LGBT issues in the western world.

Anja Bech

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Ben Lyons said:
Do you think that it perhaps because being homosexual is not something thats ( always/clearly) visible, whereas being trans is much more visible?

Note thats not a statement but a question.

Sexuality is kinda something that confuses me, and probably I'm going to receive a lot of flak for this, but there does seems to be gay ( sexuality ) and gay ( culture ), and these are not the same thing, sure there may be an overlap, but not everyone who is gay is 'scene' and I'm sure not everyone who is 'scene' is gay. For my own part I'm attracted to humans... thats about as far as I can narrow it, 'bi' doesn't even come close. ow does Bisexual cover a pre-op FtM having a relationship with a Drag-Queen?
In Denmark I think it has more to do with our laws. Most of the trans* people I know pas really well. In Denmark, trans-sexuality is still a diagnose. You still have to get sterilized to be legally the gender you prefer, though we are finally working on that ancient law. We only have one clinic that is allowed to diagnose trans* people. One clinic that has a monopoly on the government sanctioned treatment (we have free healthcare in Denmark). One clinic. In the entire country. Let that sink in for a moment. If they feel you are too mentally ill to receive treatment, you won't, even if it's you being a trans*person that's the root of your depression/anxiety/etc. If they feel you're not 'sick enough' (read: not trans-y enough), they can deny you treatment as well. One fucking clinic. The Danish laws infantilize trans*people, and to make matters worse, we've just gotten a bunch of new rules so it's even harder to get the treatment you need.

I wont comment on the sexuality bit as I feel it's futile to try and set that stuff in stone when I believe it's a very fluid thing.

Though I will agree there seems to be a gay culture. It makes sense though. Put a bunch of people together who share nothing but their sexuality, isolate them (by choice and society) and a specific culture will emerge. That's about the only thing I can say about it though. Sorry, no profound words of wisdom.
 

Plasticaprinae

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Im in a lesbian relationship and I live in missouri! Though i am in Kansas city, which is pretty liberal. Ive never been messed with, though it might be because everyone is quiet about their private lives here. Even if I hold hands with my girlfriend and call her various petnames, no one cares. I'm also not visibly "lesbian". I only got bothered for dating a girl in my suburban highschool. Anywhere outside of kansas city puts me on guard. I always have to be super careful what I do around my girlfriend while we are driving through the ozarks, I dont want to be jumped by some assholes who think they know more than me.
 

rosac

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tangoprime said:
Some more evidence that texas, and even top flight NFL, may not be as bad as people think.

http://elitedaily.com/sports/dallas-cowboys-sign-michael-sam/737079/?utm_source=FBTraffic&utm_medium=fijifrost&utm_campaign=CMfacebook
 

Someone Depressing

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I live in Scotland. Right now, the biggest blip coming out of Scotland is either the big fuss its making over Independence, and that its food is still shit.

Things are fairly progressive, delinquents and casual homophobia aside[footnote]Even so, the place I live in is the kind of place where people look out for each other. Call a gay kid a fat, dyke or queer, and you'll have their family, their friends, and probably your own family all rooting against you, so homophobic violence and actual bigotry is uncommon. I've always had gay friends, even growing up, so I guess people either didn't care or they were lucky they didn't get crap for it.[/footnote]. People also tend to get shocked when I tell them I'm not the straightest thing in the world, because I don't act camp, amen't a hairdresser and I hate things that "gay people like". Even so, there isn't any backlash.

I imagine LGBT people get it better in England, though, where marriage is actually legal.

captcha: knock off. That's not very fair, captcha. Nobody in England can cook as badly as us we do.
 

CymbaIine

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Someone Depressing said:
I live in Scotland. Right now, the biggest blip coming out of Scotland is either the big fuss its making over Independence, and that its food is still shit.

Things are fairly progressive, delinquents and casual homophobia aside[footnote]Even so, the place I live in is the kind of place where people look out for each other. Call a gay kid a fat, dyke or queer, and you'll have their family, their friends, and probably your own family all rooting against you, so homophobic violence and actual bigotry is uncommon. I've always had gay friends, even growing up, so I guess people either didn't care or they were lucky they didn't get crap for it.[/footnote]. People also tend to get shocked when I tell them I'm not the straightest thing in the world, because I don't act camp, amen't a hairdresser and I hate things that "gay people like". Even so, there isn't any backlash.

I imagine LGBT people get it better in England, though, where marriage is actually legal.

captcha: knock off. That's not very fair, captcha. Nobody in England can cook as badly as us we do.
Shit, gay marriage isn't legal in Scotland? Are there plans for it?
 
Apr 5, 2008
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rosac said:
There are still a lot of people who are intolerant towards gays and hold old-school views (my friend sees it as unnatural)
In fairness, it *is* unnatural. That doesn't make it wrong, but it isn't natural, it's against the norm. From the dictionary: contrary to the ordinary course of nature; abnormal. Homosexuality is both of those things. Again, that doesn't make it wrong.
 

Panda Pandemic

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KingsGambit said:
rosac said:
There are still a lot of people who are intolerant towards gays and hold old-school views (my friend sees it as unnatural)
In fairness, it *is* unnatural. That doesn't make it wrong, but it isn't natural, it's against the norm. From the dictionary: contrary to the ordinary course of nature; abnormal. Homosexuality is both of those things. Again, that doesn't make it wrong.
False. It is not contrary to the ordinary course of natural. It is a natural variation like different colored hair.
 

Poetic Nova

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Combustion Kevin said:
I live in the north of the netherlands, we don't really care if someone's gay.
Calling someone gay or a homo usually is meant as "wimpy" or stuck up (or betraying a sort of masculine value, like drinking 0% beer), but actual slurs against actual gay people are out of the question, because as soon as you start bashing gays specifically, noone's your friend.
And yet I have a family that's pretty much against anything that's not straight. I'm not exactly straight so I'm afraid of coming out. Some of my closest friends know about it so I do agree that the general public is mostly okay with this.

Yes, I'm dutch. And sorry for this short rant. It's just that there always will be atleast a minority that against anything that has to do with the LGBT community.
 

FlatCat

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runequester said:
So have you come into contact with much intolerance in your personal experience? As I'm straight I'm probably ignorant to many forms of discrimination, or underrate how offensive forms of discrimination are. What's your thoughts on the videos?
I can say that LGBT youth in my town have it pretty bad. Most homeless youths on the street here were kicked out of the house by their parents because they were gay.

http://gazette.com/homeless-day-one-lgbt-foster-teens-especially-vulnerable-to-homeless-life-in-colorado-springs/article/1536439

People still get killed over being gay; I'd say we have a way to go toward equality.
 

Artaneius

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The word gay where I come from usually just makes fun of someone whose a wimp or does something stupid. Usually it's hardly use to make fun of someone's sexual preference. Mostly because if you offend someone deeply around here you will get your ass beaten. Do the right thing or else.
 

Combustion Kevin

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0takuMetalhead said:
And yet I have a family that's pretty much against anything that's not straight. I'm not exactly straight so I'm afraid of coming out. Some of my closest friends know about it so I do agree that the general public is mostly okay with this.

Yes, I'm dutch. And sorry for this short rant. It's just that there always will be atleast a minority that against anything that has to do with the LGBT community.
But doesn't that undermine the discussion? how do you measure a country's, or even town's, progressiveness? especially when being oppressed or liberated is decided by only a city block? And even if and when you locate it, how do you combat it without antagonizing everyone involved?
Emancipation and social progress are good things, but you don't get there by antagonization or preaching to the choir, and I'm sorry your family thinks this way about you, I don't even know what to do in that case. (I'm quite confrontational irl, but that would probably make the situation worse)

On the flipside, we've got a pretty good track-record when it comes down to emancipation, change comes slowly but it always does come around, give it time, and by the time the bible belt dies out we'll have total social acceptance. :D

just out of curiosity, where DO you live?
 
Apr 5, 2008
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Panda Pandemic said:
It is not contrary to the ordinary course of natural.
Actually it is. Heterosexuality is the norm because that is how kids are made and that is how nature works and species with two genders.
Panda Pandemic said:
It is a natural variation like different colored hair.
It is a variation, precisely. It *is* a variation from the norm and is thus, abnormal. If everyone in the world were homosexual, the human race would go extinct. Homosexuality is only apparent in 2-5% of the population (depending on the study) which makes it a variation from the norm.

Again I'll reiterate this doesn't imply anything wrong with it, but it is abnormal by definition (and reality).
 

Panda Mania

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I live in the Bible Belt--Tennessee, to be exact. What's more, I live in a small town centered around a conservative Christian college...Needless to say, LGBT issues cause lots of controversy here. The larger city near my town--the city council extended protections to LGBT municipal employees and OK'd domestic partner benefits, and in response some politicians began circulating a petition to put the issue as a referendum on the next ballot (in order to make it possible for it to be repealed). That petition got thousands and thousands of signatures; the referendum ended up on the ballot, and guess what, in a landslide vote residents repealed those protections and benefits. >.<

On the college campus, technically all sexual activity, whether gay or straight,is banned, but when it comes to PDA, while straight couples are free to hold hands and kiss and cuddle, a gay couple would be loath to show public physical affection, since non-straight romances are seen as going against the university's Bible-based Christian philosophy/policies...the gay couple would likely be reported and get into trouble with the higher-ups.

I believe religion is to blame for all this intolerance. Most of my friends are religious, and most of these friends believe non-hetero relations are sinful and unnatural. I myself (I'm a Christian) believe that the Bible condemns homosexuality...I just don't agree with God in this case. ;)
 

Panda Pandemic

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KingsGambit said:
Panda Pandemic said:
It is not contrary to the ordinary course of natural.
Actually it is. Heterosexuality is the norm because that is how kids are made and that is how nature works and species with two genders.
You gave two reasons

1) That is how kids are made

Irrelevant. Does not make variants abnormal.

2) That is how nature works

Nature does not say anywhere "Homosexuality is abnormal".

Insistence on the importance of reproduction and survival are personal values. Nature is impartial.

Panda Pandemic said:
It is a natural variation like different colored hair.
It is a variation, precisely. It *is* a variation from the norm and is thus, abnormal. If everyone in the world were homosexual, the human race would go extinct. Homosexuality is only apparent in 2-5% of the population (depending on the study) which makes it a variation from the norm.

Again I'll reiterate this doesn't imply anything wrong with it, but it is abnormal by definition (and reality).
Circular logic. You assume it is a variation from the only norm to prove it is abnormal. To assume heterosexuality is the only norm is to assume your conclusion.

If everyone were male we'd all go extinct too. Your argument is BS.

And red hair is uncommon. Does not make it unnatural. So third argument down.
 

Poetic Nova

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Combustion Kevin said:
But doesn't that undermine the discussion? how do you measure a country's, or even town's, progressiveness? especially when being oppressed or liberated is decided by only a city block? And even if and when you locate it, how do you combat it without antagonizing everyone involved?
Emancipation and social progress are good things, but you don't get there by antagonization or preaching to the choir, and I'm sorry your family thinks this way about you, I don't even know what to do in that case. (I'm quite confrontational irl, but that would probably make the situation worse)
You can't really. Would only make things worse when you do try. Even when a country is deemed safe for everyone it doesn't mean you can be truelly open about it.

Combustion Kevin said:
On the flipside, we've got a pretty good track-record when it comes down to emancipation, change comes slowly but it always does come around, give it time, and by the time the bible belt dies out we'll have total social acceptance. :D

just out of curiosity, where DO you live?
Full blown social acceptance would be great, at this point it's still a dream sadly. I apologize again since I didn't want to make a rant in the first place and yet it happend.
Limburg, nearby Venlo.
 

lionsprey

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I dont think we are that homophobic here in sweden atm we seem to be busy with steadily becoming more racist to care about LGBT people.
 

CymbaIine

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lionsprey said:
I dont think we are that homophobic here in sweden atm we seem to be busy with steadily becoming more racist to care about LGBT people.
Off topic a bit but do you think that's because of the whole peopleshome thing? Among my left leaning (of which I am one) friends Sweden is always held up as this glowing example of how wonderful social democracy can be, but I am a bit suspicious of it. The whole philosophical underpinning seems a tad too nationalistic for my liking.
 

Muspelheim

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It's... Not bad, not bad at all. People barely seem to bat an eye at different sexualities these days, at least in the cities. There certainly are sexuality-related abuses, though. Mainly carried out by disgruntled, poorly educated men (and women) from old industrial areas or rural communities. Them and the nazis, mainly.

People have gotten used to them. Everyone seems to have had a "I met a gay fellow once, and he was completely normal. Guess they're just like everyone else" experience. While there are people who'd rather they don't exist, the vast majority just doesn't think they're a problem anymore. It's very uplifting how small of a deal the whole thing has become.

There are still work to do, I believe you must undergo (amongst other things) sterilisation before you may have a sex change. But damn it if things aren't moving along as they should for once.

CymbaIine said:
lionsprey said:
I dont think we are that homophobic here in sweden atm we seem to be busy with steadily becoming more racist to care about LGBT people.
Off topic a bit but do you think that's because of the whole peopleshome thing? Among my left leaning (of which I am one) friends Sweden is always held up as this glowing example of how wonderful social democracy can be, but I am a bit suspicious of it. The whole philosophical underpinning seems a tad too nationalistic for my liking.
Well, you do have a point in that. Basically, Swedish social democracy (and practically all politics since) is based on the "Folkhome" idea. That is, reguarding the nation as a unified household of sorts, where everyone are expected to help each other depending on ability. Someone pays for your education on the understanding that you will later pay for a decent pension and nursing homes, you aid someone with health or financial difficulties on the understanding that he will pay his bit to aid you, should you need it. The basic idea is that everyone works together, that no citizen should have to suffer. Keep in mind that this philosophy came at a time when people still froze or starve to death during the winters.

There is, however, some nationalistic undertones that are rather frightening. Eugenics was a very respected science in Sweden before the second world war, with its own state research institute. Many people were sterilised against their consent since it was believed that they could risk degenerating the Folkhome. While the Folkhome philosophy was never overtly racist, it had several racist undertones at that time. It was less about race superiority, national pride and conquest, as much as it was a strange idea of defence from a cold outside world seeping in. However, that is a heritage that was quietly dismantled after the Holocaust. While its legacy has never been properly aired out, the eugenic undertones have largely faded.

I still think that on its own, it's a reasonably good political philosophy. After all, it was the policy of choice during a period of time when Sweden turned from a backwards, delapidated and developing nation to a industrial democracy. It isn't as nationalistic as it seems, it's more in the social-liberal direction. Of course, the racist undertones are only brought up today by the people and politicians who would rather the Folkhome ceased to exist as an idea (as well in reality, grumble mumble).

A bit of a babble, but hey... I don't get the opportunity to talk about it very often, do I?.

(Further, the growing reactionaries Lion refers to are not good news for the LGBT in the long run. They're currently focusing on Muslims, like everyone else. Possibly a resurfaced legacy from the Folkhome defence ideal, perhaps?)
 

poundingmetal74

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I live in Ontario in a mid-sized city. Most people tend to be tolerant, and even the older generations who haven't grown up with homosexuality really being a "thing" (to quote my dad: "back then, gay wasn't really even a thing, no one knew what it was") tend to be pretty accepting even if they don't really "get" the whole gay thing. I've lost one close friend who couldn't deal with it, despite being assured I wasn't "into" him and nothing between us had changed. Though that's hardly indicative of my province as a whole, which tends to be remarkably tolerant. I believe we were one of the first places in the world to have gay marriage legalized, and as far as I know gay people have all of the same rights straight people do when it comes to things like anti-discrimination, adoption, etc.

I've never encountered outright hostility or the threat of violence and the VAST majority of people are very cool about it. Occasionally you will meet a person for whom meet a gay person is like meeting Santa. A great example is an encounter I had last week when meeting a friend of a friend who introduced me as her "gay friend." "So you're gay, huh? So are you like 'the girl?'" *facepalm* "Uhhh, nice to meet you too."