Marriage

[Odbarc]

So this is something that has bothered me since childhood and I felt like venting..

Why. Why. WHY does marriage matter? So insecure in your own relationship you force your friends to all come say how wonderful your relationship? Even select your best friends to be 'bestman or bestwoman' pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars because you have to fulfill your egotistical fantasy? I'm supposed to idolize this? My relationship is somehow less important? It's OK to abandon someone because you don't have a ring... what kind of symbol-minded crap is that?!

Once upon a time people didn't have sex unless it was with their marriage partner. They got married to have sex. Now they have sex before marriage so it really has become a little pointless. You can merely divorce when you wish without much backlash. Just some effort.

Tradition?

 

[UltraPic]

I'm an atheist, so I don't have the religious element to motivate me.

Don't atheist's normally have the same thing under a different name?. I am pretty sure the atheist society have marriage as a thing.

 

[Eamar]

I'm an atheist, so I don't have the religious element to motivate me.

Don't atheist's normally have the same thing under a different name?. I am pretty sure the atheist society have marriage as a thing.

Yes of course atheists get married (and it's still called marriage. Marriage isn't a religious concept). I just meant that one of the few reasons I would "get" the desire for marriage is if it's for religious reasons, because of the idea that you'd want your god to bless or condone your relationship, but I don't have that as a motivation myself.

The tone of my post was meant to be one of "I do not personally understand why you'd feel the need to do this, but I appreciate that other people have their reasons for it."

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I suppose that's one way of looking at it. I on the other hand look at marriage as a symbol, and the formation of said symbol is worth celebrating.

 

[Kerric]

Marriage is just our culture's specific version of a universal... uh... I suppose "ritual" would be the right word? It's there to dis-encourage men from leaving women after they've gotten them pregnant, basically.

Biologically speaking, the optimum method for men to spread their genes is to sleep with as many women as possible and leave them immediately after. Women on the other hand can only produce one child at a time (or one batch in the case of twins etc), so they're incentivised to want to improve the chances of their child succeeding as much as possible, and sleeping around is mostly useless. This results in a situation where it's advantageous for women to only create children with men who have made an investment into them and their (future) children such as an expensive engagement ring, and a giant public party, which makes it less advantageous for the man to immediately run off to someone else. (Snip)

This is a rather simple sociobiological interpretation. Current thinking recognizes that if a male contributes the survival of his progeny, he has a better chance of passing on his genes since his kids can survive to reproduce, and when they do their kids have a better chance to survive, etc. So perhaps marriage isn't against the male's best genetic self-interest.

 

[michael87cn]

Marriage is a sign of devotion to your loved one, it's not for anyone elses benefit.

It's really very simply and not in any way antiquated or anything. You love someone so you devote yourself to THEM, and marriage is how you do that. It's a sign, an act, a thing you can do besides say "I love you", because, words are, not enough.

 

[nyankaty]

I am currently married and I think that I had a very different view of it than my current spouse.

To me, marriage is simply a legal agreement that says we share money and legal responsibilities. We get better deals on insurance and taxes. It's a set-in-stone agreement that we're committed to sharing the decent parts of life, but mostly that we're not alone in the deepest shit.

However, I do not think marriage has to be forever. When the agreement is no longer mutually beneficial, I don't see anything wrong with dissolving it or at least changing the terms of it. I think that marriage does NOT absolutely require love, but it would have to be understood by both people involved that it's a business contract at that point, and I see nothing whatsoever wrong with that.

I'm not religious at all, so god has no say at all in the idea of marriage for me. I definitely think being married makes having a child easier financially, but I think if I ever do decide to have a kid, I want to probably be alone in raising it but that's another conversation entirely!

I just think that marriage does not have to be this big, scary, ephermeral, romantic idea that so many people make it out to be. It's just a contract that makes it less easy to walk out on a person in bad times and it makes your tax rates better. Simple as that.

Though I don't think marriage has to have love to work, it does require complete trust, so if you love someone but don't totally trust them, then don't marry them.

 

[Headsprouter]

Well...it keeps people together, and that benefits the kids. Sure, the ceremony can go, but let's have civil partnerships and such to keep the monogamy. We aren't living together for survival any more, because we don't need to, so do something to encourage people to stay together so their kids can get a good, well-funded upbringing. And if the two people get too fed up with each other, no sweat, just get child support from somewhere, and if the distanced parent is still a good, well-loved role model, make sure the kids get to see them.

As for the ceremony, it's a lovely gesture, but I think it's best kept down to earth. None of that big, fat gypsy nonsense. The traditions aren't as bad as they used to be. There's remnants of the father "giving his daughter away" by walking her up the aisle and that, but it's pretty harmless. Just a group of people being happy and having fun. It's a party, that's what they're all about.

So, I'm pretty indifferent to the whole marrying bit, but I like couples being couples and not going all polygamy and having kids scattered all over the place with no idea who their father is. I tell ya, if we were more traditional about relationships, Maury Povich would not have a job. But that's the trailer park's America.

 

[DEAD34345]

Marriage is just our culture's specific version of a universal... uh... I suppose "ritual" would be the right word? It's there to dis-encourage men from leaving women after they've gotten them pregnant, basically.

Biologically speaking, the optimum method for men to spread their genes is to sleep with as many women as possible and leave them immediately after. Women on the other hand can only produce one child at a time (or one batch in the case of twins etc), so they're incentivised to want to improve the chances of their child succeeding as much as possible, and sleeping around is mostly useless. This results in a situation where it's advantageous for women to only create children with men who have made an investment into them and their (future) children such as an expensive engagement ring, and a giant public party, which makes it less advantageous for the man to immediately run off to someone else. (Snip)

This is a rather simple sociobiological interpretation. Current thinking recognizes that if a male contributes the survival of his progeny, he has a better chance of passing on his genes since his kids can survive to reproduce, and when they do their kids have a better chance to survive, etc. So perhaps marriage isn't against the male's best genetic self-interest.

If the option to have several children is there, it's a much better choice than to have one child raised properly. Sheer numbers end up on your side. That's not really debatable, and in almost every species of mammal other than human the males mate with as many females as possible, and leave them straight after.

Then again, I didn't really mean to imply there were no benefits to marriage for men, I was just simplifying the idea to explain why marriage exists and is considered important in the first place. I'm far from knowledgeable about the subject, and I assume there are advantages and disadvantages for both sides in the arrangement. Humans have long infancy periods, so I suppose it's more vital for a male to care for his offspring than with most other species, and I guess it'd tie into preventing cuckolding as well(?).

The main point I was trying to make is that marriage "matters" because it's useful to the propagation of genes, which is why humans have evolved instincts that drive us to do it, and consider it important.

 

[lacktheknack]

Why do we have parties?

Parties are expensive, parties are stressful to the host, parties are not a logical choice of time usage. You'd be better off reading a textbook or practising a skill or volunteering at a soup kitchen.

Oh, those aren't fun? Those aren't the ways you'd like to spend your every spare moment? You want to do something mindless and enjoyable periodically?

Well, that's why we have parties.

And a wedding is the MOTHERLODE of parties.

EDIT: Misread that as "why do we have weddings". Sorry.

We have marriage because we want it.

I don't know what more you want. Having an official ceremony that legally binds me and a girl I love together for the long term is just plain old appealing.

Also, religious reasons.

 

[Elfgore]

My guess it is just drilled into all of our heads when we are young that marriage it the ultimate form of love and commitment. Other than that it seems to be something that makes breaking up fifty times more difficult and expensive.

 

[FalloutJack]

I can't believe I was the only one thinking this.

There are some people that you want to stick with you and for others to keep away from, thus making the pairing official and to sink the other ships that might be sailing.

 

[Trunkage]

Religious folk have a way higher divorce rate mainly due to the anti- "try before your buy" deal.

Interestingly, Jews have laws stating that you have sex before marriage after you get engaged to make sure you are sexually compatible

Me personally I'd prefer someone with experience. Virginity as a "virtue" is the dumbest ideal that religion has provided humanity.

 

[Scarim Coral]

Well I hold some value toward marriage as I see it as a celebration in a way, you know like how people celebrate Christmas and Birthday etc? Even then I like the idea that is when the person you're in love with will now be with you as humanly possible (death til us part) althought that can be changed (devoice). Also then the status of boy/ girlfriend will be changed to husband and wife.

 

[shootthebandit]

Me and a guy from work had this conversation the other day. An average wedding in the UK cost £16, 000. If you think about it you could get married in a registry office for the price of the paperwork then spend the rest on a kickass honeymoon or even a deposit on a house.

You try telling a woman this and she will probably break your jaw but it makes perfect sense. Id much rather spend £16k that I dont have on a partner than on some shitty day where I have to put up with relatives ive not seen in years only to find out why ive avoided them for so long. Id much rather have a fortnight the 2 of us can enjoy on our own (maybe fly first class to the bahamas) rather than a day that nobody enjoys

My question is... Why invite people you don't want there? Fuck them! When I get married, my sister and possibly even my mother will NEVER get so much as a phone call from me let alone an invitation. No wonder you don't like the idea. You're already trying to ruin it by inviting worthless people who shouldn't be invited lol.

Im raising the point of the "traditional" wedding were lots of family are invited as opposed to my idea were you go to a registry office with a few close relatives as witnesses and then spend what you wouldve spent on a traditional wedding on something intimate such as a holiday or maybe something sensible like a house deposit or a bigger family car

 

[teamcharlie]

Personally, marriage doesn't itself bother me that much. Lots of religions are into it, you get neat benefits, it's easier to deal with custody stuff and nobody bats an eyelash at you living with your SO.

The problem I have is with cultural attitudes toward being not-married. People think you're selfish, ignorant, a misanthrope, living in sin, an atheist, or just some kind of freak who hates love. They think you're taking advantage of anyone you date if you don't eventually plan to marry them presuming the relationship doesn't fail before then. And as you get older the stink-eye only gets worse.

It would be nice if it was a choice where both options were considered acceptable (to marry or not), but that isn't the case by any stretch of the imagination. And while I'm all for everybody having the right to get married to consenting partners of their choice of an appropriate age and level of competency, I'd rather that not also come with an ever-increasing group of people to look down on their unmarried fellow mans and lady-mans.

 

[Pink Gregory]

So, where exactly is it that this 'social judgement' thing happens?

Cuz where I'm from people just...don't really care what other people do.

You aren't 'supposed' to idolise anything.

 

[Korolev]

Because, emotionally, people feel like Marriage is a Big Thing. A huge cornerstone in their lives. Whenever people feel that way, they want to celebrate it. Your objections to weddings and marriage are entirely logical, but humans aren't entirely logical. We didn't evolve to be entirely logical and we do silly things because they make us feel better and make us happy, even if logically they shouldn't.

 

[theboombody]

It's good in life to find SOMETHING you are committed and loyal to. Otherwise you're just going to be blown about with the wind with no sort of foundation in your life. Now it's good not to bog yourself down with too many commitments so that you're inflexible, but there's such a thing as being too flexible. It's probably best to strive for some kind of middle path.

What you decide to commit yourself to is your business as long as it's not criminal. Some commit themselves to duty, some commit themselves to a belief of some sort, and some commit themselves to family. Some try to commit themselves to all these things, and I suppose it's possible when they don't overlap, although it really hinders flexibility.

Real actual marriage is a commitment to family, although it's tough to tell nowadays since so many don't honor their commitment. When you sign that piece of paper, or do the ceremony or whatever, you're saying you're going to stay with your new family no matter what. When times get tough, you're not just going to abandon your wife/husband and play back and forth with your kids. If you have doubts that you can honor the commitment, don't go through with it. But many do anyway, either because they take the commitment too lightly, or because their spouse ends up abusing them and they couldn't foresee it. Most of the time it's probably due to a light commitment attitude. And they probably just do it for appearances and a fancy celebration. Bad, bad reason to get married.

Whether you get married on paper or not, I don't care. But I would say, let your promises be true. I would think, if you truly cared enough for the person to live the rest of your life with them, you would say so even if you don't get married. There are going to be relationships you have when you probably don't feel that way, and that's fine. But I do think it's nice to find someone you can grow old with. If you don't want to grow old together in your current relationship, I recommend you don't have kids with the person you're with. Kids are not a short-term thing, and while they're tough and can handle being with just one parent if necessary, I bet it puts them in a bind when you start fighting over who gets to see them when.

If you can't stay committed, adopt a child in your name only. That way no one can fight over them, and you know whose child is whose. If you don't want to have kids, yeah, marriage may not matter, in verbal or in ceremony/legal form. So I guess marriage is ultimately an agreement to share any children you have together and not try to steal them away for yourself.

Personally though, I love romance, and were I not in a forum where everyone hated marriage, I would describe it much differently. I hope everyone that desires to find lasting love does so. Those who want a life of bouncing from one relationship to another, I guess I wish them that. I just don't know why that would be their desire.

 

[theboombody]

Why do we have parties?

Parties are expensive, parties are stressful to the host, parties are not a logical choice of time usage.

I always say having fun is too much work.