Man Goes to Jail for Being an Internet Troll

[microwaviblerabbit]

Well, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about when it comes to other countries in various debates where I talk about how the US has the highest level of freedom and human rights in the world, then someone fires back that it's not true and points out how their nation (which will be something like the UK) is ahead of us according to some statistic or poll, and then something like this happens.

To be honest, I see both sides of the equasion, and why people want to curtail behaviors like this, but to be honest dealing with jerks is the lesser of two evils when it comes to putting people in jail for being jerks given that it opens so much room for abuse.

What's more, freedom of speech, doesn't just mean "freedom of speech you like or agree with" but the freedom to say what you want without these kinds of consequences. Once you start regulating the jerks, it turns into people simply wanting to regulate anyone they don't agree with.

There is no requirement that you have to be nice to anyone, that you have to like everyone, or that you have to remain silent about those you don't like. That's what freedom is all about.

Yes, words can hurt, and do a lot of damage, but as Heinlan put it "You can either have freedom or safety, never both".

That's simply my take on things. There is no doubt in my mind that this guy was an obnoxious trouble maker, indeed he reminds me vaguely of Fred Phelps without the religious overtones, but the police shoulx not have been involved, and sending him to jail was both overkill, and an affront to human rights.

He clearly crossed the line from freedom of speech to harassment. Freedom of speech allows for opinions and such to be voiced, it does not allow you to follow someone yelling 'fag' or to yell 'fire' in a crowded theater for kicks. The key is the harm principle - does the act intentionally cause harm to others and/or cause harm unintentionally that could have been reasonably avoided? In this case it clearly does, so the charges are justified.

All countries put people in prison for being jerks, you just have to be enough of one to start causing harm to others - spousal abuse, vandalism, hate speech, harassment, drink driving, fraud.

 

[I Max95]

he deserved it
free speech doesnt protect obscenety and who says Obscenity cant be written

 

[lizards]

Well, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about when it comes to other countries in various debates where I talk about how the US has the highest level of freedom and human rights in the world, then someone fires back that it's not true and points out how their nation (which will be something like the UK) is ahead of us according to some statistic or poll, and then something like this happens.

To be honest, I see both sides of the equasion, and why people want to curtail behaviors like this, but to be honest dealing with jerks is the lesser of two evils when it comes to putting people in jail for being jerks given that it opens so much room for abuse.

What's more, freedom of speech, doesn't just mean "freedom of speech you like or agree with" but the freedom to say what you want without these kinds of consequences. Once you start regulating the jerks, it turns into people simply wanting to regulate anyone they don't agree with.

There is no requirement that you have to be nice to anyone, that you have to like everyone, or that you have to remain silent about those you don't like. That's what freedom is all about.

Yes, words can hurt, and do a lot of damage, but as Heinlan put it "You can either have freedom or safety, never both".

That's simply my take on things. There is no doubt in my mind that this guy was an obnoxious trouble maker, indeed he reminds me vaguely of Fred Phelps without the religious overtones, but the police shoulx not have been involved, and sending him to jail was both overkill, and an affront to human rights.

you want to know why people dont do this in real life? because their ass would be kicked flattened and made into a nice pancake batter

but this is the internet, that cant happen here, but regardless the police would come and remove you if you went to a funeral claiming you fucked the dead body of the dead person and generally be charged of something, why would the internet be any different?

 

[jebbo]

But I'm having a hard time believing that someone is going to jail for it. Any society that puts people in prison for being a dick is a society that's in deep trouble indeed.

It's more than just being a dick. Actually I find the whole article badly written and obviously poorly researched, showing a complete lack of understanding for the cultural differences between the US and the UK - your final sentence, quoted above, is basically inferring that the moral fibre of the UK is in some way lacking compared to that of America.

Saying that this man is a "troll" demeans how serious what he did was. The Jade Goody issue is split in the UK a celebrity some love and some love to hate for various reasons but the John Paul Messey issue is completely disgusting.

A four year old boy was mauled to death by a dog and this guy posts on a memorial website frequented by friends and family that he had sex with corpse? If you stalk or harass a person or group causing distress you get a restraining order or incarcerated for a short time. The same should be true if the harassment is done via the internet.

And everyone talking about 4chan needs to think about what they are saying, this wasn't a bunch of random shit posted on a website known for its filth, this was a direct and deliberate attack intended for nothing but gaining gratification from someone else's suffering.

EDIT:

The Jade Goody sites deserved it. The boy, however, did not.

Yeah Jade was a *****.

Jade Goody was not a *****. She was a completely uneducated and pretty thick Chav but she doesn't deserve the abuse many people in the UK dish out in the name of 'banter'. Remember the woman died of cervical cancer in her 20's (a completely preventable disease in modern society and something that has prompted thousands of women to go for smear tests that previously didn't) and left behind two children. Think about that next time you make a joke.

 

[TheAmazingTGIF]

Nah, I'm good with this being a crime. He still got to say it, though.

I am more than OK with him being proclaimed a massive tool, it is the implications. Will I be arrested for this post?

Certain kinds of speech are NOT protected. "I fucked your dead child" is one of the unprotected ones.

Secretly not what "free speech" means...

oh, but he was free to speak his mind. and he was free to get arrested for it too.
it's like saying you can't eat poison mushrooms. sure you can, but only once.

i'm glad he did get arrested. if people on the internet feel more threatened, it may cut down on the trolling at least a little bit, since banning is highly inneficient.

It may cut down trolling at what cost? "Those Who Sacrifice Liberty For Security Deserve Neither", Ben Franklin.

Shout "I've got a fucking bomb" in an airport and see how free your speech is. There is no free speech unless you understand it as the ability to say what you want but you may have to accept the consequences.

That technically isn't free speech, that is a threat that endangers other people. Is this guy a massive massive tool who deserves to be beat and left in a ditch? Of course! Should he be arrested and tried in a government court because he is such a huge douchebag? No.

Are we going to start jailing people for saying, "Hey, I think the Nazi's were right?" It is insensitive and borderline racist but you can still say it without repercussions. The point of free speech is to be FREE of consequences.

Actually, no that's not what free speech is about. Free speech is about being able to express your thoughts and ideas about the government and in artistic media without worrying about the government bringing down the hammer on you. Free speech is not about letting dicks say anything they want to grieving families because they find it to be fun.

OT: A little strict of a sentence, but he deserved it.

No, free speech is about saying whatever you want, whenever you want without fear of government repercussions? Will someone beat the hell out you for saying this? Of course, and it will be well deserved but the government shouldn't be involved.

 

[Charli]

Then again, I don't think the U.K> constitution gives free speech and such... Since it's under a monarchy. So it's probably whatever the king or queen decides.

Haha aww you made my day. /Pat ...you need to read more dear, but that was cute... really.

Also yeah I guess I agree with what everyone else was saying, you weren't just baiting a community of people interested in something, or discussing something, you were actually preying upon people with serious misfortune, which is really the lowest form of baiting.

Just don't do this... It's that simple.

 

[Banter]

Another reason for Yahtzee not to return to England

On a serious note, British slander laws are incredibly easy to hold a trial for and get CONVICTED for. They apparently don't have much tolerance for anyone saying anything. Shit, it's like 1984 over there

And if I read right it just recently got even EASIER to be held liable for saying something that might possibly offend somebody who wasn't present at the time. I really wish that were a joke, too.

Source and context please?

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

And now it's time for some audience participation. What do you think is most disturbing: The fact that being a troll is literally against the law in the U.K., the fact that Coss' neighbors felt it necessary to inform the police that there was a troll living down the street or the fact that the police thought the matter was important enough to warrant an interview and then formal charges?

I don't like trolls. They're attention-seeking jerks who will say anything to get a rise out of people. When they get demolished in a forum thread, or banned, or even punched in the mouth, I don't mind at all. But I'm having a hard time believing that someone is going to jail for it. Any society that puts people in prison for being a dick is a society that's in deep trouble indeed.

Andy, I think we can both agree that this guy is a step above the standard troll. It doesn't matter what defines a troll, this guy is being abusive to people who have lost loved ones. Granted it may be rather unorthodox in Jade Goody's case, but the fact of the matter is that this is basically the same scenario as someone who voices racial hatred in public.

 

[Cain_Zeros]

This has been said before, but this isn't a free speech issue. Saying you fucked the corpse of someone's dead loved one (probably among other things along those lines) is the kind of disgusting shit that isn't (and shouldn't be) protected. Just because it was over the Internet doesn't mean it's acceptable.

 

[Lokluster]

I'm from the UK and I totally don't agree with a troll being jailed.
Saying that it's illegal to "sending malicious communications that were grossly offensive" is a bit of a trap. Being offended is subjective, what may be offensive to one person may not be offensive to another. So how can you sentence someone based on it?
I know the troll was probably offensive to the bereaved, but the whole point of jail is to contain someone who is a threat to general society. I consider myself a part of general society, and I don't care what the troll has to say.
Don't trolls kind of thrive off of negative response? So isn't jail the ultimate form of feeding the troll?

 

[TheAmazingTGIF]

This seems like a breach of free speech (I know that it didn't happen in the US, but still)...
He does seem like a massive tool but that is what free speech is about. This could be concerning to people on the internet in the UK.

actually no, offensive language is NOT protected by the constitution and CAN be censored. have you ever wondered why the FCC can side step the constitution and bleep whatever words they please?

The FCC can't bleep whatever they want (they have guidelines), and in my opinion, they are massive tools. Censorship is a terrible thing and is more of a crutch than anything else.

 

[JDKJ]

Unless and until the Supreme Court rules against Fred Phelps and Westboro Church, this sort of speech, regardless of how offensive and reprehensible one may find it, is protected by the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. And I, for one, and glad it is. The ultimate measure of freedom to speak is the ability to freely say that with which 99.99% of all listeners will completely disagree. Freedom of speech has nothing to do with popularity of speech.

 

[Ih8pkmn]

This has earned me a +1000 faith in humanity boost.

This guy had it coming. I mean,saying that kind of BS in the US would probably have the media on your ass faster than you can say "Hot Coffee Scandal". It's damn sick that he would do that! I mean, even trolls have to have limits.

 

[One Seven One]

Huh, I was wondering how long it would take for me to hear about someone getting in trouble for trolling.

 

[Vanguard_Ex]

Then again, I don't think the U.K> constitution gives free speech and such... Since it's under a monarchy. So it's probably whatever the king or queen decides.

We're ruled by a democratically elected government, you dumbass.

 

[JDKJ]

This has been said before, but this isn't a free speech issue. Saying you fucked the corpse of someone's dead loved one (probably among other things along those lines) is the kind of disgusting shit that isn't (and shouldn't be) protected. Just because it was over the Internet doesn't mean it's acceptable.

It's tame compared to the things Westboro Church says in front of the funeral services of fallen war veterans. And which, more likely than not, is protected speech.

 

[SecretLink]

I support free speech of all kinds. Just as I also support being able to punch people in the face that say crap like this.

 

[Flac00]

It's more then trolling in this case, it's enjoying the act of traumatizing traumatized people. If he was trolling somewhere else on the same idea, he wouldn't have been arrested.

I agree, verbal assault is verbal assault, whether on the internet or not.