Mass Effect 3 Gets An Ending
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
Well, the ending you get in Chrono Trigger depends on the consequences of your actions.Revolutionaryloser said:
It's just that there are fewer actions that matter.
Besides, if you're comparing them on the premise that most actions should matter, you're comparing two games with two different promises.
Bioware said that your actions would matter in Mass Effect and the games are designed to do so (until the end of 3 anyway).
The culmination of your decisions in Chrono Trigger wasn't the focus, nor was it really the promise. You saved the world through time travel shenanigans...
In that, it's not a fair point of comparison if you're actually addressing the ME3 controversy, because Squaresoft didn't make the same promises Bioware did.
I don't think anyone who makes this argument. (Besides those that say the Mass Relays blowing up would do that. But thats a different argument) Actually paid attention to what went into the final battle if you saved the Quarians. People say the Turians and Quarians are both dead but thats illogical because the Quarians brought their civilian fleet and live ships with them so they can still live even if they don't have a planet to live on. They can also probably make food for at least some of the Turians that came to survive. Also not ALL the Turians came to Earth. there are still all the ones back on Palavin.Sandytimeman said:
The Quarian liveships are barely able to sustain their population. It's the reason they control their population so carefully. Even with the number of dead Quarians, you're still looking at 100's of thousands, or even millions of Turians. There will be mass starvation. Mass starvation doesn't exactly make people happy. Add in the Krogan, a ravaged Earth, and several other races who will be in a mass panic, what with the whole "what the fuck just happened why did the relays blow up" mindset that you can pretty much guarantee everyone's gonna be in, and you have the makings of a really, really bad thing. When mass hysteria happens nowadays, it causes a whole host of problems. Now crank that dial up to "dystopic near apocalypse" and see what happens.Krion_Vark said:
Oh, and also, there's almost nobody left on Palavan. They've evacuated almost everyone. There's even a codex entry about it. Basically, the Reapers fell for the oldest trick in the book(what kind of super AI falls for a feint?!).
You and both, mate.Revolutionaryloser said:
As for the degree of similarity between the endings; I'm only giving you the differences in the advertised premises there, because Chrono Trigger had NONE of the fan buildup or pre-established emotional baggage going into the game, so there was nothing established to potentially ruin or screw up (no, the SEQUEL did some of that regardless, which is why few like it except as a comparison to Trigger).
I'll let the fans who beat the game rage about it. Me? I'm just tired of the issue, yet it's the only thing people seem to really talk about lately.
:\
Sandytimeman said:
Dragon Age:Orgins, Jade Empire,Baldur's gate 1&2,Neverwinter Nights 1&2,Starwars:KOTAR 1&2, Shattered Steel, Mass Effect 1&2( Which are still great games.)
There you have it A list of why you should know what a company makes before damning it for one good game with an ending that didn't sit well with only one part of the fan base and that makes sense.
EVERY GAMEneon_samurai said:Dragon agerigins, Starwars:KOTAR 1&2, Jade Empire,Neverwinter Nights 1&2, Baldur's Gate 1&2,Shattered Steel, Mass Effect 1&2(both still amazing games.)
There you have it a list of why you should know what a company makes rather than just damn it for one really good game with a ending that makes sense but does not sit well with a part of the fan-base.
you just mentioned, was written or worked on by Drew...
Not the lead writer of ME 3 that's Mac W. Drew was put on the MMO, and left the company at the beginning of the year. He also "created" the ME universe.
He also said, "it will be interesting to see how they handle this", as CLEARLY this was NOT the game he had in mind... but some "artist" had a "vision" and needed to make a "simple sequel" "deep", and faff'ed about, wasting time and money, took a rainbow dump in the box... and there ya go.
Art
No, actually, it isn't. The end takes place inside a bubble completely immune from any of your previous actions (and ripped right out of Deus Ex). No matter whether you got the quarians killed or destroyed the Rachni or any host of other paths which were open to you, you will still get to choose from the exact same A, B, or C endings so long as you have enough military strength. No consequences.Revolutionaryloser said:
I'm suprised at Yahtzee's article. The issues here are that they delivered a technically weak ending (no biggie) and they lied about what they were going to do.
I'm a software consultant. If I tell my client I'm going to build a series of software components that, when combined, will provide features A, B and C. Then, after they've purchased every component, they get feature Z instead, they are not going to be happy.
We don't own Shepard or the ME franchise or the ME story. Just don't lie and keep quiet about it when people ask why you didn't deliver what you promised. It's called being a responsible business entity. Talk about artistic integrity all you want. The fact is you sold it for profit and we bought it based on what you said you were going to deliver.
We are still waiting for you to deliver.
I'm a software consultant. If I tell my client I'm going to build a series of software components that, when combined, will provide features A, B and C. Then, after they've purchased every component, they get feature Z instead, they are not going to be happy.
We don't own Shepard or the ME franchise or the ME story. Just don't lie and keep quiet about it when people ask why you didn't deliver what you promised. It's called being a responsible business entity. Talk about artistic integrity all you want. The fact is you sold it for profit and we bought it based on what you said you were going to deliver.
We are still waiting for you to deliver.
I actually might not play through it with my other 2 people now that i'm done. it just doesn't feel right. its almost like i just need to accept the ending and move on...*COUGH SPOILER i chose synthesis COUGH COUGH COUGH*
and i actually liked it. oddly enough. the "Solution" is actually logical. but the one thing i wish i could have said to the
*COUGH COUGH SPOILER Catalyst at the end is that Chaos is inevitable. none of your "Solutions" would prevent life from continuing or the galaxy to be a bad place. we just need to coexist and move on and NOT slaughter each other. The Quarians and Geth were a perfect example of that. COUGH COUGH**
I'm done.
I won't worry, the ending was fine by me. Life goes on. That was the mission and I completed it. Great effing game.
and i actually liked it. oddly enough. the "Solution" is actually logical. but the one thing i wish i could have said to the
*COUGH COUGH SPOILER Catalyst at the end is that Chaos is inevitable. none of your "Solutions" would prevent life from continuing or the galaxy to be a bad place. we just need to coexist and move on and NOT slaughter each other. The Quarians and Geth were a perfect example of that. COUGH COUGH**
I'm done.
I won't worry, the ending was fine by me. Life goes on. That was the mission and I completed it. Great effing game.
I think they just tried to get too crazy with the ending and probably ended up writing themselves into a corner with the whole child-god final choice thing and ended up with the pallete swap endings. It's only a small part of the game though.
The cutscene of the start of the final battle on earth is now my new definition of "epic space battle".
The showdown with the illusive man was totally boss.
Every other story arc along with the gameplay was a total blast and that 30 hours (not even including multiplayer) I played isn't defined by that 10 minutes. It's an important 10 minutes, but not the whole game. It's still a 10/10 GOTY for me and most critics. Deal with it.
The cutscene of the start of the final battle on earth is now my new definition of "epic space battle".
The showdown with the illusive man was totally boss.
Every other story arc along with the gameplay was a total blast and that 30 hours (not even including multiplayer) I played isn't defined by that 10 minutes. It's an important 10 minutes, but not the whole game. It's still a 10/10 GOTY for me and most critics. Deal with it.
Given the fact that they have to keep track of loads of choices (although most side quests not so much) put the writers in a difficult position trying to cope with them all. You'll notice that even some major choices don't even matter from ME1 to ME2 and ME2 to ME3. The Rachni is almost completely ignored even if you do kill the last queen in existance. It tends to be more cameo and references rather then actual impact most of the time. Picking Udina wouldn't matter since he becomes a Citadel Concuiler regardless and is then shot no matter what.
I'm surprised hardly anyone is complaining about THAT. Also, no playable spaceship battles?! FUUUUUUUUU!
I'm surprised hardly anyone is complaining about THAT. Also, no playable spaceship battles?! FUUUUUUUUU!
What. Is. The Point. Then. Thanks for not clarifying, random forumer.TsunamiWombat said:
Elaboration.
That's quite a layer of Shitshine you've sprayed on a turd of a plot point.
Organics weren't going to cause some sort of apocalyptic disruption of the natural order, thus needing the Reapers to destroy them: in the words of the child AI, organics were being destroyed because they would inevitably create a synthetic race that would be their undoing. In other words...
No shit, Sherlock. That was a theme because Shepard and, by effect, the player, was breaking those cycles. The only time that there's real reason to believe that history will repeat itself with the krogan is if your choices led you to that point, specifically if Wreav is in charge and especially if Eve is dead. The cycle only repeats if you let it. Hell, in ME1, you had the option of killing the last rachni queen, effectively destroying their entire species.
Actually, that wouldn't make sense. As a man who despises DLC as much as you do, I doubt you got the Prothean squadmate, so you probably don't know the tidbits of backstory he provides.
In short, the downfall of the Prothean Empire was in their uniformity. Every race that composed the empire fought as a Prothean, not as whatever race they were. Crippling overspecialization, if you're a troper. As a result, Javik (the Prothean squadmate) actually thinks the races of the ME era have a chance against the Reapers because they traded the total stability via uniformity for moderate stability with diversity.
So with that in mind, no, it wouldn't have made sense for it to end that way. If this were the story of the Prothean Empire, it might've made sense, because for all their power and knowledge, they still lost against the Reapers because they simply couldn't adapt once the Reapers knew how to fight them.
Which is what virtually everyone assumes with the given ending. Because of how horrifically shortsighted blowing up the mass relays is and all.
Wow. I'm surprised you're being this presumptuous after your old Mailbag Showdown made it clear that you regard presumptuous people as, quote, "dickhead
That's a horrible idea. Fans are upset because the ending was terrible on levels deeper than thought possible from Bioware. Providing an epilogue that shows how everyone dealt with the horrific ending is like comforting someone with a horrific disease by telling them how they originally acquired said disease. Their organs are still shutting down, but hey, at least they know unrelated facts pertaining to their specific case. That makes it better, right?
Oh, God. Please, don't do this, Yahtzee. I know you like the whole 'games are art' thing, but I see where this is going. I can already smell the horrible, self-righteous odor of the term 'bad precedent.'
GODDAMNIT
I'm guessing you never actually looked at the "Shepard was indoctrinated" theory yet?
Check it out. It would provide more than enough of a window to freely change the ending without outright retconning stuff.
Oh, the beloved slippery slope argument. "If Bioware changes the Mass Effect ending, soon no game will have a solid ending! And same-sex marriage will lead to human-dog marriages! And women's suffrage will lead to hamster suffrage!"
I can already see this being added to the 'Dethroning Moment of Suck' trope page for ZP. I've been a fan since your Darkness demo days, but this was a misstep for you. For a critic who prides himself on reviewing for the average gamer, you're not reading the direction the wind's blowing very well.
It probably doesn't help that you clearly didn't like the series very much, and now you're mounting a multi-story high horse to call everyone who was very much invested in the series and outraged by the conclusion a "cockhead." I could understand if you didn't see what all the fuss was about. But frankly, it's a bit tough to accept your attempts to break down the major thematic elements of the story while you simultaneously remind us that you kitted your Shepard out with hot pink armor and a handlebar mustache and named him 'Titty.'
You're more than eloquent enough to convince us that you're knowledgeable in the area. But when you're obviously not taking the thing seriously, it pretty much cripples your credibility and makes the insults you sling out seem like a particularly easily-hated flavor of ignorant.
Sigh...Okay, I am going to completely explain the retardedness that is the "synthetics created to kill organics to prevent synthetics from killing organics" thing. Ready?
The Reapers were created, not to kill advanced organic life, but to ascend it to the singularity of form that the Reapers are. This is done to stop the creation of synthetic life that will wipe out all organic life, from complex animals to simple bacterium, to even strings of amino acids and proteins. They view Reaper-fication as a gift. They don't view the deaths of trillions as a loss, because they go into the manufacture of what they view as a perfect being.
Sure, it's still bat-shit insane, but from a cold logic standpoint, it makes a weird sense.
The Reapers were created, not to kill advanced organic life, but to ascend it to the singularity of form that the Reapers are. This is done to stop the creation of synthetic life that will wipe out all organic life, from complex animals to simple bacterium, to even strings of amino acids and proteins. They view Reaper-fication as a gift. They don't view the deaths of trillions as a loss, because they go into the manufacture of what they view as a perfect being.
Sure, it's still bat-shit insane, but from a cold logic standpoint, it makes a weird sense.
Son, what we have here is a bona-fide Big Lipped Alligator Moment.Seventh Actuality said:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BigLippedAlligatorMoment
I need to stop browsing tvtropes.
Except not really, especially when you have the Quarians and the Geth fighting side-by side right outside the fucking window, not to mention the whole EDI/Joker thing.wintercoat said:
Not only that, but ever since the first mass effect EVERY time you have had contact with a reaper they've always said "You can't possibly comprehend our goals and designs!" And yet their motivations are pretty damn easy to understand. Even if they are incredibly RETARDED reasons.
Sounds to me like you were tired of Yahtzees Disingenuous Assertions, am I right?Char-Nobyl said:
Also, I think now that you have, in my eyes, squarely put Yahtzee in his place, you must become the new Yahtzee. It's like the Flying Dutchman thing from that Pirate movie with Johnny Depp.
