Lost Planet 2 Cut for 360

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sidereal_day

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Baconmonster723 said:
Hmmmmm spend more to make it two discs, or cut content and make it a garbage game. I know what I'm going to do!!!!!! This has convinced me this game is not worth my time.
How exactly do you know LP2 is going to be a garbage game? Because the developers weren't able to do EVERYTHING they wanted? Newsflash: no developer does put everything they want in due to hardware limitations or budget and time constraints.

This sort of righteous indignation and proclamations to "NOT BUY A GAME!!1" because of some perceived small slight to the customers are based on incredibly unrealistic expectations of developers to cater to people's every whim. They're a business. They have costs. If they don't think that they can make up an extra cost with increased revenue, they aren't going to incur the cost.
You can sit there and hypothesize that all those extra costs Capcom would incur would be made up by increased revenue, but until you know exactly how much more it would cost to keep the content and an educated guess of how many more sales it would produce based on scientific market research, you're just making yourself look foolish with zero idea on how to actually run a business.
 

Baconmonster723

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sidereal_day said:
Baconmonster723 said:
Hmmmmm spend more to make it two discs, or cut content and make it a garbage game. I know what I'm going to do!!!!!! This has convinced me this game is not worth my time.
How exactly do you know LP2 is going to be a garbage game? Because the developers weren't able to do EVERYTHING they wanted? Newsflash: no developer does put everything they want in due to hardware limitations or budget and time constraints.

This sort of righteous indignation and proclamations to "NOT BUY A GAME!!1" because of some perceived small slight to the customers are based on incredibly unrealistic expectations of developers to cater to people's every whim. They're a business. They have costs. If they don't think that they can make up an extra cost with increased revenue, they aren't going to incur the cost.
You can sit there and hypothesize that all those extra costs Capcom would incur would be made up by increased revenue, but until you know exactly how much more it would cost to keep the content and an educated guess of how many more sales it would produce based on scientific market research, you're just making yourself look foolish with zero idea on how to actually run a business.
"Takeuchi said that the development team was on the verge of crying as they cut the game to fit on the disk."

This is not your average cut. This is something they want in the game. But,
1. They will make you pay for in DLC.
2. They HAVE IT DONE, and don't want to pay the extra by putting it on a disc.

If this were an instance of them cutting it like ALL DEVELOPERS DO, then they wouldn't be crying over it. Don't give me this horse-hockey "oh they are running this like a business" I'm not an idiot I know what I'm talking about. They are taking a risk, and in their risk they decided to cut so much content it made THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM CRY . Rather than expand to two disks they cut corners for a quick buck later. Well this approach has cost them my business upfront. I was borderline on getting this game anyway. With this risk they take they lose my business. It's as simple as that.
 

sidereal_day

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Baconmonster723 said:
"Takeuchi said that the development team was on the verge of crying as they cut the game to fit on the disk."

This is not your average cut. This is something they want in the game. But,
1. They will make you pay for in DLC.
2. They HAVE IT DONE, and don't want to pay the extra by putting it on a disc.

If this were an instance of them cutting it like ALL DEVELOPERS DO, then they wouldn't be crying over it. Don't give me this horse-hockey "oh they are running this like a business" I'm not an idiot I know what I'm talking about. They are taking a risk, and in their risk they decided to cut so much content it made THE DEVELOPMENT TEAM CRY . Rather than expand to two disks they cut corners for a quick buck later. Well this approach has cost them my business upfront. I was borderline on getting this game anyway. With this risk they take they lose my business. It's as simple as that.
The very best part about this reply is that you said so much without actually addressing anything I actually said. Okay, the development team was bummed about not having their entire vision for the game put out. STOP THE PRESSES, WE HAVE A MAJOR SCOOP ON OUR HANDS.

Did you stop and think that maybe the comment about "on the verge of crying" (which, I might add, you later embellished to "they made the team cry") was hyperbole? Something to drive the point home that the development team had a really hard time with it and that they weren't actually fighting back tears as they deleted content?

Moreover, if we'll have to pay for the extra content, as you say, what's wrong with that? If you don't want to pay for the extra, cut, content, you certainly don't have to. If no one buys it, they'll drop the price or just end up giving it away for free.

Why does everyone on this forum get so angry about developers and publishers trying to make money on their product? If you don't like DLC or think it's a raw deal, don't buy it. Then come on to the Escapist forums and announce to everyone that you didn't buy it, to satisfy whatever urge it is that makes you do that. Tell everyone that you think Capcom is a greedy money-grubbing machine set out to fuck you over. Problem solved.
 

Orcus The Ultimate

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sidereal_day said:
Baconmonster723 said:
Why does everyone on this forum get so angry about developers and publishers trying to make money on their product? If you don't like DLC or think it's a raw deal, don't buy it. Then come on to the Escapist forums and announce to everyone that you didn't buy it, to satisfy whatever urge it is that makes you do that. Tell everyone that you think Capcom is a greedy money-grubbing machine set out to fuck you over. Problem solved.

everyone on this forum get's angry, not about developers, but about their marketing way of selling the product.
 

sidereal_day

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Orcus_35 said:
sidereal_day said:
Baconmonster723 said:
Why does everyone on this forum get so angry about developers and publishers trying to make money on their product? If you don't like DLC or think it's a raw deal, don't buy it. Then come on to the Escapist forums and announce to everyone that you didn't buy it, to satisfy whatever urge it is that makes you do that. Tell everyone that you think Capcom is a greedy money-grubbing machine set out to fuck you over. Problem solved.

everyone on this forum get's angry, not about developers, but about their marketing way of selling the product.
So you get angry about marketing? Huh.
 

Johnnyallstar

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I'm not surprised. The real question is what is M$ going to do about the next generation, where higher compression is required for more space on the data disk. Whether they use Blu-Ray (lololol M$ using Sony stuff) or they devise their own competing medium, I don't know.

If anything brings about the next generation of Xbox, I have a feeling it is the need for more disk space. Especially with Blu-Ray disks now reported of having compression limits of what, 50gb on a disk? Old DVD-9 ain't looking so good with only 8.5gb on a single sided dual layer disk.
 

soapyshooter

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Jan 19, 2010
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pwned?? this is why its good to own both consoles. I <3 my ps3 and my 360 is like the ***** i whip out just for exclusives.
 

Stormz

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Wasn't planning to get it anyway, but this is pretty unfair. I can't wait for all the ps3 fanboys to jump all over this.
 

Kinguendo

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Phew!

I thought you meant cut as in they werent releasing it for the 360.

Had me worried for a second there.
 

Johnnyallstar

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Xzi said:
Johnnyallstar said:
I'm not surprised. The real question is what is M$ going to do about the next generation, where higher compression is required for more space on the data disk. Whether they use Blu-Ray (lololol M$ using Sony stuff) or they devise their own competing medium, I don't know.

If anything brings about the next generation of Xbox, I have a feeling it is the need for more disk space. Especially with Blu-Ray disks now reported of having compression limits of what, 50gb on a disk? Old DVD-9 ain't looking so good with only 8.5gb on a single sided dual layer disk.
Meh, the whole thing is bullshit...just the developers attempting a power-play for more money, and that's it. Blu-Ray discs do have more space than a DVD, obviously, but at the same time, it's still cheaper to print/distribute a game on two DVDs than it is on one Blu-Ray disc. So why can't Capcom do that? They think Microsoft should be paying them more. Simple.

Yet I won't be surprised when Microsoft calls their bluff...Capcom titles aren't worth a damn when compared to what they once were. They sure as shit aren't Mass Effect/GoW quality.
While that is true, but there was one time when DvDs were much much moer expensive than releasing a game on 4 CD-ROMs, but progress is progress, and as the technology gets older, it will get cheaper, and inevitably they will need to move on to a better format, and already we're starting to see a plethora of games that are releasing on multiple disks.

Also, lazy people like me don't like changing disks every so often while playing games. I did that often enough with the 4 CD Under A Killing Moon when I was a kid.
 

Veldt Falsetto

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Onyx Oblivion said:
Disc switching isn't hard people. You only have to do it once. In RPGs, at least. THE HORROR OF DISC SWITCHING!
Did you see Star Ocean on 360, 3 disks to switch between areas, wanna go back, insert disc 1 again.
Also Mass Effect 2 did this, insert disc 1 to view the end of the game :s wtf

OT: I played the first one along time ago but 2 seems to have rid itself of all story and characters (not including Wesker and the Gears duo), do we know what was cut?
 

sidereal_day

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Xzi said:
Personally I'm more pissed that DLC has become the norm, instead of traditional expansions. Expansion packs were usually around $30 and included 20-40 hours of additional content. DLC packs generally cast about $10 and include 3-5 hours of additional content. So even at their best, spending $30 on DLC packs will yield 15 hours worth of content, as little as half or less of what expansions had.

It's not that I don't WANT the extra content for certain games, it's just that I don't want to spend this much on them. So I usually end up reluctantly buying DLC packs, knowing that expansion packs have gone the way of the dinosaur in favor of a marketing strategy which tips the scales heavily to the developers' advantage.

It certainly captures some of the consumer surplus you used to enjoy, but all firms are going to try to do that with price discrimination schemes. There is no rational reason to weight consumer surplus more than producer surplus, so what the game industry doing isn't wrong.

Sounds like the problem you have isn't with the game industry, but with the profit motive in general.
 

Nouw

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Aby_Z said:
dimensione510 said:
If the demo was any indication, you aren't missing much.
Yea, the demo didn't wow me enough to spark an interest in the game. Not too big a loss.
Next thing you know they cut giant mechs fighting bugs from outer-space in zero-g while dodging planetary weapons. I should of spoiler boxed this... Its my idea... *goes into corner

OT: Thats a shame, I wanted to get Lost Planet 2 because its one of the few decent shooters with a rating I'm allowed to play. Oh well, I'll have to see what is cut and what is not.

2 Minutes Later: Mechs are cut. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

/sarcasm sign needed?
 

hyperdrachen

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Wow this must be a hellacious Capcom game, I've never played one that had enough real content in it to justify a second disk. Not that I dislike capcom games as a rule but hey. Second disk would have been just fine the production costs diffrences are negligible. Your seriously talking about less that a penny on the supply of the extra DVD(speaking from the prices publishing companies pay) even if they sent bob to the electronic store for the extra DVD it comes to a whopping dollar. Its not like disk switching is a new method, the code methods are well known to professional devs. People are crying foul because the content being cut is not being cut not because the scope of the game has become too grand for the production budget and percieved sales. It's being cut for an easily surmountable tech issue.

I love my 360 but yes it has its limitations. The disk space problem is supposed to result in a convinience problem for me, not cut content thats ready for release. It came out before the format war ended. It's not a big deal to me but it will suffer that limitation for it. Poorer textures cause my disc is smaller ok, compressed sound, fine. Missing level, I see that as a snub.

Second reason people are getting huffy is because of an assumtion theyre making. Some devs have gotten in the habit of finishing a game, then selling me 80% of it for 60 bucks and nickle and diming me for access to the rest of the content, which is actually already on the disk through pay DLC. If the game felt like 60 bucks anyway this isnt an issue, but not all games qualify. I will retract my complaint if the missing content shows up as free DLC. Otherwise this is just lazy, and shows a lack of interest in the xbox market. It's thier buisness and they have the right to do that. As I have a right to skip it.

Third, the biggerman "Why do you bother saying that" is equally as inane as anyone commenting they're not buying it. People post things on forums to see the public response to it. Your not mr. coolguy for pointing out that most of our answers don't really mean anything to most of the world. Given that in this case it's very much relevant to note that, unless capcom handles this properly, they'll end up considering what would have hurt revenue more; The extra cost of bringing the content to the user, free DLC or a second disc whatever, or the lost sales due to souring the relationship with would be customers.

The article linked is bizarre, the comment of them being on the verge of tears when it came cut time. Capcom should prolly go chill with square, I think they know a thing or two about that mystical second disk method, and thier offices are closer than bioware.

A side note about an external blue-ray drive suggestions. Drives hooked up through USB ports don't hold a candle speedwise to ones hooked up to SATA, or hell in alot of cases, even IDE cables, used for internal hardware. If you think the PS3 has long load times, wait til you see a USB blue ray drive seek that disk. It's bad I have an external blu-ray on my PC, as well as a backup harddrive. Theyre great for storage, or movies, but embarassing on transfer speeds, bad news for games unless your just gonna install it on the hardrive. If your gonna install it on the harddrive, again, extra disks work just fine.

...Hope there's some sort of escapist achievement for consistant walls of text...
 

clutch-monkey

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Jan 19, 2010
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forza 3 took two discs. it was no more expensive than any other game.

there is no excuse. well actually after playing resident evil games, maybe they have down syndrome..that's a pretty good excuse.
 

Kramcake2516

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Aby_Z said:
dimensione510 said:
If the demo was any indication, you aren't missing much.
Yea, the demo didn't wow me enough to spark an interest in the game. Not too big a loss.
Agreed i myself wont be wasting my money ,pretty much gave up on capcom these days so they can go shove it lol