There are a few nice tax breaks and your car insurance rates plummet.
But yeah, you're essentially correct. It gives some nice legal protections if one spouse tries to screw over the other, but that's about it. Most of it is just BS social stuff.
-Happily married for 11 years on Darwin Day this year. Why people will send us cards for that anniversary and not the 15 years we've been monogamous and living together makes no sense.
An occasion like a birthday or christmas where we spend money on things that are, from a rational standpoint, stupid as fuck to feel good.
I mean specifically locating and harvesting a tree based on its seasonal usage of sap to prevent leaf freezing as opposed to those who shed leaves and withdraw nutrients?! WHY?! How odd! And people spend a lot of money on these, along with a series of balls constructed only from the most opaque and fragile glass, useless for containing even the tiniest bit of liquid!
We do it because our culture assigns times to feel good and indulge in feelings we as a people find admirable and enjoyable. For christmas its love toward eachother and a feeling of family togetherness. We represent this in a weird way, the "ideal" christmas is a tree and christmas dinner themed family occasion.
For marriage its love. Equally as weird of a ritual but a ritual to celebrate something worthwhile.
Marriage is a bit of fun where you gather those closest to you and ASK (not force) them to come and celebrate the fact you are happy. I was REALLY happy to be invited to my uncles wedding. I love my uncle.
Marriage is something a couple can do to reinforce their love with a bizare ritual. Ive been in relationships where we had weird little habits to reinforce our relationship. Doing certain things on certain days and things. Marriage is like one of those that everyone else can be in on. And thats nice!
I LIKE fancy dinners.
I LIKE eating cake!
I like having a great party with my close friends where we all get really drunk in a venue of my choice listening to music of my choice!
I've been married happily for going on thirteen years now. We didn't round everyone up and shove our happiness down their throat. In fact, we just applied for a marriage licence, waited three days, grabbed a couple of friends to be witnesses, and just got married by a judge. Everything total was 250 dollars, back in 2001, that is.
And, actually, it IS okay to walk out on someone if you aren't married. Morally, you suck if you do this, but in the eyes of the law, there is nothing keeping you legally and financially bound to another individual if you aren't married. This is why gays have been fighting for the right to be married, because if something happens to your 'significant other' they have no rights or say in what happens to them if they cannot speak or take care of themselves.
As for the 'Why?' of being married; it's not for everyone. You sound like you've been brainwashed to believe that getting married means big churches, fancy rings, expensive clothes and starting wedded bliss in debt. That's materialistic and stupid. Marriage is about love and being in love with someone special, saying that 'this person is who I want to be with forever.' Granted, you don't have to be married to say this; I've known of people who have been together for years without being married. But I also know they did so out of tax/legal reasons, as well.
All I can really say is that to a lot of people like getting married. They like making that commitment. Doesn't work for you? Fine, but don't doubt the very real sense of happiness some people take from it.
Also, the legal benefits: Namely tax deduction. Also that married couples cannot be compelled to testify against each other in a court of law, but who goes into a marriage with that in mind?
All in all, I'm very wary about 'what's the deal with marriage' threads ever since I saw someone on the Escapist express quite seriously that if they could alter the law, they would make marriage illegal with harsh penalties.
Marriage is a societal norm. A commitment and financial union. I mean, taxes alone is a valid enough response if not to throw in the cultural traditions of the matter. Sorry if you don't want to get married or don't see any point to it. You not getting married does nothing to diminish those of us who do like you seem to feel us getting married does to your relationship. If it makes you feel better to think of us as fulfilling egotistical fantasies then so be it.
My marriage was a three day party at the beach with my closest friends and family. One of the best times I've ever had in my life and I would do the same if I had it to do over again. We've saved more money filing taxes jointly than we did on the wedding (though, we went really budget on the thing thanks to the venue only costing $43 for the pavillion where we ate and the beach was free).
It was important, a way to get our friends and family together from all over the country in the same place. We'll never have that again and we wouldn't have had it without doing it. People still talk about it. Laugh at the fun they had and ask if we'll ever just repeat it for fun.
And, at the end of the day, I would be lying if it doesn't make me happy to be able to call my best friend, my wife and to know that she happily calls me her husband. It is more meaningful to me than just calling her my girlfriend. Symbolic or not.
Marriage is the celebration of two people who love each other making a vow to stay together for the rest of their lives.
I can't believe how cynical some people are on here about it. Your view on marriage isn't everyone else's.
In some respects, I don't see the point of it either, but it shows you're super serious about how much you love your partner.
Unmarried people can just break up and move on quite easily. You wouldn't marry someone if you didn't want to stay with them for a long time.
I suppose some people are making it into a joke, getting married for a few months then realising they don't really love each other as much and divorcing. That's just a small pool of stupid people though.
People don't do it to show off, you should be happy if you're invited to a wedding because it shows that couple treasure you enough to share their special day with you.
I love weddings. I love seeing people in love, seeing people happy. I don't want to get married myself (right now at least. I won't say no to getting engaged) but I have absolutely nothing against those who do.
EDIT: I don't agree with the traditional views of marriage, the man now owning the woman etc. If I ever do, the vows are getting tweaked and no one is "giving me away".
An occasion like a birthday or christmas where we spend money on things that are, from a rational standpoint, stupid as fuck to feel good.
I mean specifically locating and harvesting a tree based on its seasonal usage of sap to prevent leaf freezing as opposed to those who shed leaves and withdraw nutrients?! WHY?! How odd! And people spend a lot of money on these, along with a series of balls constructed only from the most opaque and fragile glass, useless for containing even the tiniest bit of liquid!
We do it because our culture assigns times to feel good and indulge in feelings we as a people find admirable and enjoyable. For christmas its love toward eachother and a feeling of family togetherness. We represent this in a weird way, the "ideal" christmas is a tree and christmas dinner themed family occasion.
For marriage its love. Equally as weird of a ritual but a ritual to celebrate something worthwhile.
Marriage is a bit of fun where you gather those closest to you and ASK (not force) them to come and celebrate the fact you are happy. I was REALLY happy to be invited to my uncles wedding. I love my uncle.
Marriage is something a couple can do to reinforce their love with a bizare ritual. Ive been in relationships where we had weird little habits to reinforce our relationship. Doing certain things on certain days and things. Marriage is like one of those that everyone else can be in on. And thats nice!
I LIKE fancy dinners.
I LIKE eating cake!
I like having a great party with my close friends where we all get really drunk in a venue of my choice listening to music of my choice!
I've been married happily for going on thirteen years now. We didn't round everyone up and shove our happiness down their throat. In fact, we just applied for a marriage licence, waited three days, grabbed a couple of friends to be witnesses, and just got married by a judge. Everything total was 250 dollars, back in 2001, that is.
And, actually, it IS okay to walk out on someone if you aren't married. Morally, you suck if you do this, but in the eyes of the law, there is nothing keeping you legally and financially bound to another individual if you aren't married. This is why gays have been fighting for the right to be married, because if something happens to your 'significant other' they have no rights or say in what happens to them if they cannot speak or take care of themselves.
As for the 'Why?' of being married; it's not for everyone. You sound like you've been brainwashed to believe that getting married means big churches, fancy rings, expensive clothes and starting wedded bliss in debt. That's materialistic and stupid. Marriage is about love and being in love with someone special, saying that 'this person is who I want to be with forever.' Granted, you don't have to be married to say this; I've known of people who have been together for years without being married. But I also know they did so out of tax/legal reasons, as well.
All I can really say is that to a lot of people like getting married. They like making that commitment. Doesn't work for you? Fine, but don't doubt the very real sense of happiness some people take from it.
Also, the legal benefits: Namely tax deduction. Also that married couples cannot be compelled to testify against each other in a court of law, but who goes into a marriage with that in mind?
All in all, I'm very wary about 'what's the deal with marriage' threads ever since I saw someone on the Escapist express quite seriously that if they could alter the law, they would make marriage illegal with harsh penalties.
Seriously, this is pretty much /thread right here. I see here a couple of young cynics who think it's old/outdated/not hip/etc. who will never buy into it because atheism / anti-monogamy or other reasons, and that's just fine, and I see a couple of people who see it for what it is, a beneficial legal arrangement for consenting individuals that allows them to pledge trust in one another and gain access to legal benefits therein, such as joint tax filing, shared healthcare, legal protections for one another, and asset protection for posterity. You also potentially bring more people closer to one another by joining families. Plus on the shallow side, cake is awesome, parties are fun, and you unlock a few clan tag you can apply at the end of your name if you wish.
I don't see the point of it, other than funding somebody's quaint ideals and businesses. If love does indeed conquer all, it shouldn't be hindered by a few antiquated institutions.
Basically this. I don't see it as being egotistical so much as being as unwieldy and impractical a ceremony as high school graduation parties. Any derp can get married.
Marriage in the English sense that we use it today was invented to control who was having kids so limited land didn't have to be divided between too many "illegitimate" heirs. Since land ownership and sexual monogamy are way less important NOW than they were in pre-Medieval Europe, I think marriage a social convention that should be phased out, but that's just me.
(Also the whole "let's spend the rest of our lives together, but FIRST let's spend ALL OUR MONEY in one day!" side of it doesn't particularly appeal to me either.)
So this is something that has bothered me since childhood and I felt like venting..
Why. Why. WHY does marriage matter? So insecure in your own relationship you force your friends to all come say how wonderful your relationship? Even select your best friends to be 'bestman or bestwoman' pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars because you have to fulfill your egotistical fantasy? I'm supposed to idolize this? My relationship is somehow less important? It's OK to abandon someone because you don't have a ring... what kind of symbol-minded crap is that?!
I'm forced to deduce from your tone that something -- probably a lack of money and/or a friend's wedding -- has brought this up much more recently.
To tackle the "hundreds, if not thousands of dollars" thing: Nobody amongst my friends and family spent a penny on my wife and I's wedding that they didn't want to. And even then, the only thing they provided was whatever food they cooked and whatever gas their cars drank up to arrive. It was a very small, family affair. My wife kept me out of the financial end of the thing, probably because she knew I'd cut costs to the bare minimum "apply for a marriage license" levels and she wanted something different.
In your particular corner of the world, maybe things are different as a matter of course, but we actively discouraged our friends and family from spending any dosh on us, much less the obscene levels you're accusing all weddings of charging.
But seriously, man. Being married is great. It's...
I can't describe how absolutely awesome it feels every time I'm able to say "wife" instead of "girlfriend" or "Finacee". I wish I could bottle that emotion. I'd make millions.
(It's worth noting that I'm normally pretty emotionally dead).
I find the concept confusing and it seems to originate mostly from religions, none of the beliefs of which I subscribe to. It seems like a lot of expense and effort for something that would only serve to put me in uncomfortable situations for a day. If I am to celebrate my love for someone, why would I want to do so through someone else's sickening traditions?
Then again, it is something of a non-issue given that I expect never to enter a serious relationship of that sort, let alone reach a point where marriage would be a possible outcome.
So this is something that has bothered me since childhood and I felt like venting..
Why. Why. WHY does marriage matter? So insecure in your own relationship you force your friends to all come say how wonderful your relationship? Even select your best friends to be 'bestman or bestwoman' pay hundreds if not thousands of dollars because you have to fulfill your egotistical fantasy? I'm supposed to idolize this? My relationship is somehow less important? It's OK to abandon someone because you don't have a ring... what kind of symbol-minded crap is that?!
Well, here is a perspective that might as well come from another planet, I suppose. I'm in my mid-fifties, and got married in my late thirties.
You seem to be conflating two concepts - a wedding and a marriage. A wedding is a single public event marking the existence of a marriage in a very public manner. It is a "sacrament" in the technical sense of a sign of something that it in itself helps to create . You seem to think "symbols" are "crap," while I think that they are in fact a powerful part of human experience. The willingness to stand up in a very public venue and state that you hope to permanently commit yourself to a relationship with a single person and potentially raise a family together is not only important, it can help you live up to that commitment. However, it doesn't (and IMO shouldn't) be a big expensive affair that puts you in debt.
You don't force people to "all come say how wonderful your relationship" it, you invite them to celebrate with you something that you are personally very happy about. You rejoice - you share your joy, again.
Relationships can be tough - very, very tough. There have been times when I wasn't sure we would stay together. But the fact that we were (and are) married did actually help us through some tough times. And the promise of that commitment gives our kids a sense of security that they will have a family to look after them.
And, while I don't mean to be harsh, if (from your perspective in your last sentence) a public commitment has nothing to do with whether or not you stay together, then why are you opposed to making the commitment? Surely it won't weaken your relationship, and it might offer some support to your partner? And if you are unwilling to make such a commitment, don't you think that also says something?
I've been happily married for a few years now. I thought Id add my grooms speech to give you my perspective on marriage:
***
Now before we continue, an explanation may be necessary. See, People have? credited me as thinking a little bit wonky. This next section may fall in that category.
One of our readings today went like this: ?Love is always patient and kind; it is never jealous; love is never boastful or conceited; it is never rude or selfish.?
I live in a world where absolutes don?t really exist. So when something like this paragraph starts using words like always and never, well? it?s a challenge for me. So, come take a journey while I examine this reading.
Firstly let?s look at love as patient and kind. When we were thinking about moving in together, one of Holly?s stipulations was me giving up smoking. Being patient and kind would mean that she wouldn?t give me that ultimatum, and that?s not what would have been best for me.
Love is never jealous or selfish. Now, isn?t getting married acting selfish? You devote your love to one person instead of equally loving the whole world. You will generally put your loved ones above anyone else. You will go out of your way to spend time with them. And the big reason you do that is to receive love back.
And isn?t being boastful what all the wedding is about. We, as a couple, said in front of everyone today that we love and are committed to each other. We could just say it to each other instead of telling everyone else. We, as humans, sing song, write books and poetry, direct movies based around love. Imagine if there was no extravagant displays of love, like the kind you see in any chick flick.
I?m not saying these things to be provocative. I?m saying this because I?m stating what I want. I want a person who will push me to do what?s best for me, who will be selfish to me and no one else, who is proud of my accomplishments and who is jealous of the time I spend away from her.
I want to thank you Holly for doing all those things and more for me. You?ve always been there for me, always loved me. You even forgive me I get up to mischief. Now here?s something that most of you don?t know, I knew within three months of meeting her, that I wanted to marry her.
***
The biggest reason why I got married? My wife wanted to before we had kids
Why isn't it important to me? I made that kind of commitment to Holly before I even thought of marriage
Marriage is just our culture's specific version of a universal... uh... I suppose "ritual" would be the right word? It's there to dis-encourage men from leaving women after they've gotten them pregnant, basically.
Biologically speaking, the optimum method for men to spread their genes is to sleep with as many women as possible and leave them immediately after. Women on the other hand can only produce one child at a time (or one batch in the case of twins etc), so they're incentivised to want to improve the chances of their child succeeding as much as possible, and sleeping around is mostly useless. This results in a situation where it's advantageous for women to only create children with men who have made an investment into them and their (future) children such as an expensive engagement ring, and a giant public party, which makes it less advantageous for the man to immediately run off to someone else.
Of course some of the reasoning behind this doesn't quite apply the same way it used to any more, but humans haven't really adapted to this whole "modern civilization" thing yet, and we're still basically set up to be simple tribal hunter-gatherers. Human instinct dictates that there needs to be a kind of contract to force fathers into looking after their children, and so we end up with things similar to marriage in every human culture out there.
Oh an interesting little tidbit... The priest doesn't marry you, you marry each other. The priest is there to help with the words (and probably give some sort of sermon on marriage - that's the "added benefit" of using a priest)
People need to stop over-analyzing every little thing and just let other people enjoy life and do their own thing. Being married is great. My wedding was awesome and there is nothing better in my life than my kids. People want to express their love in public with a big party? Your response should be: "That is freaking awesome! Good for them!". Married life not for you? Family life not for you? Sweet. I hope you thrive in your life choices just as I thrive in my own.
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