Mass effect dev: "Stop thinking you're the producer."

[Harb]

1) Customers have right to express their wishes and demands in civilized manner

True. So when are gamers going to start doing that?

Probably soon, but the anonymity of the Internet (and the lack of being held responsible or confronted with what you write there) makes it really hard to behave and not just act arrogantly most of the time (I also have sometimes issues with that ).

Producers should not expect customers to stand in line and blindly buy everything that is tossed their way (no matter how hard many game publishers want this).

The problem is that they do because standing in line and blindly buying everything is exactly what the game community does.

There are legitimate criticisms to be made of industry practices. But they will not get heard because gamers are their own worst enemy. They talk a big game but won't actually do anything to inconvenience themselves in the name of standing up against a practice they disapprove of. Gamers have to start engaging in meaningful discourse instead of acting like a bunch of belligerent goons every time something they disagree with happens.

Agreed, from a psychological point of view, gamers tend to act, from time to time, like addicts (no offense meant) and thus increase the threshold of what publishers can get away with. EA is playing with fire, we will not see them caught on fire tomorrow, but one day, the lack of customers' goodwill will backfire.

 

[Vegosiux]

Hmmm. Hmmm... No. You want to be treated like an adult? Act like one. I don't buy that "fair game" bullshit. That's just assholes wanting to act like assholes and not get called out on it.

No, actually, the asshole move is trying to guilt trip your customers if they're dissatisfied with your service.

 

[42]

http://kotaku.com/5892199/stop-thinking-youre-a-producer-former-mass-effect-designer-tells-gamers

Well, as the people who buy your games and pay for your salaries, I would say we do have some sort of control in what we want.

that is like saying because you pay for a movie ticket you get to demand the director change th movie.

How can people be so entitled?

well for one thing WE don't actually pay their salaries. EA does. EA is the one that puts money into investing into the company to produce the game, derp.

 

[Harb]

1) Customers have right to express their wishes and demands in civilized manner

True. So when are gamers going to start doing that?

The moment we stop getting called "entitled" for wanting to protect our consumer rights. Until then, everything is fair game.

I don't have a problem with being called entitled (actually there is nothing wrong with the word itself, god knows why some people use it as a judgement). I used money from my limited budged and I should be smart enough to expect (and demand!) certain quality and fair behaviour from my seller. If I don't, nothing will force publishers to improve their products and services and ultimately I as a customer will loose.

 

[Vegosiux]

Still not an excuse to act like a dumbass in public. You want respect? Start earning it.

Who was talking about "respect"? I'm talking about a professional attitude toward one's customers.

 

[Lilani]

No because you seem to forget, that this DLC didn't magically appear in the process of making ME3. They had a team dedicated to it. People got paid, hours got spend.

It was never already there.

That doesn't mean that's how the customer is going to interpret it. Customer service isn't how well you treat the customer, it's how well the customer feels they're being treated. And right now, EA's customers are feeling screwed. On paper, it looks like a conveniently available bonus. In practice, it looks like cut or scrap content they're charging us extra for. Again, a simple waiting period between putting the game out and putting the DLC out will make us feel a lot less screwed.

 

[Madkipz]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRRpGlmtws8&feature=g-user-lik&context=G2cccbb4UCGXQYbcTJ33aalZCQikWcgeZgLWuk3VLKBLIDYlnNdfs

So yea. He is on the disc, and they still claim to not remove content for use as DLC? I would have figured you for a smarter man.

Yeah that video at no points say that the content wasn't on the disk. They said that once the core was done and it vent to certification.

"the content in "From Ashes" was developed by a seperate team (after the core game was finished)
And not the main game vent into certification"

He downright said that it wasn't finished until after it vent into certification. Tell me is it finished on the disk? I am sorry it isn't? there is no gotya moment then?

The content isn't on the disk. His place holder is there. So was Katsumi and Zaeed in ME2. That content wasn't finished until after launch. Its sensationalism and idiocy to link that video.

"we would never take stuff out of the core game and only have it as DLC"

And they never did. Fact is the game doesn't lose anything without the prothean. it is still a complete game that stands on it own merit.

Well it was given for free to collectors edition folks. Why should disc holders not be privy to the many minutes of dialogue he has? It is very significant, especially on the Asari planet. If Zaeed was free why should this guy who cost us 10 dollars?

 

[Lilani]

Fact is it had a separate team and a separate production cost.

Feelings arn't objective and shouldn't be used.

"My opinion is that it is part of the full game" is just that. An opinion. Has no bearing on the actual reality of the situation.

Feelings aren't objective, but they have everything to do with customer satisfaction. EA and Bioware shouldn't complain about customers complaining about them if they know what the problem is but all they say is "well sorry, that's the way it is." They'd have a lot more support in the gaming community if they'd make these little concessions every now and again. If they want to go about stepping on people's toes and making their customers feel like the dirt under their heel then fine, whatever, it's their business. But if that's what they're going to do, then they should never feel as though they don't deserve any of the criticism they get, because they're not making any effort to improve the situation.

Thousands of companies do unnecessary things to make customers feel better about things--things which are not their fault, and things that it would not be fair to blame them for. I was at a WalMart once, and the power was going out due to a severe thunderstorm in the area. So they were running on backup generators and their computers were flickering on and off, making the checkout lines very long. But there were several employees walking around with boxes of donuts at the checkout lines, giving free donuts out to people. Did it change the nature of the situation? No. Did it save them money? No, in fact it cost them money and labor. But it kept people happy, and it made them feel better about what was going on. They still waited a long time to be checked out, and they still paid the same amount for their groceries, but they felt better about it and that made all the difference.

Also, I worked in Disney World, Florida for a while on an internship. For about a full month, It's a Small World was down for renovations. This was a pretty big deal, because believe it or not Small World is a very popular and classic ride. Throughout that month, they had about six dedicated cast members whose jobs were to stand in front of the construction wall and tell people that the ride was closed. Think about that--six people who were paid to stand there and tell people information a simple sign could have conveyed. But they chose to use people instead, because unlike a sign people can make the message and apology personal, and they can answer very specific and in-depth questions. People tend to take bad news better when it comes from a real-live person than from a lifeless sign. Disney didn't have to do that, but they did because they knew it would make the people who felt robbed of an experience feel a little less down about the situation.

 

[Lilani]

So you have your criticisms. Now what are you going to do with them?

Why do I have to do anything with them? EA already knows full well we think they're assholes, and they know why. Personally I haven't bought Mass Effect 3 yet, and I probably won't for a while yet. So I'm just going to wait it out a bit longer. Digital distribution is making games less of a product and more of a service. Companies like Valve are quickly moving out of obscurity and gaining more and more significance. Hell, Gabe Newell was recently identified as a billionaire by Forbes. I don't think I've ever heard of another person so deeply involved in video games being a billionaire. So maybe their bottom line isn't being affected right now, but that doesn't mean it won't affect their significance down the line. Games are quickly changing, and if they don't hop on board quickly they are going to miss the party.

 

[Harb]

What the customer feels it it has no bearing on what it is.

Fact is it had a separate team and a separate production cost.

Feelings arn't objective and shouldn't be used.

"My opinion is that it is part of the full game" is just that. An opinion. Has no bearing on the actual reality of the situation.

What customer feels has a vital impact on his future purchases since happy customer = buying customer. If a customers feels like he is being ripped off, he still might buy the product, but he will be much more decisive with his next purchase (assuming the desire of owning the future product doesn't overcome his negative feelings).

Feelings aren't objective, but can be (and should be) used if a company is trying to evaluate what impact their acting and their products will have. Feelings can be generalized and if we count out sociopaths or extreme cases, similar response to a certain situation can be observed with a sample of one person as well as 100 people (if they are exposed to that situation alone).

The statement that the DLC has been build by another team doesn't really concern a customer (just like you don't care who built parts of your mobile phone that was at the end assembled by the company who sells it). The DLC bears the logo of Bioware. The team that made the DLC is payed by the same company that published the game. The DLC used all the resources available to the rest of the game (including time, since the separate team could've been actually working on the rest of the game if they weren't doing the DLC) and major parts of the DLC have been finished before the game went gold. Thus the DLC should be either free.

Boss fights in Deus Ex: Human Revolution have been outsourced to another company. But they were still (sadly) part of the game and we didn't pay extra for them. The separate team (within the same company) isn't an excuse.

 

[Epona]

A few years ago, no one would have defended Day One DLC. What happened?

 

[Lilani]

Technically waiting is still doing something. And it would be better for everyone if gamers could learn a bit of patience and not fly off the handle every time they have a bone to pick. Like I said, there are publishers/studios I don't buy from for various reasons. I just don't think I need to tell the whole internet the details every 5 minutes.

My whole point is that when gamers go off on their typical rants while still buying the game anyway it makes it that much easier for the publishers to disregard us. This makes the industry change more painful and trying than it has to be. Why would I want to make things harder on myself?

Yeah, I also find it silly how spectacularly video game protests fail. I love those images of user listings from Steam protest groups the day of release for games, and how many are playing the exact games they are in a group to protest (though admittedly, I did join the "Play HL2 to raise awareness for HL3" group a while back and then later made other plans and didn't touch Steam all that day, hehe).

That whole approach sort of just doesn't work with video games, at least when you're talking about the faint-hearted general public. They're not like food products or services where there's another provider lined up who will give you the EXACT same product, so you can still get the benefit of the product but without giving the company you're protesting the benefits. The only real way to do that with games is buying used, but even then somebody had to have bought that game at some point and that would completely rule out all PC exclusive games.

So...yeah. The only thing we can really reasonably do is keep the pressure on, but be classy about it. It is sort of interesting to watch the tides ebb and flow, seeing all these developer and publishers flounder about experimenting with new forms of DLC, DRM, and digital distributors as they are trying to learn the lessons about customer service that Valve figured out ages ago.