ME3: .....gay romance......why Kaiden and not Ashly?

[Vault101]

[snip.

sorry..henti

I dont mean to imply Anime is for dirty weirdos

I jsut feel like Liara is supsoed to apeal in a certain way (which is obviously subjective) so I dont feel righ about roamncing her

but as I (and you) said I think she becomes a better charachter later on

 

[Dasick]

To be honest, Ashely's romance doesn't make sense to me for either gender.

Read this letter:
From: Ashley Williams ([email protected])
Sent: June 17, 2183 22:03 UT
To: Sarah Williams ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Hey sis

James left today. He's been reassigned to one of the new Rapid Response Bases out in the Kepler Verge. Lucky bastard. It's like the ancient west out there ? pirates and slavers coming out of the Terminus Systems all the time. He gets to play the cavalry, riding out in frigates any time someone's house gets burned down.

I made some speech about how he was a valuable asset to the squad and he better make us look good out there, blah blah. I suck at speeches. I was cribbing from something I read back in history class. I don't think anyone noticed.

I'm going to miss him. Don't tell anyone.

So you think James is cute, eh? Yeah, well, when you said I should "go for him" ? not gonna happen, kiddo. See, we have rules about "fraternization". You don't do The Deed with your fellow troops, especially if they're under you in rank. There's all sorts of problems that can happen when two people in the same unit get together.

Let's say your unit is in a tight spot. Some bug-eyed aliens are going to overrun the galaxy. They eat babies, smell bad, and don't have elbows. Nasty. You're told to guard the rear. To let everyone else escape, someone is ordered "hold this spot until we're gone." Someone has to be left behind. You think it's going to be someone you're sleeping with?

I've served with these guys for eight months now. Yeah, some of them make me feel tingly (and yeah, James was kinda scruffy-cute). I hope I never have to decide who lives and who dies. But if I have to, my decision can't be muddled up by magic-sparkly-hearts-and-stars feelings.

Anyways, I'm gonna knock off here. I've got dog watch in a few hours. Want to get a shower and a meal before then. Talk to you tomorrow.

- Ash

This message originated from an Alliance military network. It has been censored at transmission source for security purposes. Any reply may be read by military authorities.

Ashley, despite having a more sensitive side, is a well disciplined soldier. It makes no sense to her character that she would abandon her principles right when it matters most. The entire romance seems shoe-horned to me.

And just because the lesbian Ashley options were recorded for ME1 doesn't mean it wouldn't have been out of place. There is a reason they weren't used.

Also, people saying that Ash is a xenophobe:

That being said, Ashley isn't xenophobic. She dismisses Terra Firma as a group of xenophobic "jackals" who have replaced the original noble aims of the party with anti-alien paranoia. Also, even though she will not hesitate to shoot Wrex if she believes he presents a threat to Shepard on Virmire, she happily volunteers to go with Captain Kirrahe's team and works well with the salarians, respecting their tenacity and skill.


Regarding Liara:

Liara is the best romance option, especially with the Shadow broker DLC, which added quite a bit to the romance in ME2. If she was written to be that, then why should I care for someone else in the same way. She works with all shepards.

Personally, I was put off by Liara in the first game. You could say that my problem with her is that she works a bit too well with Shepard. I mean, she's a Socially Awkward Nerdy Girl, who also happens to belong to the race of Hot Blue Alien Chicks, and her race reproduces through Lesbian Sex (yeah I know, I know, they don't care for gender, but given the previous factors I can't help but think that this is what Bioware was going for).

I found her character design to be very manipulative, and she comes across as a stalker, the way she desires Shepard. Also, she does the Vulcan Mind Melt thing to you twice, regardless of what you say. isn't that how her species have sex?

 

[Vault101]

Religion and homosexuality don't go together.

Although that said I'm 100% okay with Bioware not homogenizing character sexuality just because their fanbase is fully of creepy shippers.

I think thats a little unfair

 

[Vault101]

To be honest, Ashely's romance doesn't make sense to me for either gender.

Read this letter:
From: Ashley Williams ([email protected])
Sent: June 17, 2183 22:03 UT
To: Sarah Williams ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Hey sis

James left today. He's been reassigned to one of the new Rapid Response Bases out in the Kepler Verge. Lucky bastard. It's like the ancient west out there ? pirates and slavers coming out of the Terminus Systems all the time. He gets to play the cavalry, riding out in frigates any time someone's house gets burned down.

I made some speech about how he was a valuable asset to the squad and he better make us look good out there, blah blah. I suck at speeches. I was cribbing from something I read back in history class. I don't think anyone noticed.

I'm going to miss him. Don't tell anyone.

So you think James is cute, eh? Yeah, well, when you said I should "go for him" ? not gonna happen, kiddo. See, we have rules about "fraternization". You don't do The Deed with your fellow troops, especially if they're under you in rank. There's all sorts of problems that can happen when two people in the same unit get together.

Let's say your unit is in a tight spot. Some bug-eyed aliens are going to overrun the galaxy. They eat babies, smell bad, and don't have elbows. Nasty. You're told to guard the rear. To let everyone else escape, someone is ordered "hold this spot until we're gone." Someone has to be left behind. You think it's going to be someone you're sleeping with?

I've served with these guys for eight months now. Yeah, some of them make me feel tingly (and yeah, James was kinda scruffy-cute). I hope I never have to decide who lives and who dies. But if I have to, my decision can't be muddled up by magic-sparkly-hearts-and-stars feelings.

Anyways, I'm gonna knock off here. I've got dog watch in a few hours. Want to get a shower and a meal before then. Talk to you tomorrow.

- Ash

This message originated from an Alliance military network. It has been censored at transmission source for security purposes. Any reply may be read by military authorities.

Ashley, despite having a more sensitive side, is a well disciplined soldier. It makes no sense to her character that she would abandon her principles right when it matters most. The entire romance seems shoe-horned to me.

And just because the lesbian Ashley options were recorded for ME1 doesn't mean it wouldn't have been out of place. There is a reason they weren't used.

Also, people saying that Ash is a xenophobe:

That being said, Ashley isn't xenophobic. She dismisses Terra Firma as a group of xenophobic "jackals" who have replaced the original noble aims of the party with anti-alien paranoia. Also, even though she will not hesitate to shoot Wrex if she believes he presents a threat to Shepard on Virmire, she happily volunteers to go with Captain Kirrahe's team and works well with the salarians, respecting their tenacity and skill.

tingly? jesus.....

does that email happen if ash did roamnce shepard? if so then mabye she knows its wrong...and feels bad about it

I think it was more due to time than anything..I mean some people dont particually like the romances at all

 

[burningdragoon]

Hate to break it to you, but Ashley has been dead since Mass Effect 1. You cant romance a corpse.

Love knows no bounds!!

 

[JediMB]

Jack is very likeable to me, so I would like to romance her, but I'm not going to play maleshep just for that.

I did.

I heard kaiden was suppose to gay option for male Shepard since the first game but they took it out and now they putting it back in.

This is actually a rumor based on that there's dialogue in the game files for a relationship between male Shepard and Kaidan, but as it turned out it was simply a case of every line of Shepard's dialogue being recorded by both voice actors.

Another consequence of that is that there's a line of dialogue where male Shepard refers to himself as a woman. (Also, romance dialogue between female Shepard and Ashley.)

 

[Dasick]

but as it turned out it was simply a case of every line of Shepard's dialogue being recorded by both voice actors.

Another consequence of that is that there's a line of dialogue where male Shepard refers to himself as a woman. (Also, romance dialogue between female Shepard and Ashley.)

That seems like a waste of time and money. I mean, how do you even get a male voice actor to reference to himself as female and not notice how useless it is?

does that email happen if ash did roamnce shepard? if so then mabye she knows its wrong...and feels bad about it

The email has been composed before you even meet Ash, while she is on Eden Prime.

Maybe she does break her rules, but this is just weak. What does it say about her character that she just can't control herself around Shepard? Why is that never mentioned again? It would have been good characterization if she felt guilty that Kaiden died on Virmirie because she realises Shep has feelings for her.

As far as I'm concerned they just did it because they need to have a love interest in their movie game.

 

[NinjaDeathSlap]

Maybe Ash's voice actor just didn't want to do gay scene's, just like Tali's

 

[Appleshampoo]

If Femshep could nail Ashley I'd probably never leave my computer chair.

Fraps it and re-play it!

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

Not everyone in the universe is bi. I don't think it has anything to do with Ash being religious, Ash just doesn't dig chicks. She just happens to be hetrosexual.

Besides there are plenty of female-female romance options but without Kaiden there is only one male-male one.

 

[Vivi22]

and I totally see femshep and ash together...I mean it was actually originally intended to be an option wasnt it?

ME1

[i/] Shepard: "dismissed..cheif"
Ashley: "Ma'm" [/i] <- serously I could always hear more than freindlyness there

anyway my point here is that..do you too think its a bit odd? is it perhaps because of ashleys religion? because they watnted to avoid a "everyone bi in the future!" scenario

You know, I'm glad I'm not the only one to wonder this. When I played ME1 a few years back it was as femshep and I ended up pursuing Ashley because I liked the character. She was someone I could see my Shepard wanting to pursue a relationship with so I did. I also knew at that point that you could have a homosexual relationship with Kaiden so I assumed it was possible with her too. And the thing is, the dialogue, tone of voice, everything indicated to me that their relationship was gradually becoming more intimate as the game went on and I thought it was pretty well done.

Then I found out it wasn't possible and realized that in that case the dialogue was pretty poorly handled. In fact, I wondered if much of it was simply recycled from a male Shepard play through which would account for the misleading tone. Honestly that always bothered me, and not just because she wasn't a romance option, but because it never explicitly tells you in game that I recall. I actually would have been fine if I could have made a move and been rejected since at least I'd know.

 

[Kahunaburger]

Religion and homosexuality don't go together.

Although that said I'm 100% okay with Bioware not homogenizing character sexuality just because their fanbase is fully of creepy shippers.

I think thats a little unfair

Sorry, auto-correct. I meant to put "full of creepy shippers," but apparently my phone has an even lower opinion of Bioware and their fanbase than I do.

No, the whole "beauty contest" thing. How much more can they miss the point of what makes FemShep a breath of fresh air?

I would honestly point to Skyrim as an even better example. While I'm quite sure there are plenty of creepy mods out there already, the one that really raised an eyebrow was the "clean faces" one. It made perfect sense that people who lived in Skyrim would be filthy and yet one of the first things modders did was create something that violated what was reasonable in the universe to suit particular (I'd guess largely sexual) tastes. Hell, every Bethesda game has a modding community that works tirelessly to create content so that one can customize their characters and the vast majority of this content, from body meshes to skins to armor (most of the time, armor is firmly encased in quotes) is designed for females.

In spite of claims to the contrary, the modding community and the popularity of downloads for any of a dozen games shows an undeniable trend of turning the player characters into little more than dress up dolls. While I'm sure there are many arguments as to why, I think what it often comes down to is simply that people are using the PC as a surrogate relationship. And unlike normal people, the character in a video game is easily mutable in many cases.

Yeah, the whole "turn Dovakiin/Nerevarine/etc. into an anime chick with a boob job" thing in the TES modding community seriously annoys me. I mean, it's one of the few series of games that (some unfortunate choices with gender/race impacts on stats aside) actually bothers to include both male and female characters that are generally taken equally seriously by the developers, and gets that looking like they fit the setting is more important for characters than looking attractive.

 

[Dasick]

(some unfortunate choices with gender/race impacts on stats aside)

Care to elaborate? I actually thought those were clever ways of making the race/gender affect your character, but at the same time it doesn't define your character.

 

[Kahunaburger]

(some unfortunate choices with gender/race impacts on stats aside)

Care to elaborate? I actually thought those were clever ways of making the race/gender affect your character, but at the same time it doesn't define your character.

It is a little weird how playing as a dark-skinned human means you get lower mental stats but are more athletic. They ditched it for Skyrim, apparently, which is pretty welcome.

 

[Melon Hunter]

To be honest, Ashely's romance doesn't make sense to me for either gender.

Read this letter:
From: Ashley Williams ([email protected])
Sent: June 17, 2183 22:03 UT
To: Sarah Williams ([email protected])
Subject: Re: Hey sis

James left today. He's been reassigned to one of the new Rapid Response Bases out in the Kepler Verge. Lucky bastard. It's like the ancient west out there ? pirates and slavers coming out of the Terminus Systems all the time. He gets to play the cavalry, riding out in frigates any time someone's house gets burned down.

I made some speech about how he was a valuable asset to the squad and he better make us look good out there, blah blah. I suck at speeches. I was cribbing from something I read back in history class. I don't think anyone noticed.

I'm going to miss him. Don't tell anyone.

So you think James is cute, eh? Yeah, well, when you said I should "go for him" ? not gonna happen, kiddo. See, we have rules about "fraternization". You don't do The Deed with your fellow troops, especially if they're under you in rank. There's all sorts of problems that can happen when two people in the same unit get together.

Let's say your unit is in a tight spot. Some bug-eyed aliens are going to overrun the galaxy. They eat babies, smell bad, and don't have elbows. Nasty. You're told to guard the rear. To let everyone else escape, someone is ordered "hold this spot until we're gone." Someone has to be left behind. You think it's going to be someone you're sleeping with?

I've served with these guys for eight months now. Yeah, some of them make me feel tingly (and yeah, James was kinda scruffy-cute). I hope I never have to decide who lives and who dies. But if I have to, my decision can't be muddled up by magic-sparkly-hearts-and-stars feelings.

Anyways, I'm gonna knock off here. I've got dog watch in a few hours. Want to get a shower and a meal before then. Talk to you tomorrow.

- Ash

This message originated from an Alliance military network. It has been censored at transmission source for security purposes. Any reply may be read by military authorities.

Ashley, despite having a more sensitive side, is a well disciplined soldier. It makes no sense to her character that she would abandon her principles right when it matters most. The entire romance seems shoe-horned to me.

And just because the lesbian Ashley options were recorded for ME1 doesn't mean it wouldn't have been out of place. There is a reason they weren't used.

Also, people saying that Ash is a xenophobe:

That being said, Ashley isn't xenophobic. She dismisses Terra Firma as a group of xenophobic "jackals" who have replaced the original noble aims of the party with anti-alien paranoia. Also, even though she will not hesitate to shoot Wrex if she believes he presents a threat to Shepard on Virmire, she happily volunteers to go with Captain Kirrahe's team and works well with the salarians, respecting their tenacity and skill.


Regarding Liara:

Liara is the best romance option, especially with the Shadow broker DLC, which added quite a bit to the romance in ME2. If she was written to be that, then why should I care for someone else in the same way. She works with all shepards.

Personally, I was put off by Liara in the first game. You could say that my problem with her is that she works a bit too well with Shepard. I mean, she's a Socially Awkward Nerdy Girl, who also happens to belong to the race of Hot Blue Alien Chicks, and her race reproduces through Lesbian Sex (yeah I know, I know, they don't care for gender, but given the previous factors I can't help but think that this is what Bioware was going for).

I found her character design to be very manipulative, and she comes across as a stalker, the way she desires Shepard. Also, she does the Vulcan Mind Melt thing to you twice, regardless of what you say. isn't that how her species have sex?

I think the difference in the situation described in that e-mail and Mass Effect's plot is that Shepard is, first and foremost, a Spectre. Sure, both Shepard and Ashely are serving in the Alliance Navy, and the Normandy is an Alliance ship, but let's face it, you're gallivanting around the galaxy of your own accord, and most of your squadmates are people of different species and dubious morality who may or may not help you catch Saren.

By the time you head off to Ilos and instigate the romance with her, you've already thrown the rulebook out, having stolen the Normandy from under the Council's noses, and committed treason by accessing the Mu Relay. I guess by that point, she may well have changed her mind over sticking to rank and acted on her feelings.

 

[Dasick]

(some unfortunate choices with gender/race impacts on stats aside)

Care to elaborate? I actually thought those were clever ways of making the race/gender affect your character, but at the same time it doesn't define your character.

It is a little weird how playing as a dark-skinned human means you get lower mental stats but are more athletic. They ditched it for Skyrim, apparently, which is pretty welcome.

Well, naturally that is the case. Redguards, Nords and Orcs are all warrior races, and their cultures are intolerant of magic, for which the defining attribute is Intelligence.

To be honest, all the races in Skyrim feel all the same, so I wonder why you consider it a good thing. Their powers are really, really useless for the most part, and the skill boosts are not enough to tell you about your charcter's race and culture.

 

[Dasick]

I think the difference in the situation described in that e-mail and Mass Effect's plot is that Shepard is, first and foremost, a Spectre. Sure, both Shepard and Ashely are serving in the Alliance Navy, and the Normandy is an Alliance ship, but let's face it, you're gallivanting around the galaxy of your own accord, and most of your squadmates are people of different species and dubious morality who may or may not help you catch Saren.

Yeah, but Ash is always acting like a disciplined soldier first and foremost. Her dedication and discipline set her apart from other characters and help define her own character. Plus, Shepard is still running an Alliance ship, with a mostly Alliance crew (just because they are boring and without dialogue doesn't mean they're not there), and the Alliance command still expects you to fetch them their coffee brewed from ten giant rat tails.

By the time you head off to Ilos and instigate the romance with her, you've already thrown the rulebook out, having stolen the Normandy from under the Council's noses, and committed treason by accessing the Mu Relay. I guess by that point, she may well have changed her mind over sticking to rank and acted on her feelings.

Maybe that did happen, maybe it didn't. but for a character driven story such a major character development shouldn't happen off-screen.

 

[Tono Makt]

Probably to do something unusual - a female character who is a romantic option who isn't bisexual. Not complaining about that, particularly considering you can romance just about everyone on the ship, the ship itself, a half dozen people off of the ship, Wrex (Sheperd), that giant dead plant thing on Feros, Harbinger and Mike from Saskatoon. Having Ashley be completely straight is a bit refreshing.

 

[Melon Hunter]

I think the difference in the situation described in that e-mail and Mass Effect's plot is that Shepard is, first and foremost, a Spectre. Sure, both Shepard and Ashely are serving in the Alliance Navy, and the Normandy is an Alliance ship, but let's face it, you're gallivanting around the galaxy of your own accord, and most of your squadmates are people of different species and dubious morality who may or may not help you catch Saren.

Yeah, but Ash is always acting like a disciplined soldier first and foremost. Her dedication and discipline set her apart from other characters and help define her own character. Plus, Shepard is still running an Alliance ship, with a mostly Alliance crew (just because they are boring and without dialogue doesn't mean they're not there), and the Alliance command still expects you to fetch them their coffee brewed from ten giant rat tails.

By the time you head off to Ilos and instigate the romance with her, you've already thrown the rulebook out, having stolen the Normandy from under the Council's noses, and committed treason by accessing the Mu Relay. I guess by that point, she may well have changed her mind over sticking to rank and acted on her feelings.

Maybe that did happen, maybe it didn't. but for a character driven story such a major character development shouldn't happen off-screen.

That's a good point about the character development happening offscreen - except so does that e-mail. I've never seen that before, and therefore I had no idea Ash was so committed to her role as a soldier it came before anything else. Where does it come from?

 

[Freechoice]

I think the answer is entirely clear cut: because Ashley simply isn't gay/bi. Any curiosity she might have on the subject is neatly taken care of by xenophobia.

She'd make a great inquisitor in the Imperium.

OT: She's a Christian. She shouldn't change her stance on that just because there was a time lapse. That was one of the things Bioware did well in ME3's non-gameplay aspects: not rewrite characters that have already been characterized just to make them homosexual friendly.

Bravo Bioware. Now, about that ending...