Let's Talk About Booze:

[Tireseas_v1legacy]

Also, as a far more controversial opinion, people who drink beer but who do not enjoy really hoppy beer should just admit what kind of people they really are and switch to the sweet girly type drinks.

...the kind of people who can tell a quality beer from obnoxious hipster microbrews made by people who don't know a grain bill from a sewer bill?

[Riffing more on the tendency of brewers to go overboard on bittering hops to compensate for poor grains, subpar grain bills, and/or deficiencies in their process, or those who add hops too early or treat bittering hops as if they're aromatics, than I am people who like hoppy beers. No matter how bad their palates may be.]

I've heard stories about brewers, pissed off about how popular more-bitter IPAs are, actively trying to make an excessively bitter brew just to spite those customers without taste. Apparently, they sold out of the entire batch.

But, yeah, I dislike IPAs, probably half because my dad likes them and that's what he stocked 90% in the fridge, with my other's stouts (AKA a loaf of bread in a bottle) making up the other 10%. Say what you will, I rather like the Mexican import beers.

 

[jademunky]

So I just need to notify everyone of this because I find it to be the funniest thing ever.

There is a Swedish drink called "Rekorderlig" that tastes exactly like something someone who has never been to the country assumes it would taste like. (Like actual Swedish Berries candy!)

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

I've heard stories about brewers, pissed off about how popular more-bitter IPAs are, actively trying to make an excessively bitter brew just to spite those customers without taste. Apparently, they sold out of the entire batch.

The funny thing is, hopheads and hotheads are practically identical. They treat their respective "food flavor rating" as a status symbol, believing the higher you go the superior you are, but the reality is you're doing that at the exclusion of anything remotely resembling actual flavor and just doing it to say you did it. I've had those million-plus scoville hot sauces, and frankly they don't really taste like anything you'd actually eat to enjoy. Just like these nasty-ass super-hoppy beers.

What's truly funny, is when a hophead talks about IBU's and doesn't realize it's all in relation to the grain bill, specific gravity, the yeast strain used, the fermentation temperature, and the combination of bittering versus aromatic hops. Pay attention and you'll catch 'em talking up their refined palettes and expertise; they'll be sitting there drinking 60-IBU horse piss and tut-tutting people drinking porters and stouts with twice or three times the IBU's without even a hint of bitterness. The reason it tastes like you're drinking a pine cone smoothie, is because you're actually drinking horse piss with nothing to balance the bitterness, and the hops are there to mask the fact you're drinking horse piss.

That's actually the original intent behind IPA's, for chrissake. It all boiled down to making a beer that could be cheaply mass produced and survive long sea voyages to export market, to maximize profit. Hops aren't just there for flavor, they're a preservative.

Brit brewers looked at stock ales -- expensive, high-gravity, hoppy ales that were brewed with the intent of cask conditioning -- and realized the grain bill (almost all pale malted barley) was already cheap. From there, they could brew low gravity wort and replace the aromatic hops with bittering hops to make it even cheaper. Ales are already top-fermented at warm temperature, which made for a fast and cheap primary fermentation process, and thus ideal. Once out of primary fermentation, the ale would cask condition during the voyage, making for a beer with a very high rate of production and fast turnover rate.

None of that means IPA's are necessarily bad...but the prevalence of bittering hops definitely allowed brewers to produce on the cheap without drinkers being the wiser. The more important thing by far was getting their product to market, and IPA's were ideal for that end because they were so hoppy. Ironic, because IPA's got a "reputation" for quality and strength due to domestic popularity: stock ales and high-gravity ales produced in that style for domestic consumption, began being retroactively referred to as IPA's.

 

[Agema]

But, yeah, I dislike IPAs, probably half because my dad likes them and that's what he stocked 90% in the fridge, with my other's stouts (AKA a loaf of bread in a bottle) making up the other 10%. Say what you will, I rather like the Mexican import beers.

Mexican beer is pretty good. Well, not so much Sol & Corona (although I sort of quite like Corona) but stuff like the Dos Equis and Modelo. I understand them having done well in the USA as the USA potentially has the worst mass-market beers in the world (although it's also always had some smaller breweries putting out better stuff, and of course did really well with the craft beer revolution more recently).

 

[Baffle]

I had Four Loko once and it was amazing. I think it was cherry flavour or something.

 

[Frezzato]

I've heard stories about brewers, pissed off about how popular more-bitter IPAs are, actively trying to make an excessively bitter brew just to spite those customers without taste. Apparently, they sold out of the entire batch.

The funny thing is, hopheads and hotheads are practically identical. They treat their respective "food flavor rating" as a status symbol, believing the higher you go the superior you are, but the reality is you're doing that at the exclusion of anything remotely resembling actual flavor and just doing it to say you did it. I've had those million-plus scoville hot sauces, and frankly they don't really taste like anything you'd actually eat to enjoy. Just like these nasty-ass super-hoppy beers.

What's truly funny, is when a hophead talks about IBU's and doesn't realize it's all in relation to the grain bill, specific gravity, the yeast strain used, the fermentation temperature, and the combination of bittering versus aromatic hops. Pay attention and you'll catch 'em talking up their refined palettes and expertise; they'll be sitting there drinking 60-IBU horse piss and tut-tutting people drinking porters and stouts with twice or three times the IBU's without even a hint of bitterness. The reason it tastes like you're drinking a pine cone smoothie, is because you're actually drinking horse piss with nothing to balance the bitterness, and the hops are there to mask the fact you're drinking horse piss.

That's actually the original intent behind IPA's, for chrissake. It all boiled down to making a beer that could be cheaply mass produced and survive long sea voyages to export market, to maximize profit. Hops aren't just there for flavor, they're a preservative.

Brit brewers looked at stock ales -- expensive, high-gravity, hoppy ales that were brewed with the intent of cask conditioning -- and realized the grain bill (almost all pale malted barley) was already cheap. From there, they could brew low gravity wort and replace the aromatic hops with bittering hops to make it even cheaper. Ales are already top-fermented at warm temperature, which made for a fast and cheap primary fermentation process, and thus ideal. Once out of primary fermentation, the ale would cask condition during the voyage, making for a beer with a very high rate of production and fast turnover rate.

None of that means IPA's are necessarily bad...but the prevalence of bittering hops definitely allowed brewers to produce on the cheap without drinkers being the wiser. The more important thing by far was getting their product to market, and IPA's were ideal for that end because they were so hoppy. Ironic, because IPA's got a "reputation" for quality and strength due to domestic popularity: stock ales and high-gravity ales produced in that style for domestic consumption, began being retroactively referred to as IPA's.

Wow. That was very informative. And way better than what I would have said, which is IPAs are garbage.

This isn't to say that I don't enjoy hoppiness once in a while. I think Weihenstephaner Kristall has a good flavor of hops - within reason.

Strange to think that, when I was a kid, I remember hearing on TV or something somewhere that certain adults enjoyed beer "for the taste", which I always assumed was bullshit. C'mooooon, I remember seeing adults at parties and barbecues drinking shitty American beer by the dozen. Even as a kid I knew that adults needed some sort of escape from the everyday. But as it turns out, I do enjoy an adult beverage once in a while (every day) and for that my choice is beer. Tried everything else, I'm good with beer. And while the buzz is nice, it really does boil down to the taste for me. Not trendy (literal) garbage like IPAs, nor alcohol content by volume. I think that sort of posturing is for frat boys.

I'm a huge sugar fiend, but I don't really like soda. I like a good beer made under the oft-used schtick of being brewed by "the oldest brewery in so-and-so", AKA people using recipes (or a building) hundreds of years old. I think those Europeans might be onto something.

 

[Xprimentyl]

... the USA potentially has the worst mass-market beers in the world...

Oh yeah?!? Well? our beer bellies are bigger!! YEEEEEEE-HAW!!! Amber waves, baby!! NASCAR!! Build the wall!! M.A.G.A.!!

I had Four Loko once and it was amazing. I think it was cherry flavour or something.

HA!! Assuming (well, ?hoping? really) that you?re being facetious, my girlfriend?s brother?s girlfriend legitimately hadn?t heard of Four Loko until a few weeks ago. She showed up to our annual river trip with a half dozen of them, excited like she?d brought some new and exciting gift for us. ?Have you heard o Four Loko??? Yeah? a decade and a half ago, and it sucked then too. The only time to be excited to see Four Loko is when one washes up on the shore of the desert island you?ve been stranded on for months and you can no longer stomach the taste of your own piss.

 

[Xprimentyl]

At the behest of my father (a native Panamanian,) I bought a bottle of Seco Herrarano, a Panamanian sugar cane rum. I?m not a rum expert, but it made the smoothest rum and cokes I?ve personally ever had; I had several of them without every really tasting the alcohol. Theeeeeen, I went to bed with my shoes on.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

Wow. That was very informative. And way better than what I would have said, which is IPAs are garbage.

No problem. IPA's, more than most other types of beer, have a really interesting history and it's cool to see how brewing methods and styles evolved out of necessity or trend. The funny thing is, traditional English IPA's -- that is to say, cask conditioned, low gravity, hoppy ales -- are actually really good, especially if the brewer takes a note from the stock ale notebook and replaces some or most of the bittering hops with aromatics since they're brewing for flavor and not preservation. They taste nothing like the crap you find nowadays marketed as IPA's, and that's in every conceivable way for the better.

It's really hard to find traditional IPA's on the market for this reason. But, funny enough, Sam Adams of all brewing companies actually made a traditional English-style IPA that was very comparable, but I'm not sure if they even make it any more. It was called latitude something. The ones they have on their website are American IPA's and not to be humored. When I actually start doing my own brewing, one of the beers I plan to do other than saisons are traditional IPA's, and I'd be absolutely willing to cask condition them for the sake of accuracy and flavor.

The thing about American lagers and pilsners, and just American macrobrews in general, is everyone loves to shit on them. It's beer snobbery 101, and everyone goes through the phase. And, yeah, if you're going to sit down to a decent dinner or are looking for a good session beer, practically anything else is preferable. But if it's hot outside and you've been busting your ass at work, doing yard work or home maintenance, or even if you're outside grilling with friends or family, nothing's going to taste better than a goddamn Budweiser, Miller, or Coors.

 

[Agema]

The thing about American lagers and pilsners, and just American macrobrews in general, is everyone loves to shit on them. It's beer snobbery 101, and everyone goes through the phase. And, yeah, if you're going to sit down to a decent dinner or are looking for a good session beer, practically anything else is preferable. But if it's hot outside and you've been busting your ass at work, doing yard work or home maintenance, or even if you're outside grilling with friends or family, nothing's going to taste better than a goddamn Budweiser, Miller, or Coors.

Virtually all big mass market beers deserve to be shit on.

Sure, you've had a long, hot, busy day and you want something to quench your thirst that's alcoholic, they'll do. But the reality is that these beers either got big because they were cheap, or they got big by other means and the manufacturer started making them cheaper. A great deal of how to make a beer lager cheap is to cut corners on the things that give it taste - like the ageing time. They can say all they like that with more modern yeast varieties they only need ~20 days instead of 60+, but I don't believe a damn word of it.

 

[Eacaraxe_v1legacy]

...or they got big by other means...

Emphasis on "other means". The major macrobreweries are what they are because they managed to remain in business during Prohibition by diversifying their product portfolio, or changing production to small beers that were still legal under the Volstead Act. Once Prohibition ended, they were in position to resume producing beer immediately and subsequently cornered the market. Ice cream and dairy were common products, but Aneuser-Busch stuck to small beers and Coors actually turned themselves into a ceramics manufacturer. I can't remember which at the moment, but one of them actually transitioned into a mail-order brewing kit manufacturer, which the Volstead Act couldn't touch which really pissed off the racists.

The history of home brewing during Prohibition is absolutely fascinating, and deserves a lot more discussion than it gets.

 

[Agema]

...or they got big by other means...

Emphasis on "other means". The major macrobreweries are what they are because they managed to remain in business during Prohibition by diversifying their product portfolio, or changing production to small beers that were still legal under the Volstead Act. Once Prohibition ended, they were in position to resume producing beer immediately and subsequently cornered the market. Ice cream and dairy were common products, but Aneuser-Busch stuck to small beers and Coors actually turned themselves into a ceramics manufacturer. I can't remember which at the moment, but one of them actually transitioned into a mail-order brewing kit manufacturer, which the Volstead Act couldn't touch which really pissed off the racists.

The history of home brewing during Prohibition is absolutely fascinating, and deserves a lot more discussion than it gets.

Well, I'm thinking partly of Europe too: although I'd probably take a Heineken over a Budweiser, it's a difference of inches rather than yards. The USA is not exceptional in the sense that shite, mass-produced lagers tend to dominate the market. In the UK, for instance, you're looking at junk like Stella Artois, Carling and Fosters. Kronenberg 1664 in France is not a great beer, nor Italy's Peroni, and so on.

 

[Baffle]

A great deal of how to make a beer lager cheap is to cut corners on the things that give it taste - like the ageing time.

And they use rice in the brewing, which is cheaper and detracts from the flavour (IIRC, rice adds body and ABV to a beer but no real flavour, where barley would add all three but costs more). Increasing the ABV with sugar only makes a really thin beer that just doesn't feel right.

 

[Agema]

A great deal of how to make a beer lager cheap is to cut corners on the things that give it taste - like the ageing time.

And they use rice in the brewing, which is cheaper and detracts from the flavour (IIRC, rice adds body and ABV to a beer but no real flavour, where barley would add all three but costs more). Increasing the ABV with sugar only makes a really thin beer that just doesn't feel right.

Reminds me of one of the larger craft brewers - can't remember which one. It sold out to some soulless alcohols megacorp like InBev, and the head brewer agreed to stay on as long on the promise the new manangement didn't fuck with the beers. Sure, they promised him - no interference. Couple months after the takeover, he was told to replace a load of the ingredients with cheaper alternatives and drop the brewing time... and promptly quit.

I think a lot of small and medium breweriess love their beer. Quality, tradition etc. really matters to them, and I guess that's a lot of their selling point. The big beer companies don't see beer as an enjoyable potable product for flavour, they see brands to be aggressively marketed. It's the easiest thing in the world to buy an admired beer/brewery, debase it for quick sales until its quality reputation is bust, and it doesn't really matter because they'll just buy out a new indy beer company to replace it. If you loved that beer, tough shit, it's gone and gone forever.

I suppose the upside is that there will always be new beers, plenty of variety, and look hard enough you'll find something similar. On the other hand, there are pints I love and that sell well enough to deserve survival, and I don't want them eliminated and wasted time finding a replacement just because some wanker who couldn't care less about good beer wants quick profits.

 

[Frezzato]

...Kronenberg 1664 in France is not a great beer...

Oh wow, really? I like a Kronenbourg once in a while. When I first tried one I realized Kronenbourg tasted the way I had always imagined a beer would taste when I was a child, watching adults drink. I had no concept of beer at the time but I knew it wouldn't be sweet, nor salty. Something in-between.

I called it 'the khaki pants of beers' because it wasn't distinctive and went with everything.

 

[Palindromemordnilap_v1legacy]

At the behest of my father (a native Panamanian,) I bought a bottle of Seco Herrarano, a Panamanian sugar cane rum. I?m not a rum expert, but it made the smoothest rum and cokes I?ve personally ever had; I had several of them without every really tasting the alcohol. Theeeeeen, I went to bed with my shoes on.

Always on the look out for a decent rum, have to keep on eye out. White rum or dark?

 

[Xprimentyl]

At the behest of my father (a native Panamanian,) I bought a bottle of Seco Herrarano, a Panamanian sugar cane rum. I?m not a rum expert, but it made the smoothest rum and cokes I?ve personally ever had; I had several of them without every really tasting the alcohol. Theeeeeen, I went to bed with my shoes on.

Always on the look out for a decent rum, have to keep on eye out. White rum or dark?

It's a white rum.

 

[CM156_v1legacy]

Uncommon in my chosen profession, I'm a complete teatotaler.

I did once enjoy a nice, sweet, New York riesling.

 

[Xprimentyl]

When the YouTube algorithm knows you better than most of people in your life and suggests videos that combine your love of videogames and booze.

 

[stroopwafel]

Ah, booze, glorious booze. Rarely have I met a one I don?t like.

For hard liquors, I?m a vodka and gin guy, favoring to mix them with soda or tonic with a squeeze of lime, but I also like the occasional whisky and 7-Up. For beers, I drink it just infrequently enough that I?m a cheap date; Budweiser or Bud Light get the job done. But when I?m feeling fancy, Stella Artois, Yuengling (which has limited availability in the northeastern US) and Louisiana?s infamous Abita. I steer clear of most IPAs and anything overly-hoppy. For wine, gimme a cabernet? or any wine from the cellar.

Liquor I dislike? Most schnapps, especially cinnamon schnapps; not a fan of the sweet stuff. But the worst liquor? Jagermeister. Jesus, that shit is evil; tastes like something dredge from the very bottom of a septic tank in hell and thrice filtered through sasquatch?s pubic hair immediately following a 5 mile jog during which he was wearing plastic underwear. I think that?s why it?s generally popular with 20-something-year-old bro-dudes; along with its ?acquired? taste, recovering from the brain damage after ingesting copious amounts of it is a rite of passage.

Agreed on the Jager. Absolutely disgusting. Might as well be drinking liquified potpourri after it?s been dipped in ever tar pool in Black Gulch and The Rotten pissed and farted out the remains of a millennia worth of fallen undead souls in it.

Myself, I?ve always been a bourbon fan and am not very picky about it, but also enjoy a few microbrews. Two Hearted is usually a go-to when out to dinner.

Oh no I absolutely love Jagermeister. To me it tastes like syrupy spice nut. A great drink in winter with a strong coffee.