Master Racier

[Rastrelly]

PC Master Race is master not because of FPS. It's master because of all other stuff that is usually gets ignored in PC vs consoles argument. Nice try, though.

 

[nyysjan]

I can't (usually) tell the difference between 30 and 60 fps (unless they are played side by side, and possibly not even then).
That said, 60 fps is less likely to have a sudden drop to 20fps or below (which i would notice).

 

[Renegrade]

FPS sensitivity of the eye is a complex issue (BiH-Kira's link goes over some of the issues briefly) - there really isn't a practical upper end to fps sensitivity.

I scribbled up a 3D game engine back in the late 90s, and since I have zero art skills, I never bothered to texture anything (my models were in fact placeholders ripped from the original Homeworld). This made it quite fast though - it could effortlessly put out 600+ fps if I turned off vsync. One of my CRT monitors of the time could do upto 200hz at 640x480*, and I could definitely mark differences between 60, 120, and 200fps. Panning the view around at a good rate or watching high speed objects zoom by had the biggest effect. Mind you, going from 120 to 200fps wasn't quite as big as a jump as 60 to 120, which isn't quite as big of a jump as from 30 to 60, so there's definitely a diminishing return aspect to this.

Note that a Canon 580ex flash has a flash duration that's estimated to be about 1/35000s at it's lowest setting, and the eye can definitely see that, so the upper limit to perception, under ideal (or is that worst-case?) conditions is probably very, very high. (such as the 'mouse pointer' thing mentioned above - I bet someone could tell the difference between a 500hz display and 1000hz display using that test, assuming one could find something that fast).

Mind you, this all begs the question of whether or not the typical modern LCD (or "LED" display, which is usually just an LCD with LEDs for backlighting instead of a cold cathode fluorescent tube) will be able to keep up with such speeds. The typical '1ms' monitor is really more like 8-12ms, capping actual updates to 80-125hz. Am I going to need an OLED display, given that CRTs (and allegedly DLP and Plasma displays) are "passe"?

* - this was pretty much the monitor's only good point. It was otherwise junk - tiny 14-inch screen, poor refresh at high resolution, extremely round tube. The others were larger, had better refresh at higher resolutions, but they tended to cap the lowest resolutions to arbitrary frequencies - one was 100hz, and the other, 120hz.

 

[sageoftruth]

So, what are you if you have all the best equipment, but only because you're friends with someone who knows computers?

 

[insanelich]

The master race has some snazzy clothing. Also, can the human eye notice the difference between 60 and 120 fps? I know there's a cap before it becomes redundant to increase fps, but I forget

I want a 480fps screen so I can comfortably do 3D.

Of course, two 240fps screens, one for each eye, is vastly saner.

 

[Birdnest]

Note that a Canon 580ex flash has a flash duration that's estimated to be about 1/35000s at it's lowest setting, and the eye can definitely see that, so the upper limit to perception, under ideal (or is that worst-case?) conditions is probably very, very high.

This sadly doesn't mean much regarding the "framerate" of the eyes. Lets say you have a detector resolving only 1 Hz ("1 fps"). It would still detect that there was a flash, but it wouldn't know when it was within the second it measured. In order to judge the time resolution you'd need to make two short flashes and find the minimum time between the flashes where the eyes still perceive two separate flashes.

Hah I've pretty much always been a PC peasant! While it makes for a humorous comic though while some PC gamers like to rag on console gamers, while there can certainly be the dick measuring contest turning on fellow PC gamers for being under spec'd generally isn't a thing (from what I've seen at least)... unless maybe someone is trying to game on a laptop.

I am happily running Dragon Age Inquisiton at 1280x720 on my Laptop (Geforce GT640M) and most of my school friends bring laptops to our LAN parties

Okay... Not happily... It DOES suffer from it. A lot. But currently a stationary rig would be pretty useless to me.

Technically, no. Human eyes don't have a limit.

The processing time of our neurons might start lagging at some point, becoming unnoticable.

That makes me wonder. I'm sure that there is some after-glow effect involved due to chemical processes taking some time. At least there is some uncertainty in the detection time due to quantum limits. My arguments are clearly nitpicking though; The quantum stuff is probably far beyond the kHz regime

I've heard a number of people involved in graphics saying that motion blur at 30fps looks better than no blur at 60fps. Can't say I have enough experience to evaluate it one way or the other, but it deals with the issue of gaps between objects from one frame to the next, which is a large part of what our brains don't like about low frame rates.

One thing worth noting, motion blur in movies is usually better implemented than in games. Movies don't have to work within realtime restraints, and can be a lot more accurate. Games tend to use approximations, so the reason why motion blur work as well in games could very well be because it actually doesn't look as good

My main issue with motion blur in games is that it comes at the cost of an FPS reduction. Especially with weaker hardware, and considering that lowered FPS translates into increased input lag, when already running below 30 fps any filter that can be removed will be removed, if it doesn't justify the performance impact. For me at least, motion blur doesn't.

I found though, that controllers are much more forgiving regarding input lag and by extension framerate, so maybe it works better for console games.

I still qualify for master race specs, yada, yada!

You do realize that the term "master race" was originally meant ironically, referencing Nazi terminology on purpose? There's a reason for the uniforms in this comic

 

[NPC009]

So, what are you if you have all the best equipment, but only because you're friends with someone who knows computers?

A trophee wife. Your worth is in being paraded around together with your system.

So, uh, anyone want to start an underground resistance or something? Maybe flood the market with charming faux retro games that run on toasters until there is no good game left to show off overpowered hardware?

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

So, uh, anyone want to start an underground resistance or something? Maybe flood the market with charming faux retro games that run on toasters until there is no good game left to show off overpowered hardware?

Looks like League of Legends qualifies

Spoiler

EDIT:

Heh. I remember doing a test a little while back on a friend who had a high end PC. I could tell the difference between 30 and 60 FPS, but guessed which one was the 60 FPS only slightly better than chance. Could not notice any difference above that.

But then, I also annoyed my wife by pointing out how much clearer her new Retina iPad was in comparison to the previous generation non-Retina model she also owned. She frostily pointed out that I was holding the *old* iPad.

Of course, sound is a different matter... Wait, no it isn't. My friend in university wanted to repossess the older high-ish end stereo he sold me (we were room mates and he was an audio-phile) when he walked into my room, and realized that the speaker wire had fallen out of one of my speakers. I'd been playing in mono for weeks and hadn't noticed.

Moral of the story, not all of us notice lower resolutions/FPS. I had great fun tormenting my brother-in-law by playing SD on our HD TV (although I did notice a difference when we finally got an HD signal.)

Reminds me of tasting high quality wine. Tell someone that they're drinking a $300 bottle (I don't drink wine, is that expensive?) and they'll tell you how it has a much richer taste than the $30 crap (I don't drink wine, is that inexpensive?) they're actually drinking.

 

[The White Hunter]

The master race has some snazzy clothing. Also, can the human eye notice the difference between 60 and 120 fps? I know there's a cap before it becomes redundant to increase fps, but I forget

Yes it can.

We don't see in FPS, there's no real cap. Eventually you'll stop noticing big differences one will just be a bit nicer animation wise or something I guess.

But yeah, 120 is definately noticable, though the best thing I've upgraded to in the last 5 years has been Gsync.

 

[Morti]

Reminds me of tasting high quality wine. Tell someone that they're drinking a $300 bottle (I don't drink wine, is that expensive?) and they'll tell you how it has a much richer taste than the $30 crap (I don't drink wine, is that inexpensive?) they're actually drinking.

Don't know how prices transfer across the pond, but in UK ?30 is your gullible idiot range (?300 is by no means the most idiotic though).

EDIT

Apparently theEscapist doesn't like Pound Sterling. Damn philistines.

 

[The White Hunter]

Reminds me of tasting high quality wine. Tell someone that they're drinking a $300 bottle (I don't drink wine, is that expensive?) and they'll tell you how it has a much richer taste than the $30 crap (I don't drink wine, is that inexpensive?) they're actually drinking.

Don't know how prices transfer across the pond, but in UK ?30 is your gullible idiot range (?300 is by no means the most idiotic though).

EDIT

Apparently theEscapist doesn't like Pound Sterling. Damn philistines.

I think you've misquoted me for the guy above me man

 

[Morti]

I think you've misquoted me for the guy above me man

I do believe I have, how'd that happen..?

Snip

See above

 

[The White Hunter]

I think you've misquoted me for the guy above me man

I do believe I have, how'd that happen..?

Snip

See above

Clicked the quote thing at the top of my post thinking it waas at the bottom of his post, where it was once upon a time

 

[Morti]

Clicked the quote thing at the top of my post thinking it waas at the bottom of his post, where it was once upon a time

Hmm, I did do that, but I could swear I deleted all of the mistake... ah well.

 

[TotalerKrieger]

...and when the PS5 and next-gen Xbox comes out, I bet the vast majority of console gamers will suddenly dismiss 30 FPS and 1080p as being an outdated standard and could never even think of tolerating anything lower than 4K/60FPS. Oh look, you dropped your fully functioning PS3 and iPhone 4 in the trash...

 

[Fijiman]

Glad to see that I'm not the only one who thinks Nazis when they hear PC master race.

Haha, the "wars." The only way to win is not to be a part of it.

Spoiler: I still keep thinking about this vid. NSFW

<youtube=aDMsGl_XxTk>

Wonderful art as always.

I agree completely with everything about this post.

 

[insanelich]

...and when the PS5 and next-gen Xbox comes out, I bet the vast majority of console gamers will suddenly dismiss 30 FPS and 1080p as being an outdated standard and could never even think of tolerating anything lower than 4K/60FPS. Oh look, you dropped your fully functioning PS3 and iPhone 4 in the trash...

The trash being where an iPhone 4 belongs.

It wasn't a good device to begin with, and by now it's so outdated you might as well replace it with a $20 phone and be better off.

 

[Tony2077]

So... I'm a PC Master Peasant?

Hardly. Bottom line nobody cares unless you go full retard...like a console peasant.

so you're a retard if you play on consoles?