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Ag3ma

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I'm asking for a reason not to take the plea deal.
??! Because they have a low chance of a successful defence, obviously.

I'm saying this guilty plea could be the lie, and true testimony might not match it.
Perhaps you don't quite understand how these sorts of plea deals work. Generally, the point here is to get the smaller fish to provide useful info to build a case against the bigger fish. A much more reasonable proposition is therefore that the prosecutors have established to their satisfaction that Powell and Cheseboro's testimony will support the cases against Giuliani, Trump and others rather than undermine them.

After all, if their testimonies benefit the defence, the prosecutors have just kind of helped kill their own case. The prosecutors might of course be that incompetent, but...
 
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Silvanus

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Do you actually not get this? I'm saying this guilty plea could be the lie, and true testimony might not match it. You're not even entertaining the idea that they could tell the truth and not have it hurt Trump.
Of course I 'get' what you're saying. And I'm replying that it's an unrealistic scenario crafted solely to rationalise something that's damaging for your party's candidate.
 
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SilentPony

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tstorm823

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??! Because they have a low chance of a successful defence, obviously.
Again, having a low chance of successful defense is a reason to take a plea deal.
My question is what is the incentive to turn down the plea deal?
After all, if their testimonies benefit the defence, the prosecutors have just kind of helped kill their own case. The prosecutors might of course be that incompetent, but...
Their testimonies don't have to torpedo Trump to benefit the defense in the simplest sense. These two are witnesses to the facts of the case, and can certainly be used in court to help establish those facts. The major question here isn't whether Trump did and said things. We all know he did and said things, most of it was televised. The question is whether what he did constitutes a crime, and unless they're going to testify that he detailed explicit crimes we haven't even heard about behind closed doors, their testimony isn't going to make the case for whether Trump's actions were criminal. But they can take away any potential doubt of what the actions are. And the public optics are good for the prosecutors.

There is plenty of motivation for the prosecutors here outside of "Sidney Powell's testimony is the final nail in Trump's coffin!"
 

Silvanus

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Again, having a low chance of successful defense is a reason to take a plea deal.
My question is what is the incentive to turn down the plea deal?
If they thought they could win at trial, turning down a plea deal would provide them with an avenue to: 1) avoid the heavy damage to their professional credibility that comes with a guilty verdict for a lawyer; and 2) avoid probation, community service, and fines; 3) attain vindication in the public eye.

But of course, they know they wouldn't win at trial. People who know they'll lose at trial are those with no incentive to turn down a plea deal.
 

tstorm823

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1) avoid the heavy damage to their professional credibility that comes with a guilty verdict for a lawyer; and 2) avoid probation, community service, and fines; 3) attain vindication in the public eye.

But of course, they know they wouldn't win at trial. People who know they'll lose at trial are those with no incentive to turn down a plea deal.
1) Too late for that, no matter the outcome.
2) A trial takes more time and money than community service and a fine.
3) No result of the trial would vindicate them in the public eye.
 

Silvanus

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1) Too late for that, no matter the outcome.
[...]
3) No result of the trial would vindicate them in the public eye.
You believe there's no difference to a lawyer's professional credibility if they're unable to prove in court that they themselves did not break the law.

Ya know, not everyone is like Trump, hiring solely on the basis of flimsy morals and flexible loyalties. Some people value competence and trust in their representation.
 
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tstorm823

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You believe there's no difference to a lawyer's professional credibility if they're unable to prove in court that they themselves did not break the law.

Ya know, not everyone is like Trump, hiring solely on the basis of flimsy morals and flexible loyalties. Some people value competence and trust in their representation.
These aren't just "lawyers" anymore. They're effectively celebrities. Public opinion of them is entirely removed from their legal credibility. It'd be like if Robert Kardashian was still alive, nobody would be talking about his credentials.
 

Silvanus

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These aren't just "lawyers" anymore. They're effectively celebrities. Public opinion of them is entirely removed from their legal credibility. It'd be like if Robert Kardashian was still alive, nobody would be talking about his credentials.
I promise you, Cheseman is not a celebrity. Most people had never heard of him before he pled guilty to a felony, which then immediately tanked his credibility as a lawyer.
 

The Rogue Wolf

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I promise you, Cheseman is not a celebrity. Most people had never heard of him before he pled guilty to a felony, which then immediately tanked his credibility as a lawyer.
And Sidney Powell made herself a celebrity by standing in front of cameras and saying the most insane shit imaginable for the purpose of keeping her boss in power.
 
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