Letting go.

[Mossberg Shotty]

(...)

(...)

You weren't fishing for compliments, at least that's not how it came across to me, but you're welcome. I think philosophy serves many purposes, just because our ability to change ourselves are limited (that's my philosophical opinion) doesn't mean it's only good for law-making.

When I said neither seems appealing, naturally I was just talking from my point of view. No matter who you are, you can't please everyone. But I think I've struck a nice balance, the people I like seem to like me back and the people who don't I've managed to stop caring about that. Maybe you could do the same? We'll call it 'secret option 3'.

You don't seem like an unlikeable person, though I can't possibly know for sure, but I do have a hard time following you train of thought. Like that last statement, I don't know what you mean by that.

EDIT: Wait, let me scratch that. After reading through the entire thread, really all I see is you being sarcastic and vindictive towards the people who are trying to offer you advice. Which you asked for. How are you any different than the people you're condemning? If you were in front of me right now, I would be giving you the look of disapproval that you so fear.

No, please, there's no sarcasm. Of course, I could be sarcastic even when I say that. It's impossible to tell whether I'm sarcastic or not. Maybe I've been laughing this whole time, at how people take this seriously while I don't care at all. But it's not like that! I can't give you anything but my word. There's is no sarcasm! It's possible that I'm not being as grateful as I should be. I should listen to you now. If you say I'm being vindictive then that's probably true, it wouldn't surprise me. It's not my intention, though. I'm sorry! Since this is a forum, I have time to think before I respond, so I should. I could have just said "yeah, yeah, I'm a bad person, I know, bye bye forever.." but I didn't because I want your approval. I know I should be careful not to open myself completely on the internet, but this has been more than interesting reading. It's been really helpful. Secret option 3 sounds healthy, sustainable, reasonable. I'll try to try it, at least.

About those two lines: "It's time for excuses and apologies. That's enough." and "Time to explain myself. Satisfied."
You shouldn't have had to read them. It was very disrespectful of me to include them. They're neither useful nor interesting. It's just that, sometimes I feel the need to make excuses, apologies or to explain myself but the most important part, for me, is that you know that I know that excuses, apologies and explanations are required. That's why I was satisfied with just saying "Time to explain myself.".

Despite these misunderstandings, you're good at understanding what I'm saying. Sometimes it's takes long before I get to the point. Listening to me requires patience because I speak as if everyone has all the time in the world to listen to me. I'm glad you've been patient enough. Thanks!

There's a quote by Ludwig Wittgenstein about misunderstandings. He basically says that misunderstandings has been in the way of human development, more so than wars or diseases. He's really good with words, though, and it would be great if I could find the original translation. Do you know of it?

I'm sorry if I mistook your straight-talk for sarcasm, it's near impossible to tell over text. I know I've fallen into that trap more times than once myself, so I should be more aware of it. You shouldn't crave my approval though, or anyone else's for that matter. If a stranger approached you on the street and told you that you're perfect, that wouldn't make you happy. The opinion that matters the most is your own, so you just have to bring yourself around to that way of thinking. Seeking the validation of others is a fools errand, I know because I've spent enough years doing it.

About the lines I didn't understand, I didn't take them to mean anything offensive or anything like that, I was just a bit confused. I use cryptic language all the time, so I'm guilty of the same thing. But I get what you're saying now, making excuses is just human nature.

It's funny you should mention that, because patience is something I've never really been good at, and I should work on it. I obviously should've used a bit more when I was talking earlier. But hey, we're all far from perfect, so hopefully that can be overlooked. When it comes to becoming a better person, there's hope for us all. The only reason I even recognize this kind of behavior is because I spent years doing the same thing myself.

No, it doesn't ring a bell. The only Ludwig Wittgenstein quote I'm familiar with is about language. Something like "Language is part of our organism, and no less complicated." I believe. Still, seems strangely relevant.

 

[skywolfblue]

What does it matter what we accomplish in life? I'm sorry if you've been asked that a thousand times before, but it's the first time I'm asking.

Maybe I could pretend that there is such a thing as a real purpose. Maybe I should choose to believe. What do you believe in? (I wont try to criticize you.)

Thanks for your reply!

What does it matter?
Everything!
Mere existence isn't the same as "living".
Why live life if there is no point? Why not punch out early? Why spend 80 years of work, toil, and suffering without some purpose that made it all worthwhile.

You don't need to pretend, purpose is real.
Newton did not devote his life to physics by "pretending" to have a purpose, no, his purpose was very real.
Martin Luther King likewise did not devote his life to equal rights by "pretending".
They took something, and "made it so" it became very real, and dramatically altered the state of our world today for the better.

I believe we are all characters in the greatest story ever told. Each and every one of us will be remembered, for every action, for every thought.
I know my purpose for certain, to love God, and love others. Following in the footsteps of someone who loved me so much he died in my place.

 

[geeky_demon]

I like the way mip0 thinks. Have you considered that perhaps a social bit of your brain is trying to build rapport with these people - and its those bits making you feel ashamed for failing to impress the people and build a relationship - meanwhile there are other (contradictory) bits that don't care. It could be you aren't consciously aware of the "rapport-building" thing your brain is doing until you feel ashamed. Remember that the brain is doing all kinds of stuff sometimes unconsciously and sometimes consciously, and that a lot of stuff is 'hard-wired' in thanks to millions of years of evolution such as the drive people have to build relationships with other people (and therefore increase one's [genes'] survivability.)

Look up the 'modular theory of mind' for more

Anyway I wouldn't worry too much about it, if I was you; you're just being human by the sounds of it.

 

[Vault101]

This thread is really surreal, but I can't put my finger on why...

I know....mabue its just cause I'm tried

[quote/]Also, narcissism hasn't been an issue on this site in years.[/quote]
that was untill I came back...the sites biggest narcisit

by the way if anyones wondering where I've been the past few days I went to Melbourne, the cultural capital of Australia and I saw wicked [sub/][joking/]but not really[/joking][/sub]

 

[mip0]

(...)

(...)

(...)

(...)

I'm sorry if I mistook your straight-talk for sarcasm, it's near impossible to tell over text. I know I've fallen into that trap more times than once myself, so I should be more aware of it. You shouldn't crave my approval though, or anyone else's for that matter. If a stranger approached you on the street and told you that you're perfect, that wouldn't make you happy. The opinion that matters the most is your own, so you just have to bring yourself around to that way of thinking. Seeking the validation of others is a fools errand, I know because I've spent enough years doing it.

About the lines I didn't understand, I didn't take them to mean anything offensive or anything like that, I was just a bit confused. I use cryptic language all the time, so I'm guilty of the same thing. But I get what you're saying now, making excuses is just human nature.

It's funny you should mention that, because patience is something I've never really been good at, and I should work on it. I obviously should've used a bit more when I was talking earlier. But hey, we're all far from perfect, so hopefully that can be overlooked. When it comes to becoming a better person, there's hope for us all. The only reason I even recognize this kind of behavior is because I spent years doing the same thing myself.

No, it doesn't ring a bell. The only Ludwig Wittgenstein quote I'm familiar with is about language. Something like "Language is part of our organism, and no less complicated." I believe. Still, seems strangely relevant.

Ah, good. It was all hanging in a very thin thread there for a while.

"Seeking the validation of others is a fools errand, I know because I've spent enough years doing it."
During those years, did anyone ever tell you what you're telling me now? If so, what did you think? When I hear "Seeking the validation of other is a fools errand" there's a voice in my head saying "Well isn't that a nice excuse..". If you had such a voice in your head, how did you silence it?

"The only reason I even recognize this kind of behavior is because I spent years doing the same thing myself."
This is very reassuring, because you are definitely not like me now. You really have moved on. Was it gradual or immediate? I'm sorry if I'm repeating the same questions but this is essential.

I really hope you're getting something out of this, other than my gratitude.

 

[mip0]

What does it matter what we accomplish in life? I'm sorry if you've been asked that a thousand times before, but it's the first time I'm asking.

Maybe I could pretend that there is such a thing as a real purpose. Maybe I should choose to believe. What do you believe in? (I wont try to criticize you.)

Thanks for your reply!

What does it matter?
Everything!
Mere existence isn't the same as "living".
Why live life if there is no point? Why not punch out early? Why spend 80 years of work, toil, and suffering without some purpose that made it all worthwhile.

You don't need to pretend, purpose is real.
Newton did not devote his life to physics by "pretending" to have a purpose, no, his purpose was very real.
Martin Luther King likewise did not devote his life to equal rights by "pretending".
They took something, and "made it so" it became very real, and dramatically altered the state of our world today for the better.

I believe we are all characters in the greatest story ever told. Each and every one of us will be remembered, for every action, for every thought.
I know my purpose for certain, to love God, and love others. Following in the footsteps of someone who loved me so much he died in my place.

Thank you for coming here!

"Why not punch out early?"
1. It's not that easy.
2. Killing oneself is selfish. That's not coming from me, though, and I don't know what to think of it. Sometimes I agree with it, sometimes I think that those who say it are the selfish ones.
3. I think many, maybe even most people, live without feeling that they have any real purpose in life. It's not that bad. Without a purpose, without an objective, I can relax. It is as you said: "It's easy to be apathetic. It's hard to be good".

I said I wouldn't criticize your beliefs. I can't keep myself from questioning them. Because if you can defend your beliefs from me, then I will have found many of the answers that I didn't think existed. In fact, this should be interesting to a lot of people. It's a bit strange to meet you here, on a site called "escapistmagazine". But I shouldn't pretend that I know you.

Here's a big problem of mine:
Did the actions of Martin Luther King result in an increase in the total amount of happiness experienced by humans from the time of his actions and onward. (I am also asking whether it decreased the total amount of unhappiness, pain.) (I use happiness as a collective term for all positive feelings.)
Some would say something like "yes, of course". To me that's ridiculous. It's just too complicated. We're not going to be able to tell exactly what his actions resulted in (or what they will result in), directly and indirectly. His intentions might have been good but that's not what I'm asking.

I don't really know any philosophy. Feels like we could make much more out of this discussion if we at least knew something about determinism.

"Following in the footstep of someone who loved me so much he died in my place."
This is extreme. Probably more extreme than anything in my life. I will try my best to listen to you.

To me, it feels like you often listen to your gut. Maybe that's a good thing. If I think life is too complicated for us understand, then why am I thinking so much? I guess I'm scared.

The most cynical part of me asks whether you're trying to convince me or yourself.

I'm sorry for behaving like this. Thank you for your responses so far!

 

[Mossberg Shotty]

Ah, good. It was all hanging in a very thin thread there for a while.

"Seeking the validation of others is a fools errand, I know because I've spent enough years doing it."
During those years, did anyone ever tell you what you're telling me now? If so, what did you think? When I hear "Seeking the validation of other is a fools errand" there's a voice in my head saying "Well isn't that a nice excuse..". If you had such a voice in your head, how did you silence it?

"The only reason I even recognize this kind of behavior is because I spent years doing the same thing myself."
This is very reassuring, because you are definitely not like me now. You really have moved on. Was it gradual or immediate? I'm sorry if I'm repeating the same questions but this is essential.

I really hope you're getting something out of this, other than my gratitude.

When I say I did the same thing, I didn't mean exactly. I just ascribed to a very negative way of thinking for a long time. Nobody ever told me anything like that (not that I would have listened) I just gradually changed my outlook. It's not instantaneous, it's a daily choice and takes a long time to sink in.

To me, it was a fool's errand. I know what my value is, so I don't need anyone else's. At least, if I don't consider their approval to be worthwhile. Which I usually don't.

I'm assuming it's a metaphorical voice you're hearing, at least I hope. Your inner monologue is a creature of habit, and like I said before it will be a long and arduous process of changing the way you think. You have to be 100% conscious of your thinking and behavior if you want to change it. It's not about silencing it, it's about changing what it says. At least it was for me.

You're clearly dissatisfied with the way you are, and believe it or not that's a good thing. Nobody ever changes something until they reach a point where they're not happy with it. Now that you have the motivation, it's just a matter of commitment. Good luck.

 

[mip0]

I like the way mip0 thinks. Have you considered that perhaps a social bit of your brain is trying to build rapport with these people - and its those bits making you feel ashamed for failing to impress the people and build a relationship - meanwhile there are other (contradictory) bits that don't care. It could be you aren't consciously aware of the "rapport-building" thing your brain is doing until you feel ashamed. Remember that the brain is doing all kinds of stuff sometimes unconsciously and sometimes consciously, and that a lot of stuff is 'hard-wired' in thanks to millions of years of evolution such as the drive people have to build relationships with other people (and therefore increase one's [genes'] survivability.)

Look up the 'modular theory of mind' for more

Anyway I wouldn't worry too much about it, if I was you; you're just being human by the sounds of it.

Thanks! It all sounds very reasonable. I'll edit this post to add some questions later, other than those that follow here.
Curiosity is hardwired, right? The drive to question the way we are hardwired is part of curiosity, right? It's a bit strange how we have, through evolution, gained the ability to question evolution. It's a bit like when freedom of speech enable those who are against freedom of speech to make themselves heard.

I will look up the 'modular theory of mind'. Thank you!

 

[mip0]

This thread is really surreal, but I can't put my finger on why...

I know....mabue its just cause I'm tried

[quote/]Also, narcissism hasn't been an issue on this site in years.

that was untill I came back...the sites biggest narcisit

by the way if anyones wondering where I've been the past few days I went to Melbourne, the cultural capital of Australia and I saw wicked [sub/][joking/]but not really[/joking][/sub][/quote]

It would be fun with a joke thread in which everyone just tries to be as narcissistic as possible.

I am also tired. Good night narcissist! Good night thread!

 

[Coruptin]

are you asking why people do not support you being an actual cartoon villain

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Also, narcissism hasn't been an issue on this site in years.

Spoiler: Hmmm, let me punch that into this little machine right here...

Damn it... The CIA's prototype still doesn't work.

Anyway, I'll take a stab at the OP.

How can they make me feel ashamed when I'm not even trying? How can they make me feel ashamed when, to me, there is no point in trying? This frustrates me to no end.

I think its the (mostly) unspoken expectation that no matter who you are or what you do, you are expected to contribute to the society you were born into. Small town communities in the province I grew up in have this in spades. "What are you doing to contribute?" "What do you bring to this town?" "Everyone is capable of doing SOMETHING for the greater good."

Etc, etc.

Provided you aren't doing any actual harm to the people you live/work around, I wouldn't worry about it. Live your life in a way that brings you happiness, even if that means others look down on you. What should it matter to them? I find that people who judge how you live/act the harshest are usually the ones who derive some sort of pleasure out of putting others down. It makes ME feel better than them when that becomes apparent, even though I won't say as much to their face. =P

 

[lacktheknack]

Also, narcissism hasn't been an issue on this site in years.

Spoiler: Hmmm, let me punch that into this little machine right here...

Damn it... The CIA's prototype still doesn't work.

No, I'm serious. The elitist crazies here that made the Dead Horse Interchange cry have gone and gotten themselves banned, or just drifted from the site.

I mean, sure, some narcissists remain, but find me a forum without them...

 

[Redlin5_v1legacy]

Also, narcissism hasn't been an issue on this site in years.

Spoiler: Hmmm, let me punch that into this little machine right here...

Damn it... The CIA's prototype still doesn't work.

No, I'm serious. The elitist crazies here that made the Dead Horse Interchange cry have gone and gotten themselves banned, or just drifted from the site.

I mean, sure, some narcissists remain, but find me a forum without them...

Ah, well someday the prototype will work...

Although, I could name a few big ones who survived, let's not. xD

 

[mip0]

Ah, good. It was all hanging in a very thin thread there for a while.

"Seeking the validation of others is a fools errand, I know because I've spent enough years doing it."
During those years, did anyone ever tell you what you're telling me now? If so, what did you think? When I hear "Seeking the validation of other is a fools errand" there's a voice in my head saying "Well isn't that a nice excuse..". If you had such a voice in your head, how did you silence it?

"The only reason I even recognize this kind of behavior is because I spent years doing the same thing myself."
This is very reassuring, because you are definitely not like me now. You really have moved on. Was it gradual or immediate? I'm sorry if I'm repeating the same questions but this is essential.

I really hope you're getting something out of this, other than my gratitude.

When I say I did the same thing, I didn't mean exactly. I just ascribed to a very negative way of thinking for a long time. Nobody ever told me anything like that (not that I would have listened) I just gradually changed my outlook. It's not instantaneous, it's a daily choice and takes a long time to sink in.

To me, it was a fool's errand. I know what my value is, so I don't need anyone else's. At least, if I don't consider their approval to be worthwhile. Which I usually don't.

I'm assuming it's a metaphorical voice you're hearing, at least I hope. Your inner monologue is a creature of habit, and like I said before it will be a long and arduous process of changing the way you think. You have to be 100% conscious of your thinking and behavior if you want to change it. It's not about silencing it, it's about changing what it says. At least it was for me.

You're clearly dissatisfied with the way you are, and believe it or not that's a good thing. Nobody ever changes something until they reach a point where they're not happy with it. Now that you have the motivation, it's just a matter of commitment. Good luck.

Ah, yes, it's a metaphorical voice. It's still under control ^^, just me speaking to myself in my head.

"You have to be 100% conscious of your thinking and behavior if you want to change it. It's not about silencing it, it's about changing what it says. At least it was for me."
This is... I'm reading it over and over again, smiling. I usually dismiss all attempts at figuring out what to do, because of how complicated life is. But I believe in this. I have the motivation now, as you say. Thank you!

...I'm seriously going to edit the original post, declaring the problem solved...

 

[Flutterguy]

That condescending attitude happens for a multitude of reasons from bad moods, unhealthy egos and bad education.

No one is immune to irritation, luckily a bad mood is short-lived. If you've an oversize ego or bad education you'll just have to learn whilst you and everyone else suffers your current disposition.

It's a fools errand to comprehend the vastness of insecurities and bad dispositions humans hold sacred. I just want to be happy.

 

[mip0]

are you asking why people do not support you being an actual cartoon villain

Sorry, I'm a bit afraid of answering:
If I was trying to help someone and they were only partly listening to me, partly joking around with other people, then I would become annoyed.
It would feel a bit disrespectful, even if those who are helping me are bigger than this.

It would be a great idea for a thread, though. A thread in which we all pretend to be cartoon villains, and we just speak about why these crazy people in capes have to get in way all the time, and why they have to be so violent.

If it really does seem like I'm asking why people do not support me being an actual cartoon villain, then I'm curious . I often have trouble making myself understood and it would be interesting to read about your interpretation of the original question.

 

[Buckshaft]

I agree here. I can translate Skarp Dig, or however it goes.

Around here, we have a phrase. "Take yourself off it, you bloody banter merchant." more universally, it means, "Get your head out of your own ass"

 

[mip0]

(...)

Anyway, I'll take a stab at the OP.

How can they make me feel ashamed when I'm not even trying? How can they make me feel ashamed when, to me, there is no point in trying? This frustrates me to no end.

I think its the (mostly) unspoken expectation that no matter who you are or what you do, you are expected to contribute to the society you were born into. Small town communities in the province I grew up in have this in spades. "What are you doing to contribute?" "What do you bring to this town?" "Everyone is capable of doing SOMETHING for the greater good."

Etc, etc.

Provided you aren't doing any actual harm to the people you live/work around, I wouldn't worry about it. Live your life in a way that brings you happiness, even if that means others look down on you. What should it matter to them? I find that people who judge how you live/act the harshest are usually the ones who derive some sort of pleasure out of putting others down. It makes ME feel better than them when that becomes apparent, even though I won't say as much to their face. =P

I've never been stabbed in a nice and constructive way before.

It sounds healthy to grow up in a town like that, as opposed to growing up somewhere with so many people that no one feels like they can make a difference.

I will try not to take the way they look at me too seriously, thanks!
I'm thinking about them now... Part of me really does hope it becomes apparent. It would make me feel better. You have given me some hope.

 

[mip0]

That condescending attitude happens for a multitude of reasons from bad moods, unhealthy egos and bad education.

No one is immune to irritation, luckily a bad mood is short-lived. If you've an oversize ego or bad education you'll just have to learn whilst you and everyone else suffers your current disposition.

It's a fools errand to comprehend the vastness of insecurities and bad dispositions humans hold sacred. I just want to be happy.

Right, sometimes they're just in a bad mood. Sometimes it's just bad timing. I should keep that in mind.

No one has mentioned bad education before. Are there studies of this that I can read about?

 

[mip0]

I agree here. I can translate Skarp Dig, or however it goes.

Around here, we have a phrase. "Take yourself off it, you bloody banter merchant." more universally, it means, "Get your head out of your own ass"

From what you've said so far you seem to live in a nice place. It's like the culture takes care of the problem. I never thought about that before. I could simply move away from the problem.