I'm 50/50, I doubt clarifications and epilogues will solve the general absurdiess of the ending but then again I don't see how it could possibly get worse.LiberalSquirrel said:
ME3 extended cut. Optimistic?
- Thread starter Lithan
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You should be happy that you got even that. Honestly, some of the arguments seemed kind of pathetic, in Bioware's position I probably would have done very little about it. I'd let some of the fans be immature and stop buying games, the vast majority will come to their senses and buy Bioware's next game (whether they're still making Mass Effect or not is of no interest to me, however).ChrisRedfield92 said:
I should be very happy I get someone to explain to me why their shit stinks? Right.....Squidbulb said:
If complete disregard for plot consistency, characters, themes, and logic is a pathetic argument to you then... get some standards.
You don't honestly think that the people who hate the ending are in the minority? Do you?
What's with the attitude that people should be glad they get anything at all after spending 60 dollars? I spent money, I expect quality, not to be kicked in the teeth at the end and then get told to buy future dlc.
Well, I'll admit that I support the Indoctrination Theory (I thought of it myself before I even realized that it was a running theory on the internet, since I had been avoiding anything discussion ME3 in an attempt to avoid spoilers) so I'm hoping that the "clarifications and epilogues" are going to come out in support of said theory. But, hey, I'm holding out hope because... well, Bioware has proven repeatedly that they have some talented writers on their staff. You only have to look at the rest of the series to know that. They've been carrying themes and arcs throughout an entire trilogy, which isn't as easy as it seems, and come out with some rather remarkable games.ChrisRedfield92 said:
This ending was a misstep, sure, but I don't think it was a fatal one. And now they're trying to fix it. So, if nothing else, they can be applauded for that: they're listening to their fans and attempting to extend some sort of an olive branch. There's absolutely zero obligation on their end to do anything. They finished a game, they shipped it, and people purchased it. They didn't have to do anything to the ending if they didn't want to. And it'd be a horrible business decision to extend that metaphorical olive branch and then make that attempted peace-making into a further continuation of everything the fans have been raging about.
And, on a less optimistic note... er, yeah. It'd be hard to actually go someplace worse that that ending.
I believed in the IT too; but it's not something to praise; if the ending is taken at face value then it's plain bad, if it's the IT, then they gave us an unfinished game.LiberalSquirrel said:
Either way it's not a busiess practice that companies should engage with.
The ending to me was a massive fuck up. MASSIVE.
Any writer will tell you that an ending is supposed to be satisfying, no matter if you want it to be dark, bittersweet, triumphant or other; more so if it's an ending to a character based space opera trilogy; The build up and the ending is the one thing they really needed to get right and they completely struck out.
Some fans?Squidbulb said:
They already lost "some" fans from DA2, now "some" fans from ME3. If you think it wasn't a lot, you should've seen the stock values for EA week after the EU release. They spiked high after initial sales, and plummeted to pre-release levels. That pretty much tells me that there was a LOT of negative input from customers returning games and canceling pre-orders thanks to word-of-mouth.
Exactly, I don't know if this is going to kill Bioware, but it's definately going in the wrong direction.Abedeus said:
It's a shame really. Up until the last 5 to 10 minutes the game was imperfect but pretty damn fantastic.
Yes and no, in my opinion. I wouldn't say that if the IT is true, they gave us an unfinished game: they could have just given us a game that they thought we would read a certain way (as in, they thought we should have come up with the IT with the evidence we were presented) and it didn't quite catch on as it was supposed to. There's a lot of evidence for the IT with the game we have, and perhaps that was what they intended- that we come up with the IT, which is meant to be canon without being stated outright. There's plenty of other works that heavily imply an ending without giving any definitive answer one way or another. Think Inception, for instance. Not that I'm saying that this ending was comparable to Inception's in any way, shape, or form. I'm just saying that an ending like that (ambiguous, implied to be a certain way, left for the fans to make up their minds) might have been what they were shooting for. They stumbled a bit, sure. Endings like that need to have slightly more explicit evidence then what we were presented in ME3. But I wouldn't go so far as to say it was an unfinished game.ChrisRedfield92 said:
But then, we're getting rather off-topic. Feel free to message me if you want to continue this little debate, though.
Remember what happened to Warhammer Online? 1 million pre-orders, huge playerbase for over a month... And it would've been much, MUCH better if EA just let them do the beta for two damn months more. But EA doesn't want long-term profits, they want quick cash-in form initial subscriptions.ChrisRedfield92 said:
And remember companies that were killed by EA before - Westwood, Pandemic Studios, Bullfrog.
Don't quote me on this but I believe they originally had a diferent ending but once that one got leaked, they swiftly changed to the one we have now in an attempt to avoid spoilers being leaked.
Yes, back when it was used in Deus Ex. This time... not so much.psicat said:
According to the Better Business Bureau:Abedeus said:
We were promised Chronotrigger, we got Duke Nukem Forever by way of an Apple Store.
Or
The ME Cake is a Lie.
Optimistic? Nope. It'd be more precise to say I don't really give a crap, because it was plainly obvious that such a massive undertaking, across three games, was going to end with some kind of disappointment.
I figure talks at BioWare's offices went a little like this, across the three games' production time...
Mass Effect: "Oh, wow! What an awesome idea! A storyline that unfolds across three games and is significantly altered by some of the player's choices! Holy shit, this feels almost emergent! Hold me, Casey, I think I'm in love with the design doc!"
Mass Effect 2: "So... We've got to account for all the major Paragon/Renegade path differences, all the gender differences; and we have to throw in a few returning faces for this to feel meaningful - which means we have to consider the permutations we stuck in place for even those completely ancillary characters... Throw all the new decisions, new gender considerations, new romance options and, well, I'd say we're looking at a pretty huge undertaking... I'm a little scared, Casey, but still optimistic."
Mass Effect 3: "WE WON'T MAKE IT, CASEY, DO YOU HEAR ME?! WE CAN'T MAKE IT!! TELL THE PUBLIC RELATIONS GOONS AND THE FORUM ADMINS TO SHUT UP, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! TELL THEM TO SHUT THE HELL UP!
Too many variables! Too many variables! TOO MANY VARIABLES!"
Then I suspect someone came in, slapped the panicking staffer across the face a few times like any self-respecting old-timey chap, and said something along the lines of "Get a hold of yourself, man; we'll get through this! We'll virtually compress everything the player's done across three arbitrary ending possibilities and slap some colors on it! It's worked for Eidos Montreal, it's going to work for us!"
So, honestly, the epilogue DLC feels like a grudging admission that they fucked up. It was a wonderful idea in practice, but I keep thinking they should've stuck to two games, not three. Being a fatalist, though, and knowing how fans do not own their favorite properties despite how much they'd like to think they do - the idea of them supporting their own work and only releasing a Band-Aid to cover a gaping wound doesn't surprise me.
It's BioWare's work, therefore it's BioWare's choice.
Besides, let's consider some weird, alternate-universe-type scenario where the Retake Mass Effect crowd would have managed to convinced BioWare to completely alter the ending. They might as well have declared Mass Effect 3 non-canon, gone back to the drawing board and spent a few more years developing an entirely different game you still would've had to pay full price for. I highly doubt they would've been able to alter the ending in any significant capacity AND release that as some kind of DLC or patch.
"Oh, sure, we screwed up! Here you go, a brand new ending! Ten gigabytes of bandwidth, please!"
People would have raged at that, too.
Captcha: exceedingly well read
Why thank you, milord Inglip; how considerate of you. *tips hat and adjusts monocle*
I figure talks at BioWare's offices went a little like this, across the three games' production time...
Mass Effect: "Oh, wow! What an awesome idea! A storyline that unfolds across three games and is significantly altered by some of the player's choices! Holy shit, this feels almost emergent! Hold me, Casey, I think I'm in love with the design doc!"
Mass Effect 2: "So... We've got to account for all the major Paragon/Renegade path differences, all the gender differences; and we have to throw in a few returning faces for this to feel meaningful - which means we have to consider the permutations we stuck in place for even those completely ancillary characters... Throw all the new decisions, new gender considerations, new romance options and, well, I'd say we're looking at a pretty huge undertaking... I'm a little scared, Casey, but still optimistic."
Mass Effect 3: "WE WON'T MAKE IT, CASEY, DO YOU HEAR ME?! WE CAN'T MAKE IT!! TELL THE PUBLIC RELATIONS GOONS AND THE FORUM ADMINS TO SHUT UP, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! TELL THEM TO SHUT THE HELL UP!
Too many variables! Too many variables! TOO MANY VARIABLES!"
Then I suspect someone came in, slapped the panicking staffer across the face a few times like any self-respecting old-timey chap, and said something along the lines of "Get a hold of yourself, man; we'll get through this! We'll virtually compress everything the player's done across three arbitrary ending possibilities and slap some colors on it! It's worked for Eidos Montreal, it's going to work for us!"
So, honestly, the epilogue DLC feels like a grudging admission that they fucked up. It was a wonderful idea in practice, but I keep thinking they should've stuck to two games, not three. Being a fatalist, though, and knowing how fans do not own their favorite properties despite how much they'd like to think they do - the idea of them supporting their own work and only releasing a Band-Aid to cover a gaping wound doesn't surprise me.
It's BioWare's work, therefore it's BioWare's choice.
Besides, let's consider some weird, alternate-universe-type scenario where the Retake Mass Effect crowd would have managed to convinced BioWare to completely alter the ending. They might as well have declared Mass Effect 3 non-canon, gone back to the drawing board and spent a few more years developing an entirely different game you still would've had to pay full price for. I highly doubt they would've been able to alter the ending in any significant capacity AND release that as some kind of DLC or patch.
"Oh, sure, we screwed up! Here you go, a brand new ending! Ten gigabytes of bandwidth, please!"
People would have raged at that, too.
Captcha: exceedingly well read
Why thank you, milord Inglip; how considerate of you. *tips hat and adjusts monocle*
If the horse talks, it isn't dead, keep bashing it.Caramel Frappe said:... I could make a huge post saying that I agree with you,
but this topic has came up so many times it would feel like I am beating a dead horse-Well that covers it. Thanks mate!Rawne1980 said:Just because words are no longer enough.....
OT: No matter how you see the ending, whether you're supporting a petition about changing the ending or having neutral feelings overall, Bioware doesn't care. They defend the ending with "It's art, you must accept that." Yet art always get criticism in order to approve and even Jim noticed this and made a video about how he understands now on why fans are so outraged. Still, Bioware doesn't care. Heck they shut their forums/threads on everyone and I don't mean the irrational fans. It saddens me when a really once loved company treats their fans so poorly and though I am grateful that they're giving us 2 free DLCs, I fear the one to explain the ending is just going to make matters worse.
I'm curious to see what they have in mind. That's about it. I'm just glad they're sticking to their guns on this; had they out and out changed the ending not even a month after the game dropped, I would've lost more than a little respect for them.
Anyway, specific details aside in terms of "closure" (eh, my mind works weird like that - what's that about crash landing on a foreign planet? oh, yeah... right, whatever), just about everything involving the Reapers was solved. My FemShep pressed some buttons, shot her gun a few times, shit got fucked up. End of story, nothing more to see here.
If anyone needs clarification on anything I said (pun not intended, seriously), you know what to do...
Anyway, specific details aside in terms of "closure" (eh, my mind works weird like that - what's that about crash landing on a foreign planet? oh, yeah... right, whatever), just about everything involving the Reapers was solved. My FemShep pressed some buttons, shot her gun a few times, shit got fucked up. End of story, nothing more to see here.
If anyone needs clarification on anything I said (pun not intended, seriously), you know what to do...
This highlights almost everything that's wrong with the ending in great detail.
This discusses the Extended Cut DLC and why it's a bad idea. BioWare is approaching this from the wrong angle. Instead of providing additional context and clarity, they need to change the ending.
This discusses the Extended Cut DLC and why it's a bad idea. BioWare is approaching this from the wrong angle. Instead of providing additional context and clarity, they need to change the ending.
amaranth_dru said:
I couldn't give two shits about it having EA on it. D3 has EA on it doesn't it? Other than that they make a shitload of sports titles EA SPORTS ITS IN THE GAME! from my youth and beyond those things I have zero opinion on EA. So for me at least it has absolutely NOTHING to do with EA's involvement with the title. It has to do with the ending being poorly done. You sir, are quite simply wrong.
Oh and I noticed someone pointed out that ME2 had a LOT of endings (minor differences like who lived and died... stuff like that) up to and including everyone but Shep dies. You had what 12 squadmembers with the DLCs? Somewhere around there. Now obviously this is being a bit of a dick, but doesn't that make there a ballpark of around 4000 endings? Now to be a real dick, Shep can die too. Joker is the only guaranteed survivor in the end.
No, the ending didn't need clarification. It needed an ending that respected the themes, characters and choices of the trilogy.