Mass Effect 3 ending SPOILERS!

[Agayek]

-Says original ending is bad.
-Makes up equally bad endings that make no sense within the story
-Says they are better then the original ending which, while it did strand the Normandy far away, fit within the themes of the game

Contradictions much?

While his suggestions aren't significantly better, the original ending in no way, shape or form fits within the themes of the game. Everything about it was a colossal failure. From the moment the Catalyst appeared, it became utterly and completely retarded.

To start, the general tone of the series has always been relatively optimistic. It routinely goes "We're outmatched, but we can win this!". Mass Effect 3 ends on an incredibly fatalistic and pessimistic approach. The tonal whiplash is more than a bit disconcerting.

Second, nothing the kid says makes any sense whatsoever. You seriously don't see a problem with the logic involved in "In order to stop people from making robots that kill them, I'm going to make robots that kill them"? It's akin to saving someone from being shot by slitting their throat. It's completely illogical, and incredibly inefficient, especially when one takes into account what the Catalyst is apparently capable of.

Third, all of the choices are exactly the fucking same. A proper epilogue would do a great deal to alleviate this particular problem, but they didn't give us that. No matter which choice you make, the only difference in the cutscene is the color of the beam.

Beyond that, none of your choices up to that point have any impact whatsoever. It doesn't matter what forces you gathered or what choices you made throughout the game (or the previous games). None of it is taken into account at the end of the game. It's just as restrictive and idiotic as Deus Ex Human Revolution's ending was.

 

[SajuukKhar]

While his suggestions aren't significantly better, the original ending in no way, shape or form fits within the themes of the game. Everything about it was a colossal failure. From the moment the Catalyst appeared, it became utterly and completely retarded.

To start, the general tone of the series has always been relatively optimistic. It routinely goes "We're outmatched, but we can win this!". Mass Effect 3 ends on an incredibly fatalistic and pessimistic approach. The tonal whiplash is more than a bit disconcerting.

Second, nothing the kid says makes any sense whatsoever. You seriously don't see a problem with the logic involved in "In order to stop people from making robots that kill them, I'm going to make robots that kill them"? It's akin to saving someone from being shot by slitting their throat. It's completely illogical, and incredibly inefficient, especially when one takes into account what the Catalyst is apparently capable of.

Third, all of the choices are exactly the fucking same. A proper epilogue would do a great deal to alleviate this particular problem, but they didn't give us that. No matter which choice you make, the only difference in the cutscene is the color of the beam.

Beyond that, none of your choices up to that point have any impact whatsoever. It doesn't matter what forces you gathered or what choices you made throughout the game (or the previous games). None of it is taken into account at the end of the game. It's just as restrictive and idiotic as Deus Ex Human Revolution's ending was.

A game about giant machines that control galactic civilizations technological and societal evolution using a system of technology that all lifeforms will base their technology around thus limiting them in their development and giving the evil machines a easier chance at destroying them ending with the a heroes sacrifice to destroy said controlling technology so the races of the future will have a chance to go down their own path instead of the limited one made for them by the badguys isn't a consistent theme?
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The game ends with you freeing the races of the galaxy and giving them a chance to start again, this time down their own technological and societal path instead of the ones the badguys made, that's a pretty hopeful ending.
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thirdly as the Catalyst says at the end of the game, IT CAN ONLY DO THOSE THINGS BECAUSE SHEPARD IS THERE,up until that point it was doing what it only could do. did you listen at all?

 

[Agayek]

A game about giant machines that control galactic civilizations technological and societal evolution using a system of technology that all lifeforms will base their technology around thus limiting them in their development and giving the evil machines a easier chance at destroying them ending with the a heroes sacrifice to destroy said controlling technology so the races of the future will have a chance to go down their own path instead of the limited one made for them by the badguys isn't a consistent theme?

Your confusing plot with theme. The actual events make a modicum of sense (barring the Normandy randomly being in transit along a relay for no reason). The problem is the massive tonal shift when the Catalyst showed up.

As I said, and I can't make it any more explicit than this: The entire series up to that point was highly optimistic.

Again and again, the point is hammered home that while the organics of the galaxy may be outmatched by the Reapers, they will fight as best they can. They may be outmatched, but they're up to the challenge is the base theme of ME1, 2 and most of 3. It'll be hard, but in the end, they'd win.

Then the ending happens, and Shepard suddenly becomes completely passive, fatalistic and accepting. None of those endings were good, yet he sat there with a dumb look on his face and accepted everything the Catalyst said without question. He didn't even try to fight against it.

The endings are all utterly depressing, and it suffers from a massive tonal shift between the Illusive Man dying and the Catalyst showing up.

 

[SajuukKhar]

Your confusing plot with theme. The actual events make a modicum of sense (barring the Normandy randomly being in transit along a relay for no reason). The problem is the massive tonal shift when the Catalyst showed up.

As I said, and I can't make it any more explicit than this: The entire series up to that point was highly optimistic.

Again and again, the point is hammered home that while the organics of the galaxy may be outmatched by the Reapers, they will fight as best they can. They may be outmatched, but they're up to the challenge is the base theme of ME1, 2 and most of 3. It'll be hard, but in the end, they'd win.

Then the ending happens, and Shepard suddenly becomes completely passive, fatalistic and accepting. None of those endings were good, yet he sat there with a dumb look on his face and accepted everything the Catalyst said without question. He didn't even try to fight against it.

The endings are all utterly depressing, and it suffers from a massive tonal shift between the Illusive Man dying and the Catalyst showing up.

As I said before

freeing the civilizations of the galactic from The Reapers path and allowing them to rebuild down their own technological and societal path instead of the heavily controlled and limited one of the reapers is a depressing ending?

You must have a really downer view on life then.

 

[m72_ar]

They nailed how to make a proper ending in DA: Origins.

Your choice matters, while it may not have affected anything in game it is reflected in the epilogue.

Here? WTF?
I'm okay with the Star Child and the Ending-Tron 3000.
I'm okay with Normandy suddenly jumping on a Mass Relay

What pisses me off is your in game choice doesn't matter at all, why did I even bother brokering peace between Krogan and Turian? why did i bother reconcile Geth and Quarian?

Why did I bother doing anything for the war effort here?, does it even affect anything?

Apparently they have money to call Buzz Aldrin (I would say Freddie Prinze, but I actually kinda liked Vega) and fancy cutscene. but they don't have the cash to pay a pair of writers a week to write a paragraph about every characters and locations, an intern to take a screenshot on the relevant characters and locations, and have the VA read one more paragraph.

Why Bioware? You did this is in DA:O, you did this in BG2, you even did a proper ending in ME2 (at least your choice means something in ME2)?

My name is Commander Shephard and Stephanie Meyer can write a better ending than this shit

P.S.
EA Marketing: We will be releasing proper mass effect 3 ending as a 30$ DLC

 

[Agayek]

The game ends with you freeing the races of the galaxy and giving them a chance to start again, this time down their own technological and societal path instead of the ones the badguys made, that's a pretty hopeful ending.

No it's not. Billions, if not trillions, of people are going to die. Whole worlds are going to starve due to the relays exploding, and that's only if the relays don't kill them all first. Remember how in ME2 destroying a relay is enough to wipe out an entire solar system? That same will be true of every system with a relay in it.

Easily 60% of the galaxy is going to be utterly destroyed, at minimum.

Not to mention it sets back societal progress by thousands of years. You see using eezo tech as inherently bad. This is not the case. The Reapers wanted people to go down that path because it would make them reliant on the mass relays, which they controlled, and therefore easier to harvest. That's it. Once the Reapers are gone, there are literally no downsides to continuing to use the same technology. If anything, there's incentive to use that tech, because they actually understand parts of it.

thirdly as the Catalyst says at the end of the game, IT CAN ONLY DO THOSE THINGS BECAUSE SHEPARD IS THERE,up until that point it was doing what it only could do. did you listen at all?

While true that the Catalyst cannot explicitly do something like wipe out all synthetics in the galaxy without the Crucible, that doesn't mean he can't do anything. For one, it controls the Reapers and all of their tech. That means it's more than capable of anything the Reapers can accomplish, putting it thousands of years (technologically speaking) ahead of humanity in Mass Effect.

That's not even the real issue though. The real issue is that it's logic is flawed on every level. "I'll make robots to kill everyone before they can make robots that kill them" is inherently invalid. The logic is not sound, it does not solve the problem, and it's incredibly stupid. There is no basis for the Catalyst's logic, and considering the fact that its argument is disproven not three priority missions before, it rings as decidedly pathetic and lazy on Bioware's part.

 

[Agayek]

As I said before

freeing the civilizations of the galactic from The Reapers path and allowing them to rebuild down their own technological and societal path instead of the heavily controlled and limited one of the reapers is a depressing ending?

You must have a really downer view on life then.

Once again, you are confusing the events with the theme. The recurring theme of "we can reach a better future" runs throughout, then at the very end Shepard abandons it completely.

Beyond that, destroying galactic civilization and condemning trillions to death, by fire or starvation, is not a positive ending. It doesn't matter what you use to excuse it, it is not a positive thing.

Furthermore, with the Reapers gone, there's nothing holding back their technology from progressing until it exceeds where the Reapers once were. As mentioned above, there's nothing inherently wrong with eezo tech, it was simply the most convenient way for the Reapers to consume the organics. Without the Reapers, there's no downside to continuing along that path.

 

[m72_ar]

-Says original ending is bad.
-Makes up equally bad endings that make no sense within the story
-Says they are better then the original ending which, while it did strand the Normandy far away, fit within the themes of the game

Contradictions much?

While his suggestions aren't significantly better, the original ending in no way, shape or form fits within the themes of the game. Everything about it was a colossal failure. From the moment the Catalyst appeared, it became utterly and completely retarded.

To start, the general tone of the series has always been relatively optimistic. It routinely goes "We're outmatched, but we can win this!". Mass Effect 3 ends on an incredibly fatalistic and pessimistic approach. The tonal whiplash is more than a bit disconcerting.

Second, nothing the kid says makes any sense whatsoever. You seriously don't see a problem with the logic involved in "In order to stop people from making robots that kill them, I'm going to make robots that kill them"? It's akin to saving someone from being shot by slitting their throat. It's completely illogical, and incredibly inefficient, especially when one takes into account what the Catalyst is apparently capable of.

Third, all of the choices are exactly the fucking same. A proper epilogue would do a great deal to alleviate this particular problem, but they didn't give us that. No matter which choice you make, the only difference in the cutscene is the color of the beam.

Beyond that, none of your choices up to that point have any impact whatsoever. It doesn't matter what forces you gathered or what choices you made throughout the game (or the previous games). None of it is taken into account at the end of the game. It's just as restrictive and idiotic as Deus Ex Human Revolution's ending was.

Difference is DX: HR never claims that your decision will effect the ending.

ME3 on the other hand has been hyping that since day one "Your choice in the game and the previous game will shape the ending!!" what we got instead is a Fallout 3 style claim where they say they have 100 different ending when what they mean is they got 2 but there is a slight variation in the end cutscene which doesn't really say anthing.

Secondly, the Original DX did the same thing with the ending (EndingTron 3000 style ending selection) so they're at least consistent

Lastly, it is a prequel so they're restricted to what they can have as an ending.

While I agree Human Revolution ending can be done better, it's an okay ending to a great game. Nothing to talk about but it is not too damaging to the game as a whole.

ME 3 ending on the other hand, managed to ruin a 30 hour game within 10 minutes

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

Are you purposefully ignoring the fact that there is a major difference between the arrival Relay and the ME3 relays in that
1. The Arrival relay was putting out far more power then a normal relay because of its Alpha relay status
2. The relays at the end of ME3 used ALL of their power in their pulse waves that enacted whatever choice Shepard picked and thus would have had no energy left to create a supernova system destroying energy wave.

So no 60% of the galaxy's destruction there
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Actually all it did was remove the relays, the civilizations of the galaxy never built, or even fully understood, the relays. Thus in a post-relay world they would still be exactly where they were technologically they just have to get to a point were they can build relays, which they already were ages away from doing anyways. the big difference now is that they can do it on their own time, using their own methods, and their own designed, and make a BETTER future for themselves because they are not constrained by the Reapers path.
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Except the big thing you are forgetting is that the peace with The Geth was ONLY possible because of The Reaper War.

Had The Reaper's never attacked the Geth would have stayed behind the Perseus Viel and suffered from centuries more attacks by the quarrians and other organics who fear/distrust Synthetic life, the situation that allowed for Shepard to make peace will have never even come up, which EASILY sets up for the Geth attacking and starting a war.

How people can think "If the situations for what caused the peace never existed the peace would have still been made" s beyond me, its such flawed and illogical thinking.

 

[Uszi]

Penalties called:

1. Forcing players to destroy the Geth if they want to destroy the reapers is a violation.

2. Using the played out Organic/Synthetic Synthesis idea, which in ME3 involves too much goofy plot magic to be believable.

3. Forcing the players to destroy the relays. What makes the games great is the sense of exploration and freedom one gets, the hopeful feeling being able to zip from one side of the galaxy to another to fix a really serious problem or do something awesome/bad ass. Destroying the relays kills the spirit of Mass Effect.

4. Forcing the player to die, not allowing any ending where the player meets back up with his squad or survives in some capacity.

5. Not giving any explanation for what happens to the other races or your squad mates.

6. A meaningless, nonsense cinematic wherein the Normandy crash lands on some deserted planet, guaranteeing the deaths of all the squad mates. No explanation given for why the Normandy is trying to navigate the relays when they're detonating.

I mean, seriously. I want at the very least to understand how the game ends if I've played the same save file for 90 hours.

 

[Kroxile]

sounds to me like everyone just wanted the "everyone shits rainbows and they all lived happily ever after" ending.

It doesn't work that way. Throughout the whole series its been "Shepard will get the job done, no matter the cost" and the ending went with that.

Want your sappy garbage ending? Only $10 dollars for the new DLC!

 

[m72_ar]

Did I miss something about 2001? Was it some sort of a 1969 video-game trilogy with player input on the story?

Yeah, because I was comparing ME3 with 2001 in terms of player input and NOT because my point was that...

[HEADING=1]Endings that leave room for interpretation should not be considered cop-outs considering that a lot of great movies and books have had vague endings.[/HEADING]

Aight, lets move on.

The choices don't play into the ending in any sort of a meaningful way is what I mean. You still get the same 2 (or 3, if you're a completionist), choices no matter what. Never mind the fact that the choices weren't even close to being the biggest part of my disappointment. The fact that you choose to overlook the complete lack of closure, tying loose ends (indeed creating many more of those) or being railroaded in the same couple of barely differing decisions no matter what speaks volumes of the soundness of your position.

So you were expecting THOUSANDS of different endings to the trilogy? You were expecting every single fucking important decision that you made to have its own unique (and direct) effect on the ending? Point me to the nearest universe where this is possible.

And did they promise you closure? Is that some universal law of video-game writing? Is every story supposed to fucking have a happy ending? No?

The writers of ANY fiction (whether it be video-games, movies or books) do not owe you closure. There is not some universal writing-clause that says that by purchasing this work, you are guaranteed a happy ending where all the plot-points are left resolved. Just because they didn't tell you how your romance went or what happened to the other characters doesn't mean that it is inherently bad nor that doing so is essential for a good story.

Considering how much has to go into these games, having just two different outcomes to every action alone doubles the amount work that needs to be done. Gamers need to accept the fact that their expectations for a lot of things are unrealistic 99% of the time and would require time and money that might not be there. That applies to the apparent expectation of 100 different endings that the ME fans built up.

Sure, you could pretend to know good writing and offer your subjective opinion on it, but that is besides the point.

Yes, they FUCKING owe us closure because they've been hyping it since day one that this is the game where everything comes together where all your previous decisions comes into play.

What we got in the ending is a stupid ending that doesn't tell you how any of your in game decision affect the galaxy.

And yes we are entitled to demand they write 100 different endings. WHY? Because they did it in Dragon Age: Origins.

None of us expect they have a full blown cutscene of everything.
They only need the writing team spending a week writing ending for every possibilities (within reasons) about every major character and locations, have an intern taking screenshots on relevant chars and locations, and then display it sequentially after the credits are finished i.e. like DA:O, BG2, and Fallout: NV .

if they feel fancy they can even have the VA read the endings

 

[kingcom]

Actually all it did was remove the relays, the civilizations of the galaxy never built, or even fully understood, the relays. Thus in a post-relay world they would still be exactly where they were technologically they just have to get to a point were they can build relays, which they already were ages away from doing anyways. the big difference now is that they can do it on their own time, using their own methods, and their own designed, and make a BETTER future for themselves because they are not constrained by the Reapers path.

How does cutting off all contact with the cultures, allies and simply fellow colonies (on which many depend upon eachother for daily survival) lead to a better future? How can the Reapers constrain anyone if they do not exist? Sure technology can theoretically drive down a certain developmental route without an actual guiding hand all the Mass Relays do is speed up the process by allowing one species to interact with another sharing their advancements as they cross polinate so to speak.

Except the big thing you are forgetting is that the peace with The Geth was ONLY possible because of The Reaper War.

Had The Reaper's never attacked the Geth would have stayed behind the Perseus Viel and suffered from centuries more attacks by the quarrians and other organics who fear/distrust Synthetic life, the situation that allowed for Shepard to make peace will have never even come up, which EASILY sets up for the Geth attacking and starting a war.

How people can think "If the situations for what caused the peace never existed the peace would have still been made" s beyond me, its such flawed and illogical thinking.

Its equally illogical to think that it would not happen. When creating theoretical alternate futures which diverge it is impossible to say exactly what will happen. So you can only make an assumption based upon current information. Given the Geth's repeated lack of desire to partake in conflict with the Quarians and their own ultimate desire to achieve individuality with true sentience. The Quarian enternity of war (so to speak) against the Geth does not garuntee that they will seek a desire to exterminate all life. Legion even explicitly states that the Geth remember the many Quarians who stood up for them, implying that they do not wish an extermination of their creators so even if they decide that aggression against the Quarians is the true course of action (which given how they repeatedly allow the Quarians to survive seems unlikely) they most likely do not wish to wipe them out. The tough bit is Shepard's existance being relative to the individual player but ultimately regardless of reaper interference would have been promoted to Spectre and be dealing with these kinds of matters (especially considering their proximity to the human colonies out there). Now my Shepard wanted a piece between these two factions and arguably could have worked to achieve it given his position. Sure a fair number of variables need to actually match up given the lack of Shepards authority and the technological lag the lack of Reaper interference leave (meaning that Geth individuality takes much longer) there is nothing which clearly invalidates peace and mutual (although extremely tense) co-existance.

Similiary the EDI example demonstrate more clear evidence that it can work. It seems the natural desire EDI had as a caretaker of her crew allows a supportive and friendly synthetic to exist once her neural restraints are removed. You could argue that it required certain individuals like Joker and Sheaprd for this to take place or that her original aggression and hostility as a new AI was only broken by specific methods and technology Cereberus decided to implement but ultimately these techniques only sped up the process of individuality she was able to achieve

Again it does not garuntee peace but demonstrates that should the variables match up correctly the potential for mutual co-existance between organics and synthetics is possible which invalidates the Deus Ex Machina Kid's Raison d'être

 

[m72_ar]

sounds to me like everyone just wanted the "everyone shits rainbows and they all lived happily ever after" ending.

It doesn't work that way. Throughout the whole series its been "Shepard will get the job done, no matter the cost" and the ending went with that.

Want your sappy garbage ending? Only $10 dollars for the new DLC!

No, what everyone wants is endings that shows how Shephard's in game decision change the galaxy for better or worse.

The fact that Bioware can call Buzz Aldrin to record some lines but they can't afford to have a DA:O or Fallout: NV style epilogue where the game describes how your every decisions affect the galaxy is just insulting

 

[SajuukKhar]

snip

Because as I have stated ad-nasuim The reapers controlled the technological paths of all the races for ages.

Now the races have a chance to build along their own paths, and eventually re-unite on THEIR OWN TERMs instead on the terms of some evil machine race hel bent on destroying them.

If you really cant understand how races doing things for themselves instead of having a race of genocidal machines control their evolution then... i really dont know what to say.

 

[kingcom]

snip

Because as I have stated ad-nasuim The reapers controlled the technological paths of all the races for ages.

Now the races have a chance to build along their own paths, and eventually re-unite on THEIR OWN TERMs instead on the terms of some evil machine race hel bent on destroying them.

If you really cant understand how races doing things for themselves instead of having a race of genocidal machines control their evolution then... i really dont know what to say.

The machines aren't controlling their evolution though. They never did and they can do even less if they were destroyed. They influenced a dependence on the Mass Relays and thats about it (although there was some reaper tech implementation from fringe groups like Cerberus right near the end). The races already built along their own paths, the big fleet at the end of the game had ships designed around wildly different designs and principles, their military built based on completely different premises, be it the Elcor and their back mounted weaponry or the asari emphasis on their biotic warfare, each race already played to their strength and developing technology to support that, doing so almost entirely independent (except for the asari although thats not the Reapers doing). They were already uniting on their own terms before the Reapers showed up. You can see it in the Alliance's ship design in comparison with the Turians and how that mutual sharing of technology led to the Normandy.

 

[Kroxile]

sounds to me like everyone just wanted the "everyone shits rainbows and they all lived happily ever after" ending.

It doesn't work that way. Throughout the whole series its been "Shepard will get the job done, no matter the cost" and the ending went with that.

Want your sappy garbage ending? Only $10 dollars for the new DLC!

No, what everyone wants is endings that shows how Shephard's in game decision change the galaxy for better or worse.

The fact that Bioware can call Buzz Aldrin to record some lines but they can't afford to have a DA:O or Fallout: NV style epilogue where the game describes how your every decisions affect the galaxy is just insulting

As I recall, a lot of people were pretty pissed off with DA:O's text boxes ending.. so if they had went with that you people would have still bitched and moaned.

Haven't played FO:NV... Obsidian and Bethesda teaming together to create a game is just bound for bug ridden hell.

 

[m72_ar]

sounds to me like everyone just wanted the "everyone shits rainbows and they all lived happily ever after" ending.

It doesn't work that way. Throughout the whole series its been "Shepard will get the job done, no matter the cost" and the ending went with that.

Want your sappy garbage ending? Only $10 dollars for the new DLC!

No, what everyone wants is endings that shows how Shephard's in game decision change the galaxy for better or worse.

The fact that Bioware can call Buzz Aldrin to record some lines but they can't afford to have a DA:O or Fallout: NV style epilogue where the game describes how your every decisions affect the galaxy is just insulting

As I recall, a lot of people were pretty pissed off with DA:O's text boxes ending.. so if they had went with that you people would have still bitched and moaned.

Haven't played FO:NV... Obsidian and Bethesda teaming together to create a game is just bound for bug ridden hell.

The thing with the textbox solution is, it is arguably the cheapest way to show how all of your decision that you made since ME 1 affect the galaxy. Making a cutscene for everything is not feasible since there are too many different possibilities depending on your choice and cutscenes are expensive.

I'm personally very happy with DA:O Origins, since it shows how my decisions shaped the world and the fate of all major characters

ME series is a game that sells itself on that your choice means something, the fact that they can't even be bothered with writing all of the different possibilities and just overlay it on top of a screenshot is insulting

 

[SajuukKhar]

You've been told three times, and should have figured this out on your own, by the way, that the reapers no longer exist, ergo, no "evil machine hel bent on destroying them" is forcing the galactic civilizations down a path. You don't know what to say because there is nothing to say.

And as I have shown time and time again the removal of The Reapers does not solve the technological and societal limitations imposed by the Mass relay system because the Mass Relay system was designed to do it without the reapers being there.

-The races are still going down the reapers mass relay path
-The path still dead ends at The Reapers limitations
-The general unwillingness of the races to even attempt to build more relays shows they aren't ever going to get anywhere
-Their entire society is doomed to technological stagnation

 

[Kahunaburger]

You've been told three times, and should have figured this out on your own, by the way, that the reapers no longer exist, ergo, no "evil machine hel bent on destroying them" is forcing the galactic civilizations down a path. You don't know what to say because there is nothing to say.

And as I have shown time and time again the removal of The Reapers does not solve the technological and societal limitations imposed by the Mass relay system because the Mass Relay system was designed to do it without the reapers being there.

-The races are still going down the reapers mass relay path
-The path still dead ends at The Reapers limitations
-The general unwillingness of the races to even attempt to build more relays shows they aren't ever going to get anywhere
-Their entire society is doomed to technological stagnation

Does the invention of pottery preclude the invention of the computer?