Male victims of sexual violence in games, comics, movies, whatever.

[Vinculi]

So what is the discussion here? Seems like we are just discussing instances of man rape in movies and games.

It was more intended to be about the different way male sexual violence and exploitation is treated in entertainment media. Its not used as a "tragic backstory" or character building anything like that, in games its almost never referenced (except for the naked boxing match), although the depiction in films is a bit more varied than I had expected.

I was wondering if there was anything like Sin city(two female character that were not prostitutes, IIRC) in reverse, and whether anyone had any suggestions as to why not, and what the reaction might be.

Eh, discussions get away from you, thanks for being chatty, anyhow.

For female on male victimisation, though, it's a tricky one because arguably you can't rape without a penis

Ugh....thanks for that....amazing insight.

It's not really "arguable" since there are documented cases of men being raped by women.

I think he was referring to the fact that the law defines rape that way in some places (someone referenced this properly above, so ask him about it)



I feel like the only person who hasn't seen Devliverance.

 

[CaptainMarvelous]

For female on male victimisation, though, it's a tricky one because arguably you can't rape without a penis

Ugh....thanks for that....amazing insight.

It's not really "arguable" since there are documented cases of men being raped by women.

I mean in the sense that rape is penetration without consent, not just sex without consent. But like I said, there are still ways that it might count, like by using implements.

Then doesn't that definition have a fault? If you define Rape as 'non-consential sexual intercourse' the numbers shoot up, defining it in a way that makes it impossible just seems... well, it'd be like saying "It's not rape unless the man finishes inside her", moving the goal-posts doesn't change the severity of it.

Also slightly OT:

The Boondocks episode with the Booty Warrior. That was coupled with Tom's own attitude's towards anal rape and even though the show does play it for laughs (Chris Hansen being caught BY a predator was somehow fitting) it was still clearly illustrating the mental trauma it causes to people.

 

[GameMaNiAC]

Can we please stop talking about these things and focus on the games themselves?

Seriously, this is a gaming forum. Every time I come here I read something about rape in a depressing way. We don't really seem to be discussing games anymore, as far as I can tell.

I realize this is an important subject and that it is something we should discuss about gaming, if it is meant to be taken seriously and as art, but it should not be the only thing we talk about.

 

[MeChaNiZ3D]

See, there have been trivial discussions here and there about male characters being raped in movies and whatnot. But these have all still taken place in a male-dominated society and are often done for comedic effect. Any of the things mentioned as examples in the OP, I would find disturbing. Like, Sucker Punch, but gender swapped, I would find very disturbing. I'm a male of course, maybe females would enjoy that sort of thing. But nobody seems to make it, so that discussion isn't being had yet. All I can say is I wouldn't like it.

 

[wintercoat]

Can we please stop talking about these things and focus on the games themselves?

Seriously, this is a gaming forum. Every time I come here I read something about rape in a depressing way. We don't really seem to be discussing games anymore, as far as I can tell.

I realize this is an important subject and that it is something we should discuss about gaming, if it is meant to be taken seriously and as art, but it should not be the only thing we talk about.

You want to talk about games? Then stick to the Games forum. It's there for a reason. I am sick of people coming into the Offtopic forum and complaining that we're talking about something other than games because the current topic upsets them, or they feel like a topic is overdiscussed. What's next, you gonna crawl into the R&P forum and complain people are talking about politics? Complaining that we're talking about something unrelated to games in the Offtopic forum is just...ridiculous.

 

[MammothBlade]

It's implied a lot more than it's actually shown. Superheroes get raped practically every time there's a tentacle monster. As a professional tentacle rapist it disappoints me that the explicit stuff is not more mainstream.

 

[gazumped]

I mean in the sense that rape is penetration without consent, not just sex without consent. But like I said, there are still ways that it might count, like by using implements.

Then doesn't that definition have a fault? If you define Rape as 'non-consential sexual intercourse' the numbers shoot up, defining it in a way that makes it impossible just seems... well, it'd be like saying "It's not rape unless the man finishes inside her", moving the goal-posts doesn't change the severity of it.

That is, of course, a huge problem with rape, for men and women, so many people unsure of what it means and what it constitutes as, a lot of people now saying that if you have sex with someone who's inebriated it automatically counts as rape, it counting as rape if you have sex with a minor even if they're fully developed and were consenting.

With fiction it's a sort of safe-zone to define this kind of thing, as the viewers know exactly what transpired and have an insight into the intent and experience of the characters, but in irl events of course it's a lot harder for outside parties to be able to judge how much of a victim the victim is.

The penetration definition, I think, is more to separate the cases that have an emotional effect on the victim (emotionally, sexually violated) from those that have an emotional and physical effect on the victim (emotionally, sexually, physically violated, plus actual bodily harm).

I feel like the only person who hasn't seen Devliverance.

I haven't either!

 

[maninahat]

Rape always features an element of power play. The aggressor is empowered, the victim is demeaned. This is especially problematic for male victims, as there is a societal expectation for men to be powerful figures (in terms of courage, strength, protectiveness etc.). As rape subverts that power, there is a much greater sense of humiliation or shame. As comedy loves strong figures being undermined, male rape ends up being a subject of humour.

In Super, the protagonist is raped by Ellen Page's character in one scene. The next scene, the two go off together to fight the villain, the rape never being mentioned again. Whilst the rape scene is clearly unpleasant, it is also played for laughs. It tells you a great deal about how gender aspects work in regards to rape. Had Ellen been raped, we'd all hate the male character - he would be a villain for the rest of the film, and she would be a poor, "broken bird". In other words, society's perception of rape has one hell of a double standard problem

 

[maninahat]

Can we please stop talking about these things and focus on the games themselves?

Seriously, this is a gaming forum. Every time I come here I read something about rape in a depressing way. We don't really seem to be discussing games anymore, as far as I can tell.

I realize this is an important subject and that it is something we should discuss about gaming, if it is meant to be taken seriously and as art, but it should not be the only thing we talk about.

Well, I suppose you could stop talking about them if you like. You can ignore this discussion entirely and stick to gaming, whilst we carry it on.

 

[Vinculi]

See, there have been trivial discussions here and there about male characters being raped in movies and whatnot. But these have all still taken place in a male-dominated society and are often done for comedic effect. Any of the things mentioned as examples in the OP, I would find disturbing. Like, Sucker Punch, but gender swapped, I would find very disturbing. I'm a male of course, maybe females would enjoy that sort of thing. But nobody seems to make it, so that discussion isn't being had yet. All I can say is I wouldn't like it.

I feel like that's probably the reason, are publishers scared that people wont buy a game or read a comic if it might make them uncomfortable? Does it come down to the people that publish entertainment just not being willing to depict these things? Sounds likely, I guess.

 

[James Joseph Emerald]

ys that it might count, like by using implements.

There is a surprisingly large amount of films with male rape in them:

http://www.listal.com/movies/male+rape

Oddly enough a lot of them seem to be romantic comedies aimed at women...

I'd take that list with a pinch of salt, maybe I'm not remembering them correctly but the only two films I've seen from that bunch (Bad Santa and Bridesmaids) don't have male rape. In Bridesmaids a woman comes on to a guy kind of strong at one point and it makes him uncomfortable, that's about the worst thing that happens, to my memory?

I haven't seen most of the films on the list, so I can't be sure of all of them.
But I've seen the top 3 on the list, Pulp Fiction, Deliverance and American History X, and they all depict on-screen male-on-male rape. So maybe they're ordered by relevance?
You should seriously watch those films by the way, they're really good (uh, despite the male rape).

Captcha: Top Drawer
Indeed.


As for examples in games, I actually can't think of any really.

 

[Carpenter]

Rape is not "penetration without consent" and that backwards line of thinking is exactly why it's such an issue. Even if it was, you can easily point out that said woman is forcing him to penetrate her, without consent. Penetration without consent, she is raping him.

I understand you are trying to argue some kind of technicality, but you simply have it wrong here. I won't go into details, but not all rape (of women or men) involves penetration.

I think partially it is a case of different definitions by law, also it's hard to deny that having something forced inside a person's orifices is a bigger deal than other kinds of sexual assault purely on the basis that it can cause a lot of damage. On the emotional side, though, it is much more of a grey area, yes.

Are you seriously trying to argue that a man being raped by a woman is not as bad as a woman being raped by a man?

Ok, then I'm done with you. You're either a troll or disturbingly uneducated.

 

[sveisen]

If there's talk about rape in games, the japanese has alot of all types, mostly depicted in the most perverse way, but there are some which actually have some meaning for the story other that just for "pleasure" material.

 

[Carpenter]

So what is the discussion here? Seems like we are just discussing instances of man rape in movies and games.

It was more intended to be about the different way male sexual violence and exploitation is treated in entertainment media. Its not used as a "tragic backstory" or character building anything like that, in games its almost never referenced (except for the naked boxing match), although the depiction in films is a bit more varied than I had expected.

I was wondering if there was anything like Sin city(two female character that were not prostitutes, IIRC) in reverse, and whether anyone had any suggestions as to why not, and what the reaction might be.

Eh, discussions get away from you, thanks for being chatty, anyhow.

For female on male victimisation, though, it's a tricky one because arguably you can't rape without a penis

Ugh....thanks for that....amazing insight.

It's not really "arguable" since there are documented cases of men being raped by women.

I think he was referring to the fact that the law defines rape that way in some places (someone referenced this properly above, so ask him about it)



I feel like the only person who hasn't seen Devliverance.

Well there are a few games where it happens, as somebody mentioned SA ( a few times) and Bully, but of course it won't be done in video games that often, even the rape of a female is not touched upon that much in video games.

Yes you can argue that Japanese games do, but they also depict a lot of female and male on male rape in their games. Problem is those are almost always made for purely pornographic purposes. Say what you want about American developers, at least when somebody is getting raped, it's considered a bad thing, not something to derive enjoyment from.

Your other comment, that they just won't do it because it would make people uncomfortable. Why would they want to do it? There are interesting ways to depict it maybe but for the most part it would just be seen as something exploitative. Gamers seem to be the first ones to complain about "offensive content" in a video game or trailer nowadays.

I would love to see a time when games can tackle such issues like rape, serial murder, school shootings, or torture but as it is now, I don't see anyone handling that properly.

 

[Carpenter]

See, there have been trivial discussions here and there about male characters being raped in movies and whatnot. But these have all still taken place in a male-dominated society and are often done for comedic effect. Any of the things mentioned as examples in the OP, I would find disturbing. Like, Sucker Punch, but gender swapped, I would find very disturbing. I'm a male of course, maybe females would enjoy that sort of thing. But nobody seems to make it, so that discussion isn't being had yet. All I can say is I wouldn't like it.

Sucker punch gender swapped? That japanese anime (or was it a game) where a boy is in a school full of girls that are constantly tying him up and raping him.

It's pornographic, so apparently it's not considered that disturbing. It also features boys being tortured in various ways in "fetish" ways but not consenting.
I think that's much worse than what sucker punch portrays.

Hustler (I think) featured a comic series depicting a sci fi world run by women that basically lobotomize men and keep them as brainwashed pets and sex slaves.


No offense, but this "male dominated society" stuff is bordering on paranoid and delusional. I know people get jumped on for saying this, but I think things are starting to sway the other way in a very disturbing way. Men are being dehumanized as creatures with no emotions. Yes women are still stereotypes as emotional loving creatures, but that's not quite as bad IMO. I think both sets of stereotypes need to be removed.

If anything, the fact that a female being raped on television or in movies needs to be taken very seriously and carefully while male rape can be used as throwaway jokes says something about this so called "male dominated society."

Oh before I forget, cracked did an article where they talked about an old sitcom (sorry don't remember the name) where a man gets kidnapped, held against his will, and raped. It's played for laughs the entire time.

 

[Relish in Chaos]

Oh, and there was an episode of Holby City where, I think, a man got drunk after a night in the pub with his friends and stumbled into some bushes or something, where he was raped by a man who also stuck a bunch of objects into his anus that they had to remove when the victim was later recovering in his hospital. He was adamant about not trying to find and charge the man, but when he later walked past him in the hospital, he identified him and allowed them to arrest him.

And in the graphic novel Watchmen, I think it?s implied that Hooded Justice used to go out and sexually abuse rent boys/teenage runaways or something like that, so the first Silk Spectre?s agent had to cover it up. The abused males in question aren?t actually depicted, though.

 

[Carpenter]

Rape always features an element of power play. The aggressor is empowered, the victim is demeaned. This is especially problematic for male victims, as there is a societal expectation for men to be powerful figures (in terms of courage, strength, protectiveness etc.). As rape subverts that power, there is a much greater sense of humiliation or shame. As comedy loves strong figures being undermined, male rape ends up being a subject of humour.

In Super, the protagonist is raped by Ellen Page's character in one scene. The next scene, the two go off together to fight the villain, the rape never being mentioned again. Whilst the rape scene is clearly unpleasant, it is also played for laughs. It tells you a great deal about how gender aspects work in regards to rape. Had Ellen been raped, we'd all hate the male character - he would be a villain for the rest of the film, and she would be a poor, "broken bird". In other words, society's perception of rape has one hell of a double standard problem

As I pointed out before, I kind of felt like it wasn't "played for laughs" unless the individual found it funny. The fact that he immediately hallucinates his wife's face telling him to go kill a bunch of people kind of showed how his delusional state deals with such trauma.

Still, I am no expert and maybe it was just a throwaway joke, I just think there was a lot of meaning in the way they handled that. You would be surprised by how many rape victims and victims of other traumas will immerse themselves in some sort of fantasy or delusion.

 

[II2]

Mr. Gone, the "super villain" from Sam Keith's "The MAXX" is a serial killer and rapist, whose spree was preceeded by his own violation as a child, explored in depth in the 2nd half of the series, occuring after a 10 year jump forward in the stories time and looking at what, if any, repentance can be had for his past wrongdoings.

It's a pretty warped, heavy, graphic novel. It was also adapted into a MTV cartoon in the early 90's, which is an excellent series, that regrettably only had one season including the first 11 of 30-ish total issues.