Lifting Masks = Back to Getting Down With The Sickness

[Dreiko]

Might want to go and see a doctor of the mental kind if you are having trouble believing reality; the entire world didn't go apeshit for nothing, countries didn't start tracking infections and deaths for nothing, etc, etc, etc.

Good to hear that you recovered from it with only a mild set of symptoms.

lmao that's one insanely literal take on what I wrote alright. My point was to emphasize the lightness of my symptoms not to cast doubt on the millions of dead people.


Basically, to die from the cold I had you must be with a foot and a half in the grave already. It could be a combination of my immune system being baller (I had not gotten any type of cold or sickness for about 8 years prior to this) and the vaccine helping and most of the dead being unvaccinated old deathly sick people or something like that. Also I didn't even take any cold medicine or anything of the sort while sick either, I just rode it out.

I also hope, and I mean this sincerely, you don't suffer long-term effects like quite a few COVID victims. Brain fog can be an absolute *****.

ETA: Apparently, they censor on here, now. That last word is a term for a dog of the feminine persuasion.

Nah I'm like totally back to normal now. I had a minor lingering cough where I was clearing out but didn't feel sick at all for a couple days but that's been gone for a while too.

I much prefer covid over a cold or flu, it's less annoying and goes away faster. It's not just antibodies, it's T and B cells too. The whole obsession with anti-body counts is beyond ridiculous. You never had to wash your groceries in the 1st place or if you were that concerned, just leave in the sun for a few minutes = dead covid.

For me it's a peace of mind thing, I just did it to feel I did all I could to protect everyone in the house as best possible. In the end they caught it at work and brought it here so on my front with the groceries I have won XD.

 

[Trunkage]

lmao that's one insanely literal take on what I wrote alright. My point was to emphasize the lightness of my symptoms not to cast doubt on the millions of dead people.


Basically, to die from the cold I had you must be with a foot and a half in the grave already. It could be a combination of my immune system being baller (I had not gotten any type of cold or sickness for about 8 years prior to this) and the vaccine helping and most of the dead being unvaccinated old deathly sick people or something like that.

Yeah, that's not true. That's a general thing like generally men are taller than women. It does not you have to have one foot in the grave to die

Eg. One of my colleagues is serverely overweight, eats unhealthy all the time, is old etc. She had no idea she had covid until her partner got sick.

Me, slightly overweight, somewhat eats healthy, youngish but an ex smoker. 3 days in bed and still have long covid 5 months later

A friend of mine is in her early 20s, does national competition for sports, incredibly fit and eats perfectly. On the ventilator for 2 weeks and in bed for another 4.

Also, I'd suggest looking up the comorbidities. Some of them aren't really about having one foot in the grave (eg. Have anxiety or depression. These are seperate morbidities.)

Yes, if you have more comorbidities you are more likely to die. Assuming those that died were on death's door is a bad assumption

 

[Dreiko]

Yeah, that's not true. That's a general thing like generally men are taller than women. It does not you have to have one foot in the grave to die

Eg. One of my colleagues is serverely overweight, eats unhealthy all the time, is old etc. She had no idea she had covid until her partner got sick.

Me, slightly overweight, somewhat eats healthy, youngish but an ex smoker. 3 days in bed and still have long covid 5 months later

A friend of mine is in her early 20s, does national competition for sports, incredibly fit and eats perfectly. On the ventilator for 2 weeks and in bed for another 4.

Also, I'd suggest looking up the comorbidities. Some of them aren't really about having one foot in the grave (eg. Have anxiety or depression. These are seperate morbidities.)

Yes, if you have more comorbidities you are more likely to die. Assuming those that died were on death's door is a bad assumption

Maybe it's just the variants then? Like how when the virus mutates it becomes less lethal and whatnot? I'm 99% sure I got omicron (didn't actually go out to test that since I didn't wanna get anyone sick, I just got a simple test in the mail and stayed in until I was testing negative) but which variant was the one in vogue when you and your acquaintances got it?

 

[Trunkage]

Maybe it's just the variants then? Like how when the virus mutates it becomes less lethal and whatnot? I'm 99% sure I got omicron (didn't actually go out to test that since I didn't wanna get anyone sick, I just got a simple test in the mail and stayed in until I was testing negative) but which variant was the one in vogue when you and your acquaintances got it?

To me, what you've done misunderstanding probability. Yes, it's more likely people with co-morbidities to die. No, that does not mean healthy people wont die. A lot of healthy people WILL die. My anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove the probability, I stated it to highlight misconception about probability. Eg. just because woman are smaller than men, doesn't mean that some women aren't taller than me. I'm also noting I'm not trying to say you're wrong with your stats, and you've clarified some things in the initial post compared to an antivaxxer. I'm trying to fill in the story, getting the whole picture. I've really disliked this 'they got co-morbidities so they deserve to die of COVID' schtick I've heard way too often

I'm only pointing this out because I've been hanging around antivaxxers who pretend that 'everyone' said that vaccines would 100% stop Covid. That's not how any corona virus vaccines have worked. That's not what any government authority said, nor company, health agency or the MSN. I.e. No one said this, they made up a narrative to fit their world view. It increases your probability of survival. It's probability, not certainty. Like, you aren't pretending 'COVID is better than the flu' when clearly it isn't. Even the person I know who didn't get Covid that bad is NOT saying 'COVID is better than the flue' because they know people who got way sicker than any flu has done. Just because it didnt affect them personally, doesnt mean it doesnt affect others. (You're initial comment says something similar.) I personally would easily take the flu any day of the week because the symptoms are so much lighter. I still have symptoms 5 months later. I've never been that sick in my life. And I didn't even get Covid that bad.

As to variants, we didn't have the initial strain or Delta. If I remember, its was twoish thousand people who got COVID in 2020/1 in my state who got any Covid total before we opened (we doubled that amount within two weeks of opening up and have consistently been above our two year total every single week since.) It was highly likely all these people had Omicron just based on timing. But I wouldnt apply any of this information to most of the world. We're an anomaly due to our vastly difference policy approaches to say, the US. I.e. all these people I talked about got COVID since Xmas. There was no one in my area that I knew got COVID before Xmas,. Covid just wasnt a thing for us before then

 

[Agema]

I see 90+% of the population doing things way more deadly everyday than the risk from covid on surfaces.

Most of the population have an extraordinarily poor understanding of risk. There are studies identifying that.

If something is 0.5% dangerous and you do it daily,

And those people with a poor understanding of risk includes you and me. You can slap a load of numbers down to sound rational, but the fact is that your behaviours will already include doing things that put you at high risk whilst avoiding things that are lower risk. In many cases, of course, we don't even know the risk to think about it rationally in the first place.

Thus what you're doing here is what psychologists call rationalisation: supplying a logical-seeming justification for your behaviour that isn't the real reason for why you did it. You didn't wear safety equipment basically because you couldn't be arsed to.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Hey, did you end up getting covid at any point? Asking for brain fog reasons

Who hasn't?

To me, what you've done misunderstanding probability. Yes, it's more likely people with co-morbidities to die. No, that does not mean healthy people wont die. A lot of healthy people WILL die. My anecdotal evidence doesn't disprove the probability, I stated it to highlight misconception about probability. Eg. just because woman are smaller than men, doesn't mean that some women aren't taller than me. I'm also noting I'm not trying to say you're wrong with your stats, and you've clarified some things in the initial post compared to an antivaxxer. I'm trying to fill in the story, getting the whole picture. I've really disliked this 'they got co-morbidities so they deserve to die of COVID' schtick I've heard way too often

I'm only pointing this out because I've been hanging around antivaxxers who pretend that 'everyone' said that vaccines would 100% stop Covid. That's not how any corona virus vaccines have worked. That's not what any government authority said, nor company, health agency or the MSN. I.e. No one said this, they made up a narrative to fit their world view. It increases your probability of survival. It's probability, not certainty. Like, you aren't pretending 'COVID is better than the flu' when clearly it isn't. Even the person I know who didn't get Covid that bad is NOT saying 'COVID is better than the flue' because they know people who got way sicker than any flu has done. Just because it didnt affect them personally, doesnt mean it doesnt affect others. (You're initial comment says something similar.) I personally would easily take the flu any day of the week because the symptoms are so much lighter. I still have symptoms 5 months later. I've never been that sick in my life. And I didn't even get Covid that bad.

As to variants, we didn't have the initial strain or Delta. If I remember, its was twoish thousand people who got COVID in 2020/1 in my state who got any Covid total before we opened (we doubled that amount within two weeks of opening up and have consistently been above our two year total every single week since.) It was highly likely all these people had Omicron just based on timing. But I wouldnt apply any of this information to most of the world. We're an anomaly due to our vastly difference policy approaches to say, the US. I.e. all these people I talked about got COVID since Xmas. There was no one in my area that I knew got COVID before Xmas,. Covid just wasnt a thing for us before then

How is a single anecdote going to highlight the misconception of probability? That's literally what one anecdote does... it pulls on the emotional strings to make you less rational. 1% of people die from traffic accidents, just because you have a colleague that died in a car crash doesn't "highlight" the misconception of that probability. Does Louis Rossman's anecdote of vaccine adverse effects highlight the misconceptions of adverse effects from the vaccine because of a single anecdote (one of his employees got a heart attack from the vaccine)? Yes, no one said the vaccine is 100% effective but they did say 95% effective so you're kinda splitting hairs on that. And the 95% was for symptomatic disease, which doesn't even count deaths and hospitalizations (which are the things most people care about) thus the effectiveness rate would be even higher than 95% in that regard. The narrative was very much that the vaccines will stop covid in its tracks regardless if someone got the number slightly wrong or merely rounded up.

Most of the population have an extraordinarily poor understanding of risk. There are studies identifying that.



And those people with a poor understanding of risk includes you and me. You can slap a load of numbers down to sound rational, but the fact is that your behaviours will already include doing things that put you at high risk whilst avoiding things that are lower risk. In many cases, of course, we don't even know the risk to think about it rationally in the first place.

Thus what you're doing here is what psychologists call rationalisation: supplying a logical-seeming justification for your behaviour that isn't the real reason for why you did it. You didn't wear safety equipment basically because you couldn't be arsed to.

That's literally my point, people don't understand risk. Your proof that the "safety" equipment will keep me any safer than not wearing it? Name one thing I can possibly do in a normal day that is high risk? The highest risk thing is driving to work and the rest of the things are far far far lower risk than that. What is something that is somewhat common thing people do that is more dangerous than driving? If I consider driving within my risk tolerance, why would anything under that be considered high risk?

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

That's literally my point, people don't understand risk. Your proof that the "safety" equipment will keep me any safer than not wearing it? Name one thing I can possibly do in a normal day that is high risk? The highest risk thing is driving to work and the rest of the things are far far far lower risk than that. What is something that is somewhat common thing people do that is more dangerous than driving? If I consider driving within my risk tolerance, why would anything under that be considered high risk?

I literally drive at night along mountain roads in inclement weather at 2am in Montana as a job. It's probably the highest risk activity I've done at all in my life.

Somehow, this doesn't then justify taking on smaller amounts of added risk that's easily mitigated for zero reason. For example, I still wear the company recommended and mandated PPE to avoid the off chance of picking up a handful of extra rads, even though it's dramatically unlikely to hurt me in any way

Because I'm not an idiot. You're doing the equivalent of working with a table saw and declining eye protection because it's much more likely you're gonna slice open your hand. It's nonsensical

 

[Agema]

That's literally my point, people don't understand risk. Your proof that the "safety" equipment will keep me any safer than not wearing it? Name one thing I can possibly do in a normal day that is high risk? The highest risk thing is driving to work and the rest of the things are far far far lower risk than that. What is something that is somewhat common thing people do that is more dangerous than driving? If I consider driving within my risk tolerance, why would anything under that be considered high risk?

Wearing safety equipment definitely makes you safer - and in the case of infection control, other people safer. How much in terms of covid transmission via surfaces is unknown, but very likely not much safer. And when it became clearer the risk was sufficiently low, many of these measures were quietly retired.

Risk tolerance does not exist on its own. People usually drive to work because the alternatives are impractical or costly (or maybe they're lazy, etc.). However, if you refuse to do simple and basically cost-free things like wear masks and wipe down surfaces, your risk understanding is arguably pretty shit. I say this in the knowledge I don't necessarily avoid risk in many situations where it would cost me little: but I also don't try to rationalise it.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

I literally drive at night along mountain roads in inclement weather at 2am in Montana as a job. It's probably the highest risk activity I've done at all in my life.

Somehow, this doesn't then justify taking on smaller amounts of added risk that's easily mitigated for zero reason. For example, I still wear the company recommended and mandated PPE to avoid the off chance of picking up a handful of extra rads, even though it's dramatically unlikely to hurt me in any way

Because I'm not an idiot. You're doing the equivalent of working with a table saw and declining eye protection because it's much more likely you're gonna slice open your hand. It's nonsensical

Nothing that I've declined to do makes me or others any safer.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Wearing safety equipment definitely makes you safer - and in the case of infection control, other people safer. How much in terms of covid transmission via surfaces is unknown, but very likely not much safer. And when it became clearer the risk was sufficiently low, many of these measures were quietly retired.

Risk tolerance does not exist on its own. People usually drive to work because the alternatives are impractical or costly (or maybe they're lazy, etc.). However, if you refuse to do simple and basically cost-free things like wear masks and wipe down surfaces, your risk understanding is arguably pretty shit. I say this in the knowledge I don't necessarily avoid risk in many situations where it would cost me little: but I also don't try to rationalise it.

Wearing gloves or masks doesn't make me or others safer against covid. And the point of wearing gloves to protect against a very insignificant risk of covid via surfaces that we knew before it came here on top of having natural immunity already? People getting the #1 combo at their fast food place of choice is easily the most dangerous thing people do on a daily basis.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

Wearing gloves or masks doesn't make me or others safer against covid. And the point of wearing gloves to protect against a very insignificant risk of covid via surfaces that we knew before it came here on top of having natural immunity already?

So this is something that my autistic brain has spent a lot of time and effort learning: just because your assumption turns out to be "right", and I don't think you were as right as you seem to, doesn't mean you weren't wrong for acting on it. You got lucky when basic and simple PPE would've helped if you weren't

Odds are I'm never going to actually touch radioactive material. Odds are even smaller that any about of radioactive material I *do* touch is actually gonna hurt me. This does not, in fact, give me license to flaunt the very simple and basic safety protocols my company uses for interacting with radioactive material.

You ended up being kind of right about handwashing and sanitizing surfaces. That doesn't mean you weren't wrong for not doing so against the advice of basically every major health origination in an unknown and fluctuating situation. It's reckless.

EDIT: Also loving this idea that anything less risky than the most risky thing you do actually has zero risk and can be ignored

 

[Agema]

Wearing gloves or masks doesn't make me or others safer against covid. And the point of wearing gloves to protect against a very insignificant risk of covid via surfaces that we knew before it came here on top of having natural immunity already?

It was not reliably known what the risk of surface contamination was when you decided on your own whim to jettison infection safety protocols. That was at best reckless. At worst, downright irresponsible.

MysteriousGX makes a good point. I've handled a wide range of (in some cases very) dangerous chemicals in my life. The chance I'm accidentally going to poison myself or someone else is low. But the reality is that accidents happen, so I follow safety protocols. What I'm hearing from you isn't really any different from the people who claim they're safe using a mobile phone when they drive: and indeed, the majority of the time they will get away with it. But sometimes in all these cases some of them don't - and the point is to stop the worst happening, especially when it's other people's lives on the line.

 

[thebobmaster]

It was not reliably known what the risk of surface contamination was when you decided on your own whim to jettison infection safety protocols. That was at best reckless. At worst, downright irresponsible.

MysteriousGX makes a good point. I've handled a wide range of (in some cases very) dangerous chemicals in my life. The chance I'm accidentally going to poison myself or someone else is low. But the reality is that accidents happen, so I follow safety protocols. What I'm hearing from you isn't really any different from the people who claim they're safe using a mobile phone when they drive: and indeed, the majority of the time they will get away with it. But sometimes in all these cases some of them don't - and the point is to stop the worst happening, especially when it's other people's lives on the line.

And to add to the mobile phone comparison, all it takes is once. One time for you to be distracted by your conversation, or one time that the contaminant gets into your nose or mouth without being blocked.

 

[Phoenixmgs]

So this is something that my autistic brain has spent a lot of time and effort learning: just because your assumption turns out to be "right", and I don't think you were as right as you seem to, doesn't mean you weren't wrong for acting on it. You got lucky when basic and simple PPE would've helped if you weren't

Odds are I'm never going to actually touch radioactive material. Odds are even smaller that any about of radioactive material I *do* touch is actually gonna hurt me. This does not, in fact, give me license to flaunt the very simple and basic safety protocols my company uses for interacting with radioactive material.

You ended up being kind of right about handwashing and sanitizing surfaces. That doesn't mean you weren't wrong for not doing so against the advice of basically every major health origination in an unknown and fluctuating situation. It's reckless.

EDIT: Also loving this idea that anything less risky than the most risky thing you do actually has zero risk and can be ignored

We had the studies before covid even reached the US. Also, touching the outside of laptops where there's even a much much lower chance of getting covid (vs the inside with the keyboard, which is already almost zero) and also already having natural immunity. Sorry, I don't do shit to lower my chances of something bad happening by like 0.000000001%. Do you know what would've helped stop covid spread a lot more? Ventilation in the room where everyone was trading in their old laptops for new ones.

It was not reliably known what the risk of surface contamination was when you decided on your own whim to jettison infection safety protocols. That was at best reckless. At worst, downright irresponsible.

MysteriousGX makes a good point. I've handled a wide range of (in some cases very) dangerous chemicals in my life. The chance I'm accidentally going to poison myself or someone else is low. But the reality is that accidents happen, so I follow safety protocols. What I'm hearing from you isn't really any different from the people who claim they're safe using a mobile phone when they drive: and indeed, the majority of the time they will get away with it. But sometimes in all these cases some of them don't - and the point is to stop the worst happening, especially when it's other people's lives on the line.

WE KNEW COVID DIDN'T SPREAD ON SURFACES BEFORE IT EVEN REACHED THE US. Touching the outside of the laptop to put it in a stack and read the asset tag is like so unlikely to catch covid from it's not even funny. Touching a laptop (or anything) is not akin to working with poison. If you're actually following safety protocols to lower some infinitesimally small chance of something bad happening, you'd be so hampered you wouldn't be able to live a normal life. Also guess what like no IT person ever does even though it's in every single safety class? Wear an anti static wrist strap, you just touch the fucking power supply before touching a circuit board if you're so concerned with static shock. The videos show techs wearing wrist straps and standing on rubber mats, it's hilarious.

Talking on a phone and talking to someone sitting next to you in the car is equally distracting. If you can talk with someone in the car, you can talk on your phone. The average person is so bad at driving most of them can't even pull their car up to the ATM and get cash out without having to really stretch or open the door to reach. I pull up with the side mirror an inch away from the ATM. The average person doesn't even know how to set their mirrors, which is why there's blindspot lights on the side mirrors now, I laughed my ass off the 1st time I saw a commercial for that.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

We had the studies before covid even reached the US. Also, touching the outside of laptops where there's even a much much lower chance of getting covid (vs the inside with the keyboard, which is already almost zero) and also already having natural immunity. Sorry, I don't do shit to lower my chances of something bad happening by like 0.000000001%. Do you know what would've helped stop covid spread a lot more? Ventilation in the room where everyone was trading in their old laptops for new ones.

WE KNEW COVID DIDN'T SPREAD ON SURFACES BEFORE IT EVEN REACHED THE US. Touching the outside of the laptop to put it in a stack and read the asset tag is like so unlikely to catch covid from it's not even funny. Touching a laptop (or anything) is not akin to working with poison. If you're actually following safety protocols to lower some infinitesimally small chance of something bad happening, you'd be so hampered you wouldn't be able to live a normal life. Also guess what like no IT person ever does even though it's in every single safety class? Wear an anti static wrist strap, you just touch the fucking power supply before touching a circuit board if you're so concerned with static shock. The videos show techs wearing wrist straps and standing on rubber mats, it's hilarious.

Talking on a phone and talking to someone sitting next to you in the car is equally distracting. If you can talk with someone in the car, you can talk on your phone. The average person is so bad at driving most of them can't even pull their car up to the ATM and get cash out without having to really stretch or open the door to reach. I pull up with the side mirror an inch away from the ATM. The average person doesn't even know how to set their mirrors, which is why there's blindspot lights on the side mirrors now, I laughed my ass off the 1st time I saw a commercial for that.

Ahh. So you laugh at demonstrably effective safety measures. That's...unsurprising

 

[Agema]

We had the studies before covid even reached the US.

No, we had some studies. Much like we had some studies on HCQ and ivermectin, and we all remember how badly you fared on interpreting those.

You were - and two years later remain - incompetent at science. All you're doing here is using hindsight to validate your prior guesswork, in a feeble attempt to justify your past behaviour. And given the shit you spout that you never claimed HCQ or ivermectin was effective, we all know you just lie to us (and possibly yourself) to pretend you were right.

So I now await the same blah blah blah for the umpteenth time that you tediously spam the thread with despite the fact nobody here trusts or believes you on the subject.

 

[BrawlMan]

You were - and two years later remain - incompetent at science. All you're doing here is using hindsight to validate your prior guesswork, in a feeble attempt to justify your past behaviour. And given the shit you spout that you never claimed HCQ or ivermectin was effective, we all know you just lie to us (and possibly yourself) to pretend you were right.

So I now await the same blah blah blah for the umpteenth time that you tediously spam the thread with despite the fact nobody here trusts or believes you on the subject.

HAHAHA! Telling it like it is!

 

[Phoenixmgs]

Ahh. So you laugh at demonstrably effective safety measures. That's...unsurprising

If you setup your mirrors properly, why do you need a blindspot indicator? I've been driving for over 20 years and I only use my mirrors when changing lanes (and I change lanes all the time) and never caused an accident. I'm either the luckiest person that ever lived or the more likely scenario is that my method actually works.

No, we had some studies. Much like we had some studies on HCQ and ivermectin, and we all remember how badly you fared on interpreting those.

You were - and two years later remain - incompetent at science. All you're doing here is using hindsight to validate your prior guesswork, in a feeble attempt to justify your past behaviour. And given the shit you spout that you never claimed HCQ or ivermectin was effective, we all know you just lie to us (and possibly yourself) to pretend you were right.

So I now await the same blah blah blah for the umpteenth time that you tediously spam the thread with despite the fact nobody here trusts or believes you on the subject.

Tracing back thousands of infections vs a small trial with a handful of people are massively different in quality. A respiratory virus spreading via air vs surfaces is guesswork? Other people came to these conclusions very early. Again, it's very easy to search these forums, if I said what you claimed, you can easily find it.

 

[Silvanus]

I don't get how people are constantly sick. In the 2021-2022 fall-spring period where everything was basically fully open, I had my normal 2 colds in that time (1 was a cold and 1 was covid) that I normally always have in a given cold season. And other people at work weren't more sick than ever, nor were any of my groups of friends. One time I got sick from my group of friends passing something around, the other time from guys at work passing something around. Pretty standard stuff.

Oh, I didn't realise you were personally fine. Well that's that then, let's stop all the restrictions.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Oh, I didn't realise you were personally fine. Well that's that then, let's stop all the restrictions.

That's his stance. "What are you all worried about? I'm fine!"