Mass Effect is not an RPG
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I wouldn't say that is the problem at all. Many of the choices in the game present clear moral conundrums, moreso than the first game in some cases. The problem with the second game is how they made the system around quantifying your choices. There were a lot of cases where I wanted to pick a renegade option because it's clearly a decision I would have made, but I couldn't because it would reduce my overall persuasion score, which is a serious loss.D_987 said:
"A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." - William Shakespeare
Does it really matter whether we call Mass Effect a Shooter or RPG? It's just pure entertainment. If you don't like it, then there is no reason you should have to buy it in the first place.
Does it really matter whether we call Mass Effect a Shooter or RPG? It's just pure entertainment. If you don't like it, then there is no reason you should have to buy it in the first place.
The same people who argue about this stuff are the same people who argue whether bands like Slipknot are metal/nu metal/thrash/post melodic hardcore... who gives a fuck!
What does it really matter? You either enjoy it for what it is or you don't. If you don't move on and play something else.
What does it really matter? You either enjoy it for what it is or you don't. If you don't move on and play something else.
I'd say Mass Effect is more of an action RPG as a whole, ME1 felt like action RPG, leaning towards RPG, while ME2 is opposite, leaning towards action.
Also, for anyone that says RPGs are games where you role-play as a character, you can apply that statement to almost any game, since you technically "role-play" as that person. I personally don't consider Mass Effect to be a RPG either, but I suppose whatever people want to say to separate themselves from people. Just seeing what the second one changed, I think it should be considered a TPS but that's just me.
Also, for anyone that says RPGs are games where you role-play as a character, you can apply that statement to almost any game, since you technically "role-play" as that person. I personally don't consider Mass Effect to be a RPG either, but I suppose whatever people want to say to separate themselves from people. Just seeing what the second one changed, I think it should be considered a TPS but that's just me.
RPG stands for roleplaying game. The essence of roleplaying is to take on the persona of a person other then yourself. You, the player, control the characters actions, speech, thoughts and beliefs. While ME doesnt fit that to a t (you have no specific control over the characters speech) the rest of it is pretty spot on and to be fair with video games youre always going to have some restrictions in interactivity.
Some roleplaying games put you in the persona of a specific person (example: Mike Thorton in Alpha Protocol), others let you choose a great deal about the character (Example: main character in Fallout 3). Mass effect is a mix of the two and ME2 dilutes it further, almost to the linearity of Fable but it still retains the ability to roleplay
Things like levels, powering up abilities, and such are not in and of themselves roleplaying elements. They are upgrading elements historically connected to Pen and paper games such as Pathfinder and Exalted.
Some roleplaying games put you in the persona of a specific person (example: Mike Thorton in Alpha Protocol), others let you choose a great deal about the character (Example: main character in Fallout 3). Mass effect is a mix of the two and ME2 dilutes it further, almost to the linearity of Fable but it still retains the ability to roleplay
Things like levels, powering up abilities, and such are not in and of themselves roleplaying elements. They are upgrading elements historically connected to Pen and paper games such as Pathfinder and Exalted.
Just putting it out there but "Karma Systems" are irredeemably bad. They aren't... dynamic enough.
Here's an example.
Here's an example.
In Fallout 3 I helped Roy (Peacefully) move into Ten Penny Tower. He kills everyone in the tower, bigot against ghouls or otherwise. So when I realize this (in a bout of righteous anger) I kill roy. Point blank, using "The Terrible Shotgun". I lose karma and everyone attacks me. Fuck karma systems.
This all comes down to semantics. Is it an RPG? Well, every game has you taking the role of someone else. In my opinion, what makes an RPG is dialogue choices. Without that you're not really in a role, you just watch your character talk. As for black and white morality, I didn't mind that at all, and if I recall there were some fairly neutral options as well. Now, whether its a good game, or if the story is deep enough is all a matter of opinion. There is no right answer. Personally, I really cared who lived and died and was engaged with the story. A lot of people disagree, but hey, that's true for just about any topic.
I'm sorry, since when did a username have anything to do with post readability? If you had bothered to check, the grammar of my posts is always incredibly readable. So before you try to be an asshole to someone again:silasbufu said:
1. Read the forum rules.
2. Do a bit of research.
One of the main things about this website is standard of writing. If you make a post here, you need to try to make it as clear and understandable as possible. I wasn't asking her to write perfectly, just fix her post so it was easier to read. I checked Vault101's profile before I posted and discovered that she is Australian. While we are a multicultural country here, I made an educated guess that she did know how to write properly and was just being lazy. Further evidence of this is in her interests if you would care to read it.silasbufu said:
SL33TBL1ND said:
Since no ones budging and its just endless arguing i'll just ask somthing.
If they felt the rpg stuff was as polished and took it out THEN WHY Oh lord WHY did they keep the TERRIBLE moral choice. The WORST moral choice. Theres no reason not to be good unless you want to be a dick. Armored core Last raven has better moral choices and branching storylines and its a Mecha action game!
Really bioware your just gonna tell whats a good choice and whats bad. How Fu*&(^&* Stupid do you think we are? Also can you please punish us for being good? Lol no before i continue. I love mass effect. Its like FFXIII very linear but just amazing i love it.
Just stop saying all this crap thats not true bioware. There was a mas effect 1 trailer that had a concept i want to see. Shepard said this "Many decisions lie ahead.... none of them easy"
I wish being good had consequences. I wish we got punished. Back to last raven, in that game theres branching paths. The good path is the HARDEST PATH in the game. This is how i see things. Make the good choices have tremendious consequences, have being a pragon like super hard mode where being a renegade is easy. Because as we all know being evil is always easyier then being hard.
Just please bioware makew the moral choices more grey. Make us not really know DONT OUTLINE THEM BLUE AND RED.
Army of two 40th day has better Choices. Theres one where you can take guns from this one guy or leave them. The guy says "Please its my job just leave them" You feel sorry for him because its jis job to gaurd and them and hell your just mercs why would you. If you dont take them you get NOTHING and learn that he gives them to the invading army your fighting! Blew my mind, thank you army of two for being diffrent and intresting.
If they felt the rpg stuff was as polished and took it out THEN WHY Oh lord WHY did they keep the TERRIBLE moral choice. The WORST moral choice. Theres no reason not to be good unless you want to be a dick. Armored core Last raven has better moral choices and branching storylines and its a Mecha action game!
Really bioware your just gonna tell whats a good choice and whats bad. How Fu*&(^&* Stupid do you think we are? Also can you please punish us for being good? Lol no before i continue. I love mass effect. Its like FFXIII very linear but just amazing i love it.
Just stop saying all this crap thats not true bioware. There was a mas effect 1 trailer that had a concept i want to see. Shepard said this "Many decisions lie ahead.... none of them easy"
I wish being good had consequences. I wish we got punished. Back to last raven, in that game theres branching paths. The good path is the HARDEST PATH in the game. This is how i see things. Make the good choices have tremendious consequences, have being a pragon like super hard mode where being a renegade is easy. Because as we all know being evil is always easyier then being hard.
Just please bioware makew the moral choices more grey. Make us not really know DONT OUTLINE THEM BLUE AND RED.
Army of two 40th day has better Choices. Theres one where you can take guns from this one guy or leave them. The guy says "Please its my job just leave them" You feel sorry for him because its jis job to gaurd and them and hell your just mercs why would you. If you dont take them you get NOTHING and learn that he gives them to the invading army your fighting! Blew my mind, thank you army of two for being diffrent and intresting.
Yeah and if you do try and take them he gets shot in the head by accident. A wallet is pictured next to him, open at a picture of his family with a bullet hole through his face. Brutal.Legion IV said:
That game did have some awesome choices but some of them were a bit abstract; like how could you possibly know that at the time you made choice A it would result in consequence B?
The best "choice" in that game was when you had to decide what to do when the guy (who saved your life BTW) goes to rape that woman he claims is an enemy combatant. That rocked me to the core that one.
I also agree that the "high" path should be the hardest path.
Saying that every game can be considered a RPG is one of the dumbest arguments ever. RPGs started as pen and paper games where you created your own character (which is found in games) and where you decided everything about what your character did (which is very rare to find in games), your character in pen and paper RPGs don't say anything that you didn't say or do anything that you didn't decide. Pen and paper RPGs only have stats to determine if your intended action did indeed happen as it would be stupid for the DM to say this enemy hit you in the arm and you say, "No, I dodged that" every time. In almost every JRPG, everything every character says is pre-scripted and everything every character does outside of combat are pre-scripted, that is not role-playing. I love a good JRPG but I understand what it is, which is a scripted story with RPG combat. Mass Effect allows for more actual "role-playing" than almost every RPG, that is why Mass Effect is a RPG.TerranReaper said:
Would a movie shot from one character's perspective be a RPG? That's basically what almost every game is but you control the character during combat situations. Your actions in basically every game don't affect the story or character development, your actions just affect whether you live or die.
Fair enough, that's something I can understand to justify ME as a RPG. However, I probably should've worded my statement better since people stated that ME is a RPG because you play the "role" of Shepard, it is therefore considered a RPG, that is the logic which some people used, which doesn't say much, because you do technically play a role of someone/something in any game.Phoenixmgs said:
However, when I think "RPG", I think of some sort of development within the character(s) in terms of them becoming more powerful or better (depending on the game).
I can see why you brought up that argument for people saying that it's a RPG because you play as Shepard and thus extend it to Mario saying in Mario, you play the role of Mario. I do really hate when people say every game is a RPG and literally mean it.TerranReaper said: