Lulzsec Members Are Going To Jail

[Sansha]

They broke into and denied access to people's property, stole private and sensitive information, and released that private and sensitive information publicly. They broke certain systems - which took time and money to fix - invaded government/military computers, and one had pedophilia material on his computer.

If you want to make a case as to how that's not morally wrong, then be my guest.

There are degrees of wrongness, which is why we don't have the death penalty or freedom as the only two options.

Earlier, the person I quoted was advocating life imprisonment for these people, purely on the argument that they broke the law.

That is a terrible argument, because the punishment should fit the morality of the crime.

I think their sentencing is fair enough. They'll be up for parole very quickly anyway; within months I'm guessing. It'll be minimum security - they'll basically be with free board and food, only they're not allowed to leave and have a bunch of guards to answer to.

To me, this serves as more of a 'don't fucking do this, seriously' warning to others more than a punishment, and a pretty effective lesson to the convicted themselves about how not to be complete idiots with their computers.

 

[Danny Ocean]

I think their sentencing is fair enough. They'll be up for parole very quickly anyway; within months I'm guessing. It'll be minimum security - they'll basically be with free board and food, only they're not allowed to leave and have a bunch of guards to answer to.

If you read the rest of the guy I'm arguing with you'll see why I'm angry.

I think this sentencing is fine and pretty much proportionate.

I do not agree that we should simply throw them into a hole and lock away the key.

 

[Sansha]

I think their sentencing is fair enough. They'll be up for parole very quickly anyway; within months I'm guessing. It'll be minimum security - they'll basically be with free board and food, only they're not allowed to leave and have a bunch of guards to answer to.

If you read the rest of the guy I'm arguing with you'll see why I'm angry.

I think this sentencing is fine and pretty much proportionate.

I do not agree that we should simply throw them into a hole and lock away the key.

Agreed. They're not murderers, they're not malicious, and they're very likely not going to do so much as tip over a public trash can after actually being caught when they firmly believed they were anonymous and undetectable.

Wanting to throw 'em in the slammer forever is ridiculous - this coming from the same kind of people who criticize the IRAA for their obscene sentencing.

 

[Lunar Templar]

THAT would be 'fair', after all, you commit a crime with a gun, you lose your right to own one, i don't see why computers should be any different, what with the potential damage scale being even higher.

While I don't want to play down the damage someone talented can do with a computer, I've yet to see someone shoot another person in the head with a PC, although I guess you could probably kill with one if you jumped through a few hoops.

Guns are more... Immediate and limited in their uses. Drawing a parallel between them and computers is a little ridiculous.

I would argue the Computer is more dangerous due to who easily some ones life can be destroyed, and these little shits have pretty much proven to have no regard for other people

EVERYTHING LOLSEC DID WAS ILLEGAL.

LEGALITY IS NOT THE SAME THING AS MORALITY. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR.

one could quite easily argue these hackers have about as much in the way of moral standing as most the people against them on this thread.

cause if you can tell me how posting some ones person info, breaking systems that take time and money to fix, taunting the authority, attacked government and military hardware, and apparently one likes looking at little kids.

and your going to seriously try and argue me not give even the slightest fuck what happens to them in prison, is some how worse?

 

[Legion]

Not that they don't deserve it but how exactly did they get caught? Didn't they take any safety measures?

Probably because they weren't anywhere near as good at hacking as they thought. Especially considering the government of pretty much any country can afford to pay good money for people who have far more experience and technical skills than these guys, to hack or trace others.

Let's be honest here, if they were so good that they could hack government level websites or servers and not get caught, they would be millionaires living on a tropical island. If not from doing it themselves, then by selling that knowledge to other people.

 

[Maclennan]

If you want 'sympathy or compassion' for them, talk to some one else, I have none for any criminal that endangers lives or lively hood for laughs.

Wait, what did I miss? What exactly did they do to "endanger lives"?

Hell, what did they do to deserve nearly 2 years of jail time? DDoS some sites and steal protected data for shits and giggles? Slap them on the wrist then.

The targeted companies should be thanking them for exposing the fact that they have terrible network security protocols. Apparently they hacked the FBI and CIA; lulz security indeed.

apprently you missed the 'lively hoods' part of my post.

But since you don't seem to know, lemme fill you in.

EVERYTHING LOLSEC DID WAS ILLEGAL. It's doesn't matter WHY they broke in, they still broke in to a secured server and posted peoples info on line (thus causing a threat to a persons lively hood)

they aren't heroes, they're common gutter trash, no better then a thief who throw a brick threw a window

Agreed, looking at the harm they caused the sentences they received were a slap on the wrist.

I think it was the guardian which tried to sensationalize 30 months as a very lengthy sentence for the crime. I would of expected the sentences to range from 36 to 72 months, when compared to sentences received by con artists adding their own additional indiscretions like the "indecent images of children".

 

[Mayamellissa]

They deserve it. Unlike Anonymous who plan on using their powers for good and enlightenment of others and wish to right wrongs, these morons decided to do what they did. Enjoy prison and hope you get traded for cigs a lot.

 

[Alcaste]

I was directly impacted by the hackings, and had to change a lot of my banking information. It sucks, and ruined a weekend, but it wasn't like they shot my mum or something.

I think the sentence is reasonable, as long as they're monitored when they leave. I hope prison is scary, because that's sort of the point, but I definitely don't wish any actual trauma to them while they're there. Nobody deserves to get raped, and prison rape is a major problem. The fact that some people think that they can justify it is just disgusting - These people are worse than the people going to jail for hacking in some ways.

 

[Eggsnham]

Back in July 2011, members of the Lulzsec collective dared - I mean, literally dared - the authorities to arrest them. So the authorities did.

I'm sitting in the middle of a study-lounge in my college and came dangerously close to bursting out laughing when I read that.

I can't help but "sing" the song I Fought the Law in my head now.

 

[Techno Squidgy]

EVERYTHING LOLSEC DID WAS ILLEGAL

You know, this always bothers me when I see it. I can't really remember what they did, nor do I care that much, but just seeing this sets off alarm bells in my head. The law isn't always right. In fact the law can very easily be twisted by those in power to their own ends, and those ends could be anything from freedom and safety to constant surveillance of citizens or even your own death.

Don't ever swear blindly by the law, always question it, ask why, speak up when things seem amiss.
I believe it's best to maintain a healthy sense of paranoia towards those in power, that way you spot bad intentions before they're acted upon. See SOPA, PIPA, CISPA and that other one.

Failing that, if everything goes tits up we can always have some of those revolution thingies the middle-east seem to be quite fond of at the moment.

EVERYTHING LOLSEC DID WAS ILLEGAL.

LEGALITY IS NOT THE SAME THING AS MORALITY. RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR.

They broke the law: That's all we need to know. Do we really need to create a label to justify it to ourselves?

Fucking yes we do.

What is with all these morons dismissing their fellow man just because they broke the law. Jeez.

This guy gets it! I think...

They deserve it. Unlike Anonymous who plan on using their powers for good and enlightenment of others and wish to right wrongs, these morons decided to do what they did. Enjoy prison and hope you get traded for cigs a lot.

You don't really understand Anonymous do you? Anyone can be part of anonymous, there's no central leadership or anything like that. It's a hivemind basically, there are little clusters all over the internet, mostly on the various *chans. So Anonymous has no goals or intentions. People who act Anonymously have goals and intentions, but ultimately Anonymous is just a vague collection of internet users.

 

[Paradoxrifts]

At least the authorities are no longer locking them up in solitary because they're deathly afraid that the hackers might get the chance to use their magical hacking voodoo whistles [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kevin_Mitnick#Arrest.2C_conviction.2C_and_incarceration] to deploy the nation's nuclear arsenal.

 

[Zeckt]

HA HA!!!

good to see these little hacker shit are going away for a few years from the look of it, maybe some time with their new boy firends will teach them to not do this kinda crap again

They hack some places, and you're cheering at the idea they'll get raped in prison?

Ladies and gentlemen, everything wrong with the current mentality for prison in one sentence.

they hacked some place, laughed about it and Dared people to come after them like they where some kind of gods, for their arrogance they deserve everything they're going to get.

No, I don't have any sympathy for people like this whom break laws and laugh about it like its a game.

Simple thought exercise: What if all these guys were, in fact, women? Would you still be cheering for them to get sexually assaulted in prison? Would they then 'deserve' it?

These guys deserve to go to jail, but if getting sexually assaulted while you're in prison is part of it then it is cruel and unusual punishment. The fact that people think it is utterly hilarious that guys could end up getting raped in prison is horribly disgusting. The only reason I'd even BEGIN TO THINK that was remotely justified is if they were actually rapists, and even that's going too far.

Why is a woman getting raped any worse or less humiliating then it is for a man? Can I simply hope that no one gets raped? Anyways, I don't want to derail the the topic into some stupid rape thing I was merely making a point.

 

[Total LOLige]

Showing once again that these people just don't have any pattern recognition. I mean, really. What dumbasses. You mess around with computers and screw around with your GREAT custom job machine, and...what? You don't think that police, government agents, etc. don't have MUCH better hardware and software, plus better training? How shall I put this?

I hate to be "that guy" but that's not a Bob Marley song. What is it with people on youtube misslabeling popular reggae songs as Bob Marley, Bad Boys doesn't even come close to the awesomeness of Bob.

OT: I read on the guardian website that the leader being tried in the US is facing up to 124 years or something, that's a little harsh. Four years seems about right to me considering they didn't do that much, well maybe the hacking of Soca and CIA is a bit of a bigger deal. This got me thinking about sentences, would the have got longer if attacks were financially motivated? Surely doing it for no reason at all is worse

 

[FalloutJack]

Not Marley!

That's okay, dude. It wasn't me who labeled it that way. I just needed the song.

BTW: About the leader? Ummm...I didn't want to be the guy who says it, but the sum total of Lulsec's doings can be construed as a form of terrorism. To whit, it is the cause of rampant damage for no particularly good reason. True, it is up to debate as to whether anybody was hurt, but anybody who lost something of value (like lots of money) would certainly be hurt in the 'cost of living' sort of way. Anyway, it's not really mine to say. They did a thing, it was stupid and illegal, and now they pay. Simple as that.

 

[Elate]

Why is a woman getting raped any worse or less humiliating then it is for a man? Can I simply hope that no one gets raped? Anyways, I don't want to derail the the topic into some stupid rape thing I was merely making a point.

It isn't, but that was kind of his point, that people cheer it on if it's males going to prison, but would be disgusted if it were a female. It's a very unhealthy attitude society has.

That assumes death is the 'worst possible outcome' though, and it's kinda not. Your not going to care about identity theft, and the damage that comes with it, when your dead.

Death isn't the worst possible outcome? So you're saying that say, you'd rather a member of your family shot, and killed, than their identity stolen? Which is recoverable?

..I'm done here.

 

[Caiphus]

]You know, everytime I read something kinda stupid I see their profile and hope they are from USA, that way my irrational hate for Americans becomes more rational.

*check profile for country and laughs*
And thank you for re-enforcing my own irrational hate of the French, by basically being the stereotype.

More dangerous than a bullet to the brain is a rather high order.

That assumes death is the 'worst possible outcome' though, and it's kinda not. Your not going to care about identity theft, and the damage that comes with it, when your dead.

You aren't going to care about anything if you're dead. Does that make death the best possible outcome?

Edit: You are correct though. Prolonged periods of torture and rape are arguably worse than death.[footnote] See: Josef Fritzl, Ariel Castro [/footnote] This is, strangely, what you seem to advocate should happen to criminals - even rather petty ones.

 

[Lunar Templar]

You aren't going to care about anything if you're dead. Does that make death the best possible outcome?

Edit: You are correct though. Prolonged periods of torture and rape are arguably worse than death. This is, strangely, what you seem to advocate should happen to criminals - even rather petty ones.

You really think any of them are going to serve all of their sentences? personally, I give em six months at most before they're out, and maybe a year total at most before the authority stop caring about them.

*shrugs* I tend to not care what happens to people who start thinking they are above the rules lay out for them. Petty crimes or not, at this point, I could not care less what happens to them, if that makes me a 'bad person' fine, I've been called worse, least I'm not breaking any laws.

 

[Alcaste]

You aren't going to care about anything if you're dead. Does that make death the best possible outcome?

Edit: You are correct though. Prolonged periods of torture and rape are arguably worse than death. This is, strangely, what you seem to advocate should happen to criminals - even rather petty ones.

You really think any of them are going to serve all of their sentences? personally, I give em six months at most before they're out, and maybe a year total at most before the authority stop caring about them.

*shrugs* I tend to not care what happens to people who start thinking they are above the rules lay out for them. Petty crimes or not, at this point, I could not care less what happens to them, if that makes me a 'bad person' fine, I've been called worse, least I'm not breaking any laws.

I break the law all the time. I've jaywalked on an empty street, I've downloaded a few songs in my time, and I've definitely loitered.

Should I be raped and tortured in prison? Probably.

 

[Caiphus]

You aren't going to care about anything if you're dead. Does that make death the best possible outcome?

Edit: You are correct though. Prolonged periods of torture and rape are arguably worse than death. This is, strangely, what you seem to advocate should happen to criminals - even rather petty ones.

You really think any of them are going to serve all of their sentences? personally, I give em six months at most before they're out, and maybe a year total at most before the authority stop caring about them.

*shrugs* I tend to not care what happens to people who start thinking they are above the rules lay out for them. Petty crimes or not, at this point, I could not care less what happens to them, if that makes me a 'bad person' fine, I've been called worse, least I'm not breaking any laws.

I don't think they'll serve their entire sentences; although I'm no expert on the prison system, much less the prison systems outside my country. They inconvenienced my life in a pretty minor way, although the guy with child porn should be hit harder. Anything much more than a year in prison is probably excessive in my book for what they did. [footnote]http://xkcd.com/932/[/footnote]Your mileage may vary, and that's fine within reason. You might think that 3 years is more appropriate, whatever.

But publicly hoping that "their boyfriends teach them a lesson" or whatever is not fine. It's just plain silly and evil. And it's a lot different to "not caring about what happens to them".

Edit: And you're not the only one. You just defended your position much more aggressively than everyone else when called out on it, so I'm picking on you.

 

[Lunar Templar]

You aren't going to care about anything if you're dead. Does that make death the best possible outcome?

Edit: You are correct though. Prolonged periods of torture and rape are arguably worse than death. This is, strangely, what you seem to advocate should happen to criminals - even rather petty ones.

You really think any of them are going to serve all of their sentences? personally, I give em six months at most before they're out, and maybe a year total at most before the authority stop caring about them.

*shrugs* I tend to not care what happens to people who start thinking they are above the rules lay out for them. Petty crimes or not, at this point, I could not care less what happens to them, if that makes me a 'bad person' fine, I've been called worse, least I'm not breaking any laws.

I don't think they'll serve their entire sentences; although I'm no expert on the prison system, much less the prison systems outside my country. They inconvenienced my life in a pretty minor way, although the guy with child porn should be hit harder. Anything much more than a year in prison is probably excessive in my book for what they did. [footnote]http://xkcd.com/932/[/footnote]Your mileage may vary, and that's fine within reason. You might think that 3 years is more appropriate, whatever.

But publicly hoping that "their boyfriends teach them a lesson" or whatever is not fine. It's just plain silly and evil. And it's a lot different to "not caring about what happens to them".

I was wondering when that comic was gonna show up. I'd say 'surprised it took this long' but I only come back to this thread when quoted. better things to do an all, I know my view on these matters is 'not popular' to say the least.

And we're to lax here imo, 'Time served for good behavior' annoys me, for example. I didn't get out of being in trouble 'for be good' after I got in trouble, and here we have people do far worse things getting out of their punishments for basically that. *shakes head*

Anyway right, wrong or 'evil', it's where it is, and I'm not apologizing for it. Joke in poor taste? eeyup, I'm good for those, did I mean it when I said they could get hit by a bus and killed and I wouldn't care, eeyup, the comment for that story would probably be 'nothing of value lost', do I have a more extreme view of how criminals should be treated then others on this site, yes, not apologizing for that ether, the justice system is fucked and needs fixing.

anyway, we're gonna start going around in circles here soon, and I really don't feel like finding new ways of say 'what ever happens to these little shits means nothing at all to me' just cause some one dislikes just how apathetic I am toward them. Later