Mass Effect 3: The movement

[The Wooster]

Whatever your feelings on the ending and some the pressure to change it, accusing people who don't share your opinion of either not understanding it or being corrupt is intellectually dishonest.

Suggesting that people making blatant strawman arguments are "not understanding" is the polite response, since the alternative (and probable reality) is that they're deliberately mischaracterizing the discussion - which, BTW, is intellectually dishonest.

If media figures who haven't even played the game are going to go around leveling ad hominem attacks on behalf of their sponsors, they're inviting criticism. Frankly, accusing games journalism of corruption is kind of like accusing lobbyists of the same - isn't it essentially their job description? Very few sites even pretend to avoid conflicts of interest.

So, just to get this straight, you're calling me corrupt? That's a very poor way to start a conversation.

Well this could have gone better. Good comic by the way.

Mind if I as 2 questions?

Do you think BioWare is putting their artistic vision (or whatever you call it) at risk with what they plan to do, by which I mean keep the ending the same, but adding on additional content after the end to explain it and give some more closure?

I get what people say about just changing the ending just because the people playing the game didn't like it, because that would be very very very very bad. However, I also get what people say about how the ending isn't just disliked because it's bad, but also because it doesn't make sense and gives no sense of closure (good or bad).

So, 3rd question (Its kind of a rewrite of 2). Do you think keeping the ending, but adding to it is an acceptable option?

Question 1:

I think it's a complex issue. Qualifying "artistic vision" when you're dealing with a team of people working under the yoke of a corporation known for editorial interference is a tricky proposition. As a writer, I find the idea of any kind of populist movement that tries to pressure creators into changing their work inherently distasteful, no matter how much I might agree that those changes would make the work better. That strikes me as fans overstepping the boundary between creator/audience, which inspires a kind of reflexive "No. Fuck you." I said some fairly stupid shit, [https://twitter.com/#!/the_moviebob/statuses/182566321035292674]on the topic - shit I would later regret. I think a lot of journalists reacted the same way.

After considering the issue, I'm a bit more moderate, but still convinced this whole issue will encourage other developers to experiment less when it comes to narrative. They'll take the safe option rather than risk fan outrage. That, to me, seems like a step toward the heavy duty focus testing of Hollywood films.

Legally, I don't think the movement has a leg to stand on. "Closure" is a difficult term to define in a court of law and creator commentary, particularly from a writer who doesn't have full control of the project, is not advertising. If it was, we would have burned Molyneux at the stake by now.

That being said I'm immensely proud of gamers for actually getting up of their arses and doing something about a problem rather than just whining about it. The internet is littered with the the carcasses of controversies and outrages that inspired nothing but a bout of belly aching and the occasional worthless boycott. The fact they're standing up for what they believe in is still commendable, even if I don't agree.

Question 2

Perhaps.

I think the biggest problem with the ME endings was their brevity. The actual core conceit: Reapers harvest advanced lifeforms so younger ones can have a chance at life, and the destruction of the mass relays, are both solid concepts that could, with the right amount of care, have made for an awesome ending. I think by expanding on these concepts, BioWare could potentially answer most of the criticism of the endings. Whether it would satisfy fans is a different question.

Lore: The thing about Sci-fi "lore" is that it's inherently quite mutable due to the nature of technology. With a little bit of exposition you can generally explain just about anything. I find it hilarious that people complain about "space magic" in ME3 when, in the previous game, Shepard literally came back from the dead after falling from orbit. Of course, in ME2, the game actually explained to the player how the Lazarus project worked and made it seem almost plausible. After twenty minutes or so, players were ready and willing to accept their freshly-revived ChristShep as consistent with the lore. By actually explaining what the hell was going on rather than trying to pull and Arthur C. Clark, the original endings could have avoided coming into conflict with the lore.

Same goes for the logical gaps and the lack of closure. Show why Joker was flying through the Mass Relay. Show what happened to the various fleets on Earth, did they escape? (currently I'm just assuming the Krogan eat everybody)

The only two changes I'd make to the endings themselves (as opposed to simply adding more detail) are a: Have Shepard question the starfuck's assertions. He doesn't have to win the argument, but him staying quiet was out of character. B: Some kind of fight with Harbinger. Maybe have him fight Shepard, then self destruct, leaving Shep all crippled.

 

[BreakfastMan]

-They were promised player choices through the series impacting the end, which they didn't get.

Actually, the did. Quite a bit. Just not in a way that was immediately obvious. The war assets you acquire (you know, the choices the player makes throughout the series) affects which endings you can select and what happens in those endings. Source: http://www.ign.com/wikis/mass-effect-3/Endings

NOTE: Your other complaint is completely understandable though. Without IT, the ending has more holes than a strainer.

 

[-Dragmire-]

So what happens if you'd prefer more of a downer ending? They bring out the knives?

Also, is that Erin in panel 4? Her stripes vanished... SHE'S A WITCH!

A WITCH! A WITCH! BUUUUUURRRRN HER!!

Burn her? Don't you people know ANYTHING. To prove one is a Witch you must FIRST, weigh her against a duck. Then you can burn her.

As for that "strategy" at least once they get an actual load in the face they'll be a physical representation of how they've been feeling since they've beat ME3.

but where are we going to get the extra witches for the kindling?? and could we not build a bridge out of her instead?

There's already enough wood there as is...

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

I think the biggest problem with the ME endings was their brevity. The actual core conceit: Reapers harvest advanced lifeforms so younger ones can have a chance at life, and the destruction of the mass relays, are both solid concepts that could, with the right amount of care, have made for an awesome ending. I think by expanding on these concepts, BioWare could potentially answer most of the criticism of the endings. Whether it would satisfy fans is a different question.

No chance it will now. Bioware and EA spent too much time being dick-splinters about it and pretending there was nothing wrong with the ending then pretending they misunderstood exactly what the nature of the complaints were (intellectual dishonesty on both sides of this argument). The fact that EA actively court controvery for free publicity and that Bioware's PR seemingly can't even take a piss without one of Drs Greg and Ray to hold their dicks doesn't help.

That said, you're pretty much right. If they'd bothered to expand and explain... well, pretty much the entire last 10 minutes of the game instead of going "Here's a bunch of new stuff. No, can't explain. Have fun... PS You are dead." I think half the rage would never have happened.

Personally I'm just glad my Shepherd didn't have to suffer such ignomy. He's forever stuck at the end of ME2 because fuck Origin...

 

[Dr Jones]

So what happens if you'd prefer more of a downer ending? They bring out the knives?

Also, is that Erin in panel 4? Her stripes vanished... SHE'S A WITCH!

A WITCH! A WITCH! BUUUUUURRRRN HER!!

Burn her? Don't you people know ANYTHING. To prove one is a Witch you must FIRST, weigh her against a duck. Then you can burn her.

Oh please! To tell a witch from a normal person: put it in water. If it floats it is indeed a witch. If she drowns then she was a genuine laddeh.
EDIT: POST COUNT 666! I SHALL POST NEVERMORE!

 

[Elementary - Dear Watson]

Also, is that Erin in panel 4? Her stripes vanished... SHE'S A WITCH!

If you're getting nit-picky, don't forget that her panties went from being plain white to being green with stripes in the previous comic.

But that actually had a reason... the hoodie is unexplained... I'd get it if it was different in every pannel, but it only changes in one!

 

[tychothereborn]

lol the is the greatest comic strip i have read in a long time XD

 

[TaboriHK]

Great, another person totally missing the point about why people are complaining.

Not because ending was sad.

It was because they shat on the lore, technology, characters we came to like over the past 3 games, their actions and filled the ending with plot holes and inconsistencies.

This. This and this and this again and again and again, because no one paid to have an opinion on this subject seems to want to actually understand it.

 

[goliath6711]

Show me the numerous examples of the overwhelming majority of gaming journalists that are unfairly attacking those that are dissatisfied with the Mass Effect 3 ending because I don't see it.

So, just to get this straight, you're calling me corrupt? That's a very poor way to start a conversation.

You infer that fans will perform blowjobs for Bioware employees for a 'happy ending' (which isn't really the argument being presented by most, it more has to do with the ending being terribly written and lacking complex choice) and then expect a positive response back? If you've just openly mocked and deliberately misinterpreted a group of people's opinion don't expect them to be nice in response.

To the comic: Clearly the fanboy is meant to be egoraptor, would've been an ok satire on the whole 'Retake ME3' movement if it wasn't just constructed of internet strawmen.

Just remember said group you are defending DONATED money to a CHARITY. Then DEMANDED said money back. I know its not everyone in the group but seriously if you want to go and defend a part of the group that was actually good you also have to remember that another part of the group is bad.

Where did I defend their actions in my statement? I didn't. Read the statement rather then what you want to hear. What I brought up was the complete hypocrisy of both expecting a civil debate after such a 'witty satire' and deliberately misinterpreting the arguments of a group, then calling them out for doing the same thing. I'm just highlighting the inconsistency of the whole thing, if you're going to present either side as some strawman that you can easily attack you can't then criticize them for doing the same thing. Your charity comment has nothing to do with what I actually said and completely misses the point.

You're right, you didn't defend them. You also didn't denounce them either. So what are we supposed to think?

The problem is, anytime a bunch of disgruntled fans become a "movement", it's smack ready for parody and satire. I see a lot of what's being done ripe for such skewering.

I agree with the comment. I have seen people call Angry Joe, the Forbes bloggers (who aren't even staff, they are freelancers), and a few others "Paragons of Journalistic Integrity", while those that are on Bioware's side are "shills", "corrupt", etc. A few have even attacked one of the Forbes people now that he said "if they continue to complain, they deserve the label of entitled and whiners". Yet I've seen intelligent commentary here on the Escapist, and elsewhere, and it gets ignored. I see clear cases of confirmation Bias.

Once "movements" start, they become wrapped up in politics and it's more about the protest and the movement's identity than the actual goals. The fact that the protests feel the need to find any site on the Internet and (if they agree) praise them or (if they disagree) comment bomb them, shows that's there's a massive oversensitiveness on the parts of the protesters.

Which is ripe for skewering, as done here.

It's sad when the answers are presented so clearly like this and there are still people that refuse to see them. Nobody really cares about the fact that there are people that are dissatisfied with the ending. It's how you express that dissatisfaction is where the trouble lies in. When I first started reading how people couldn't stand the ending, I just dismissed it as "haters gonna hate". There were a large number of haters, but hey, I can just ignore them. Even when it began, I just looked at the whole Retake Mass Effect thing as "Wow, okay, they wanna gather up in one place to whine about this. Fine. This has got to be the crux of it. This has officially gotten to 'Early Cole McGrath in Infamous 2' level. You can't go any further without turning yourselves into complete jerks". Then I read about the Federal Trade Commission complaint. And that was the moment when I officially turned. That and the accusations of "false advertising" were the points where I didn't care about whether you liked or hated the endings. The fact that you're now trying to bring a Federal Government Agency in on this matter and trying to insinuate that this personal dissatisfaction equates to a law being broken. And you're doing this the name of Mass Effect fans? Let's get something straight. I am a Mass Effect fan, and I am NOT going to stand by and let people do completely overreactive shit in MY name whether I agree with the basic reasoning behind it or not.

Here's an example. I hate the new Tomb Raider game that's coming out. I personally feel that all of the factors that led to its creation feel like a slap to at least my face for being a fan of the Tomb Raider games that came before it (especially the last three). There has been nothing about the gameplay footage or trailers that I've seen that makes me want to play it in the slightest. Therefore I have decided that I will not buy it at any point no matter how far the price drops. I won't even download a free demo if there was to be one. But you know what else I'm not going to do? I'm not going to peruse all the gaming news sites and Tomb Raider/Lara Croft fan sites where the majority are eagerly awaiting this game and call them "morons" and "sellouts" because of this. I'm not going to hound Crystal Dynamics or Square Enix constantly to force them to change it back. And I'm sure as hell not going to try and look for some vague legal loophole to bring in any Government or Law Enforcement Agency to force them to change it either.

Because at the end of the day, what do you think deserves the Federal Government's attention more? A company that presents a game whose endings you didn't like and are presented a different way than what you believe they told you? Or a free online service that claims to keep the credit information of its customers (which is needed to purchase products through that service) private only to have someone hack that service and make that information public and then shut down the service and wait weeks later to tell those customers why?


P.S.: I made the mistake of buying the Broken Steel dlc for Fallout 3 and decided to delete that from my hard drive.

 

[Canadamus Prime]

I'd much rather they go with the suicide. Not the suicide foot rubs, just the suicide.

 

[SycoMantis91]

Ok. So I hate the ending. Not because it's "sad", but because it's just plain nonsensical within the Mass Effect Universe. It shits on so much lore, has so many potholes, and worst of all, it's stupid. Just plain stupid. I could deal with everything else if it was a cool and engaging ending that shit out lore like week-old Taco Bell, but it's just bad in general, and it'd be bad no matter what game it was tacked on to. Without even going into calling bullshit on "16 wildly varying endings" or that there's no discernible difference no matter what you do within all 3 games.

That being said, I'm not offended by this comic. In fact, I was rather amused.

 

[The Random One]

Hey, you mispelled "taking back money which would have gone to charity when they found out it was not going to go to a giant game developer, thus causing a major charity to appear to be a scam in the eyes of the online merchants responsible for their finantial transations".

How were you going to fit all that into a word balloon? This ain't Subnormality, you know!

 

[Imp_Emissary]

Well this could have gone better. Good comic by the way.

Mind if I as 2 questions?

Do you think BioWare is putting their artistic vision (or whatever you call it) at risk with what they plan to do, by which I mean keep the ending the same, but adding on additional content after the end to explain it and give some more closure?

I get what people say about just changing the ending just because the people playing the game didn't like it, because that would be very very very very bad. However, I also get what people say about how the ending isn't just disliked because it's bad, but also because it doesn't make sense and gives no sense of closure (good or bad).

So, 3rd question (Its kind of a rewrite of 2). Do you think keeping the ending, but adding to it is an acceptable option?

Question 1:

I think it's a complex issue. Qualifying "artistic vision" when you're dealing with a team of people working under the yoke of a corporation known for editorial interference is a tricky proposition. As a writer, I find the idea of any kind of populist movement that tries to pressure creators into changing their work inherently distasteful, no matter how much I might agree that those changes would make the work better. That strikes me as fans overstepping the boundary between creator/audience, which inspires a kind of reflexive "No. Fuck you." I said some fairly stupid shit, [https://twitter.com/#!/the_moviebob/statuses/182566321035292674]on the topic - shit I would later regret. I think a lot of journalists reacted the same way.

After considering the issue, I'm a bit more moderate, but still convinced this whole issue will encourage other developers to experiment less when it comes to narrative. They'll take the safe option rather than risk fan outrage. That, to me, seems like a step toward the heavy duty focus testing of Hollywood films.

Legally, I don't think the movement has a leg to stand on. "Closure" is a difficult term to define in a court of law and creator commentary, particularly from a writer who doesn't have full control of the project, is not advertising. If it was, we would have burned Molyneux at the stake by now.

That being said I'm immensely proud of gamers for actually getting up of their arses and doing something about a problem rather than just whining about it. The internet is littered with the the carcasses of controversies and outrages that inspired nothing but a bout of belly aching and the occasional worthless boycott. The fact they're standing up for what they believe in is still commendable, even if I don't agree.

Question 2

Perhaps.

I think the biggest problem with the ME endings was their brevity. The actual core conceit: Reapers harvest advanced lifeforms so younger ones can have a chance at life, and the destruction of the mass relays, are both solid concepts that could, with the right amount of care, have made for an awesome ending. I think by expanding on these concepts, BioWare could potentially answer most of the criticism of the endings. Whether it would satisfy fans is a different question.

Lore: The thing about Sci-fi "lore" is that it's inherently quite mutable due to the nature of technology. With a little bit of exposition you can generally explain just about anything. I find it hilarious that people complain about "space magic" in ME3 when, in the previous game, Shepard literally came back from the dead after falling from orbit. Of course, in ME2, the game actually explained to the player how the Lazarus project worked and made it seem almost plausible. After twenty minutes or so, players were ready and willing to accept their freshly-revived ChristShep as consistent with the lore. By actually explaining what the hell was going on rather than trying to pull and Arthur C. Clark, the original endings could have avoided coming into conflict with the lore.

Same goes for the logical gaps and the lack of closure. Show why Joker was flying through the Mass Relay. Show what happened to the various fleets on Earth, did they escape? (currently I'm just assuming the Krogan eat everybody)

The only two changes I'd make to the endings themselves (as opposed to simply adding more detail) are a: Have Shepard question the starfuck's assertions. He doesn't have to win the argument, but him staying quiet was out of character. B: Some kind of fight with Harbinger. Maybe have him fight Shepard, then self destruct, leaving Shep all crippled.

Crap. You're probably right. I hope the Krogan left the Quarians for last on the off chance they could build something to get out of Sol.
Hopefully, they explain how Shep's army got out before they all had to eat eachother. Hopefully. Or they could just ad a bit of dialogue after Shep's talk with the "StarFuck"(Much better name. To me at least.) where he/she tells her/his team (and maybe the fleets) to get out before they get stuck in Sol. It could be like in ME2 when he made his team get out of the Normandy ie. "I said get the Hell out of here!"
And if they can't give us one last round with Harbinger maybe have him start to spout one last bit of Reaper propaganda like, "This changes nothing Shepard. The cycle will...", and then he gets hit by the Magic Cupcake waves and blows up, or something.

Ah. Speculation is fun.

Yeah, it is not a easy question. But I guess we all just have to paly the waiting game for now, and pray for the best (or at least that Dragon Age 3 will be kept safe. Not safe as in not doing anything new, but safe from the bad ending monster hiding somewhere in the BioWare building.)

 

[BreakfastMan]

It's sad when the answers are presented so clearly like this and there are still people that refuse to see them. Nobody really cares about the fact that there are people that are dissatisfied with the ending. It's how you express that dissatisfaction is where the trouble lies in. When I first started reading how people couldn't stand the ending, I just dismissed it as "haters gonna hate". There were a large number of haters, but hey, I can just ignore them. Even when it began, I just looked at the whole Retake Mass Effect thing as "Wow, okay, they wanna gather up in one place to whine about this. Fine. This has got to be the crux of it. This has officially gotten to 'Early Cole McGrath in Infamous 2' level. You can't go any further without turning yourselves into complete jerks". Then I read about the Federal Trade Commission complaint. And that was the moment when I officially turned. That and the accusations of "false advertising" were the points where I didn't care about whether you liked or hated the endings. The fact that you're now trying to bring a Federal Government Agency in on this matter and trying to insinuate that this personal dissatisfaction equates to a law being broken. And you're doing this the name of Mass Effect fans? Let's get something straight. I am a Mass Effect fan, and I am NOT going to stand by and let people do completely overreactive shit in MY name whether I agree with the basic reasoning behind it or not.

Here's an example. I hate the new Tomb Raider game that's coming out. I personally feel that all of the factors that led to its creation feel like a slap to at least my face for being a fan of the Tomb Raider games that came before it (especially the last three). There has been nothing about the gameplay footage or trailers that I've seen that makes me want to play it in the slightest. Therefore I have decided that I will not buy it at any point no matter how far the price drops. I won't even download a free demo if there was to be one. But you know what else I'm not going to do? I'm not going to peruse all the gaming news sites and Tomb Raider/Lara Croft fan sites where the majority are eagerly awaiting this game and call them "morons" and "sellouts" because of this. I'm not going to hound Crystal Dynamics or Square Enix constantly to force them to change it back. And I'm sure as hell not going to try and look for some vague legal loophole to bring in any Government or Law Enforcement Agency to force them to change it either.

Because at the end of the day, what do you think deserves the Federal Government's attention more? A company that presents a game whose endings you didn't like and are presented a different way than what you believe they told you? Or a free online service that claims to keep the credit information of its customers (which is needed to purchase products through that service) private only to have someone hack that service and make that information public and then shut down the service and wait weeks later to tell those customers why?

Well said, well said indeed. I agree with pretty much everything you said (except for the new Tomb Raider thing. I think it looks pretty good, but if you just replace Tomb Raider with Max Payne 3, it would mirror myself perfectly). Just remember kids, if you don't think you should complain to bioware you are being a bad consumer and telling people to be slavishly follow corporations!

 

[Saltyk]

That is officially the best protest ever.

That's a very poor way to start a conversation.

What kind of respectful and mature discussion were you expecting to start with "Happy Ending for a Happy Ending"?

Yes, because me making a joke about the fact the Retake ME protests have been bizarrely nice is the same as you saying I have no ethical standards.

To misquote Oscar Wilde:

Satirists gonna' satire.

My god. It's almost like you think you're writing a webcomic. One that tells jokes. You obviously don't understand the meaning of this comic like the fans do. You should change the ending, now.

Hey now!

First. Very funny. Well done friend.

2nd. To hell with that! The ending (of the comic) was great. The written bit after didn't seem to really be connected to the comic, but still making a good point.


3rd. It has been at least a month now. Is the Chevy Sonic really still all-new?

First: Thanks I try. /bow

Second: I agree. I personally enjoyed it.

Third: Yeah, these current captchas don't sit well with me either.

OT: Since when did Critical Miss comics become these huge serious discussions? It seems to happen every time. Next week the comic will feature someone literally walking into a bar and that will start a discussion about the plight of blind people and how the comic makes fun of them.

 

[Zen Toombs]

Retake Mass Effect, and the people peripherally attached to it, seem to have a modus operandi of deifying journalists and publications that agree with their point, and demonizing those that don't. Whatever your feelings on the ending and some the pressure to change it, accusing people who don't share your opinion of either not understanding it or being corrupt is intellectually dishonest.

To be fair, calling us entitled, whiny crybabies who should just get over it isn't exactly what I expect from journalists. I'm not saying they're corrupt or that they 'don't get it' (although one or two of them really don't) but they fail to look at both sides, which to me is a fundamental failing of journalistic integrity. They act like we're attacking or outright destroying art, when shouldn't they want to see games being the best they can, which would include reevaluating one's work with an aim to improve it?

I agree with what you're saying here, only I will add that at least some gaming journalists are corrupt and in bed with/in the pockets of game publishers.

"Happy Endings for a Happy Ending!" xD

L

O

Motherfucking

L

I enjoyed that as well.

 

[RJ 17]

So what happens if you'd prefer more of a downer ending? They bring out the knives?

Also, is that Erin in panel 4? Her stripes vanished... SHE'S A WITCH!

Also, is that Erin in panel 4? Her stripes vanished... SHE'S A WITCH!

If you're getting nit-picky, don't forget that her panties went from being plain white to being green with stripes in the previous comic.

But that actually had a reason... the hoodie is unexplained... I'd get it if it was different in every pannel, but it only changes in one!

Actually if you look at panel 3, you see a person in a plain hoody standing next to the guy. If there's any glitch, it's that the speech bubble for Erin's line is pointing at that guy in the plain hoody.

But again, no need to get nit-picky.

 

[RhombusHatesYou]

Intellectually dishonest? Is that a euphamism for stupid?

No, intellectual dishonesty is when you knowingly make an intellectual point/argument on false or distorted information.

 

[Imp_Emissary]

That is officially the best protest ever.

That's a very poor way to start a conversation.

What kind of respectful and mature discussion were you expecting to start with "Happy Ending for a Happy Ending"?

Yes, because me making a joke about the fact the Retake ME protests have been bizarrely nice is the same as you saying I have no ethical standards.

To misquote Oscar Wilde:

Satirists gonna' satire.

My god. It's almost like you think you're writing a webcomic. One that tells jokes. You obviously don't understand the meaning of this comic like the fans do. You should change the ending, now.

Hey now!

First. Very funny. Well done friend.

2nd. To hell with that! The ending (of the comic) was great. The written bit after didn't seem to really be connected to the comic, but still making a good point.


3rd. It has been at least a month now. Is the Chevy Sonic really still all-new?

First: Thanks I try. /bow

Second: I agree. I personally enjoyed it.

Third: Yeah, these current captchas don't sit well with me either.

OT: Since when did Critical Miss comics become these huge serious discussions? It seems to happen every time. Next week the comic will feature someone literally walking into a bar and that will start a discussion about the plight of blind people and how the comic makes fun of them.

Well, people sometimes make mountains out of ant hills. But it is hard not to sometimes, and this is one of those times. That and even though Grey isn't doing it in a very super no nonsense kind of way, Grey is talking about a topic that has many peoples emotions on the high. So even the most harmless little joke can and probably will set people off. Sometimes on both sides.

But, HEY NOW!.....It is not always a bad thing.