Mass Effect: Andromeda goes Gold

springheeljack

Red in Tooth and Claw
May 6, 2010
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Yeah I hope Andromeda is a return to form for Bioware because Inquisition just really sucked, I'm sorry but it did. Mass Effect 3 was an amazing game(with a few problems) until the ending sucked all the enjoyment out of the game. Inquisition sucked because of the horrible customization options, lifeless worlds, horrible loot, forgettable characters(except Dorian and Varric I guess) and a plot that just wasn't interesting and had learned all the wrong lessons from the problems of Dragon Age 2 and Mass Effect 3. Hopefully Andromeda is a step forward I just want to be excited and energized by the game and story. I want to care about the characters. I want a good space opera/space adventure. This a clean slate new galaxy new characters.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

I never asked for this
Sep 8, 2011
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SlumlordThanatos said:
I wouldn't mind seeing an Elder Scrolls game set in Akavir or Atmora. Tamriel is only one continent on the world of Nirn, and while we haven't seen everything Tamriel has to offer, there's no telling what we'll find elsewhere.
I wouldn't mind that either. But this is like moving the setting away from Nirn despite the fact that it remains largely unexplored and more importantly that it's the heart and soul and the complete point of the whole game.

SlumlordThanatos said:
Setting is important, yes, but when we're talking about settings the sizes of galaxies, trading one galaxy for another doesn't change a whole lot.
I'd argue that it changes everything. It's literally a new fuckin' setting. The only way it could be worse is if they set it in another galaxy in a parallel universe.

Hawki said:
That's a bit of a false equivalency - more if individuals left the core continent of those settings and traveled to another continent. There's still a direct link between Andromeda and the Milky Way, both narratively and astro-geographically.
Just because both galaxies are in the same universe doesn't mean it's not a new setting. Jesus Christ, how do people not understand the importance of GOING TO A NEW FUCKIN' GALAXY?

At what point is the setting new? When they leave the universe and enter a new one where even the laws of physics are all different? No for fuck sake. Mass Effect is designed around civilizations in the Milky Way and humanity's role in the Milky Way. Without the galaxy the whole setting falls apart and becomes something that resembles cheap fan fiction created by people who were too stupid to figure out how to preserve the original setting.

There is really no excuse for what Bioware is doing with Mass Effect. A competent company with competent writers would have simply made a prequel. And there is no law against making a game with a smaller, more personal story. But nooooo, Bioware is 100% incompetent of making a story that's not literally on a galactic scale. Despite the fact that some of the best moments in the trilogy were about individual characters and their personal problems. A competent writer could write a smaller, more personal story about one of trillions of people in the Milky Way galaxy. You could write hundreds of thousands of stories that all take place in the same month and none of the characters from other hundreds of thousands of stories would have to meet each other. That's how enormous the galaxy is. But it's like no one at Bioware is aware of how big the galaxy actually is. It's so stupid.
 

Elijin

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Adam Jensen said:
There is really no excuse for what Bioware is doing with Mass Effect. A competent writer would simply made a prequel. And there is no law against making a game about smaller stakes. But nooooo, Bioware is 100% incompetent of making a story that's not on a literally galactic scale. Despite the fact that some of the best moments in the trilogy were about individual characters and their personal problems. A competent writer could write a smaller, more personal story about one of trillions of people in the Milky Way galaxy. You could write hundreds of thousands of stories that all take place in the same month and none of the characters from other hundreds of thousands of stories would have to meet each other. That's how enormous the galaxy is, but Bioware seems oblivious to that fact. It's like they truly don't know how big the galaxy is. It's so stupid.
Seems like you're missing the point. From what I've seen, the scale of the new story is smaller. Its the story of a colony ship, without some galactic threat or outcome. Its a new frontiers story, which carries the setting forward without its trappings. A prequel would be tied down by usual prequel stuff. Smaller stories set in universe would be somewhat jarring if they ignored the galactic threat during the third series. Any continuation touches on the fact it has to exist after the ME3 ending, which is problematic because it was not well received and its been stated no ending is canon.

I think the thing people keep missing is that its a colony ship, in a new place, eking out a little corner to call home. Carry the setting, reduce the scale of threat and sidestep the problematic remnants of the original trilogy.
 

bjj hero

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Adam Jensen said:
I still think this game is a massive cop-out and it might even qualify as an insult. The setting is of crucial importance for science fiction. It's the most important thing and they've chosen to abandon it because they wrote themselves into a corner and they're too stupid to fix it. We've barely scratched the surface of what the Milky Way has to offer. I hate the very concept of this game.

Just imagine if any other game did something like this. If suddenly a sequel Dragon Age or The Elder Scrolls or any other RPG is set on a completely different planet with completely different races and rules. The stupidity of the "idea" for ME:A is mind-blowing.
Didnt Morrowind do that? Drop you in a completely different part of the world?

Everyone thinks Morrowind was awesome. Bioshock too, changed country and setting.

Ill be getting ME:A after a price drop.
 

pookie101

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seems to be alot more freedom to experiment with characters and skills from what i just saw

oh if anyone is going to get it dont forget to watch the andromeda initative videos on the mass effect site.. you get a free helmet for you character that you will wear once and never touch again if you watch all 6.. (5 are released at the moment)

i do want to see crafting in action it seems interesting

cant believe im actually interested in a series that not long ago i swore off

bjj hero said:
Adam Jensen said:
I still think this game is a massive cop-out and it might even qualify as an insult. The setting is of crucial importance for science fiction. It's the most important thing and they've chosen to abandon it because they wrote themselves into a corner and they're too stupid to fix it. We've barely scratched the surface of what the Milky Way has to offer. I hate the very concept of this game.

Just imagine if any other game did something like this. If suddenly a sequel Dragon Age or The Elder Scrolls or any other RPG is set on a completely different planet with completely different races and rules. The stupidity of the "idea" for ME:A is mind-blowing.
Didnt Morrowind do that? Drop you in a completely different part of the world?

Everyone thinks Morrowind was awesome. Bioshock too, changed country and setting.

Ill be getting ME:A after a price drop.
its an EA game on origin they dont exactly price drop much
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Adam Jensen said:
A competent company with competent writers would have simply made a prequel.
What would be the point of a prequel? Ultimately you know where it's going to lead, and how it's going to end.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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As someone who generally likes Mass Effect it makes me a bit sad that it's now almost impossible to have a non-hostile conversation about the game on this forum.
 

pookie101

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if you wanted to make a game in the existing universe you could easily set it between the introduction and main start of ME2. its what? 12 months or something
 
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Adam Jensen said:
I still think this game is a massive cop-out and it might even qualify as an insult. The setting is of crucial importance for science fiction.
You aren't wrong, but the universe is the same one. Although the galaxy isn't centered around the Citadel anymore, most of the species, weapons, biotics, etc are the same. It's just that it's an entirely different story being told.
Adam Jensen said:
It's the most important thing and they've chosen to abandon it because they wrote themselves into a corner and they're too stupid to fix it. We've barely scratched the surface of what the Milky Way has to offer.
You may well be right about the Milky Way and you're definitely right about the first part, but what are the alternatives. There is no doubt that one of the first questions asked in the earliest board meetings about what would be "ME4" was "Should it continue from ME3?". Right after, or a long time after? Should Shepard be the protagonist again? Should it import your ME3 save? Maybe a prequel? Maybe an inter-quel?

There would have been a number of issues with writing a fourth ME game in our galaxy. First, the grandest story that could have been told in it already has been. A rule of writing is to write the most exciting story within the fictional world. Consider f.ex they might have told the story of the First Contact War with Humans and Turians, or the Quarian-Geth War. But Shepard's story was the grandest, most exciting one. He was the first Human SPECTRE so any human in that galaxy before or after won't live up to him. Second, there's an expectation. For the same reason casting directors didn't ask Justin Hartley to reprise the role of Green Arrow in the eponymous TV show that started after Smallville ended, had they asked him there would have been an expectation. He already had a history, relationships and the universe he inhabited already established many rules and characters. By wiping the slate, the new team had carte blanche to create anything, but without having to recreate the lore, history, rules, etc. Thirdly, almost none of the main people behind the trilogy are involved in this title and there would inevitably have been a huge shift in tone that couldn't be ignored in the Shepard/Reaper timeline.

I would admit tho, that I would have liked a sequel, even if it did mean canonising an ending from ME3. It would be nice to go, say 100 years later, and see the galaxy healing but under a new, if not so great a threat. Saying that, I've kinda forgotten what the official ending was, only that it sucked so bad I used a mod to fix it. I believe they broke all the relays at the end during the "space magic" bit so interstellar travel wouldn't be possible any longer. But they did write themselves into a corner...TBH the shift from ME1 to ME2 was so jarring and ME3 just made it even worse so perhaps it's a good thing that story is over...it would only have gotten worse if they tried to continue it.

Adam Jensen said:
Just imagine if any other game did something like this. If suddenly a sequel Dragon Age or The Elder Scrolls or any other RPG is set on a completely different planet with completely different races and rules. The stupidity of the "idea" for ME:A is mind-blowing.
Dragon Age pretty much did do this. 2 went to Kirkwall and 3 went to Orlais and none of the events in prior games had any effect on the world of the sequels beyond token cameos. The magic systems and even gameplay were very different, about the only thing they had in common was Varric, cameos of characters like Morrigan, Leliana and Flemeth and the geography. They may as well have been on other planets for how relevant they were to each other. As for Elder Scrolls, they are set in different countries, hundreds of years apart and the stories didn't branch. Saying that, at least unlike DA and ME, at least you know what you're going to get with a TES game.

GrumbleGrump said:
Not really excited. Not only did they bum-fuck the lore already (arguably they started doing that in ME2) with all that "yuge ark ships" deal, not only they made no effort to improve their by now traditional bad animations, but they took the fucking coward's way out by making you use a god damn human again. You could play as all the citadel races, but no, lets use the human again. Let's also forget all the ugly characters.
They did. ME2: Arrival, as well as making almost no sense in itself, directly contradicts the entirety of ME1. Not only that, the start of ME3 then directly contradicts Arrival and also ME1. And yes, the human thing is a bit stale, but the "selling point" quote unquote of ME was a voiced protagonist who is referred to by name by other characters. *shrug* And holy shit, they are so fugly. Both Ryders, Cora and Liam are potato people with the worst case of Bioware-face since they changed to Frostbite, and Inquisition's characters were hideous!
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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Universes are pretty big places. There's room for an extra adventure or two. Throw me some glittery sci-fi journey of discovery any day. Show me the limits of human imagination! Don't care about ballsed up endings. A good/satisfying ending is a 0.035% (2sf) possibility in gaming (definitely did not just make that up, here are my papers). Unless you painstakingly filter out the waste products and snort the remaining crystallised great endings on a regular basis. Which probably isn't a healthy or useful method of consuming this media.
 

Zhukov

The Laughing Arsehole
Dec 29, 2009
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pookie101 said:
if you wanted to make a game in the existing universe you could easily set it between the introduction and main start of ME2. its what? 12 months or something
The problem with the prequel route is that literally anything they did would be overshadowed by the upcoming events.

Let's say they did a small scale story. Maybe featuring... I dunno... an asari and krogan bounty hunting dou involved in a gangland conflict on Omega. Or something a little bigger but still way below fate-of-the-galaxy stuff like, say, the adventures of a Quarian on pilgrimage who decides to try and make contact with the Geth. Whatever.

Anything that happens in those stories will be rendered almost irrelevant once you remember what's about to happen. Did the bounty hunters have a falling out over a particularly horrible contract and one had to kill the other and flee Omega with their would-be target? Doesn't matter. They're probably all going to die anyway when the reapers show up. Or they might get turned into robo-people with green stuff in their skin. Did the Quarian pilgrim gain some great insight into the Geth but end up having to return to the migrant fleet empty-handed when he realized that any intelligence he brought back would only be used against the beings he had come to sympathize with? Doesn't matter. They're going to war anyway, and at least one them is likely to get wiped out.

And so on and so forth. It's pretty tricky trying to dial things back from once you've done The Fate Of Basically Everything.
 

Elijin

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Stepping away from the 'whether it should exist' boring complaining, that combat looks great to me.

I'm really interested in the way they've set up powers and profiles to switch through on the fly, and have high hopes. Super interested for the MP beta to see how it translates to that aspect of the game.
 
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bjj hero said:
Didnt Morrowind do that? Drop you in a completely different part of the world?
Each TES game is set in one of the different countries of Tamriel. Daggerfall was set in both High Rock (home of the Bretons) and Hammerfell (Redguards). Morrowind was set on Vvardenfell, home of the Dunmer. Oblivion was in Cyrodil, Imperial homeland and Skyrim in its namesake, home of the Nords. There are decades or centuries between each title, feature different protagonists and since the stories are linear (ie. there's no good/bad choices/endings), the events of prequels can be taken as a given in the lore. The continent was the same one but the only "cross-over" of which I'm aware was being able to visit Solstheim in TESIII: Bloodmoon and TESV: Dragonborn, which I thought was quite a nice touch.

pookie101 said:
seems to be alot more freedom to experiment with characters and skills from what i just saw
I'm not convinced I really like that. It seems to have the same issue as Skyrim, where they've simply removed the individuality of different classes entirely, and with it, part of the role-playing. Being able to learn and master everything means there's no real choice, our characters aren't even slightly individual or different from any other. I always resented the ME3 cutscenes, where Shepard fires an Avenger or pistol *my* Shepard wasn't carrying and never used his/her biotics, despite how integral they were.

pookie101 said:
i do want to see crafting in action it seems interesting
Crafting does have a place in video games but is this game one of them? We see in the official video [https://youtu.be/NOIzH6UcoW4?t=205] the PC picking up flowers/materials and what not, not unlike in Far Cry games. How much does that really add to gameplay? Is it better or does it add more depth than simply finding/buying gear as we did in prior titles? I appreciate "exploration" but running around an open world picking up flowers doesn't really qualify. I'm not passing judgement here, just asking the question. We'll have to wait and see. The system does use "blueprints" which I believe are found or bought, and they will result in items of different levels and rarities.
pookie101 said:
if you wanted to make a game in the existing universe you could easily set it between the introduction and main start of ME2. its what? 12 months or something
Do you mean specifically in the time-frame Shepard is "dead"? The issue comes back to what I mentioned above, one of telling the most interesting story and the expectation. If it was set in that timeframe, who would the protagonist be? One of the Normandy crew? It specifically couldn't be about the Reapers, Collectors, Normandy, Shepard, Miranda/Cerberus, etc. There would likely be an expectation that we'd see the ME1 Normandy crew. The only story that happened in that timeframe was told in comic books [http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Mass_Effect:_Redemption], on Liara and Feron saving Shepard's remains for Cerberus.

I think any story in the Milky Way would have issues. Prior to ME, it wouldn't be about a Human SPECTRE saving the galaxy. During we already have and post ME3, they wrote themselves into a corner. If they removed it from the trilogy far enough chronologically, then at that point, does it matter if it's in a new galaxy or not? Nice as it would be to see our galaxy post Reapers, I don't trust BW writers to handle it anymore.

Phoenixmgs said:
I've very reserved about the game and waiting for feedback.

I hope the game is like previous Mass Effects with quality over quantity quests (DA:I). How good the core game is and having only elements that improve that core are what I look for most in games. I don't want to waste time on lackluster content or busywork.

I'm not sure how this whole storyline is going to work or make sense. What's the point of going to another galaxy? To get away from the Reapers? It wouldn't make sense the Reapers are just a thing for our galaxy as then the whole organics vs synthetics with the synthetics winning and killing off all organic life would happen in all other galaxies then. Of course, those winning super powerful synthetics would make it to the Milky Way at some point. I always figured when the Reapers were gone from the Milky Way, they were tending to all the other galaxies because that's really the only thing that makes sense.
ME3 had a lot of "quantity over quality" to paraphrase you. Fetching Obelisks, Banners and Books for 5 War Assets or whatever. On the subject of the storyline, I can explain it in a spoiler-free way (since I don't know the game's story).

There was a conversation with Admiral Hackett quite early in ME3, that I cannot find a video for, but I believe it was one of the dialogues relating to the Mars Archive/Crucible plans. In it, he references "other plans in motion" or something to that effect; this is now taken to mean the Arks featured in ME: Andromeda. The story goes something like: ME1 happened, Sovereign was defeated. Council races decided to build "Arks" to ship many of their species away from the Milky Way, as a contingency in case the Reapers return and succeed in wiping them out. That way the civilisations would continue. There were many Arks, of which the four belonging to the Humans, Asari, Salarians and Turians arrived in the Heleus Cluster after 600 years of space travel with the crew in cryostasis. We don't know about other Arks that may have been sent, this may be a part of the game's story. The Arks were completed, populated and sent off *after* the events of ME2 but prior to ME2: Arrival. Thus the last anyone on the Arks new, the Reapers were still not an imminent threat and despite 600 years passing in transit, they have no way to know what fate befell the Milky Way. With them, the Arks carried parts of the "Nexus", a pseudo-Citadel structure that would serve the same function in Andromeda as the Reaper-made original did in the milky way.

TBH it's a rather absurd retcon (or is it a plothole?)...ME2 already established in a huge retcon of its own, that the Council did not believe in the Reapers, despite Sovereign's attack. So despite that ME2 established this, the races still had the notion of creating these Arks that would ensure their civilisations lived on in another galaxy just in-case the Reapers they didn't believe existed did in fact win. And that apart from an off-the-cuff remark by Hackett that has only post-Andromeda announcement been taken to be a foreshadowing, no one in the galaxy knew to mention the Arks in either ME2 or 3. You'd think *someone* would have noticed it.

We also don't know how interstellar travel will work. In the Milky Way we have/had the mass relays that used the "mass effect" to send ships to a relay's twin instantaneously. We thought they were prothean in origin, but they were left by the reapers. How does the Tempest travel between star systems in the Heleus Cluster? Do they have their own version of mass relays?

I'm with you on the waiting for feedback. I'm long since done with pre-ordering any AAA game because of too many broken promises, shady practises and the rest. And after DA2, ME3 and more significantly, DA:I, BW doesn't have the track record they used to have. The hands-on videos I linked to offer some hope tho with generally positive feedback and I'll credit EA for the simple act of allowing the press to discuss the game a month prior to release, unlike Ubisoft and their embargo policies. But yeah, the jury is out till after reviews start coming in.
 

pookie101

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Zhukov said:
pookie101 said:
if you wanted to make a game in the existing universe you could easily set it between the introduction and main start of ME2. its what? 12 months or something
The problem with the prequel route is that literally anything they did would be overshadowed by the upcoming events.

Let's say they did a small scale story. Maybe featuring... I dunno... an asari and krogan bounty hunting dou involved in a gangland conflict on Omega. Or something a little bigger but still way below fate-of-the-galaxy stuff like, say, the adventures of a Quarian on pilgrimage who decides to try and make contact with the Geth. Whatever.

Anything that happens in those stories will be rendered almost irrelevant once you remember what's about to happen. Did the bounty hunters have a falling out over a particularly horrible contract and one had to kill the other and flee Omega with their would-be target? Doesn't matter. They're probably all going to die anyway when the reapers show up. Or they might get turned into robo-people with green stuff in their skin. Did the Quarian pilgrim gain some great insight into the Geth but end up having to return to the migrant fleet empty-handed when he realized that any intelligence he brought back would only be used against the beings he had come to sympathize with? Doesn't matter. They're going to war anyway, and at least one them is likely to get wiped out.

And so on and so forth. It's pretty tricky trying to dial things back from once you've done The Fate Of Basically Everything.
but you can still have an enjoyable time with the story even knowing what will happen. every historical game is like that.. sniper 4 is an example.. a person can still put bullets in the heads of germans knowing that in the end it doesnt matter as the soviets captured berlin
 

GrumbleGrump

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KingsGambit said:
They did. ME2: Arrival, as well as making almost no sense in itself, directly contradicts the entirety of ME1. Not only that, the start of ME3 then directly contradicts Arrival and also ME1. And yes, the human thing is a bit stale, but the "selling point" quote unquote of ME was a voiced protagonist who is referred to by name by other characters. *shrug* And holy shit, they are so fugly. Both Ryders, Cora and Liam are potato people with the worst case of Bioware-face since they changed to Frostbite, and Inquisition's characters were hideous!
I never played Arrival. I know that Shepard destroys a Mass Relay in it, but not much after that. I was going for stuff like biotic charge having no basis on actual stablished lore (how exactly does manipulating gravity allow you to not only slam into your enemies but phase through objects?).
 
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GrumbleGrump said:
KingsGambit said:
They did. ME2: Arrival, as well as making almost no sense in itself, directly contradicts the entirety of ME1. Not only that, the start of ME3 then directly contradicts Arrival and also ME1. And yes, the human thing is a bit stale, but the "selling point" quote unquote of ME was a voiced protagonist who is referred to by name by other characters. *shrug* And holy shit, they are so fugly. Both Ryders, Cora and Liam are potato people with the worst case of Bioware-face since they changed to Frostbite, and Inquisition's characters were hideous!
I never played Arrival. I know that Shepard destroys a Mass Relay in it, but not much after that. I was going for stuff like biotic charge having no basis on actual stablished lore (how exactly does manipulating gravity allow you to not only slam into your enemies but phase through objects?).
The short version is that ME2: Arrival was basically the plot of the first game, condensed into a nonsense 2 hour version. Shepard prevented Saren from activating the Citadel relay and the fleets destroyed Sovereign, so by the story, the Reapers in Dark Space would never have received the signal that it was time for the new cycle to start *and* couldn't have made the journey even if they had. Then Arrival said "Wait, there's another relay so everything that happened in ME1 is moot and the Reapers we don't believe in are coming. And they conveniently broadcast ahead to let us know they'd arrive in 24 hours!".

So the civilisations came up with a plan to throw an asteroid at the relay to destroy it. They were just about to enact it when Shepard arrived and *literally* as he walks in, everyone became instantly indoctrinated and decided they had to *not* destroy the relay *and* stop Shepard from doing so. But he shoots them and activates the asteroid's engines (same plan as the terrorists in Bring Down the Sky) and then everyone blames *him* for doing exactly what they built the asteroid to do and were about to do before he arrived and they got insta-owned by Harbinger.

Then ME3 happened which contradicted both ME1 *and* Arrival anyway by saying the Reapers evidently don't even need a relay to travel from Dark Space into our galaxy.

Biotic Charge is the coolest ability in the game. Hands off.
 

Athennesi

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Then ME3 happened which contradicted both ME1 *and* Arrival anyway by saying the Reapers evidently don't even need a relay to travel from Dark Space into our galaxy.
Not to mention they ignore Citadel throughout entire game, even if entire conflict is centered around conquering it...whole trilogy was riddled with plot holes and writers blindly ignoring everything they've stated as canon fact before.
Imo, the plot was too damn big for it's own good from the start...Space exploration games should focus more on cultural and moral/technological conflicts/phenomenons instead of chasing after larger-than-life villains typical magic/fantasy genre.
Hell, the best epizodes of Star Trek are exactly of that kind...I'd rather see something like "Inner Light" here.
 

CaitSeith

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Oh! Does that mean that we won't have to download a bigass day-1 patch!? No? Too much to ask? Anyone? :(
 
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CaitSeith said:
Oh! Does that mean that we won't have to download a bigass day-1 patch!? No? Too much to ask? Anyone? :(
Usually, after a game has "gone Gold", meaning the final, retail version is done, the time between this point and release (in this instance, Feb 24-March 21) is spent on bug fixing and polish so that any overlooked issues that made it into the "Gold" version can be fixed by Day 1. While one could argue about the need for such patches, I've never been against them. If a dev is spending time fixing and polishing the game so everyone has a better Day 1 experience, I would applaud them. If they instead spend the time working on DLC to sell on Day 1, I'll call them unkind things and be very disappointed. The former is a benefit to the customer who spends money to get the best product on release day. The latter is money grubbing at its worst, asking for more money to get the full Day 1 experience that should be included in the original purchase price.
 

someguy1231

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Still don't have high hopes for this game, after ME3 and DAI. The protagonist is still far too much of a Mary Sue for my liking, and the character models are incredibly ugly, though I'm not sure how much of that is intentional and how much is due to Bioware's incompetence.