If Bioware's word is suspect because they are a company out to make money YOUR word is EQUALLY as a suspect because your a random person on the internet trying to start hate against Bioware.
The ironic thing is YOU ARE EXACTLY LIKE BIOWARE just on the exact opposite side of the spectrum and your evidence is just as unjustifiable as theirs.
You base that statement on nothing but some leaked story that no-one can say will be in both version of the game or not since so far no-one has played it.
You do know that the game was leaked in an xbox live screw up and since then the game has been playable, with a few subtitles and facial textures missing, right?
Because thats what happened, and a bunch of people have played it.
OK, you're clearly not reading my post. I KNOW that the story has been leaked. I have never denied it. All I am saying is that Bioware claims that the important story element connected to the character are intact, but you wont have him in your squad or get the sidequests. Neither of your links prove that wrong. Someone played the beta, sure, but a beta is not the same as the finished game. You got nothing that states the story will be incomplete so you are not being reasonable. It doesn't get any more simple than that.
So, we ignore the leaks because Bioware swore he wouldnt be central to the story, honest. Sounds alright. Not like Bioware has been untruthful before, right?
That is not what I have been saying. What I have been saying is that Bioware says that the important parts of the story containing him will be present, but you wont have him in your squad. Really, I wont bother to go on with this because I am repeating the same thing over and over here, but you don't seem to bother to read what I am saying.
A quote where Bioware says the story wont be incomplete has been posted in this thread. That is why I ignored you the last time you quoted me. Now I can link you to this thread, but I am certain you know how to find it by now.
That's a different claim than "Prothean character included, playability not".
I want something a little more tangible than some tosser going off about how complete the game is. You are claiming the only difference of the DLC is the playability. Is there confirmation of that? For as much as know, the prothean was hacked out only for your blessed DLC.
There was a quote from Bioware and that is far more tangible than your statement based on nothing? Based on brief knowledge about the final game? Based on leaked information? I don't want to go on discussing this because at least I am willing to admit that I don't have the facts here. You don't have them either, but I don't think you will ever admit it. Bioware claims that the story is complete. I claim nothing. I know nothing. You know nothing. Thus the most tangible source is Bioware and we'll have to wait to find out of it's true or not.
I know "nothing". So all that footage, and information about the game is just total utter nonsense then, right? I mean the EA game trend of hacking off games for dlc's means nothing right? You are delusional. How much information do I have to see before it's "okay" to make a conclusion? Cause I'm seeing quite alot of it and its bad.
Bioware also claiming shit but then it turning out to be an utter lie means nothing right? I mean theres a first time for everythign, right,? right!?@? NO!
A company only goal is to profit: their word is HIGHLY suspect, and all the evidence only supports this.
You have seen footage, you may even have played the demo. You know nothing of what we are talking about here. You don't know what parts of the story they will chop off, or if they will give us a complete story. It is quite possible they are lying when they say we will get the full story, read my post where I said that I know nothing if this is true or not. Also note my wording. I am not saying that we will get the full game. I am saying Bioware claims. I use the word claim because I can't prove we actually get it. Can you prove that Bioware is lying? Do you know more than the developers of the game? All I am saying is that we should complain if they actually chop out important story, but as of today we can't say for sure. I also repeat that if they do cut away story then they deserve the hate they are getting.
Okay, so this is the new thing to do then? Right. I'll make the next Batman movie (Move over, Mr. Nolan, I can take it from here). That'll be the price of a regular movie ticket. But see, while I don't want to detract from the core experience, I will be charging an extra 20 bucks for all the scenes with Batman in them. Sounds lovely, doesn't it?
Okay, so this is the new thing to do then? Right. I'll make the next Batman movie (Move over, Mr. Nolan, I can take it from here). That'll be the price of a regular movie ticket. But see, while I don't want to detract from the core experience, I will be charging an extra 20 bucks for all the scenes with Batman in them. Sounds lovely, doesn't it?
Okay, so this is the new thing to do then? Right. I'll make the next Batman movie (Move over, Mr. Nolan, I can take it from here). That'll be the price of a regular movie ticket. But see, while I don't want to detract from the core experience, I will be charging an extra 20 bucks for all the scenes with Batman in them. Sounds lovely, doesn't it?
Yeah, I know, I just got frustrated and felt the need to mock the concept. But hey, who's gonna stop BioWare from going 'oh by the way guys, Tali, Garrus and Wrex will be DLC for ME3 too. You can complete the game without them, they're not directly integral to the plot after all, but long-time fans will get a chance to see them again for only 29.99$. Plus you get a new gun!'
That might sound unrealistic, but I see this whole thing as a dangerously slippery slope.
Yeah, I know, I just got frustrated and felt the need to mock the concept. But hey, who's gonna stop BioWare from going 'oh by the way guys, Tali, Garrus and Wrex will be DLC for ME3 too. You can complete the game without them, they're not directly integral to the plot after all, but long-time fans will get a chance to see them again for only 29.99$. Plus you get a new gun!'
That might sound unrealistic, but I see this whole thing as a dangerously slippery slope.
I don't even know why it's a slippery slope. It just means they're charging more for what you consider to be "the complete game". And then you just decide if X dollars is too much for "the complete game", and if it is, you wait for the price to come down.
Seriously, slippery slope? EA was charging us $1 for a new hat in Sims like 10 years ago. You are at the BOTTOM OF THE SLOPE ALREADY.
Yeah, I know, I just got frustrated and felt the need to mock the concept. But hey, who's gonna stop BioWare from going 'oh by the way guys, Tali, Garrus and Wrex will be DLC for ME3 too. You can complete the game without them, they're not directly integral to the plot after all, but long-time fans will get a chance to see them again for only 29.99$. Plus you get a new gun!'
That might sound unrealistic, but I see this whole thing as a dangerously slippery slope.
Because despite the constant demonization that people throw onto Bioware they have yet to exclude anything from their games and sell it as DLC that made said game incomplete.
Despite the fact that NWN1, ME1, DA1, DA2, and ME2 ALL had DLC each one of them was ALSO a full game without them.
The slippery-slope fallacy that "they did it THIS far means THEY PROBABLY WILL GO FARTHER" is BS, it is in this argument and every other argument it has ever been used in. If you have to play the slippery slope card then your argument is fundamentally broken.
Bioware's track-record of not cutting out important things speaks for itself. They aren't this demonic Illuminati like origination whose sole drive is to scam you out of money, they aren't angels who do things solely out of the good of their hearts either, but they dont have the malicious intent people try to throw on them.
Okay, so this is the new thing to do then? Right. I'll make the next Batman movie (Move over, Mr. Nolan, I can take it from here). That'll be the price of a regular movie ticket. But see, while I don't want to detract from the core experience, I will be charging an extra 20 bucks for all the scenes with Batman in them. Sounds lovely, doesn't it?
Yeah, I know, I just got frustrated and felt the need to mock the concept. But hey, who's gonna stop BioWare from going 'oh by the way guys, Tali, Garrus and Wrex will be DLC for ME3 too. You can complete the game without them, they're not directly integral to the plot after all, but long-time fans will get a chance to see them again for only 29.99$. Plus you get a new gun!'
That might sound unrealistic, but I see this whole thing as a dangerously slippery slope.
Oh come on now. It's just a Prothean. Here's the part where I'd go on about the plot significance this character could have. But no. He follows the same archetype of the super powerful/awesome/ancient guy who was put into stasis while his race was wiped out/lost/turned evil/etc. I honestly feel that he will be even less entertaining than Zaead.
But Shale was just a golem, the only significance they had was the Anvil, a Prothean is mysterious and is the only reason why Shepard is so special (he absorbed data from a Prothean device) EA kind of trapped themselves here where if they don't make the companion have significance, than the guys who got it will rage since it was a disappointment, and if they make it important, the guys who didn't get the Collecters edition will rage since something that important should be free
That means someone is endorsing a product for a fee while pretending they weren't paid at all.
But basically, what Loop Stricken said was, "you're new so your opinion doesn't matter".
you anger demonstrates that you fail to see the grand scheme of things. If you don't act immature and ***** about things like this , then the publisher will think it is ok and then will continue to find more things to screw us with.
You can see this everywhere. why did ww2 happen? because no one got the balls to slap Germany down while they were conquering the weaker nations.
I remember when games were 50 dollars, then cod posted at 60 dollars and now lookie lookie , every freaking publisher is starting to post at 60 dollars what a shocker.
I remember when dlc was free and real content were expansion packs with legit amounts of content , but then people started buying 15 dollar map packs and now look where we are.
I am hard pressed to remember the last real expansion pack to any of the the main stream games I play.
make no mistake , publishers are fundamentally EVIL. If you give them ground on anything they will take it and then try to claim more. I don't even think they have a conscience. To them the only thing that matters is the bottom line and whether or not that line is higher than last year.
Well I for one am happy that this premium dlc content will be available for purchase by those who do not have the Collector's Edition. If it's anything like the Kasumi dlc from ME2, then it won't be essential and won't have any real impact on the single player experience as a whole and will purely be for just spending extra time with new content for a game that you enjoy. I didn't buy any of the dlc for DA2 because I didn't enjoy the game enough, but I purchased everything for ME2 (apart from the character skins) because I really enjoyed the game. Surely that's the whole point of dlc? I suppose it depends on how you view dlc. I never feel like I've been cheated out of content through dlc because it's impossible to quantify what constitutes a complete game and therefore a waste of my time to speculate as to whether or not game content has been held back from the vanilla release. Surely by the logic of the OP, any game that has extra downloadable content is incomplete?
Hmm... Twenty-four minutes of baseless ranty nerdrage? No thanks.
Think of Legion and Shale. Both fascinating characters, both sole representatives of their kind, both more or less ineffectual to the main plot. Delightfully enjoyable additions, seamlessly dispensable subtractions.
I will probably spend a good hour exploring this Prothean's background and sociology but I doubt it will leave me lost and confused in the time before I purchase it.
I can perfectly understand the feelings of everyone who is very angry about this, my first reaction was anger. But then I stopped and thought about it for a bit and there is a really important point that people seem to be forgetting. Unless I'm completely mistaken it was stated early that the collectors edition would contain an additional squadmate and a mission for them. Bioware has simply made it in the form of free DLC for those who bought the collector's edition and as a bonus made it available for the rest of us right off the bat. The other important point that has been mentioned before is that it was made during gold time, so it wasnt cutting into development time at all and couldn't be released as part of the full game anyway. SO if some of you would rather they had included it as part of the full game and had to wait another month for the game to come out. Personally I am perfectly happy to pay for the DLC. The main reason behind all of the anger against it is simply the stigma against day 1 DLC along with the importance of protheans to the ME universe.
Remember that thread saying 'post count is too important'?
Thanks for proving that there are still people shallow enough to disregard someone's opinion because of that.
lord Claincy Ffnord said:
I can perfectly understand the feelings of everyone who is very angry about this, my first reaction was anger. But then I stopped and thought about it for a bit and there is a really important point that people seem to be forgetting. Unless I'm completely mistaken it was stated early that the collectors edition would contain an additional squadmate and a mission for them. Bioware has simply made it in the form of free DLC for those who bought the collector's edition and as a bonus made it available for the rest of us right off the bat. The other important point that has been mentioned before is that it was made during gold time, so it wasnt cutting into development time at all and couldn't be released as part of the full game anyway. SO if some of you would rather they had included it as part of the full game and had to wait another month for the game to come out. Personally I am perfectly happy to pay for the DLC. The main reason behind all of the anger against it is simply the stigma against day 1 DLC along with the importance of protheans to the ME universe.
A very well thought out first post. Welcome to the escapist. I had hoped that your first quote would not of been of someone questioning your integrity. I apologise.
[HEADING=1]READ THIS IF YOU AREN'T AFRAID OF MASS EFFECT 3 SPOILERS![/HEADING]
Having read the spoilers in the leaked script (the actual proper leaked script, not the shockingly crappy draft) I can confirm that the arguments about the Prothean being super important and essential to the plot are false.
In the original draft, he was central to the story. However in the actual script of the game his role has been decreased dramatically, to the point that there is virtually no difference between a game that DOES have him and a game that DOESN'T. To put it simply he is no longer key to the plot, and the plot goes along perfectly well without him being in it at all.
The only thing that happens if you download him is you get an additional mission and then he's a squadmate, that's it. He has no vital intel or central conflict that the game would be lost without, just a minor mission that has little to no bearing on the actual story itself and after that he, like Zaeed and Kasumi before him, just exists on the ship with nothing more to say to you.
He is not 'removed' content, he is 'tacked on' content.
Hell, I'll give you a little fun fact about his DLC mission:
He can DIE, minutes into his recruitment mission. He basically wakes up, ragdolls a few Cerberus soldiers and then sees Shepard and Company, panics and Shepard has to convince him that he's not a threat, otherwise kill him.
Yeah that's a fitting treatment for a character who is apparently super duper mega important to the plot.
That's one of the benefits of being a poster on BSN, if you can wade through the creepiness, you find out new news about Mass Effect 3 faster. It also gives you perspective on what to be pissed off about and what to dismiss as 'nothing worth worrying about' and if you ask me, while Bioware are in the naughty stool for me for a lot relating to Mass Effect 3, this isn't one of them.
Bioware redesigning established female characters just to give them sex appeal? That's something to be pissed about. Bioware relying on gimmicks to market the game? That's something to be pissed about. Bioware adding an IGN reviewer to the cast in Mass Effect 3? Something to be pissed about (arguably). Bioware still not giving any info about whether or not they've given the approval to the Play Arts Kai line of action figures? Something to be pissed about (though I would be shocked if they didn't approve of them, they look great).
Bioware making a day one DLC be a bonus mission and squadmate that has no bearing on the game story whatsoever? Not something to be pissed about. If you want, you can be pissed that Bioware decided to add something to the story that should be important but turned it into a gimmick, or pissed that Bioware would make a dumb decision like adding a prothean to the plot in the first place (I think it's dumb anyway). All I'm saying is, do a little research first and know what should and shouldn't be hated on.
The Prothean points out the Crucible to Shepard, from the leaked scripts this is how they stop the reapers
Prothean: ...you found one of our beacons. You saw it happen... our destruction... our warnings... Why weren't they heeded? Why didn't you prepare for the Reapers, human?
Shepard: It's 'Commander'. And nobody could understand your warnings. The beacon nearly killed me!
Prothean: Then communication is still primitive in this cycle. You can't absorb knowledge as we did.
Liara: Shepard can.
Prothean: Then the extinction was delayed?
Shepard: We pieced together what we could - and used it to stop a Reaper invasion three years ago. Now we have your plans for the Crucible. We've started building it.
Prothean: 'Crucible'?
Liara: The weapon your people were working on. I'd hoped you could tell us how to finish it.
Prothean: So much has been lost. So much I don't know. I was a soldier, not a scientist. Skilled in one art: killing. When it was clear our war was lost, I was chosen to go forward to the next cycle.
Shepard: What was your mission?
Prothean: Among my people, there were...avatars of many traits: bravery, strength, cunning. A single exemplar for each.
Shepard: Which are you?
Prothean: The embodiment of vengeance. I am the anger of a dead people, demanding blood be spilled for the blood we lost. Only when the last Reaper has been destroyed will my purpose be fulfilled. I have no other reason to exist. Those who share my purpose become allies. Those who do not become casualties. Do you agree, Commander?
Shepard: I'd say you found an ally. The only goal we have on this ship is wiping the Reapers from existence.
Having read the dialogue you just showed me... no he doesn't. He doesn't point out the Crucible to Shepard. Liara and Shepard ask him about the Crucible, themselves having prior knowledge of it already. He then says 'Crucible?' in confusion, having clearly never heard of it. Shepard and Liara then reveal that they know the Crucible's purpose and have already started working on it and ask the Prothean if he knows how to complete it and the Prothean essentially says:
"It's been too long and I'm just a warrior, I have no idea how this works."
He doesn't point out the Crucible, Shepard and Co already know it exists. He also offers no plot important insight into the Crucible, just glib remarks about vengeance and lost time.
What we can confirm from this is that the existence and plans about the Crucible are done independant of the Prothean and the Prothean adds nothing to it afterwards.
Understand that going by the context of the dialogue, when they say 'your plans for the crucible' they mean as in 'your people's plans' and not 'your plans' specifically.
I'm sorry if I've offended but I'm still really not seeing him be that important.
I remember when games were 50 dollars, then cod posted at 60 dollars and now lookie lookie , every freaking publisher is starting to post at 60 dollars what a shocker.
Oh yeah? I've been gaming for 30 years. I remember when a new RPG was $69-89. I remember only being able to buy 1-2 titles a year, if that. I remember when they'd release a "voice pack" that added voice acting to your game for $40. I remember owning a console back when there was no such thing as "used games" or renting from the video store, you bought it new for whatever godforsaken price they were asking, or you didn't buy it at all.
Now most new games cost $39-49 for me, or I can wait a few months and get them for $5-10 in a Steam sale. I can rent a $60 console game for $5, and play it to completion over a weekend. I can get fantastic, innovative games like the Minecraft or the Humble Indie Bundle for next to nothing.
The fact is this hobby has never been cheaper, and we've never had anywhere near this amount of choice available to us. Even the most obscure genres get serviced by independent developers.
You go on and keep thinking that "greed" is like, a new thing they just came up with a couple of years ago though, or that we're teetering on the edge of a terrifying slippery slope, where things like market forces and supply and demand won't exist any more, and the publishers will charge us a BILLION DOLLARS for new games and we'll HAVE to pay it because OMG.
Our completely non-essential hobby costs money. It has always cost money. It continues to cost money. Boo frickin' hoo.
Oh yeah? I've been gaming for 30 years. I remember when a new RPG was $69-89. I remember only being able to buy 1-2 titles a year, if that. I remember when they'd release a "voice pack" that added voice acting to your game for $40. I remember owning a console back when there was no such thing as "used games" or renting from the video store, you bought it new for whatever godforsaken price they were asking, or you didn't buy it at all.
Now most new games cost $39-49 for me, or I can wait a few months and get them for $5-10 in a Steam sale. I can rent a $60 console game for $5, and play it to completion over a weekend. I can get fantastic, innovative games like the Minecraft or the Humble Indie Bundle for next to nothing.
The fact is this hobby has never been cheaper, and we've never had anywhere near this amount of choice available to us. Even the most obscure genres get serviced by independent developers.
You go on and keep thinking that "greed" is like, a new thing they just came up with a couple of years ago though, or that we're teetering on the edge of a terrifying slippery slope, where things like market forces and supply and demand won't exist any more, and the publishers will charge us a BILLION DOLLARS for new games and we'll HAVE to pay it because OMG.
Our completely non-essential hobby costs money. It has always cost money. It continues to cost money. Boo frickin' hoo.
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