lets collectively lol @ these "I need feminism because..." pics

[Olas]

To avoid feeding the brewing shit-storm that this thread is inviting, I?m just going to give my opinion to each of these individually.

1. That seems more like a personal issue to work out than a social issue. Though it?s true that there?s a double standard in cross dressing that it?s considered acceptable for women to dress like men but ridiculous for the opposite.

2. Uuummm? what exactly is wrong with that? Presumably the man did something to earn that besides having male genitalia.

3. Again I feel this is just insecurity trying to use its own existence as flimsy evidence of sexism.

4. I have no idea what this one is talking about, can anyone else explain it?

5. Hey, if you want to do something unconventional and somewhat taboo with your body that?s fine. But that doesn?t mean the rest of the world is obligated to appreciate or support you for it. Negative reactions are a price you willingly accept when you choose to go up against cultural norms. Sure, it?s a free country and I could grow my hair out until I look like a hobo if I wanted, but the rest of the world should be free to look down on it if they choose and I shouldn't expect otherwise.

6. It?s not just some contrived standard, most men just naturally find larger women less attractive, and being overweight is usually unhealthy. So it does make sense that women would find being overweight undesirable, and therefore that being happy with an overweight body would be somewhat radical. It doesn?t mean you?re being judged only for your appearance, or that it?s wrong to take up a radical position like this. But the fact that it is radical isn?t evidence of sexism or anything abnormal.

7. Hahaha, ya, that?s a good one. Look, we should be free to pursue our own paths, and all knowledge should be valued beyond just its industrial utility, but it's being unrealistic to value a degree like this as equal to say an advanced medical degree. Besides, as an argument for feminism isn?t this using circular logic? The study of gender equality is necessary because it?s important?

8. Perhaps, but that might be a tough sell to the artistic community, especially when sexuality is an actual theme in some art. I?m not sure what the line is that separates appreciating the attractiveness of the human form and ?objectifying? people, but unless you can prove that ?female nudes? exist solely because guys just want to see titties, and not for any larger artistic purpose then I?m afraid you?re out of luck.

 

[Giftfromme]

Alright yes, these are from 4chan, but I've just linked the images, not the thread. The thread is full of the usual idiots, but yeah look at the pics.

"I don't agree with them, I'm just going to post the exact same topic with the exact same pictures that they did." From the MRA forum presumably.

Keep at it. Some day you'll turn The Escapist into 4chan and all will be well.

lol actually you are incorrect good sir! I only posted the pictures from the topic, and drew my own conclusions, not pulling other people's opinions straight from the thread on 4chan. Yes these pictures are snide and I chose them in order to make the thread less balanced than it could be. But the pictures are real, as in not photoshopped, so what does it matter what their source is? If another forum had those pics, they wouldn't be more legitimate than they are now.

Hence why we can collectively lol at these people in the pics that hold these extremely silly views. I didn't bring in every such picture which could in fact hold legitimate and properly thought out views on them. This is a one sided thread, not a comment on feminism in general.

As for the 4chan comments, I do agree most were silly but they were on point when bringing up and bundling these pictures together in a thread. That's all I took from the thread and drew my own conclusions to them.

Your last point "Keep at it. Some day you'll turn The Escapist into 4chan and all will be well" is extremely silly. I did say "The thread is full of the usual idiots" why would I want to turn Escapistmagazine into that kind of environment? You should give your posts more thought next time bro.

 

[Jayemsal]

Alright yes, these are from 4chan, but I've just linked the images, not the thread. The thread is full of the usual idiots, but yeah look at the pics.

"I don't agree with them, I'm just going to post the exact same topic with the exact same pictures that they did." From the MRA forum presumably.

Keep at it. Some day you'll turn The Escapist into 4chan and all will be well.

lol actually you are incorrect good sir! I only posted the pictures from the topic, and drew my own conclusions, not pulling other people's opinions straight from the thread on 4chan. Yes these pictures are snide and I chose them in order to make the thread less balanced than it could be. But the pictures are real, as in not photoshopped, so what does it matter what their source is? If another forum had those pics, they wouldn't be more legitimate than they are now.

Hence why we can collectively lol at these people in the pics that hold these extremely silly views. I didn't bring in every such picture which could in fact hold legitimate and properly thought out views on them. This is a one sided thread, not a comment on feminism in general.

As for the 4chan comments, I do agree most were silly but they were on point when bringing up and bundling these pictures together in a thread. That's all I took from the thread and drew my own conclusions to them.

Your last point "Keep at it. Some day you'll turn The Escapist into 4chan and all will be well" is extremely silly. I did say "The thread is full of the usual idiots" why would I want to turn Escapistmagazine into that kind of environment? You should give your posts more thought next time bro.

Your purpose for creating this thread was intentionally inflamatory, intended to attack other for their beliefs, simply because you disagree. You made no logical arguments against them, and made it clear that you only made this thread to mock others.

Shame on you.

 

[Giftfromme]

Hence why we can collectively lol at these people in the pics that hold these extremely silly views. I didn't bring in every such picture which could in fact hold legitimate and properly thought out views on them. This is a one sided thread, not a comment on feminism in general.

Give me a break. You started a thread with the intention - explicitly stated in the title - of mocking and ridiculing feminists, on a message board where feminism is routinely mocked and ridiculed. Admitting that the pictures were cherry-picked and claiming that you're not trying to bash feminism in general is just sad.

The fact that you start off your pathetic "comic commentary" with the word "retardness" pretty much says it all.

I'm out. With any luck this thread will die quickly, and if it doesn't then I'd rather not stick around and wait for the anti-feminist crowd to jump in and start guffawing and back-slapping each other.

Again incorrect. I pointed out what I thought of the pictures, and the intention was to laugh at these people. Are you talking about this board or 4chan where people routinely get mocked? Again, the source doesn't matter. Doesn't change the fact that these people hold these views. These aren't good views to hold as they only hold you back from your self development, as you look to an outside source to fix internal issues. I cannot contact these people individually to give them my interpretation, nor should I, as that would be preaching. Instead, I shall lol at them.

Fuck I don't know how to quote the last post, so I'll just write:
@Jayemsal, I did make my arguments actually if you read past where I wrote "4chan" on my post. These are all internal aspects and looking to an outside concept to fix that is incredibly silly. Using feminism in this way will not solve anything, and will only stop you from bettering yourself. I cannot change these people's views as I will never see them. But it's good (I think) to look at such views to ensure you don't develop such views yourself; you know what to avoid. Hence why we can collectively lol at them (I very much doubt any of the people in those pics will see my thread)

 

[dragonswarrior]

OP SNIPS

SNIPS

SNIPS

SNIPS

SNIPS

Okay!! Taking it from the top!!

#1- Feminism is all about creating equity between the genders, and a part of what feminism promotes (heavily) is smashing down old fashioned patriarchal stupid bullshit ideas of masculinity. Like feeling ashamed because you like things up your bum. So yea. Feminism actually has a lot to do with that.

#2- This is definitely the one that makes the least amount of sense. Even then, I can still see how it can make many people uncomfortable to have to be in spaces named for men who were VERY much part of the patriarchal oppressive society in the day, especially when in many ways we are still living in said patriarchal oppressive society. Who wants extra reminders of that shit? Still makes the least amount of sense.

#3- As Bloated Guppy pointed out, many men (and a lot of women) consider sexual harassment to be something positive, i.e "You should be glad men find you attractive enough to harass you." I completely agree with this woman. I need feminism to get rid of this bullshit too. There are just so many fucking problems with this way of thinking...

#4- Yea. That's a thing. Male, female, whatever, we live in a rape culture. And unless you are a genius on the level of Kruppe the Arcane you have contributed to it unknowingly. And the only way we are going to get rid of it is, yes, with the dreaded feminism. This world will never be a good one to live in until we finally get rid of the idea that one gender is "prey" for the other gender. Even when we try to mean it harmlessly.

#5- People should be able to do what they want with their bodies, and if it isn't harming anyone else, they should have nothing but support and acceptance. Where feminism comes in to this, is that women's bodies are FAR more controlled by the patriarchal male dominated society then men's bodies are. If a woman wants to grow out her armpit hair, the "positive" reactions she gets are still basically people telling her she shouldn't have done it, or that her first concern should be how men will react to it. And that's wrong. That's really really wrong. Especially when you realize that men can do whatever the fuck they want with their armpit hair, and society doesn't care.

#6- This is a tiny bit more difficult, because of the whole "healthy" thing, but even so she still has a very good point. See the above point number five about women's bodies being more controlled than men's. Women are expected to look a certain way for men, and when they don't, they are considered worthless. No. Really. That's why you can get pudgy male politicians and lawyers who are very successful, but you'll never see a pudgy woman successful in law or politics to the same degree. Ever. Look at the successful politicians and lawyers today. Look at the men and women. Look at how most of the men have fat, and most of the women look like they fight it constantly. THAT'S WRONG.

#7- Women who do gender studies are looked down upon as unnecessary or feminazis or etc or whatever. One need merely look at this thread to realize that we desperately need more people taking gender studies.

#8- Yep!! They totally are!! See... Here is the thing. Male bodies aren't objectified when artistically nude because we live in a society that does not objectify men. Female bodies are still objectified, even when it is clearly art, simply because of the society we live in. It's impossible not to objectify them more than the men. Because women are objectified. They are treated as objects and commodities by society. AND THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. AND THE ONLY WAY IT WILL CHANGE IS IF PEOPLE ARE FEMINISTS. I would like to see the day when male and female bodies can be in the nude without any objectification going on at all.

And there you go. That is why.

 

[Thaluikhain]

I don't know what feminism is, but I've heard it's scary, so, LOL?

It feels like it's just "HEY LOOK AT DEM STUPID FEMINISTS LOL". Just because some feminists are stupid and ridiculously extreme, doesn't make feminism stupid.

Then why are there so many of them and are feminists making no attempts to distance themselves from the sexist and hatefull ones?

Um...feminists aren't distancing themselves? You put two feminists together, they'll form 3 factions and fight over it.

 

[smithy_2045]

I don't understand. Where are the lolz? Thread title promised lolz.

I WANT MY LOLZ DAMMIT

 

[Risingblade]

Hahaha! This thread is fun! Let me join in!

Spoiler

Am I doing it right?

hey now laughing at feminism is all fun and all but don't go bringing rape in to dampen the mood D:

 

[Snownine]

Are the first two jokes or something? I mean seriously that second one is completely retarded.

 

[zehydra]

I don't need feminism.

What we do need though, is acceptance for stepping outside gender norms.

I like a couple of Feminism's ideas, but the whole movement itself is corrupted.

 

[Vault101]

Looking at point 6- I'm a bit skeptical that female standards of beauty are dictated by men.

I should think loving one's fat body would be a "radical concept" because a "fat body" denotes a state of ill health. You could just as easily say that loving one's gangrenous foot would be a radical concept, and you would be correct.

Yes, women put up with a lot of unreasonable beauty standards but keeping your weight inside healthy limits shouldn't be considered one of them. For anyone. Male or female.

Awww damn I'm opening up a whole other can of worms with that, aren't I? I'm sorry. I'm so sorry.

there is a difference between being "fat" and being natually a little big, not everyone is or will ever acheive a stick thin model body, bodies come in different shapes and sizes

back in the day being a little "voluptuous" was actually pretty attractive, it ment you were well fed and possibly upper class (just take a look at all those classical paintings) same with being pale when now a tan is considered atractive (when its kind of unhalthy in some ways)

 

[Beffudled Sheep_v1legacy]

have contributed to it unknowingly.

I would enjoy it if you listed a series of examples of how one would unknowingly contribute to rape culture.
I do not seek to debate I seek to learn since I don't like doing harmful things, especially without knowing.

 

[Evil Smurf]

I just need females because life would be boring without them.

 

[DevilWithaHalo]

I was being sporting in the other thread, not going to be so friendly here...

#1- Feminism is all about creating equity between the genders, and a part of what feminism promotes (heavily) is smashing down old fashioned patriarchal stupid bullshit ideas of masculinity. Like feeling ashamed because you like things up your bum. So yea. Feminism actually has a lot to do with that.

Your feelings... are your fucking problem. What he wants, and what you want, are universal social acceptance. This will never happen; it *cannot* happen in a free and democratic society. I whole heartedly reject feminism as an ideology that promotes thought control through emotional manipulation.

#2- This is definitely the one that makes the least amount of sense. Even then, I can still see how it can make many people uncomfortable to have to be in spaces named for men who were VERY much part of the patriarchal oppressive society in the day, especially when in many ways we are still living in said patriarchal oppressive society. Who wants extra reminders of that shit? Still makes the least amount of sense.

Let's take an example; the George Washington University. This guy lead the American Revolution against The Empire back in the day. He was so oppressive; he turned down the opportunity to become king of America because he believed in freedom and a democratic republic. Now you'll still sit there with a straight face and tell me he was an oppressor because he didn't do enough for women and that our society is an oppressive patriarchy? Is the entire basis for this oppression social expectation; that *women* share half the burden of perpetuating?

#3- As Bloated Guppy pointed out, many men (and a lot of women) consider sexual harassment to be something positive, i.e "You should be glad men find you attractive enough to harass you." I completely agree with this woman. I need feminism to get rid of this bullshit too. There are just so many fucking problems with this way of thinking...

Then don't think that way. Holy shit, that was a tough fix! What's next on the agenda?

Oh wait... you want to control other people's thinking, I keep forgetting that. Now do tell, how do you intend to ethically justify thought control? Because it hurts people's feelings?

#4- Yea. That's a thing. Male, female, whatever, we live in a rape culture. And unless you are a genius on the level of Kruppe the Arcane you have contributed to it unknowingly. And the only way we are going to get rid of it is, yes, with the dreaded feminism. This world will never be a good one to live in until we finally get rid of the idea that one gender is "prey" for the other gender. Even when we try to mean it harmlessly.

Except that there are two fundamental and important flaws behind rape culture theory...

A. Rape is a crime. Now no doubt you'll attempt to counter this will various "facts" that have been proven to be misrepresented over and over again feminism lost a great deal of integrity. Something along the lines that most rapists aren't jailed (ignoring the preponderance of evidence required for a conviction in our innocent until proven guilty legal process) or that the social stigma prevents victims from seeking help, which leads to the next issue...

B. Rape is universally despised as an immoral act. Even rapists know this. Making a joke about it doesn't affect it anymore that making a Jewish oven joke affects the holocaust. Humor is the human condition overcoming and commanding a great injustice dealt to them.

Now you might snap back some other retorts that I'm familiar with and simply don't care to get into, but using your asinine logic; we live in a murder culture, a genocide culture, a pedophile culture, and a culture culminating every single atrocity you can fathom. So would you please stop contributing to infanticide culture by ignoring that it's women committing 100% of the decision involving bringing another person into this world? (That was an abortion joke by the way; dammit... I just contributed to abortion culture, gah!)

#5- People should be able to do what they want with their bodies, and if it isn't harming anyone else, they should have nothing but support and acceptance. Where feminism comes in to this, is that women's bodies are FAR more controlled by the patriarchal male dominated society then men's bodies are. If a woman wants to grow out her armpit hair, the "positive" reactions she gets are still basically people telling her she shouldn't have done it, or that her first concern should be how men will react to it. And that's wrong. That's really really wrong. Especially when you realize that men can do whatever the fuck they want with their armpit hair, and society doesn't care.

People can and do whatever the fuck they want with their bodies. But they do NOT deserve support or acceptance from society as a whole for it. Society can accept what they did by shrugging their shoulders, but that's all they should be required to do. Aside from the abortion issue (which is a whole bag of worms itself), exactly how is the patriarchal male dominated society controlling women's bodies? By having beauty trends that change with the current social paradigm? Did you know during the Great Recession larger women were deemed more attractive? Did you know that the negro culture supports women with bigger booties?

I don't like hairy arm pits on women, and this wonderful country allows me the right and privilege to maintain that opinion. You, in your infinite wisdom, seek to rob me of expressing my individual tastes that happen to conflict with other individuals world views. I'm allowed to say; "I don't like it." She isn't entitled to positive reactions for everything she does from everyone who she tells. That's bullshit.

#6- This is a tiny bit more difficult, because of the whole "healthy" thing, but even so she still has a very good point. See the above point number five about women's bodies being more controlled than men's. Women are expected to look a certain way for men, and when they don't, they are considered worthless. No. Really. That's why you can get pudgy male politicians and lawyers who are very successful, but you'll never see a pudgy woman successful in law or politics to the same degree. Ever. Look at the successful politicians and lawyers today. Look at the men and women. Look at how most of the men have fat, and most of the women look like they fight it constantly. THAT'S WRONG.

Equating physical attraction to political power; now who's being oppressive to women? (Don't think I didn't notice your inner turmoil in accepting her health standards) Both sexes have social beauty standards. At any rate, Sonia Sotomayor seems like a woman with some meat on her bones. Elena Kagan certainly has some girth. And of course, everyone's favorite; Oprah! Granted she fluctuates a lot. But I find it rather odd you don't seem to account that women are more critical over each other than men are. Did this little factoid not come up in your women's studies?

#7- Women who do gender studies are looked down upon as unnecessary or feminazis or etc or whatever. One need merely look at this thread to realize that we desperately need more people taking gender studies.

What contribution do they represent to society? A self propagating liberal arts degree? It's valid insomuch she bought it with her own money, but not nearly as valid as a degree in... oh, I don't know; social psychology, criminal law, mathematics, nursing, engineering, media arts, etc.

Here's what tickles my fancy; women who go into gender studies to learn about how there aren't enough women earning degrees in male dominated fields. How's that for a fucking head scratcher?

#8- Yep!! They totally are!! See... Here is the thing. Male bodies aren't objectified when artistically nude because we live in a society that does not objectify men. Female bodies are still objectified, even when it is clearly art, simply because of the society we live in. It's impossible not to objectify them more than the men. Because women are objectified. They are treated as objects and commodities by society. AND THAT NEEDS TO CHANGE. AND THE ONLY WAY IT WILL CHANGE IS IF PEOPLE ARE FEMINISTS. I would like to see the day when male and female bodies can be in the nude without any objectification going on at all.

Ok, in what crazy screwed up school have you ever actually taken a nude drawing class? I've been in them, and never at any point were the models (both male and female) ever objectified as anything beyond the subject of the artwork being practiced. Quite in fact, the beginning of each class consisted of a brief understanding that people would be naked, the artists would treat this as serious and anyone found to be acting at any moment immature, or mentally fapping to the nude model would be thrown out of the class and *never* welcome back.

The very basis for your argument hinges on the difference of the models anatomy. A female model disrobes; students of both sexes draw her. A male model disrobes; students of both sexes draw him. So the difference is because... tits?

.../sigh

So, let's recap here...
1. You disagree with current social concepts of masculinity. You didn't actually discuss what they were, but "their bullshit". And feminism will fix this, again not actually discussing how.
2. Men are oppressive because we live in an oppressive patriarchy. And buildings being named after men make people uncomfortable because they helped build and maintain the oppressive patriarchy. (By the way, can you name me a legal right that men possess that women do not? Just curious.)
3. Because some people believe that sexually harassment is positive; we need to use feminism to make sure no one thinks this way. And how pray tell does feminism intend on doing this?
4. Rape culture. Feminism will fix rape culture by... making sure people can't joke about rape? By the way, you need to stop supporting rape culture; ok?
5. People should always get positive reactions to everything they do because the patriarchy controls women's bodies. I assume feminism will make a law that insures I'm required to high five people that choose to stop bathing?
6. Men control women's beauty standards, so women should be fat and get into politics. Will feminism dictate the weight requirements for political office?
7. I disagree with every single one of your positions, so we will use feminism to recruit more people into the program whom I will eventually disagree with; brilliant!
8. Female nudes are objectified because some guys like fapping to porn. So... feminism will ban porn? (I imagine you are one of those porn hating feminists) Or feminism will ban nude art?

Tell me, how are the "ladies" over at RadFemHub these days? They ever figure out that biological solution to the problem yet?

have contributed to it unknowingly.

I would enjoy it if you listed a series of examples of how one would unknowingly contribute to rape culture.
I do not seek to debate I seek to learn since I don't like doing harmful things, especially without knowing.

Trust me, you really don't. But if you'd like to read through some bullshit, you can start with http://everydayfeminism.com/2013/01/five-ways-rape-culture-exists-unnoticed/ and then move on from there. Here are some wonderfull bullshit solutions feminism has proposed as well; http://www.thenation.com/article/172643/ten-things-end-rape-culture?rel=emailNation#

 

[The Unworthy Gentleman]

I mean, just... What's the point? The purpose of this thread is literally point and laugh at people who think differently to you? About feminism of all things? Yeah, that'll end well.

Thinking differently is fine, as long as it's not stupidity or blaming "the patriarchy" for your own self confidence issues and things that aren't even sexist. These aren't even the worst of it, there are entire blogs that encourage people to post this stuff, regardless of whether it's sexist or not. As long as you're a woman or a white knight expressing misandry you'll get on and have the support of everyone that subscribes. It's hate and nothing more.

OT: Yeah, these aren't even a small minority anymore. There are thousands of these images circulating that have nothing to do with any actual sexism and hide under the guise of feminism. These people can't win anything though, they have no real aims; they'll eventually tire themselves out.

 

[debtcollector]

Not gonna lie, I don't see how most of these are unreasonable. The first one is a bit personal and fetishistic, the second is completely ridiculous, but the rest I find perfectly fine (maybe not the unknowing rape culture one). I fail to see why these people having different views than you--not even significantly radical views--should inspire such derision. I get that people don't like other people telling them how to change, but have you ever considered that they may in fact be right?