Marvel Comics Reveals New Ms. Marvel

[Lightknight]

This is an interesting concept. We'll see where they go with it though. There is basically a million ways they can offend with it. Most heroes aren't identified by their faith in the DC universe so it does sound strange to make one of the very few Arabic individuals go that route, but at least there's something.

Nice to see that they're branching out a bit. Still, let batwoman have her wedding!

Erm, that's DC who are against lesbian marriage. This is a Marvel series.

DC is generally against marriage altogether. But yeah.

 

[bigfatcarp93]

I think I might pick this up if I can find the time or money. I've always been a Ms. M. fan.

Young Kamala has quite a legacy to live up to.

EDIT: By the way, I actually like that costume. It makes me think of Cassie Sandsmark.

 

[Seracen]

I'm certainly happy to see more inclusive heroes. However, I think there are ways to make an awesome costume without making her look like a harlot, and they haven't done that, so I am also hoping this costume is concept only.

Furthermore, I am just not confident enough in theability to show a character who lives by those lifestyle choices. More likely, it'll just be another "standard American archetype" who happens to be darker and occasionally makes mention of her heritage. Don't believe me? Just look at Jubilee. I didn't even know she was supposed to be Asian until well after she lost relevancy, as they did little to define her culturally.

On the flipside, I don't know how I feel about them just replacing Carol Danvers like that. I know she isn't exactly high up on the A-list, but it's just odd. It's nice to see them try something like this, but they need to do it right.

 

[Lightknight]

I'm certainly happy to see more inclusive heroes. However, I think there are ways to make an awesome costume without making her look like a harlot, and they haven't done that, so I am also hoping this costume is concept only.

Furthermore, I am just not confident enough in theability to show a character who lives by those lifestyle choices. More likely, it'll just be another "standard American archetype" who happens to be darker and occasionally makes mention of her heritage. Don't believe me? Just look at Jubilee. I didn't even know she was supposed to be Asian until well after she lost relevancy, as they did little to define her culturally.

On the flipside, I don't know how I feel about them just replacing Carol Danvers like that. I know she isn't exactly high up on the A-list, but it's just odd. It's nice to see them try something like this, but they need to do it right.

It's also somewhat besides the point. What people don't know about the largest segment of Muslims, the Sunnis, is that they are largely iconoclasts. They don't believe in representative images. Shi'ites will go so far as to even have pictures of their Prophet in their mosques but not the larger denomination. So making her live by a certain set of lifestyles is kind of a non-issue when the medium as a whole is already questionable for the ideology of something like 80% of the Muslim Faith. But, at least it's something.

Jubilee was Asian? Interesting. I remember reading the early X-Men comics and they actively included other nationalities like Jewish ("Kitty" Shadowcat and Magneto), Russian (Colossus), and even Native American (Thunderbird). They've been incredibly inclusive so this move doesn't surprise me at all. Frankly, I don't even consider it a "move" like I would with some other companies considering this being a calling card of Marvel.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Whats her power? Suicide bombing? lol. Seriously though, this just seems like bullshit. Thing is why not just create a new muslim superhero or a gay hero......why make a current hero gay or muslim? Just seems like pandering. I would love a super hero that was muslim, just that it would mean more if it was a brand new hero. Not just painting an already known hero with a muslim brush.

 

[SonOfVoorhees]

Whats her power? Suicide bombing? lol. Seriously though, this just seems like bullshit. Thing is why not just create a new muslim superhero or a gay hero......why make a current hero gay or muslim? Just seems like pandering. I would love a super hero that was muslim, just that it would mean more if it was a brand new hero. Not just painting an already known hero with a muslim brush.

DC did... But then they killed her as fast as they introduced her

Just out of curiosity as im not a comic person, well was more an Image person back in the day. Who was that character an how was she killed?

 

[Ticklefist]

I think she's great and that big 'ol fist is awesome but.....

Comic book companies should stop doing these media parades every time they introduce a minority character. All it does is bring attention to how little they've done it in the past.

 

[Spaceman Spiff]

I like the concept and the look of the cover. The other art doesn't look very appealing though, so I hope it's just concept art. I wonder what her name will be once Danvers is Ms. Marvel again.

 

[Seracen]

It's also somewhat besides the point. What people don't know about the largest segment of Muslims, the Sunnis, is that they are largely iconoclasts. They don't believe in representative images. Shi'ites will go so far as to even have pictures of their Prophet in their mosques but not the larger denomination. So making her live by a certain set of lifestyles is kind of a non-issue when the medium as a whole is already questionable for the ideology of something like 80% of the Muslim Faith. But, at least it's something.

Jubilee was Asian? Interesting. I remember reading the early X-Men comics and they actively included other nationalities like Jewish ("Kitty" Shadowcat and Magneto), Russian (Colossus), and even Native American (Thunderbird). They've been incredibly inclusive so this move doesn't surprise me at all. Frankly, I don't even consider it a "move" like I would with some other companies considering this being a calling card of Marvel.

I totally understand that simply having a Muslim superhero would raise such feelings in some of the readership. However, as a character, the new Ms. Marvel would (and perhaps should) behave in certain ways that define her character as an American Muslim, lest she lose her cultural identity. To be fair, this would be mostly subtle stuff, which is characterization 101, regardless of cultural background.

Case in point: Yep, Jubilation Lee was supposed to be Chinese, but they completely played her off as a valley girl and literal mallrat. I wouldn't call it a "move" either, as it seemed more natural than Northstar, Batwoman, or Justice Society's Green Lantern.

Defining her along socio-cultural lines would have given meat to her character, keeping her from fading into obscurity. Similarly, as much as I liked her, Dazzler is a caricature of 80's action chicks, and hasn't withstood the test of time either. The X-Men always seem to be in need of these characters, the "young scared girl" who has potential, and is taken under Wolverine's wing (apparently to redeem him and make him more like Batman). Rogue suits this same purpose in the X-Men film, and is arguably the worst rendition of the character.

Not saying the current stab at her (Hisako from the X-Men anime) is terribly good. The only thing different about her is that she has no relationship with Wolverine, and manages to be boring despite the plot revolving around her. Still, how much more interesting would any of these archetypes have been, if they had been approached as anything other than plot convenience?

 

[Darth_Payn]

Now it's a contest to see whose appearance will cause more of an uproar: this new Ms. marvel or Simon Baz, the Arab-American Green Lantern. Don't tell me we forgot about him already.

 

[Seracen]

Now it's a contest to see whose appearance will cause more of an uproar: this new Ms. marvel or Simon Baz, the Arab-American Green Lantern. Don't tell me we forgot about him already.

No no, that will happen when they get pigeonholed into a marriage that creates the new version of the Amalgam universe.

 

[Ihateregistering1]

They don't believe in representative images. Shi'ites will go so far as to even have pictures of their Prophet in their mosques but not the larger denomination.

For clarification, this isn't 100% accurate. The pictures that Shi'ites have in their mosques (and frequently all around their neighborhoods) are pictures of Ali Ibn Abi Talib, who was the cousin and son in law of Muhammad, the Islamic Prophet, and considered to be the second most important figure in Islamic history. No sect of Islam permits pictures or representative images of the Prophet Muhammad.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

Nice to see that they're branching out a bit. Still, let batwoman have her wedding!

Erm, that's DC who are against lesbian marriage. This is a Marvel series.

I've got to agree that the artwork looks a bit shit and I'm not really keen on the idea too. I mean, is she going to stop being a hero to pray 5 times a day and then get stoned to death for daring to be an independant woman rather than a domestic slave and baby producing machine? Also why does that hedgehog have Hulk hands (holy aliteration Batman!)?

I'd assume she's going to be a nicely progressive Muslim girl who maybe checks out some Hadiths while in the subway but who mostly sticks to her head-space for the worship stuff. I don't see how her actually looking to find out which way East is and kneeling on her little prayer mat at the drop of a hat would go down well with the Right Wingers in the readership.

Apart from that, I dunno. She likes Cheetos, watches Game of Thrones, pesters about her cell phone plan being too expensive - but no kids in the oven and none of that "Burqua or die, you domestic slave-cow" crap.

I wouldn't care personally but, eh. Grew up in Montreal, studied in Montreal, etc. People asking me what time it is and which way East is is pretty common. I don't think I'd especially mind.

 

[Khrowley]

My main concern is there any chance some b/s or what have you that will lead to Carol losing the Captain Marvel title like Monica Rambeau did and have to reclaim her Ms. Marvel name or take up another? Wouldn't be surprised if that did happen, but it'd be a bit of a problem for this new title. Frankly I gave up on new teenage superheroes ever since Marvel turned Arana into another Spider-Man clone and then ran her series into limbo.

 

[Lightknight]

They don't believe in representative images. Shi'ites will go so far as to even have pictures of their Prophet in their mosques but not the larger denomination.

For clarification, this isn't 100% accurate. The pictures that Shi'ites have in their mosques (and frequently all around their neighborhoods) are pictures of Ali Ibn Abi Talib, who was the cousin and son in law of Muhammad, the Islamic Prophet, and considered to be the second most important figure in Islamic history. No sect of Islam permits pictures or representative images of the Prophet Muhammad.

Actually, they use a single page illustration with Muhammad every year on the anniversay of the Mi'raj. They have also had a long tradition of using an image with 'Ali and Muhammad to show their relation to one another. 'Ali is just by far the most common. Keep in mind though that Sunni iconoclasm would destroy even that.

Here's a basic wiki paragraph of aniconism practices in Shia culture in contrast to Sunni culture:

For Shia communities, portraits of the major figures of Shiite history are important elements of religious devotion. In Iran, portraits of Muhammad and of Ali, printed on pieces of cloth or woven into carpets, are called temsal ("likenesses") and can be bought around shrines and in the streets, to be hung in homes or carried with oneself.[Dabashi, Hamid (2011). Shi'ism - A Religion of Protest. Cambridge, MA: The Belknap Press of Harvard University Press. pp. 29?30.] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aniconism_in_Islam#Present]

So, many Shi'ites would consider it ok and even part of their worship.

However, I should be clear that we're talking in generalities. While Shi'ite nations may not have such a problem, some shi'ite cultural practices are more similar to Sunnis despite basic theological and historical differences. While denominations are relatively few (compared to the mass of denominations that Christinianity has), the expressions of the faith can be many.

I should also mention that Islam was one of my areas of study in college. Fascinating religion and culture.

 

[Lightknight]

I totally understand that simply having a Muslim superhero would raise such feelings in some of the readership. However, as a character, the new Ms. Marvel would (and perhaps should) behave in certain ways that define her character as an American Muslim, lest she lose her cultural identity. To be fair, this would be mostly subtle stuff, which is characterization 101, regardless of cultural background.

Well, she is an American Muslim. American expression of Islam can be every bit as notorious for not following the religious laws as Jewish writers usually joke about themselves. So I wonder what kind of cultural identities she'll bear or will she just be a completely Americanized Muslim, rendering the cultural difference nigh meaningless?

Case in point: Yep, Jubilation Lee was supposed to be Chinese, but they completely played her off as a valley girl and literal mallrat. I wouldn't call it a "move" either, as it seemed more natural than Northstar, Batwoman, or Justice Society's Green Lantern.

Ah, I see we are in agreement.

Defining her along socio-cultural lines would have given meat to her character, keeping her from fading into obscurity.

Heroes with Stupid powers don't have longevity as a rule. She was a dedicated red shirt from the start. Bright lights! Yay. Eventually they added some useful things. Like the fact that now she's a vampire. But with weak-ass powers like she had, she could be easily ignored as anything but a damsel to be rescued over and over again by the likes of real heroes like Rogue.

 

[The Great JT]

Hm, sounds good. Glad to see Marvel just did the logical thing and made Carol the big-name. As for our new Ms. Marvel, costume looks interesting and I hope they do some fun and interesting stuff with her.

 

[Seracen]

Well, she is an American Muslim. American expression of Islam can be every bit as notorious for not following the religious laws as Jewish writers usually joke about themselves. So I wonder what kind of cultural identities she'll bear or will she just be a completely Americanized Muslim, rendering the cultural difference nigh meaningless?

Yeah, I figure the cultural background is more eyecandy to attract readers. I really don't think they are going to go out of their way to make her "authentic" and potentially piss off people if they screw up.

Also, I feel that they aren't creating a new hero for marketing reasons. Ms. Marvel has an established fanbase, even if that fanbase is not necessarily "profitable" to Marvel. So they shake things up, have name recognition, AND get to diversify, potentially increasing the readership as well. I don't agree, but I get it.

Heroes with Stupid powers don't have longevity as a rule. She [Jubilee] was a dedicated red shirt from the start. Bright lights! Yay. Eventually they added some useful things. Like the fact that now she's a vampire. But with weak-ass powers like she had, she could be easily ignored as anything but a damsel to be rescued over and over again by the likes of real heroes like Rogue.

As for Jubilee, yeah fireworks are a dumb power. Still, it was amusing how they tried to change that in Generation X. They made her co-leader and gave her the potential to develop Havok-level powers. I think for a while there, they said her energy manipulation would one day rival an "Omega Level" Gambit.

Still, that's what perturbed me about Rogue in the X-Men films as well, she shouldn't be that sort of character. Heck, they basically used a similar archetype for her in Evolution, but Rogue wasn't some gimped damsel in that series. Dazzler was hardly weak (nuclear freaking blasts), but she was, as I said, a caricature.

Arguably, Kitty Pryde hasn't had that much comic fame (compared to some other X-Men), but she DID have a run where she was an agent of SHIELD (and KILLED IT!!!). Perhaps the cool powers kept her popular, and having character (outside of plot device) kept her relevant.

 

[Lightknight]

As for Jubilee, yeah fireworks are a dumb power. Still, it was amusing how they tried to change that in Generation X. They made her co-leader and gave her the potential to develop Havok-level powers. I think for a while there, they said her energy manipulation would one day rival an "Omega Level" Gambit.

Still, that's what perturbed me about Rogue in the X-Men films as well, she shouldn't be that sort of character. Heck, they basically used a similar archetype for her in Evolution, but Rogue wasn't some gimped damsel in that series. Dazzler was hardly weak (nuclear freaking blasts), but she was, as I said, a caricature.

Arguably, Kitty Pryde hasn't had that much comic fame (compared to some other X-Men), but she DID have a run where she was an agent of SHIELD (and KILLED IT!!!). Perhaps the cool powers kept her popular, and having character (outside of plot device) kept her relevant.

Rogue before she accidentally permanently robbed Ms Marvel of her powers would have been weak (funny that this came up in this htread). But yeah, I was incredibly frustrated at her being so young and weak. But I eventually decided this was an origin story rather than anything else.

As for Kitty, her powers are perfectly suited to espionage. I didn't see the series you're referencing but I can believe it.

 

[Riff Moonraker]

If they wanted to make this a NEW character, thats fine. But redoing Carol Danvers is ridiculous.