Male Protagonists
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
This again. It's uncanny how I got more quotes for saying "space isn't cold" than for the actual topic of macho men.Foshorror said:
No, space isn't cold. Temperature is a property of matter, and deep space has surprisingly little. The background temperature of 3 Kelvin merely means that any exposed matter will radiate heat until it reaches that temperature, but unlike heat transfer (in a medium such as air or water), heat radiation is a slow process. Space isn't "hot" in the vicinity of a star, it isn't anything. There's nothing to be heated. It's just that sunlight still hits anything drifting around, and without an insulation from an atmosphere, the thing heats up really fast.
And no, an engine running with no radiators will not have trouble keeping warm; in fact, it'll likely melt itself. Operating a rocket engine produces enormous amounts of heat, which is all fine while you're in the atmosphere, since the heat is transferred to the surrounding air. While you're in space, the heat has nowhere to go via conduction since the ship is touching nothing, and it's created at a far greater pace than it is radiated.
The "faulty cooling system that keeps pumping even when the engines are off" sounds much more plausible, and it actually explains the effect that Yahtzee wants. Especially if it's the future and cooling technology has become awesome - except when you can't shut it down.
Male Commander Shepard fits both descriptions perfectly. Manly man paragon, macho man renegade. Would have liked the voice actor to put a little more effort and emotion into his voice, but we'll see with ME3.
Had to slim down the quote, so this post wasn't wayyy too long =)InterAirplay said:
Anyway, I know what kind of character he is talking about...Marcus Phoenix. But, the fact of the matter is....I really like Marcus as a character. Before I get people saying that I am a 13 year old XBL kid who thinks that is what it means to be a real man; I am 19, and have dial-up (so no XBL). I, personally, don't want a protagonist that is vulnerable or soft; I just want a badass who blows **** up!
I don't know about anyone else, but I play video games to feel powerful (i know this says something about my psychological state, but lets not go into that right now....i'm looking at you Freud...), and not to play as the average Joe in an unaverage situation. To me, these characters are the escapism I'm looking for in games. But, it all boils down to personal taste; so there is nothing I can say to change anyone's mind, I'm simply trying to state why I, personally, like characters like Marcus Phoenix.
Being a mans man, who likes to blow shit up doesn't necessarily make a character macho (in Yahtzees terminology). You also don't have to be a suave softie to be manly rather than macho. The problem comes when you stray into Stupid Evil territory.
I find it difficult to play the evil or brutal person in games that allow those sorts of choices, and usually find the bad-for-badassness-sake character less interesting for much the same reason. Take f.inst Fallout 3: The choice to blow up Megaton is a good way to get an early jumpstart on being bad. But it feels utterly retarded to me that you would do it, even if you were an evil fuck who didn't care for the people: What could Tenpenny possibly offer you, that you couldn't get or steal in the town he proposes you blow up? You are hurting your own cause for a bit of cash and a chance to show you are a real bastard. Yay??
The "macho" characters often do this: shout angrily at people who are supposed to be allies, use explosives and guns as the first and only solution to any problem. They are, in a word, shallow, and often rather stupid in how they go about their particular apocalyptic crisis. Give us badass protagonists by all means; explosions, powerarmor and BFGs are cool enough. Just hand them a brain on the way out, please.
I find it difficult to play the evil or brutal person in games that allow those sorts of choices, and usually find the bad-for-badassness-sake character less interesting for much the same reason. Take f.inst Fallout 3: The choice to blow up Megaton is a good way to get an early jumpstart on being bad. But it feels utterly retarded to me that you would do it, even if you were an evil fuck who didn't care for the people: What could Tenpenny possibly offer you, that you couldn't get or steal in the town he proposes you blow up? You are hurting your own cause for a bit of cash and a chance to show you are a real bastard. Yay??
The "macho" characters often do this: shout angrily at people who are supposed to be allies, use explosives and guns as the first and only solution to any problem. They are, in a word, shallow, and often rather stupid in how they go about their particular apocalyptic crisis. Give us badass protagonists by all means; explosions, powerarmor and BFGs are cool enough. Just hand them a brain on the way out, please.
Isn't it a bit unfair to lump WW Prince in with the Macho crowd?
Sure, he's all angry and has tattoos on his arm, but other than that he still pretty much fits the "manly" description. Armour that's both streamlined and protective, swords designed for swift, acrobatic combat, and he doesn't have Liefeldian muscle mass. So really the only macho part was the personality, and even then he still managed to display some emotion other than just "Grr Grr Death Grr", specifically, "For the first time in my life, I am scared." Really, the only reason he was always angry was because he had no friends around to calm him down a bit. Or at the very least, some soothing tea.
Sure, he's all angry and has tattoos on his arm, but other than that he still pretty much fits the "manly" description. Armour that's both streamlined and protective, swords designed for swift, acrobatic combat, and he doesn't have Liefeldian muscle mass. So really the only macho part was the personality, and even then he still managed to display some emotion other than just "Grr Grr Death Grr", specifically, "For the first time in my life, I am scared." Really, the only reason he was always angry was because he had no friends around to calm him down a bit. Or at the very least, some soothing tea.
I actually came across a game a while back about a power-armored space marine type guy, except he was polite and actually soft-spoken. Kinda caught my attention a bit.
Shame the game sucked. And sucked hard.
*EDIT*
Oh, and if you want a very well done character that falls under the "can't do anything too well except kill", try watching Soldier.
Stars Kurt Russel as a man who was trained from birth to be a soldier, and nothing but.
Says maybe 40 words the whole film, and yet he MAKES the film. And when he does speak, his voice is very soft. And his backstory gives a good reason for him being crappy at housework. The guy was taken as a kid and raised to be a soldier, with no chance to get anything else. And yet, at the same time, he has emotions. Even if he's very poor at showing them in a normal manner.
Shame the game sucked. And sucked hard.
*EDIT*
Oh, and if you want a very well done character that falls under the "can't do anything too well except kill", try watching Soldier.
Stars Kurt Russel as a man who was trained from birth to be a soldier, and nothing but.
Says maybe 40 words the whole film, and yet he MAKES the film. And when he does speak, his voice is very soft. And his backstory gives a good reason for him being crappy at housework. The guy was taken as a kid and raised to be a soldier, with no chance to get anything else. And yet, at the same time, he has emotions. Even if he's very poor at showing them in a normal manner.
I felt that the original Dead to Rights Jack Slate was actually a fairly balanced character. He wasn't overly muscular, had a normal sounding voice, and made genuinely funny one liners. Not only that, but was blindsided by a woman he trusted even though he shouldn't have. Of course Dead to Rights 2 just turned him into a walking pile of muscles and rage, but that's another story. Overall, I feel that the whole professional wrestler, over the top psycho man is something that needs to by and large go away. There are times when it could be appropriate, in games where all you're doing is screaming and hitting things, but in a game that's supposed to have a decent story line, the main character should not be a walking pile of muscles and rage.
macho. he forced that guy in God of War 1 to do the scholarly stuff and he kills basically just for fun becuase things are too weak to stop him. Sure he can fuck aphrodite, but everything else makes him simply macho and not manly at all.Macgyvercas said:
THANK YOU.
Having gone blue in the face explaining to women why being manly is different to being a dick, this has thoroughly proven my point and given me a quiet sense of satisfaction. Like a manly man would have, having saved the day, but choosing not to brag because he isn't brash or arrogant.
Just download a story from Bio-ware
It'll save you the hassle!
Sounds like Fun Space Game is really coming along- do keep us posted (when you feel it's worth posting about)
Having gone blue in the face explaining to women why being manly is different to being a dick, this has thoroughly proven my point and given me a quiet sense of satisfaction. Like a manly man would have, having saved the day, but choosing not to brag because he isn't brash or arrogant.
Just download a story from Bio-ware
It'll save you the hassle!Sounds like Fun Space Game is really coming along- do keep us posted (when you feel it's worth posting about)
I'm showing this article to Bob.
As for my personal opinions, I tend to agree on everything but appearance. Maybe it was in the subtext and I missed it, or it's too obvious to be mentioned, but just in case: I tend not to judge characters by appearance... okay well I do, but not in terms of being a man versus being a man whose hiding something. To me, the question as to whether someone's macho or manly boils down to their emotional being almost solely with little relevance to how they look and their weapon choice. Gotta go.
As for my personal opinions, I tend to agree on everything but appearance. Maybe it was in the subtext and I missed it, or it's too obvious to be mentioned, but just in case: I tend not to judge characters by appearance... okay well I do, but not in terms of being a man versus being a man whose hiding something. To me, the question as to whether someone's macho or manly boils down to their emotional being almost solely with little relevance to how they look and their weapon choice. Gotta go.
nice read
I think the reason alot of games use Macho characters because you cant really screw it up
while a manly character has to somewhat flawed without being a dick
I think the reason alot of games use Macho characters because you cant really screw it up
while a manly character has to somewhat flawed without being a dick
Which certain ones? Reading over this thread, I've noticed that there really aren't any examples being given of these overly macho characters and what behavior they're engaging in. Kratos is the only one I see, but even the people who bring him up seem to be excusing him. My video game collection certainly isn't full of them. So who are all of these characters that everybody is complaining about?InterAirplay said:
Complaining about there being too many macho men in games is just one of those things that has become fashionable.
I didn't get that Marcus Phoenix was a "macho man" from his character, which I figured to be something like "grizzled and somewhat disillusioned military veteran who would like nothing more than to retire and forget the things he's seen but instead has to fight another godamn war". but something about his over the top voice acting coupled with the fact that he had a set of shoulders where his neck should be made me think that this was not a character to be taken seriously. Perhaps I was being shallow there.