait, but Toorum gets to take advantage of an all-new set of skills and a special trait that should change up gameplay quite a bit.



To access "Toorum Mode", once you've unlocked the "Buddies with Toorum" Achievement (see our Level 10 walkthrough for more details on how to do so), you'll need to select New Game from the main menu. Create a single character, and type in the name "Toorum", then press the Enter key on your keyboard. If you've done this correctly, you'll hear a chime and the game's introduction will begin.

Starting the game as Toorum will reveal you now have only a single character in your party, as well as the following new statistics and skills:

Health: 95
Energy: 55
Strength: 18
Dexterity: 15
Vitality: 16
Willpower: 12

Traits: Tough, Skilled, Thunderstruck

Skills: Armors, Axes, Swords, Earth Magic, Fire Magic, Spellcraft

In addition to a very diverse set of skills, Toorum is also equipped with the exclusive Thunderstruck trait, which grants him 2x normal movement speed. All of these bonuses should add up to make your future play-throughs a great deal more interesting. Note that unlike a standard Mage, Toorum requires a staff or orb of some sort to use magic.
you can also exploit the pull lever to open door, hit enemy with everything you got and pull lever again to close the door,rinse and repeat trick.

captcha: identity theft
bwahahaHAHAHAHAHA!
 

Clive Howlitzer

New member
Jan 27, 2011
2,783
0
0
I am totally playing a different game than everyone else. This is coming from someone who did play a ton of old school RPGs, including tons of the old Might and Magic titles but I just cannot get into this one. I am going to get there eventually, slogging through it right now to try and beat it, generally streaming it with friends watching because otherwise its too depressing to play.
I just can't fathom all the design features that are obviously done consciously but are so bad, there is a reason they don't do them anymore. I get it is meant to be a throwback but would it have totally ruined it for everyone if they just added some quality of life features? Really, the inventory mini-game of constantly rotating crap around is not fun and it wasn't fun back then either.
Also, I am only on lvl. 6 right now, but the game is showing its(I assume) low budget. If you have a fetish for masonry, you certainly won't get bored but if you want to see something besides the same 3 walls cut and pasted until the end of time, you are screwed.
Here's hoping it gets better instead of worse!
 

Azuaron

New member
Mar 17, 2010
621
0
0
Fr said:
anc[is]
Azuaron said:
You know, if this game was setup like Diablo (overhead click-smashing), Dragon Age (mobile over-head/-shoulder tactical), or Skyrim (first-person or third person low-tech) I'd probably be all over it. But there's a reason we no longer have grid-based RPGs.
And that reason is...?
The controls suck (I thought that would be clear within context of my saying controls that would work).
 

Fr]anc[is

New member
May 13, 2010
1,893
0
0
Azuaron said:
The controls suck (I thought that would be clear within context of my saying controls that would work).
But they do work. They aren't broke, and the entire point of the game was a return to that style. You just don't like them.
 

Mabster

New member
May 8, 2011
59
0
0
Azuaron said:
The controls suck (I thought that would be clear within context of my saying controls that would work).
The grid based system is a large element in what makes dungeon crawlers fun. The strict and logical rules make the devious puzzles possible and give a nice tactical feel to the combat. After a while the immersion kicks in, and hopping between squares and 90 degree turns become perfectly normal. It's a system very much tied to the core the genre, and the game wouldn't be as good without it.
 

Baby Tea

Just Ask Frankie
Sep 18, 2008
4,687
0
0
Azuaron said:
Fr said:
anc[is]
Azuaron said:
You know, if this game was setup like Diablo (overhead click-smashing), Dragon Age (mobile over-head/-shoulder tactical), or Skyrim (first-person or third person low-tech) I'd probably be all over it. But there's a reason we no longer have grid-based RPGs.
And that reason is...?
The controls suck (I thought that would be clear within context of my saying controls that would work).
No they don't. They are different, certainly. Took me a while to get used to. But 'suck'? No. Not once when playing this have I thought negative thoughts about the control scheme. Just takes getting used to, especially for someone like me who (Like [user]Slycne[/user]) never played this genre before. Beyond that, this game is awesome. Just awesome.
 

Azuaron

New member
Mar 17, 2010
621
0
0
Fr said:
anc[is]
Azuaron said:
The controls suck (I thought that would be clear within context of my saying controls that would work).
But they do work. They aren't broke, and the entire point of the game was a return to that style. You just don't like them.
I do not disagree on any individual point. Although, even keeping the grid-based system, their control scheme really could use some work (clicking tiny icons on the portraits to attack? Really? We solved that problem for first-person perspective, multi-person party combat way back in Might in Magic.)

Mabster said:
The grid based system is a large element in what makes dungeon crawlers fun.
I'm pretty sure what makes dungeon crawlers fun is crawling dungeons, and all the monster killing, looting, traps disarming, and puzzle solving that entails. The dungeon crawler has always been independent of play style, and has probably ranged through every play style there is (MUD, overhead, first-person, side scroller, grid, mouse controls, keyboard controls, controller, joystick, pen and paper, miniatures wargaming, etc. etc. etc.). Saying the grid system is what makes dungeon crawlers fun is like saying the AK-47 is what makes first-person shooters fun.

Mabster said:
The strict and logical rules make the devious puzzles possible and give a nice tactical feel to the combat.
I've played dozens of non-grid games with logical rules, devious puzzles, and tactical combat.

Mabster said:
After a while the immersion kicks in, and hopping between squares and 90 degree turns become perfectly normal. It's a system very much tied to the core the genre, and the game wouldn't be as good without it.
The game would be a different game without it, certainly, but unless they "port" the game into a different play style it's impossible to make a comparison. I can, however, look at non-grid dungeon crawlers and say, "Diablo III is pretty fricking fun."

And, thinking about this, I'd probably play the game if it was an overhead view, even keeping the grid system. First-person games in general give a claustrophobic view of the world. Humans have a visual range of ~190 degrees. Combine that with the ability to turn your head and you have around 400. First-person games give you maybe 90 degrees, and grid-based games absolutely kill your ability to "turn your head" easily. I would just as soon play Dark Souls with blinders.

Further, telling me that I have to wait "a while" for the immersion to "kick in" gives me the same kind of shiver I get when someone tells me that my eyes will adjust to the 3D movie after the first half-hour. Maybe I don't want to pay $15 for a half-hour of headache in the theater, thanks, and there's always the chance that my eyes won't adjust at all and I've got a headache through the whole thing.
 

Skratt

New member
Dec 20, 2008
824
0
0
Good to know that someone who has never played the genre actually enjoys it. I played them when I was younger, but they bore me now, which is a bit disappointing because I remember really enjoying them. Arcana was one of my favorites, but the fog of war mini-map controlled my OCD to the point of scary. Gods how I don't miss that.
 

Slycne

Tank Ninja
Feb 19, 2006
3,422
0
0
meh. if it's anything like the ultima underworld fans said... it probably won't have much replay value after you've beaten. most of the appeal of dungeon crawlers is in the exploration and the sense of mystery surrounding your quest. once you've figured it out, it just gets boring. this need to have more randomly generated parts and item drops like in a rogue-like.

otherwise i'll get bored with it after a month or after i beat it. just like ultima underworld. i've made several failed attempts to replay the underworlds over the years.
 

Mabster

New member
May 8, 2011
59
0
0
Azuaron said:
The dungeon crawler has always been independent of play style, and has probably ranged through every play style there is (MUD, overhead, first-person, side scroller, grid, mouse controls, keyboard controls, controller, joystick, pen and paper, miniatures wargaming, etc. etc. etc.).
With dungeon crawlers I mean specifically games similar to Dungeon Master (Eye of the Beholder, Captive, Knightmare, Lands of Lore, ect.). They are distinctive enough in their playstyle and feel to deserve their own category, so for me, comparing this to Diablo is just crazy talk. I wasn't actually aware that roguelikes and hack 'n slash games are considered to be in the same category, but then again, there really hasn't been a proper one of these in over 15 years.

Anyway, I still maintain that the gamey and clunky grid mechanic is important for these games.

Azuaron said:
Further, telling me that I have to wait "a while" for the immersion to "kick in" gives me the same kind of shiver I get when someone tells me that my eyes will adjust to the 3D movie after the first half-hour.
Often games require a moment for players to get familiar with the controls and playstyle. The movement mechanic is pretty much unique to these games, so the fact that it might feel weird for new players doesn't seem surprising to me.
 

Tiamat666

Level 80 Legendary Postlord
Dec 4, 2007
1,012
0
0
I loved Lands of Lore, by far the best of these grid-type RPGs. It's too bad these games have become a casualty of the 3D craze. But great to see an indie team picking up the concept.
 

JesterRaiin

New member
Apr 14, 2009
2,286
0
0
Azuaron said:
(...)Further(...)
Trying to convince die-hard fans of genre that newest (and one of best) addition to their collection is shit. Smooth. Reallllllllly smooth. ;p

Tiamat666 said:
I loved Lands of Lore, by far the best of these grid-type RPGs. It's too bad these games have become a casualty of the 3D craze. But great to see an indie team picking up the concept.
Amen to that.
BTW : are you familiar with "Anvil of Dawn" game ?
 

Azuaron

New member
Mar 17, 2010
621
0
0
JesterRaiin said:
Azuaron said:
(...)Further(...)
Trying to convince die-hard fans of genre that newest (and one of best) addition to their collection is shit. Smooth. Reallllllllly smooth. ;p
I do find it interesting that the best argument to come up against me is, "You get used to it!"

Also, to be clear, I'm not saying Grimrock is bad, not in a million years. It's controls look clunky as Hell, but that doesn't mean it is, as a whole, bad.

I'm saying first-person grid-based games are bad.

...which I suppose through transitive logic means I'm saying Grimrock is bad. But not specifically. I just mean that I have a much broader disdain than this one game.
 

JesterRaiin

New member
Apr 14, 2009
2,286
0
0
Azuaron said:
I'm saying first-person grid-based games are bad.
I understand you, but...
As long as there are people ready to invest time, money and other resources to play such games - no. They aren't bad. Of course you're entitled to have your opinion, but that's nothing else than that. An opinion with (i guess) as many supporters as opponents. ;]
 

Azuaron

New member
Mar 17, 2010
621
0
0
JesterRaiin said:
Azuaron said:
I'm saying first-person grid-based games are bad.
I understand you, but...
As long as there are people ready to invest time, money and other resources to play such games - no. They aren't bad. Of course you're entitled to have your opinion, but that's nothing else than that. An opinion with (i guess) as many supporters as opponents. ;]
JesterRaiin said:
...They aren't bad. Of course you're entitled to have your opinion...
That amount of cognitive dissonance right next to itself just broke my brain.
 

Blood Brain Barrier

New member
Nov 21, 2011
2,004
0
0
Could we perhaps stop giving this dude's opinions so much sympathy? Not only are grid-based games not 'bad', they're infinitely better than Diablo, Dragon Age and Skyrim, games which have no tactics or combat strategy, no challenging mind-puzzles, weak and diluted leveling system, and bloated stories with too much talking for very little substance.

Bad controls is not an argument. Some of the best games in history have had bad controls. Anyway, it's irrelevant because Grimrock has good controls. Very good. It feels natural and intuitive using the six directional keys to navigate and turn.
 

bobstone

confused by humans
Sep 8, 2010
53
0
0
Azuaron said:
JesterRaiin said:
Azuaron said:
I'm saying first-person grid-based games are bad.
I understand you, but...
As long as there are people ready to invest time, money and other resources to play such games - no. They aren't bad. Of course you're entitled to have your opinion, but that's nothing else than that. An opinion with (i guess) as many supporters as opponents. ;]
JesterRaiin said:
...They aren't bad. Of course you're entitled to have your opinion...
That amount of cognitive dissonance right next to itself just broke my brain.
how is it cognitive dissonance

he stated as i read it, that people take time to make it, and people take time to play it, so it just cant be bad out right, however; you can have your own opinion that it is bad, while others have one that says it is good.

if one was to read his sentences and purposefully misconstrue his meaning then yes it might fall under cognitive dissonance. but since the last few posts, he said opinion while you just said bad. so honestly you both seem to be reading in to what ya see to fuel your side.

which tbh I am doing on the side of silly pointless arguments :)


also grid based rpg attract me because of the map types, in a grid based rpg I typical will have the whole level memorized after a while and can rapidly move cause I know how many times to press left then forward ect... sounds weird, but I am in to that type of thing with games. plus it is very structured in a way that you cant get with an open environment, while a 3d game allows for other things, their are benefits to grid based games.

lastly.
unless you are playing only MW/clones series you have to get used to controls in every game you play, unless you expect me to believe your a master instantly at all control layouts? some of the different control systems took me FOREVER to fully figure out, but in the end it worked better then what I might have assumed to be the best style for a given game... in other cases the controls stank thru and thru.
 

Tiamat666

Level 80 Legendary Postlord
Dec 4, 2007
1,012
0
0
JesterRaiin said:
BTW : are you familiar with "Anvil of Dawn" game ?
Oh, now that I see the screenshots, I remember playing it on Dosbox once. It was pretty good and I cleared the first mayor level in some kind of castle. Then probably exams came up and I forgot about it. Would be a nice warm-up to Legend of Grimrock... ;)
 

Mabster

New member
May 8, 2011
59
0
0
Paya Chin said:
meh. if it's anything like the ultima underworld fans said... it probably won't have much replay value after you've beaten. most of the appeal of dungeon crawlers is in the exploration and the sense of mystery surrounding your quest. once you've figured it out, it just gets boring. this need to have more randomly generated parts and item drops like in a rogue-like.
The level editor should be coming at some point [http://www.grimrock.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=14&t=2118], so there's a good chance to get loads more content in the future.

Azuaron said:
I do find it interesting that the best argument to come up against me is, "You get used to it!"
Thank you for the honor, but I recon my best bit was the one about the puzzles and combat. The grid mechanic means the whole game adheres to very clear rules, that obviously limits what it can do, but with these games, it optimizes what they do best.
 

Pipotchi

New member
Jan 17, 2008
958
0
0
I seem to have hit a bit of a wall with Grimrock (pun intended)

I got to level four and I like the puzzles but I just cant face looking at any more bricks
 

Atmos Duality

New member
Mar 3, 2010
8,473
0
0
Azuaron said:
You know, if this game was setup like Diablo (overhead click-smashing), Dragon Age (mobile over-head/-shoulder tactical), or Skyrim (first-person or third person low-tech) I'd probably be all over it. But there's a reason we no longer have grid-based RPGs.
The only reason I found for the bizarre grid system is that several of the puzzles rely on the controls being limited as they are. It also helps focus the player's attention on wall segments when looking for that last essential hidden switch; exposing the maximum surface area directly to the viewer.

Even so, it's still a bit awkward. Even Might and Magic 7 had essentially full rotational control; you weren't confined to cardinal directions.
 

JesterRaiin

New member
Apr 14, 2009
2,286
0
0
Azuaron said:
That amount of cognitive dissonance right next to itself just broke my brain.
Welcome to my reality. :]


bobstone said:
he stated as i read it, that people take time to make it, and people take time to play it, so it just cant be bad out right, however; you can have your own opinion that it is bad, while others have one that says it is good.
All i'm saying is that there's quite big amount of people that simply love such games - so they can't be considered "bad", unless it's his personal opinion (and unless i'm drunk i don't see "imho" anywhere in his posts) ;]


Tiamat666 said:
JesterRaiin said:
BTW : are you familiar with "Anvil of Dawn" game ?
Oh, now that I see the screenshots, I remember playing it on Dosbox once. It was pretty good and I cleared the first mayor level in some kind of castle. Then probably exams came up and I forgot about it. Would be a nice warm-up to Legend of Grimrock... ;)
To be honest i think that LoG is quite simple game in opposition to big hits of old. ;]
 

suitepee7

I can smell sausage rolls
Dec 6, 2010
1,273
0
0
Pigeon_Grenade said:
i wonder myself, how long the game Actually is?
i'm a total newcomer to grid-based gameplay, so i might suck in comparison, but it has kept me going for about 4-5 hours, and i'm around halfway. finding and solving all the secrets adds a lot of time to it, and different playstyles will add a couple of replays.

in short, worth the money if you can get into it.
 

Pigeon_Grenade

New member
May 29, 2008
1,163
0
0
suitepee7 said:
Pigeon_Grenade said:
i wonder myself, how long the game Actually is?
i'm a total newcomer to grid-based gameplay, so i might suck in comparison, but it has kept me going for about 4-5 hours, and i'm around halfway. finding and solving all the secrets adds a lot of time to it, and different playstyles will add a couple of replays.

in short, worth the money if you can get into it.
if one Replays the game, does it Randomize the Dungeon?
 

suitepee7

I can smell sausage rolls
Dec 6, 2010
1,273
0
0
Pigeon_Grenade said:
suitepee7 said:
Pigeon_Grenade said:
i wonder myself, how long the game Actually is?
i'm a total newcomer to grid-based gameplay, so i might suck in comparison, but it has kept me going for about 4-5 hours, and i'm around halfway. finding and solving all the secrets adds a lot of time to it, and different playstyles will add a couple of replays.

in short, worth the money if you can get into it.
if one Replays the game, does it Randomize the Dungeon?
not to my knowledge. some of the enemies might change, but the layout can't due to the nature of the puzzles
 

fenrizz

New member
Feb 7, 2009
2,790
0
0
Bought Grimrock on impulse as it only cost ?10 on Steam.
I've never played games like this before, but so far I have loved every minute it.

Hell, I might even pick some of the classics of the genre because of it.

The devs deserve all the success and prise they are now getting.
 

Cranky_Gamer

New member
Apr 8, 2011
12
0
0
bobstone said:
so off-topic quick like, would you use an in-game mapper ? assuming it had a good user interface appropriate to the games mapping needs? in the case of this game it would be simplicity it self to create and use I would think since it is grid based.
For games like this I would love that feature. I'm assuming at some point the developers will expand the game with another dungeon, if that happens I'm planning on playing it in old-school mode, but personally I would prefer to be able to open a blank map book in game and draw directly to that than having to keep a stack of graph paper on hand.
 

Baresark

New member
Dec 19, 2010
3,908
0
0
I love this game. I just don't understand why every thinks you are "exploiting the enemy AI" when you are kiting a monster around a grid. It was intended to be this way, you are not exploiting it. As you go on and face more and more enemies, you don't even have this choice sometimes. At the beginning, just standing around and facing the enemies can get you killed rather easily.