Mass Effect 3 Gets An Ending

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neon_samurai

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Sandytimeman said:
Yeah, I feel like most journalists / critcs are on a completely different wave length then us gamers.

That being said I don't think bioware should have to remake the ending I just don't want to buy anything they sell ever again. Almost 300+ hours of game play to give me some depressing ass story where everyone fucking dies. Could have saved myself 80 bucks and 35 hours if I had just let shepard die in ME2...

TL;DR fuck bioware and don't buy from them anymore.

Dragon Age:Orgins, Jade Empire,Baldur's gate 1&2,Neverwinter Nights 1&2,Starwars:KOTAR 1&2, Shattered Steel, Mass Effect 1&2( Which are still great games.)
There you have it A list of why you should know what a company makes before damning it for one good game with an ending that didn't sit well with only one part of the fan base and that makes sense.
 

mfeff

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neon_samurai said:
Dragon age:eek:rigins, Starwars:KOTAR 1&2, Jade Empire,Neverwinter Nights 1&2, Baldur's Gate 1&2,Shattered Steel, Mass Effect 1&2(both still amazing games.)
There you have it a list of why you should know what a company makes rather than just damn it for one really good game with a ending that makes sense but does not sit well with a part of the fan-base.
EVERY GAME

you just mentioned, was written or worked on by Drew...

Not the lead writer of ME 3 that's Mac W. Drew was put on the MMO, and left the company at the beginning of the year. He also "created" the ME universe.

He also said, "it will be interesting to see how they handle this", as CLEARLY this was NOT the game he had in mind... but some "artist" had a "vision" and needed to make a "simple sequel" "deep", and faff'ed about, wasting time and money, took a rainbow dump in the box... and there ya go.

Art
 

Rylian

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Revolutionaryloser said:
Atmos Duality said:
Revolutionaryloser said:
For.I.Am.Mad said:
Chrono Trigger had multiple wildly different endings and nobody complained.
I know. So I really don't understand why Mass Effect fans are angry with the endings we already have.
It might have to do with how all the endings were based on the consequences of your actions.
Sure, the timing was a gimmick, but that's part of the decision and in fact THE core principle of the game: Mucking with continuity to try and get the "future" you want.

Hell, the Reptites Rule ending was used as the basis for half the plot in Chrono Cross.
I'm still not getting you. The whole of Mass Effect 3 is a culmination of the consequences of your actions.
No, actually, it isn't. The end takes place inside a bubble completely immune from any of your previous actions (and ripped right out of Deus Ex). No matter whether you got the quarians killed or destroyed the Rachni or any host of other paths which were open to you, you will still get to choose from the exact same A, B, or C endings so long as you have enough military strength. No consequences.
 

Axyun

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I'm suprised at Yahtzee's article. The issues here are that they delivered a technically weak ending (no biggie) and they lied about what they were going to do.

I'm a software consultant. If I tell my client I'm going to build a series of software components that, when combined, will provide features A, B and C. Then, after they've purchased every component, they get feature Z instead, they are not going to be happy.

We don't own Shepard or the ME franchise or the ME story. Just don't lie and keep quiet about it when people ask why you didn't deliver what you promised. It's called being a responsible business entity. Talk about artistic integrity all you want. The fact is you sold it for profit and we bought it based on what you said you were going to deliver.

We are still waiting for you to deliver.
 

General BrEeZy

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I actually might not play through it with my other 2 people now that i'm done. it just doesn't feel right. its almost like i just need to accept the ending and move on...*COUGH SPOILER i chose synthesis COUGH COUGH COUGH*
and i actually liked it. oddly enough. the "Solution" is actually logical. but the one thing i wish i could have said to the
*COUGH COUGH SPOILER Catalyst at the end is that Chaos is inevitable. none of your "Solutions" would prevent life from continuing or the galaxy to be a bad place. we just need to coexist and move on and NOT slaughter each other. The Quarians and Geth were a perfect example of that. COUGH COUGH**

I'm done.

I won't worry, the ending was fine by me. Life goes on. That was the mission and I completed it. Great effing game.
 

Awexsome

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I think they just tried to get too crazy with the ending and probably ended up writing themselves into a corner with the whole child-god final choice thing and ended up with the pallete swap endings. It's only a small part of the game though.

The cutscene of the start of the final battle on earth is now my new definition of "epic space battle".

The showdown with the illusive man was totally boss.

Every other story arc along with the gameplay was a total blast and that 30 hours (not even including multiplayer) I played isn't defined by that 10 minutes. It's an important 10 minutes, but not the whole game. It's still a 10/10 GOTY for me and most critics. Deal with it.
 

dessertmonkeyjk

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Given the fact that they have to keep track of loads of choices (although most side quests not so much) put the writers in a difficult position trying to cope with them all. You'll notice that even some major choices don't even matter from ME1 to ME2 and ME2 to ME3. The Rachni is almost completely ignored even if you do kill the last queen in existance. It tends to be more cameo and references rather then actual impact most of the time. Picking Udina wouldn't matter since he becomes a Citadel Concuiler regardless and is then shot no matter what.

I'm surprised hardly anyone is complaining about THAT. Also, no playable spaceship battles?! FUUUUUUUUU!
 

lucky_sharm

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TsunamiWombat said:
Point. Missing it. Thanks for not understanding, Yahtzee.

Holding the Line.
What. Is. The Point. Then. Thanks for not clarifying, random forumer.

Elaboration.
 

Char-Nobyl

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You could make a convincing argument that the ongoing theme of the Mass Effect series is the hopelessness of escaping from the terrifying cycle of existence. It's constantly implied throughout the series that while the Reapers are, on the surface, a force of destruction devised to wipe out all organic life for no understandable reason, it may be the case that there's some unavoidable, essential purpose to their actions. I believe it's only in ME3 that they come right out and say that the Reapers exist to wipe out all advanced civilizations before they get too uppity and fuck everything up, leaving all the rock suckers and mouth breathers to fill the gap, and that this cycle has kept life in the universe in stable existence for longer than anyone can contemplate.
That's quite a layer of Shitshine you've sprayed on a turd of a plot point.

Organics weren't going to cause some sort of apocalyptic disruption of the natural order, thus needing the Reapers to destroy them: in the words of the child AI, organics were being destroyed because they would inevitably create a synthetic race that would be their undoing. In other words...



The theme of inescapable cycles can be seen elsewhere in the series, such as the implication that ending the Krogan genophage will cause the Krogan wars to happen again.
No shit, Sherlock. That was a theme because Shepard and, by effect, the player, was breaking those cycles. The only time that there's real reason to believe that history will repeat itself with the krogan is if your choices led you to that point, specifically if Wreav is in charge and especially if Eve is dead. The cycle only repeats if you let it. Hell, in ME1, you had the option of killing the last rachni queen, effectively destroying their entire species.

Taking this as the series' theme, the ending of ME3 makes sense. In fact, it would make even more sense if everyone had just gotten wiped the fuck out and the cycle is shown to start again. It would show that even Commander Shepard, a man with all the resources available to anyone in the universe, the greatest technology, the greatest minds and the greatest navies at his side, is powerless to overcome the inevitability of entropy.
Actually, that wouldn't make sense. As a man who despises DLC as much as you do, I doubt you got the Prothean squadmate, so you probably don't know the tidbits of backstory he provides.

In short, the downfall of the Prothean Empire was in their uniformity. Every race that composed the empire fought as a Prothean, not as whatever race they were. Crippling overspecialization, if you're a troper. As a result, Javik (the Prothean squadmate) actually thinks the races of the ME era have a chance against the Reapers because they traded the total stability via uniformity for moderate stability with diversity.

So with that in mind, no, it wouldn't have made sense for it to end that way. If this were the story of the Prothean Empire, it might've made sense, because for all their power and knowledge, they still lost against the Reapers because they simply couldn't adapt once the Reapers knew how to fight them.

Alternatively Shepard could save everyone from the Reapers and the universe would immediately descend into the very apocalyptic infighting the Reapers were created to stop.
Which is what virtually everyone assumes with the given ending. Because of how horrifically shortsighted blowing up the mass relays is and all.

But I doubt the fanbase of Mass Effect were dismayed because they wanted an appropriate ending to the story.
Wow. I'm surprised you're being this presumptuous after your old Mailbag Showdown made it clear that you regard presumptuous people as, quote, "dickhead."

Rather, they wanted some kind of appropriate closure for the many-storied and I would argue unnecessarily lengthy process up to this point. Perhaps some epilogue where we get to see what all the characters we met along the way got up to after the events of the series, which I imagine would be easier if they hadn't pretty much all been killed off.
That's a horrible idea. Fans are upset because the ending was terrible on levels deeper than thought possible from Bioware. Providing an epilogue that shows how everyone dealt with the horrific ending is like comforting someone with a horrific disease by telling them how they originally acquired said disease. Their organs are still shutting down, but hey, at least they know unrelated facts pertaining to their specific case. That makes it better, right?

I've been given to understand that Bioware are talking about changing the ending under the massive pressure from the idiot fanbase, and I hope like hell they're just talking about doing something like that, an epilogue appendix style thing just to square away the subplots.
Oh, God. Please, don't do this, Yahtzee. I know you like the whole 'games are art' thing, but I see where this is going. I can already smell the horrible, self-righteous odor of the term 'bad precedent.'

Because it would set a horrible precedent
GODDAMNIT

if they're serious about actually changing the ending in line with some kind of democratically agreed upon alternative, rather than merely expanding or adding to it.
I'm guessing you never actually looked at the "Shepard was indoctrinated" theory yet?

Check it out. It would provide more than enough of a window to freely change the ending without outright retconning stuff.

I'm not as incensed about this concept as Moviebob has been on Twitter lately, but I can definitely say it's a bad idea. Because if it's established that the creators of a story can be pressured by constant browbeating by the audience, then the sanctity of the creator's original intention is made meaningless. The series will effectively have no ending, just a big gap with the words "Audience: Fill In Your Preferred Ending Here".
Oh, the beloved slippery slope argument. "If Bioware changes the Mass Effect ending, soon no game will have a solid ending! And same-sex marriage will lead to human-dog marriages! And women's suffrage will lead to hamster suffrage!"

This may be a time of politically correct inclusion of all points of view, but sooner or later the cockheads of the world are just going to have to accept that there are people who know better than them. You know. People who don't have cocks for heads.
I can already see this being added to the 'Dethroning Moment of Suck' trope page for ZP. I've been a fan since your Darkness demo days, but this was a misstep for you. For a critic who prides himself on reviewing for the average gamer, you're not reading the direction the wind's blowing very well.

It probably doesn't help that you clearly didn't like the series very much, and now you're mounting a multi-story high horse to call everyone who was very much invested in the series and outraged by the conclusion a "cockhead." I could understand if you didn't see what all the fuss was about. But frankly, it's a bit tough to accept your attempts to break down the major thematic elements of the story while you simultaneously remind us that you kitted your Shepard out with hot pink armor and a handlebar mustache and named him 'Titty.'

You're more than eloquent enough to convince us that you're knowledgeable in the area. But when you're obviously not taking the thing seriously, it pretty much cripples your credibility and makes the insults you sling out seem like a particularly easily-hated flavor of ignorant.
 

wintercoat

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Sigh...Okay, I am going to completely explain the retardedness that is the "synthetics created to kill organics to prevent synthetics from killing organics" thing. Ready?

The Reapers were created, not to kill advanced organic life, but to ascend it to the singularity of form that the Reapers are. This is done to stop the creation of synthetic life that will wipe out all organic life, from complex animals to simple bacterium, to even strings of amino acids and proteins. They view Reaper-fication as a gift. They don't view the deaths of trillions as a loss, because they go into the manufacture of what they view as a perfect being.

Sure, it's still bat-shit insane, but from a cold logic standpoint, it makes a weird sense.
 

Syzygy23

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Seventh Actuality said:
So was the objection that audiences wanted things to finish with multiple different outcomes?
Why the fuck would you think that?

The ending was terrible because it came right the fuck out of nowhere, had literally nothing to do with anything that had previously happened in this game or the first two and did not work on any level. It wasn't bad because it was too limited or bittersweet or artsy or complex or erudite or sad. It was just fucking bad, stupid, balls-out incompetent writing that would not be tolerated or defended in any other medium.
Son, what we have here is a bona-fide Big Lipped Alligator Moment.
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigLippedAlligatorMoment

I need to stop browsing tvtropes.

wintercoat said:
Sigh...Okay, I am going to completely explain the retardedness that is the "synthetics created to kill organics to prevent synthetics from killing organics" thing. Ready?

The Reapers were created, not to kill advanced organic life, but to ascend it to the singularity of form that the Reapers are. This is done to stop the creation of synthetic life that will wipe out all organic life, from complex animals to simple bacterium, to even strings of amino acids and proteins. They view Reaper-fication as a gift. They don't view the deaths of trillions as a loss, because they go into the manufacture of what they view as a perfect being.

Sure, it's still bat-shit insane, but from a cold logic standpoint, it makes a weird sense.
Except not really, especially when you have the Quarians and the Geth fighting side-by side right outside the fucking window, not to mention the whole EDI/Joker thing.

Not only that, but ever since the first mass effect EVERY time you have had contact with a reaper they've always said "You can't possibly comprehend our goals and designs!" And yet their motivations are pretty damn easy to understand. Even if they are incredibly RETARDED reasons.

Char-Nobyl said:
Sounds to me like you were tired of Yahtzees Disingenuous Assertions, am I right?

Also, I think now that you have, in my eyes, squarely put Yahtzee in his place, you must become the new Yahtzee. It's like the Flying Dutchman thing from that Pirate movie with Johnny Depp.
 

00slash00

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summarizing the majority of the comments: wahhh, fuck you yahtzee. you dont know anything about video games, im right and youre wrong because....well, because i said so!
 

wintercoat

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00slash00 said:
summarizing the majority of the comments: wahhh, fuck you yahtzee. you dont know anything about video games, im right and youre wrong because....well, because i said so!
As opposed to Yahtzee's "you're all a bunch of cockheads who don't know shit"?
 

00slash00

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wintercoat said:
00slash00 said:
summarizing the majority of the comments: wahhh, fuck you yahtzee. you dont know anything about video games, im right and youre wrong because....well, because i said so!
As opposed to Yahtzee's "you're all a bunch of cockheads who don't know shit"?
based on what ive seen, im inclined to agree with yahtzee on that one
 

00slash00

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wintercoat said:
00slash00 said:
wintercoat said:
00slash00 said:
summarizing the majority of the comments: wahhh, fuck you yahtzee. you dont know anything about video games, im right and youre wrong because....well, because i said so!
As opposed to Yahtzee's "you're all a bunch of cockheads who don't know shit"?
based on what ive seen, im inclined to agree with yahtzee on that one
And I'm inclined to believe that if you believe that the fate of the "video games as art" debate hinges on whether or not Bioware changes the ending, you're a retarded monkey who shouldn't be allowed near an electrical devise for fear you'll kill yourself, let alone allowed to use a computer. Aren't baseless insults towards an entire group fun and amusing?
uh oh, well then you better let my boss know right away, and you should also probably contact the people who trained me to be a technical director. that involves a computer AND various electrical devices. plus, theres probably laws against using monkeys as part of your workforce.

i dont really get what youre trying to say. that im an asshole because i side more with people like yahtzee and bob than i do with mass effect fanboys?
 

satsugaikaze

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wintercoat said:
00slash00 said:
summarizing the majority of the comments: wahhh, fuck you yahtzee. you dont know anything about video games, im right and youre wrong because....well, because i said so!
As opposed to Yahtzee's "you're all a bunch of cockheads who don't know shit"?
At least Yahtzee has a reason to do it: he gets paid for his false flippancy. Sure, self-righteous is self-righteous, but he makes a living out of it, and power to him.

The average consumer, however, hurls abuse simply because it's his/her feelings. =P
 

wintercoat

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00slash00 said:
wintercoat said:
00slash00 said:
wintercoat said:
00slash00 said:
summarizing the majority of the comments: wahhh, fuck you yahtzee. you dont know anything about video games, im right and youre wrong because....well, because i said so!
As opposed to Yahtzee's "you're all a bunch of cockheads who don't know shit"?
based on what ive seen, im inclined to agree with yahtzee on that one
And I'm inclined to believe that if you believe that the fate of the "video games as art" debate hinges on whether or not Bioware changes the ending, you're a retarded monkey who shouldn't be allowed near an electrical devise for fear you'll kill yourself, let alone allowed to use a computer. Aren't baseless insults towards an entire group fun and amusing?
uh oh, well then you better let my boss know right away, and you should also probably contact the people who trained me to be a technical director. that involves a computer AND various electrical devices. plus, theres probably laws against using monkeys as part of your workforce.

i dont really get what youre trying to say. that im an asshole because i side more with people like yahtzee and bob than i do with mass effect fanboys?
Sigh...no, I'm saying that throwing around baseless moronic insults to define an entire group makes you a cockhead more deserving of the term than the people you label with it.

And yes, if you truly believe that the fate of an entire industry revolves around a single event, you're an idiot.
 

00slash00

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wintercoat said:
00slash00 said:
wintercoat said:
00slash00 said:
wintercoat said:
00slash00 said:
summarizing the majority of the comments: wahhh, fuck you yahtzee. you dont know anything about video games, im right and youre wrong because....well, because i said so!
As opposed to Yahtzee's "you're all a bunch of cockheads who don't know shit"?
based on what ive seen, im inclined to agree with yahtzee on that one
And I'm inclined to believe that if you believe that the fate of the "video games as art" debate hinges on whether or not Bioware changes the ending, you're a retarded monkey who shouldn't be allowed near an electrical devise for fear you'll kill yourself, let alone allowed to use a computer. Aren't baseless insults towards an entire group fun and amusing?
uh oh, well then you better let my boss know right away, and you should also probably contact the people who trained me to be a technical director. that involves a computer AND various electrical devices. plus, theres probably laws against using monkeys as part of your workforce.

i dont really get what youre trying to say. that im an asshole because i side more with people like yahtzee and bob than i do with mass effect fanboys?
Sigh...no, I'm saying that throwing around baseless moronic insults to define an entire group makes you a cockhead more deserving of the term than the people you label with it.

And yes, if you truly believe that the fate of an entire industry revolves around a single event, you're an idiot.
i never insulted anyone. all i said was that i agree more with what yahtzee and bob have said. if you honestly think that agreeing with them means that im calling all the fans cockheads then fine. thats not how i look at it but if thats how you wanna look at it then go ahead. im not saying that bioware changing their ending will suddenly mean that all game companies will have to check with their fans before releasing a game to make sure the ending is good enough. but i do believe that if this is the ending the writers had planned for the story, then they shouldnt feel obligated to change it.
 

Grivahri

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The reason why game critics are all against rewriting the ending is simple. They do not care about the ending or the mass effect series as much as we do. They play different games constantly and are paid to analyse whether it is good or not. The release of mass effect 3 means as much for them as any other game. The like the game but they are not emotionally attached to the game.

We, on the other hand, love the games for many different reasons other than it is an objectively good game. It is more than just a game for many of us.
 

I.Muir

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Suppose everybody's problem was that whoever thought up that godawful piece of shit ending had the cock for a head and not the other way around and we would be back at square one, do not collect $100. Of course I'm assuming you are saying that the developer is in the right when there is no right. This is not exactly a moral quarrel (hur hur) but rather the fans feeling betrayed because they were kicked in the teeth yet again by a previously loved developer who had, since dragon age gone into denial and has behaved as childishly as it's fans for the free publicity ever since.

So what if one company buckled under pressure from it's fans, it doesn't necessarily mean that other company's are left without the option to man up and just do whatever the hell they want. So instead of actually influencing it we should just let the publisher decide what we want which happens to be chest high walls and more cross species sex then you can poke a stick at. Unconsciously influencing that group of disconnected gits that sit at the top can't be worse than consciously doing so. Believe it or not most people are not bat shit insane so that system might even be worth a try.

Also what artistic integrity, that flew out the window way before EA got involved. Why assume that the series had a overarching vision to begin with. The theme of reapers preventing the destructive rise of other synthetics was introduced and concluded in a mere 14 lines by a hitherto unknown character at the very end. The reapers were better off being inscrutably evil like so many other villains instead of the dev pretending they are pushing some sort of boundary. The only boundary they might of pushed is shit we can get away with and still have people buy it.