Marvel Giving Thor's Hammer New Female Friendly Inscription

Ferisar

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Machine Man 1992 said:
Which reveals what this was from the start: a publicity stunt meant to cynically draw in more readers and make more money. Only now they're gender swapping the character, so that's "notable" apparently.
Is this "cynical publicity stunt" worth any more outrage than the previous ones? If it lasts, cool, if it doesn't, we have a character who swung around Thor's hammer for a while, maybe also cool. This is a comic-book staple. It's not even worth getting mad over!

Of course it's notable. The geek buzz for the last year-ish that's been gaining traction is female representation, it's called relevance. The reason a bunch of women aren't being turned into men and being front-paged is because it has nothing to do with what's happening in the real world. It's not hard to see :p
 

Dragonlayer

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anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
"Whoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy and regardless of their sexual/racial identity, shall possess the power of Thor. However, they should not feel obliged to appease patriarchal societal demands for acceptance by utilizing this phallic object of masculine aggression in a violent manner and should be aware that anyone can succeed despite what traditional thinking may dictate."
 

ElMinotoro

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Fappy said:
I don't know how many times I have explained this, but "Thor" was a title of sorts when the character was first adapted into comics by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Dr. Don Blake "became" Thor when he made contact with Mjolnir. Since then, it's been tradition to have characters "become Thor" when the true artifact is either incapacitated or incapable of wielding the hammer. It's kind of dumb, sure, but it has tons of presidence. It's a tradition that has decades of history backing it up. Why do you think the phrase on the hammer says what it does in the first place?
This is not correct. Donald Blake was the human identity given to He-Thor by Odin as a punishment for hubris.

I wish She-Thor wasn't called just Thor, mainly for ambiguity reasons. This is why I'll refuse to call Carol Danvers Captain Marvel. She's had 5 different super hero names and Marvel Universe Captain Marvel has been 7 different people. So to talk about "Captain Marvel" without any other kind of signifier confuses me.

Similarly, Thor is the name of the character. I've not read Thor for a while but I used to weekly. From what I understand, He-Thor is deemed unworthy of Mjolnir and so She-Thor becomes Thor. But He-Thor is still alive, right? He might not be an Avenger, but he's not dead. What do we call him? His name Thor. But she's also Thor? Will we get to see some hot Thor on Thor action?

Beta Ray Bill is not Thor. He's Beta Ray Bill. And if you wielded his hammer, you wouldn't be Beta Ray Bill.
 

Fappy

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ElMinotoro said:
Fappy said:
I don't know how many times I have explained this, but "Thor" was a title of sorts when the character was first adapted into comics by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Dr. Don Blake "became" Thor when he made contact with Mjolnir. Since then, it's been tradition to have characters "become Thor" when the true artifact is either incapacitated or incapable of wielding the hammer. It's kind of dumb, sure, but it has tons of presidence. It's a tradition that has decades of history backing it up. Why do you think the phrase on the hammer says what it does in the first place?
This is not correct. Donald Blake was the human identity given to He-Thor by Odin as a punishment for hubris.

I wish She-Thor wasn't called just Thor, mainly for ambiguity reasons. This is why I'll refuse to call Carol Danvers Captain Marvel. She's had 5 different super hero names and Marvel Universe Captain Marvel has been 7 different people. So to talk about "Captain Marvel" without any other kind of signifier confuses me.

Similarly, Thor is the name of the character. I've not read Thor for a while but I used to weekly. From what I understand, He-Thor is deemed unworthy of Mjolnir and so She-Thor becomes Thor. But He-Thor is still alive, right? He might not be an Avenger, but he's not dead. What do we call him? His name Thor. But she's also Thor? Will we get to see some hot Thor on Thor action?

Beta Ray Bill is not Thor. He's Beta Ray Bill. And if you wielded his hammer, you wouldn't be Beta Ray Bill.
But that was a retcon made waaaaay later. The original idea was that anyone wielding Mjolnir became Thor. I would know, I have read most of the original Journey run from the 60's. This obviously is no longer the case (as it is pretty silly), but it seems that they are going with this angle as more of an homage than anything else. Obviously she isn't literally becoming Thor like Don Blake did (and I suppose he-Thor will continue to exist in some capacity), but it's my opinion that they are consciously referencing the old status quo.

EDIT: This is no doubt a means to leverage the book's marketability. I don't disagree that calling her Thor when she is not Thor is dumb... I am simply saying that there's a reason for it.
 

Machine Man 1992

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Ferisar said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Which reveals what this was from the start: a publicity stunt meant to cynically draw in more readers and make more money. Only now they're gender swapping the character, so that's "notable" apparently.
Is this "cynical publicity stunt" worth any more outrage than the previous ones? If it lasts, cool, if it doesn't, we have a character who swung around Thor's hammer for a while, maybe also cool. This is a comic-book staple. It's not even worth getting mad over!

Of course it's notable. The geek buzz for the last year-ish that's been gaining traction is female representation, it's called relevance. The reason a bunch of women aren't being turned into men and being front-paged is because it has nothing to do with what's happening in the real world. It's not hard to see :p
It still feels exploitative.

If they want female representation, why fuck with an established character? Why not create a new character, or pull one the side characters into the spotlight. It's not like they have an entire goddamned universe to work with here (or several).
 

IamGamer41

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Score another victory for the PC generation. Honestly who gives a crap about what the hammer says. Like no one could tell she was Thor. Is she going to make people read her hammer now to prove she really is Thor. All this will pass in a few months. Anyone recall when they turned the Punisher into a black man? That lasted all but 3 issues. All this was is shock value. It's akin to clickbating. Are they that dry on ideas they have to completely fuck up established characters? Also I don't see this as a big deal. Anyone read the Asguardian wars? Storm used Thors hammer then so a female with the hammer isn't new. Also back then no one gave two fucking shits about what the hammer said. I see no reason to make any kinda big deal of this.
 

Seracen

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Plasmadamage said:
anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific ^_^
I can't believe it took 8 posts to get to that
Immediately had the same thought...

Trishbot said:


It didn't change when Wonder Woman wielded it...

Which now has me wanting a new Marvel vs. DC crossover.
You know...Storm wouldn't have a chance...sorry to say. It always perturbed me when referred to herself as "equal to a god." Seemed the sort of pretentiousness one would expect from Apocalypse or Magneto...I loved when she tried to pull that crap with Thor and he pretty much said "nope." On the other hand, I also cried foul when Magneto cheated and used his powers to "wield Mjolnir."

Would LOVE to see another crossover series...granted they do a better job of it than "Amalgam" back in the day, and give us a series of solid story arcs...
 

Erttheking

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I still can't see why people think this is a big deal. I mean, there weren't organized outrages when Thor was turned into a god damn frog.
 

Lupine

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lionsprey said:
Fappy said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Daystar Clarion said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Fappy, we're on the internet.

Of course people are going to get angry. People are stupid.
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
I don't know how many times I have explained this, but "Thor" was a title of sorts when the character was first adapted into comics by Stan Lee and Jack Kirby. Dr. Don Blake "became" Thor when he made contact with Mjolnir. Since then, it's been tradition to have characters "become Thor" when the true artifact is either incapacitated or incapable of wielding the hammer. It's kind of dumb, sure, but it has tons of presidence. It's a tradition that has decades of history backing it up. Why do you think the phrase on the hammer says what it does in the first place?

Lightknight said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Because god forbid fans of an established character that's been around longer than many of us have been alive, get angry at Marvel for messing with said beloved character in the name of publicity and scoring points with the SJW crowd.

And one more thing; I don't get this whole "Thor is the title" thing. Thor isn't a title, it's his name. The guy's name is Thor, his title is "God of Thunder."
Thor Odinson to be precise.

What's more is Thor still exists in this paradigm. It's just some girl wielding his power and borrowing his name.

Like I said, we already complain about female heroes just having a male name slapped on and yet somehow we're OK with writers not even bothering doing that? Weird.

It's also particularly bad with Thor. This isn't just a comic character, this is a 2,000 year old character of human lore.

Why not just bring Sif or some unique and badass female to the forefront? Why do this? They aren't even giving the legitimate female characters a shot. It's like the only way they know how to add characters is to clone existing ones and slap breasts on them. People should honestly be even madder at this, because they don't get it.
First off, as someone already pointed out Sif does have her own book (last time I was reading Journey into Mystery anyhow). Also, Marvel's Thor has become so much its own thing that he hardly even resembles the mythological character he is based on. Sure, they take inspiration for the actual norse mythology, but inspiration is where it ends. Marvel's Thor is very much Marvel's Thor.

As for your primary grievance, I don't have an issue with a woman taking up his mantle. It could be a fun read, after all. I do, however, believe this to be financially motivated considering the comic industry's history with such stunts before. This is less about "appeasing SJWs" and more about making a quick buck on a novelty issue #1.

Lunar Templar said:
Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
This. But I wouldn't be surprised if did though. -.- this is the internet after all.

Also.

new KlK avatar, is the real last EP out yet? o_o where can find?
It's out. You should be able to find links for English subs on the Kill la Kill subreddit. Crunchyroll doesn't stream OVA's for some reason.
who other then donald blake has been thor? becouse from what i can find donald blake seems to be thor without his memory and placed in a crippled body.
nvm i managed to find a few
Let me be that guy, again. Donald Blake having been Thor all along was a retcon. Also even after the retcon it has been retconed again so that Blake was not just some body that Thor was placed into sans memories. As of right now, Blake isn't Thor, they don't even share the same body anymore and Blake is currently a disembodied head in the care of horrific nightmare creatures...

As for whom else was Thor, Thunderstrike was at one point Thor, which is even more interesting when you look at Ultimate Thor and realize that he is more Eric Masterson as Thor than he is similar to the 616 original.
 

ElMinotoro

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Lupine said:
SNIP
Let me be that guy, again. Donald Blake having been Thor all along was a retcon. Also even after the retcon it has been retconed again so that Blake was not just some body that Thor was placed into sans memories. As of right now, Blake isn't Thor, they don't even share the same body anymore and Blake is currently a disembodied head in the care of horrific nightmare creatures...

As for whom else was Thor, Thunderstrike was at one point Thor, which is even more interesting when you look at Ultimate Thor and realize that he is more Eric Masterson as Thor than he is similar to the 616 original.
But both Donald Blake and Eric Masterson were explicitly bonded with the spirit of Thor Odinson. They didn't just find the hammer and were suddenly able to SHAZAM into Thor.

Edit/ addendum: Ultimate Thor reminds me most of Jurgen Thor from This Other Eden by Ben Elton
 

totheendofsin

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Anyone who gets upset over this is silly. That being said I feel like it would have been smarter to go with a gender-neutral pronoun so they don't have to change it again when/if they decide to give the original Thor his hammer back (or otherwise give it to a male character).
 

JimB

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Skeleon said:
To me it'd seem more sensible to change it to: "Whosoever holds this hammer, if worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."
It's grammatically correct. I don't like the meter as much as the original, but in terms of English rules? Perfectly acceptable.

CelestDaer said:
anthony87 said:
"Whosoever holds this hammer, if they be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."

There. Nice and non-specific.
Isn't that what Odin says in the first Thor movie?
Nope. He says "he."

Sigmund Av Volsung said:
It could've had "thee" or "they" to begin with.
"Thee" is a second-person pronoun. It's a little clumsy in this instance. I personally hate "they" when used as a singular pronoun, but it is more or less acceptable.

DaWaffledude said:
Nazrel said:
Contrary to common misconception "he" is not a masculine pronoun, it's gender neutral. Where as "she" is a feminine pronoun.

This is why "he" is used for unknown or ambiguous individuals; when referring to a specific individuals the assumption of masculinity is made, though it would also be an appropriate term to be used for an entity without a male/female gender.

My point here is that ironically, Mjolnir has now gone from saying it's gender inclusive to that it's gender exclusive.

Given the intent behind the move I find this hilarious.
This is literally the first I have heard of this.
In academia, Nazrel is correct. However, as you yourself point out, words only have what meaning people agree to assign to them, and to most people, "he" means "a critter what has a penis."

DaWaffledude said:
No one uses "he" as gender neutral anymore.
I do, but I'm a stickler for the rules.

Machine Man 1992 said:
If they want female representation, why fuck with an established character? Why not create a new character, or pull one the side characters into the spotlight.
Business reasons. The comic industry is not infallible--Marvel's bankruptcy twenty years ago after it glutted the market with title after title no one cared about or had an interest in proved that--so Marvel is creating an event that it can expect will attract more new readers than it will lose them old readers, and near the end of this arc when Thor Odinson inevitably gets Mjolnir back, Marvel will have an excellent idea of how much demand there is for an ongoing series featuring the new character, from which they can base their decision. See also "the Reign of the Supermen" and Steel's eventual ongoing title.
 

Cronenberg1

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I like how nobody cares about gender neutral pronouns until it's changed from male to female. Someone makes a valid criticism about the use of he as a default pronoun for anything with an unidentified gender? "you're just being PC, stop being so offended all the time!" The text on Thor's hammer changes from he to she? "Hey lets be gender neutral now!"
 

The Bucket

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Machine Man 1992 said:
Ferisar said:
Machine Man 1992 said:
Which reveals what this was from the start: a publicity stunt meant to cynically draw in more readers and make more money. Only now they're gender swapping the character, so that's "notable" apparently.
Is this "cynical publicity stunt" worth any more outrage than the previous ones? If it lasts, cool, if it doesn't, we have a character who swung around Thor's hammer for a while, maybe also cool. This is a comic-book staple. It's not even worth getting mad over!

Of course it's notable. The geek buzz for the last year-ish that's been gaining traction is female representation, it's called relevance. The reason a bunch of women aren't being turned into men and being front-paged is because it has nothing to do with what's happening in the real world. It's not hard to see :p
It still feels exploitative.

If they want female representation, why fuck with an established character? Why not create a new character, or pull one the side characters into the spotlight. It's not like they have an entire goddamned universe to work with here (or several).
They put Sif as the lead in JIM, its just barely anybody cared.
 

JimB

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erttheking said:
I still can't see why people think this is a big deal. I mean, there weren't organized outrages when Thor was turned into a god damn frog.
A very cynical and at least possibly unfair part of me wants to say, "Well sure, because Thor Odintadpole still had gonads, and that's the important thing."
 

Lupine

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ElMinotoro said:
Lupine said:
SNIP
Let me be that guy, again. Donald Blake having been Thor all along was a retcon. Also even after the retcon it has been retconed again so that Blake was not just some body that Thor was placed into sans memories. As of right now, Blake isn't Thor, they don't even share the same body anymore and Blake is currently a disembodied head in the care of horrific nightmare creatures...

As for whom else was Thor, Thunderstrike was at one point Thor, which is even more interesting when you look at Ultimate Thor and realize that he is more Eric Masterson as Thor than he is similar to the 616 original.
But both Donald Blake and Eric Masterson were explicitly bonded with the spirit of Thor Odinson. They didn't just find the hammer and were suddenly able to SHAZAM into Thor.

Edit/ addendum: Ultimate Thor reminds me most of Jurgen Thor from This Other Eden by Ben Elton
Not true for Blake originally though. He was retconed into Thor sure, but originally it was totally, hammer-boom into Thor. Also Masterson was also Thor on his own after he was separated from Thor Odinson, which is why he was my example in the first place.

Edit: Never read it, sorry. Honestly Ultimate Thor seems really Masterson, even his original "People aren't sure if he is a god or crazy." Sort of first appearance to me seems based off of Masterson's doubt of himself as Thor's replacement initially and kind of a nod at Thor possibly not actually being mythological Thor. But of course that's my interpretation and everyone sees something different in character traits then and again.
 

Jake Martinez

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Fappy said:
Mjolnir is magical. I don't think it's all that unbelievable that it can change the pronoun etched on it when it comes into contact with another sex. If this kicks up any kind of controversy at all I will be extremely disappointed in whoever stokes the flames.
Agreed. This is just derpy.

Frozengale said:
Shouldn't the hammer just be gender neutral?

I guess it changing to fit its wielder's gender is fine. But why not just make it "Whosoever holds this hammer, if THEY be worthy, shall possess the power of Thor."
Most people, and I dare venture this includes "magical hammers" don't obsess over pronouns.

Frankly, if Thor's hammer wouldn't work for a woman because she was a woman, then that'd be more notable.


The dumb thing has already been lifted by women (I see someone posted the terrible DC vs. Marvel crossover), robots, ghosts, aliens and anthropomorphic animals.
 

JimB

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Warning: I am about to engage in a completely unforgivable amount of wankery. You may want to skip this post. Even I'm a little embarrassed of it.

Jake Martinez said:
Most people, and I dare venture this includes "magical hammers," don't obsess over pronouns.
In the Egyptian language, the word for magic is "hekau." It's a bit of a tricky word to translate into English, but you could say it means "powerful speech" or "powerful words" and be basically right. See, the Egyptians believed that words were a form of power, and that speech could make magical things happen. They weren't alone, either. Hell, there is (or was; I doubt it still has any particular following) even an old heresy that Adam had power over the beasts of Eden because of the act of naming them, which was a kind of sorcery that defined their natures according to his will. The idea that precise phrasing can make magic happen is all throughout our current understanding of magic, from D&D's verbal spell components to Harry Potter's chanted spells to stories of evil genies and devils granting horribly ironic wishes by obeying the letter of the law while ignoring the spirit.

So would a magical hammer care about phrasing? It wouldn't surprise me a bit.
 

JimB

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bat32391 said:
Where have I been? When and how did Thor become a woman?
I don't think it's happened yet, but as far as I know, the current story arc in Thor has been building up to him becoming less and less worthy of Mjolnir. It will culminate in him losing Mjolnir, and an original, new character taking the hammer and the mantle.