Mar-A-Lago Raid

SilentPony

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The remit of the Secret Service to protect ex-presidents will not extend to interfering with proper, legal authorities carrying out their duty with respect to that ex-president. Put it this way: imagine Trump pulled out a gun and started shooting random passers-by. A Secret Service detail is not going to stand there and let him, and they certainly aren't going to start a shooting match with any regular police who turn up to take down the crazy gunman murdering civilians.

The security detail will stand politely by and do little more than ensure that if force is required, it is proportionate. And then probably have to accompany Trump to any place of detention if relevant.
Lol, the Secret Service who attempted to kidnap Pence during Jan 6th and deleted all their phone and email records after the coup failed and refuse to cooperate with any investigations into their role in the coup? Yeah that secret service is going to just stand back and let their cult leader get manhandled for a mugshot? Yeah, not happening.
 

Ag3ma

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Lol, the Secret Service who attempted to kidnap Pence during Jan 6th and deleted all their phone and email records after the coup failed and refuse to cooperate with any investigations into their role in the coup? Yeah that secret service is going to just stand back and let their cult leader get manhandled for a mugshot? Yeah, not happening.
I strongly suspect the Secret Service has been carefully reviewed since then at the order of the new administration, with some more dubious members put out of harm's way.

Besides, what do you think they're going to achieve? They can't cover up a face-off with the Georgia police, and at best they'd just delay Trump getting processed, for which they'd almost certainly be fired and potentially criminally charged with obstruction.
 
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SilentPony

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I strongly suspect the Secret Service has been carefully reviewed since then at the order of the new administration, with some more dubious members put out of harm's way.

Besides, what do you think they're going to achieve? They can't cover up a face-off with the Georgia police, and at best they'd just delay Trump getting processed, for which they'd almost certainly be fired and potentially criminally charged with obstruction.
Maybe? I guess Im just worried because if we've learned anything since Trump came down that gold escalator, its that a lot of what we assumed was enshrined law was really just scout's honor best practices, and that laws are only as powerful as the people who enforce it.
Do I think Trump will order a shoot out in a Georgia courtroom? No, I doubt it. But do I think in the likelihood of a conviction Trump will order the secret service to take him out of jail, or may be even flee the country? Yeah I absolutely do think that's likely. Trump is convicted, flees to some no extradition country like Russia, still gets the GOP nomination, has the election, claims he won, and that he's now the legitimate president in exile of the United States.
 

Ag3ma

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But do I think in the likelihood of a conviction Trump will order the secret service to take him out of jail, or may be even flee the country? Yeah I absolutely do think that's likely. Trump is convicted, flees to some no extradition country like Russia, still gets the GOP nomination, has the election, claims he won, and that he's now the legitimate president in exile of the United States.
I don't think Trump will flee the USA if convicted. He's not giving up his billions and his luxury lifestyle to live in a "shithole country" as a glorified pet, dependent on his host's charity: far too humiliating. Partly because if he does do that, I don't think there's any way back: I doubt any president would stomach pardoning him. At least in a US jail he's got a chance.
 

SilentPony

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I don't think Trump will flee the USA if convicted. He's not giving up his billions and his luxury lifestyle to live in a "shithole country" as a glorified pet, dependent on his host's charity: far too humiliating. Partly because if he does do that, I don't think there's any way back: I doubt any president would stomach pardoning him. At least in a US jail he's got a chance.
Im not so sure of that. By all accounts Trump is terrified of going to prison. Small, dirty cell, cellmates who might clap his cheeks, not getting his daily 3000 calories worth of McDonald fish sandwiches, not being surrounded by cult members and Ivanka look alikes.
I like Trump fleeing and just accepting a slightly sub standard life as Putin's pet, in exchange for all the power and influence an ex-president is worth, is entirely on the table.
 
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Ag3ma

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Allegedly, Trump stiffed his lawyers, including Giuliani, for a load of work they did after the election.

I can't imagine what about Trump's past history over the decades might lead someone to suspect he'd do that.
 

Ag3ma

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Some polls in on the public's perception of Trump (and others) relating to his indictments.

It is not good reading for Trump. Whilst he retains very strong support among Republicans - enough that he can claim his numbers go up with every indictment - the overall story for the country suggests the public want him tried ASAP, and that a conviction is going to hurt him very substantially.
 
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Kwak

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Whilst he retains very strong support among Republicans -
That's really just a crushing indictment on the current mentality of those who identify as republican. Like, why? What the hell is wrong with them?
It implies absolute disregard for either the laws of their own country or democratic principles.
May they all die off and be replaced with people who actually have some semblance of a sane relationship to the world we all have to share.
 
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Thaluikhain

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That's really just a crushing indictment on the current mentality of those who identify as republican. Like, why? What the hell is wrong with them?
Answers would probably include the words, cult, Orwell, sunk-cost-fallacy or malice.

But yeah, there's some people who insist that he was part of a plot (probably by the Jewish Illuminati or somesuch) to make the right look bad. In a way I can respect those people more, because despite the absurdity of the claim, they openly acknowledge him to have been a terrible president.
 

tstorm823

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That's really just a crushing indictment on the current mentality of those who identify as republican. Like, why? What the hell is wrong with them?
It implies absolute disregard for either the laws of their own country or democratic principles.
Have you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? After years of questionable impeachment attempts, it is perfectly reasonable to disregard the rest. If you want people to care about political indictments, you shouldn't abuse the system.

Edit: Let me put it this way. If Republicans charged Hillary with a bunch of crimes, would you care?
 

Ag3ma

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Have you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? After years of questionable impeachment attempts, it is perfectly reasonable to disregard the rest.
The Republicans are disregarding this because the party membership has heavily withered away towards a demographic of old, white, angry, entitled, reactionary men who think they have a right to run the country simply because of who they are, irrespective of law or democracy. Thus they are Trump and Trump is them.
 
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BrawlMan

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the overall story for the country suggests the public want him tried ASAP, and that a conviction is going to hurt him very substantially.
Good. His dick suckers can continue to wallow in their own despair and stupidity they brought upon themselves.

Yeah, there's some people who insist that he was part of a plot (probably by the Jewish Illuminati or somesuch) to make the right look bad. In a way I can respect those people more, because despite the absurdity of the claim, they openly acknowledge him to have been a terrible president.
I can't respect them nor those type of shitheads and fuck-heads. All they acknowledge is being open human trash, while still acting like Trump is either not as bad, the Liberal/"other side" or minorities and LBGTQ being the worse, or acting as if they themselves are blameless and did nothing wrong, while trying to act like victims of circumstance. Hell, trying to always like victims in general, while always being the aggressors and abusers. The only thing they get from me are these:


or this

 
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SilentPony

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The thing that really bothered me about what happened in Georgia this week is the sheriff and the DA both said Trump would be treated like any other defendant.
Like any other.
So excuse us while we shut down the entire airspace of an entire city for 12 hours for Trump, excuse us while we coordinate a 20 car, thousand officer armored caravan of security, excuse us while we let his secretary fill out his fraudulent paperwork days before his arrest, excuse us while we spend all of 15min processing this guy and letting him go, all being paid for by you the loyal tax payer.
I don't get why Georgians aren't up in arms, outraged at this "fair and equal" treatment. Trump shut down an entire city just by arriving. He's accused of treason, why does he still have a security detail, and why is it larger than Biden, who is the actual sitting president?!
 
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Hades

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Have you ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? After years of questionable impeachment attempts, it is perfectly reasonable to disregard the rest. If you want people to care about political indictments, you shouldn't abuse the system.

Edit: Let me put it this way. If Republicans charged Hillary with a bunch of crimes, would you care?
Not really. About every prediction about Trump’s corrupt behavior would prove to be utterly correct. Up to the prediction he’d try to overthrow democracy instead of accepting he lost.
 

SilentPony

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Edit: Let me put it this way. If Republicans charged Hillary with a bunch of crimes, would you care?
If she did a crime, she should go to prison. Straight up. Democrats/liberals have no loyalty to individuals the way conservatives do. Its not a cult of personality for them. If Hilary or Biden or Obama committed crimes, launch an investigation, charge them, try them, convict them and jail them.
So too with Trump. If the man did it - and the evidence appears very strong he did - let the system work it out. If he dies in prison, oh well, he won't be the first criminal to do that.
 

tstorm823

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If she did a crime, she should go to prison. Straight up.
I agree and appreciate the sentiment, but that isn't the question. The question is: if Republicans accuse Hillary Clinton of a crime, do you believe that she committed one?

I don't think people here would. I submit as evidence (emphasis mine):
They investigated her how many times? They only didn't charge her because there was nothing to charge her with.
And that is a completely reasonable response. The Republican Party has absolutely no credibility when accusing Clinton of misconduct after making her out to be satan for decades.
 

SilentPony

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I agree and appreciate the sentiment, but that isn't the question. The question is: if Republicans accuse Hillary Clinton of a crime, do you believe that she committed one?
Accusation only? As in "CRIME!" No. Of course not. Same way I don't just believe someone when they just randomly accuse Trump of a crime.
That's why we insist on evidence.
That why the GOP held so many investigations. Well technically they held them to hurt her presidential run, but lets give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they did truly believe she did dirty dirty crimes. But they never found any evidence and never had anything to charge her with. That's the system playing out.
That's why Trump is being charged - people conducted investigations, and found evidence.
 
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