Mass Effect is not an RPG
- Thread starter Vault101
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There is a point though in that fact, RPG is a general term that has been attached to a specific set of conventions, perverting it's original meaning. When you say RPG many people now think of halth bars, stats, skills, items, quest and all the other trappings that go with it, but truly 99.99999% of games are RPGs, i.e. You play the role of someone other than yourself in a world different to your own. So Mass Effect 2 is an RPG. Halo is an RPG. The COD games are RPGs. I guess the real problem is if you reclaim the term RPG and apply it properly, what do you call the games that are specifically referred to as RPGs?
I am sorry. If itwasn't for the first ME's albeit still a bit light RPG elements the gameply would be boring as eating cardboard. You may as well just play Gears and imagine it in space with good dialogue. The RPG elements just add so much to the game even if that damn wheel(although unfortunately needed) completely scr ews the flow of the combat.
Just no.JoeThree said:
I don't like Gears of War at all, the more any game makes steps towards that mess of annoyance the more I dislike it.
I also liked the micro-management. For me part of the fun of RPGs has always been switching things out for better things, and it could have been stripped to the basics without taking the basics away as well. Very very easily.
Largely I also think that it became far too linear. ME1 you could land on a planet, drive around picking things up and discovering stuff, and then blasting off into space again. ME2 you scan the planet from orbit, get dropped into a shooting gallery of chest high walls and leave the shooting gallery. The world felt tiny, cramped, and not very much like Mass Effect. Say it all took place on Earth and you could have been playing a bad Bladerunner-esque Gears of War.
I liked ME2, don't get me wrong, one of my favourite games, but it was much less open than the first one, and suffered for it. Besides, it was never a true Role-Playing game because you can't role-play. All they did was make a game with three endings and you pick the one you want most, then make sure all your dialogue points you towards that ending. That's not role-playing. Role-playing would let me completely ignore the galaxy-saving quest and go be a smuggler on the outer rim, or join C-Sec and die old and happy with several kids and never having even heard of Cerberus.
Mass Effect is not a role-playing game, it's a choose-the-role-we've-given-you-from-this-incredibly-narrow-selection game.
I also liked the micro-management. For me part of the fun of RPGs has always been switching things out for better things, and it could have been stripped to the basics without taking the basics away as well. Very very easily.
Largely I also think that it became far too linear. ME1 you could land on a planet, drive around picking things up and discovering stuff, and then blasting off into space again. ME2 you scan the planet from orbit, get dropped into a shooting gallery of chest high walls and leave the shooting gallery. The world felt tiny, cramped, and not very much like Mass Effect. Say it all took place on Earth and you could have been playing a bad Bladerunner-esque Gears of War.
I liked ME2, don't get me wrong, one of my favourite games, but it was much less open than the first one, and suffered for it. Besides, it was never a true Role-Playing game because you can't role-play. All they did was make a game with three endings and you pick the one you want most, then make sure all your dialogue points you towards that ending. That's not role-playing. Role-playing would let me completely ignore the galaxy-saving quest and go be a smuggler on the outer rim, or join C-Sec and die old and happy with several kids and never having even heard of Cerberus.
Mass Effect is not a role-playing game, it's a choose-the-role-we've-given-you-from-this-incredibly-narrow-selection game.
the RPG elements in Mass Effect weren't goodD_987 said:
none of the Tech or Biotioc powers did any more damage than two or three pistol shots
all playing as a biotioc or a tech class was just showing off that you didn't have to use the sniper or heavy armor
ME 2 was a major improvement on ME 1 because it gave you a reason to play as a Biotioc or an Engineer or any of the duel classes that are really fun this time around
you know the overload and AI hacking techniques are actually useful this time around
each upgrade in ME 2 means something as apposed to ME 1 where you increase the range of your useless warp technique by 3 inches
What an odd statement to make. You are aware that it is acceptable for games in different series to share gameplay mechanics, right?Glademaster said:
Or would you rather there just be one game that exists in any given genre?
I mean why play Deus Ex when you can just play Call of Duty and imagine it in a dystopian future setting and a good story?
By definition, you are role playing, hence it is a role playing game. That is completely separate from the mechanics of gameplay.
Mass Effect 1 really fell into the staple Bioware game format. Opening act -> Non-Linear act -> Climax. You get the plot established and run some quests in a "Stage 1" of sorts planet or station (Citadel, Taris, Candlekeep etc.). The story persists to a point of revelation where you are told you must go to X amount of different planets in whatever order you choose before the big baddie does to find the plot device(s). Then you go through the next couple linear sequences to push the plot to it's climax and final battle.
Mass Effect 2 followed the same format with less impact in terms of the importance of the plot elements, at least I thought so. Everything appeared extremely dumbed-down possibly to appeal to a broader audience, something I would attribute to pressure from EA to maximize sales.
Bioware hasn't always written the best stories, but they do write engaging dialog and that's really what keeps people coming back.
I'm mostly opposed to the simplifying of controls for the sake of suckering in non-RPG fans to play but that's their prerogative. I enjoyed Dragon Age Origin's gameplay very much and, from the sounds of it, Dragon Age II is also succumbing to the simplifying trend.
Instead of making it accessible for people not used to the gameplay style, they should be encouraging them to broaden their horizons and try something different that's not Gears of War or Call of Duty. That's just my opinion though...
In the end, if you're engrossed in the game's story and it's a well-crafted role playing experience, that's all that really matters.
Mass Effect 1 really fell into the staple Bioware game format. Opening act -> Non-Linear act -> Climax. You get the plot established and run some quests in a "Stage 1" of sorts planet or station (Citadel, Taris, Candlekeep etc.). The story persists to a point of revelation where you are told you must go to X amount of different planets in whatever order you choose before the big baddie does to find the plot device(s). Then you go through the next couple linear sequences to push the plot to it's climax and final battle.
Mass Effect 2 followed the same format with less impact in terms of the importance of the plot elements, at least I thought so. Everything appeared extremely dumbed-down possibly to appeal to a broader audience, something I would attribute to pressure from EA to maximize sales.
Bioware hasn't always written the best stories, but they do write engaging dialog and that's really what keeps people coming back.
I'm mostly opposed to the simplifying of controls for the sake of suckering in non-RPG fans to play but that's their prerogative. I enjoyed Dragon Age Origin's gameplay very much and, from the sounds of it, Dragon Age II is also succumbing to the simplifying trend.
Instead of making it accessible for people not used to the gameplay style, they should be encouraging them to broaden their horizons and try something different that's not Gears of War or Call of Duty. That's just my opinion though...
In the end, if you're engrossed in the game's story and it's a well-crafted role playing experience, that's all that really matters.
Sorry dude, I'm gonna have to take issue with that. Respectfully, of course.D_987 said:
One of the side quests involves deciding whether to destroy a sentient race, or brainwash them into a certain way of thinking - then THAT choice is going to have massive ramifications (if the loading screens are anything to go by) in the third game, no matter what that choice may be. That's an extremely hard decision with no clear "good" or "bad" solution.
Fable is having a good day if promised content actually appears in the finished product. I like Fable for what it is, but it's not in the same league as ME2.
[small]Stephen Fry is epic as Reaver. 'Nuff said.[/small]
Ok while this topic has been done to death I will play along. Can I roleplay? is it a game? my god man it is a roleplaying game!. A good one maybe? It is not bad just not perfect.
one of us. one of us. one of us. one of us. one of us. one of us. one of us. one of us.IBlackKiteI said:
You don't need to worry about offending me if you don't agree with a point.domble said:
True, that is one of the few I overlooked [its been a long time since I played the game] and I admit, having looked back on the games missions, despite my earlier points there're a couple of sections within the game where the options are not Black or White, though I stand by my argument that the vast majority are.
The game as a whole has little to do with it, I'm referencing the moral choices within the games only.
Mass Effect is an RPG, i dont care what those pesky elitists claim about how an RPG has to be all about "numbers" and "statistics".
an RPG (at its core) is just a game where you play a role that the game lets you imprint what you want on it. hence the name "role-playing" in its name. and the fact that it is interactive and allows you to change your character and do things in the world makes it a "game". only if you take away interactivity do you not have a "game" (and there's where JRPs,i wont put the "G" in there anymore as it insults games, come in)
Mass Effect is actually a very GOOD, no EXCELLENT, no DAMN NEAR PERFECT example of an RPG since it allows you to play whatever role you want and play it well. Whenever my Shepherd said something in Mass Effect, it sounded exactly like i wanted it too or exactly as I would have said it. That makes Mass Effect a great Role-Playing Game.
an RPG (at its core) is just a game where you play a role that the game lets you imprint what you want on it. hence the name "role-playing" in its name. and the fact that it is interactive and allows you to change your character and do things in the world makes it a "game". only if you take away interactivity do you not have a "game" (and there's where JRPs,i wont put the "G" in there anymore as it insults games, come in)
Mass Effect is actually a very GOOD, no EXCELLENT, no DAMN NEAR PERFECT example of an RPG since it allows you to play whatever role you want and play it well. Whenever my Shepherd said something in Mass Effect, it sounded exactly like i wanted it too or exactly as I would have said it. That makes Mass Effect a great Role-Playing Game.
I may be remembering the wrong person but didn't I see you in another ME2 thread stating that you got so bored/hating of the game that you quit before the half way point?D_987 said:
at the end of the day I dont see how anyone can say that ME2 is not an RPG game given that it has most of the major aspects of RPG'ness.
Yeah I was just trying to play down the fact that I'm clearly a fanboy lolD_987 said:
I was actually thinking about the moral choices in the Fable games, and I remembered the quest "the guard and the assassin" from the lost chapters, and how that was complex and told in shades of gray. Then I remembered the second game were you had to choose between killing a helpless slave or, well, not killing a helpless slave.
One of the best things, for me at least, was that throughout the ME series there was never a moral choice range quite that jarring. You bet your arse that there were some simple ones (they can't all be philosophic conundrums, after all - see Project Overlord), but at least they all seemed part of the same world, and had context in any given situation. Fable had a lot more freedom because it isn't constrained by absolutely everything needing to fit together seamlessly, but as a result had a lot less discipline in some of the choices it presented.
I meant because of that it's not in the same league (that's right, I expected you to read all of the last paragraph from my thoughts), and how even some of the smaller, more easily readable ethical problems are going to have a lot more impact than Fable could achieve.
Oh, apart from your character growing horns - Fable had ME beaten in the horn department, which I always thought was unacceptable.
Define RPG.
Role Playing Game
Obviously it is a game in which you play a character and follow through the story in the style of your choosing.
Two words: "Commander Shepard"
An inventory screen, buying and trading equipment and leveling are not required to make an RPG, granted they are very common elements of RPG's, but I think Mass Effect 2 should be praised for breaking the mold and stirring up the genre, because as good as games like Dragon Age, and Baldur's Gate are, their once original style has been used over and over again.
And Mass Effect does have leveling, so why was that even mentioned?
Role Playing Game
Obviously it is a game in which you play a character and follow through the story in the style of your choosing.
Two words: "Commander Shepard"
An inventory screen, buying and trading equipment and leveling are not required to make an RPG, granted they are very common elements of RPG's, but I think Mass Effect 2 should be praised for breaking the mold and stirring up the genre, because as good as games like Dragon Age, and Baldur's Gate are, their once original style has been used over and over again.
And Mass Effect does have leveling, so why was that even mentioned?
The reason people like to play RPGs is because it gives a lot of depth to the gameplay and greatly increases replay value by allowing you to play through multiple times with a new take on combat. There is only 1 way to play Mass Effect 2, shooting everything.