ME3: One hell of a retcon...

[Gametek]

Now? They want money so it's a harem game. Just because fans "demand" it that doesn't mean they need to compromise their principals (if they had any) and do it. It's ME3. The game is going to sell huge no matter what. This is clearly just them trying to reel in as much cash as they can before they have to stop making the latest blockbuster series.

Game are not like film. In the videogame industry, you have a different type of approach to the producer. If they make good game, you trust them, And go to the day one buy. If you are not so sure about it, you wait to see the review, to know if the game is worth your money. If they made bad game, they make bad game, and it's not probably that you will buy the game, even if it is a master piece.
I'm kind of tired of all the "they do what the fuck they want" talk. Please, I wish that at the end of the sentence someone ever attack an "until they make the game bad". It simply bug me.
To this point: you make yourself an harem? Good for you. You do it simply by hitting on the head your sex buddies? Bad.
I could go on to the infinite with it, but it is pointless: the thread is focused on the question on how the story about the romance will be played.
But from that to go to the usual protection of bioweare is simply bad. Who care what the blockbuster series do nowadays? This don't make it a good decision. The earth is flat no one?

 

[Nimcha]

How they should've handled it: Make male homosexuality available or even existent from the start to not pigeon hold themselves

That doesn't make sense. It was never stated that male homosexuality doesn't exist in the galaxy.

It's not just what's stated, it's what's shown. As is evident and repeated numerous times over, there were no male homosexuals or even homosexuals in general in ME up to ME3. None. That's two games worth of content. Hours of traveling from world to world, town to town, galaxy to galaxy.

The fact that there wasn't even one gay couple is evidence enough that homosexuality didn't exist in the galaxy of Mass Effect. It's like when the first Star Wars movie came out everyone was like, "...Wait, where's all the black people?"
"...Wait, where's all the gay people?"

Wow, ok. I'm not even going to bother pointing out how ridiculous this is.

We've never seen cats in the games, they don't exist in the ME galaxy then :O

 

[Ian Caronia]

Its not, its asinine to assert that just because it wasn't on display means that there's a whole galaxy in which gay doesn't exist. Its being hyper-sensitive.

Umm...no. I'm making a comment on the context of an excluded social aspect that will be included in the final installment of a game. Who's universe up to this point in time showed no signs, subtle or not, of this kind of lifestyle existing.

I am using...debating...and thinking about it. No I do not want something flamboyant or silly...no I do not want it 'in your face' during the entire plot line. No what I want is to ponder how the hell they are going to pull it off.

Well spoken. I never understood how both sides of the argument would turn to:
"Oh so you want gay people to be in your face about how gay they are?"

An explanation. That's all. Is it really that hard to understand that, whether you agree or disagree with the decision, both sides deserve an explanation?

 

[Timzilla]

Thier is no lesbianism in Mass Effect 1 or 2. The "120 pounds of blue alein" You speak of is not a female. Asari (The race in question) do not have sexes. They look and sound like what we would call female, but thier not. For there to be a Female, thier must also be a Male, and by that notion, there can not be lesbianism between a human female and an assari.

 

[GartarkMusik]

This again? Really?

Christ, people sure do start acting funny when sexuality enters the picture.

I know, right?

It's nice to see that someone else see that this kind of thing is pretty ridiculous.

 

[LiquidGrape]

Thier is no lesbianism in Mass Effect 1 or 2. The "120 pounds of blue alein" You speak of is not a female. Asari (The race in question) do not have sexes. They look and sound like what we would call female, but thier not. For there to be a Female, thier must also be a Male, and by that notion, there can not be lesbianism between a human female and an assari.

That's not really how things work.

Spoiler: As is demonstrated here.

 

[GrizzlerBorno]

How the hell is that going to go down exactly? While lesbianism is clearly on display in ME3 (for the enjoyment of all I take it) how ever homosexual men...as far as i can remember...are completely absent in any form.

So how in in the Maker are they going to pull this off? Is it just going to be "Oh hey gay men exist now!" or just...I dunno.

Couldn't care less about retconning. What reason is there to moan about it? It's been done so that gay men can enjoy the character more - I'm fine with that reasoning.

I am a gay man. Yes I do realize that is part of the reason as to why they are doing this, but the point I'm tying to make is this.

Int the context of the 'world' of ME3 gay men do not exist in any way, shape, or form. At all...they just do not exist. So how are they going to re-gear to story so that (supposidly) it's always been there.

Thats what I'm trying to say.

Just because you haven't SEEN them, doesn't mean they "Don't exist in any way, shape or form". Heck, maybe Colonel Anderson was gay. But he never mentioned it because people don't find the need to wave about their sexuality in public if it doesn't come up in conversation....

 

[Woodsey]

It'll be interesting. They've lost their magic touch lately, so I'm not actually as confident as I would have been a year ago about whether they could integrate it tastefully.

Different writers for the different games.

OT: Its not like any character was specifically stated to be one or the other, I don't think it matters. And if you aren't going to roll a gay Shepard, it won't affect you anyway.

I would like to point out to you that Bioware themselves have stated that anyone rolling a gay Shepard in Mass Effect 3 would have a far superior experience than anyone trying to play a straight Shepard. Just sayin.

Where did you read that? Post the link I want to read this myself.

If thats true then they are catering to a specific group of people.A minority I might add.Which is total bullshit.Ill not play a game where I'm told that the only way to get the best experience out of it is to play ass backwards from how I have played the other 2 games.They should just take all the romances out of their games if they can't keep the continuity of pre established characters.

I just looked everywhere but I cant find the image or the post. I must have deleted the image when I formatted, I didnt save my picture folder. Its all over the internet though, the link and the image, its some important Bioware guy posting in the forums and he says something along the lines of: "People playing as gay Shepard will have a way better experience than people playing a straight Shepard. Seriously, if you play a straight Shepard you will be missing out on a lot!" Not bullshitting. If I find it I will update this post.

It'll be interesting. They've lost their magic touch lately, so I'm not actually as confident as I would have been a year ago about whether they could integrate it tastefully.

Different writers for the different games.

OT: Its not like any character was specifically stated to be one or the other, I don't think it matters. And if you aren't going to roll a gay Shepard, it won't affect you anyway.

I would like to point out to you that Bioware themselves have stated that anyone rolling a gay Shepard in Mass Effect 3 would have a far superior experience than anyone trying to play a straight Shepard. Just sayin.

If that's a joke, its gone straight over my head.

It wasnt, unfortunately.

Wow, that's so specific. We should definitely all rage about that.

 

[LiquidGrape]

It'll be interesting. They've lost their magic touch lately, so I'm not actually as confident as I would have been a year ago about whether they could integrate it tastefully.

Different writers for the different games.

OT: Its not like any character was specifically stated to be one or the other, I don't think it matters. And if you aren't going to roll a gay Shepard, it won't affect you anyway.

I would like to point out to you that Bioware themselves have stated that anyone rolling a gay Shepard in Mass Effect 3 would have a far superior experience than anyone trying to play a straight Shepard. Just sayin.

Where did you read that? Post the link I want to read this myself.

If thats true then they are catering to a specific group of people.A minority I might add.Which is total bullshit.Ill not play a game where I'm told that the only way to get the best experience out of it is to play ass backwards from how I have played the other 2 games.They should just take all the romances out of their games if they can't keep the continuity of pre established characters.

I just looked everywhere but I cant find the image or the post. I must have deleted the image when I formatted, I didnt save my picture folder. Its all over the internet though, the link and the image, its some important Bioware guy posting in the forums and he says something along the lines of: "People playing as gay Shepard will have a way better experience than people playing a straight Shepard. Seriously, if you play a straight Shepard you will be missing out on a lot!" Not bullshitting. If I find it I will update this post.

I really hope you're not referring to this shop.

...because it's a [HEADING=2]complete fabrication.[/HEADING]
I think it was even made by someone here at the Escapist.

I left that :trollface there for a reason people.. Some of you lot are waaaay too uptight

That said, I'm all for gay Shep.

 

[DSK-]

You know I was sitting here thinking about how nice it's going to be to finally romance Kaidain in ME3 (I like the men, and I wanted him to join my Hawke, and Elven Gray warden)....and it it struck me. How the hell is that going to go down exactly? While lesbianism is clearly on display in ME3 (for the enjoyment of all I take it) how ever homosexual men...as far as i can remember...are completely absent in any form.

So how in in the Maker are they going to pull this off? Is it just going to be "Oh hey gay men exist now!" or just...I dunno.

Then I had another thought...why don't thy make it illegal. The love of two women is legal but the love between two men is not and is considered extremely taboo. A kind of sad commentary on how some things never change...even in the future.

That would actually make sense in the context of the world of ME3. Considering what they said here http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/99710-BioWare-Explains-Why-Theres-No-Homosexuality-in-Mass-Effect-2 which well...it seems like to me they completely ignored the 120 pound blue alien in the room.

Why do you guys think? How should they handle this?

I take it you've seen/played the game enough to know that lesbianism is in/still in the game? or are you basing that on what can happen in both ME1 and ME2?

Regardless, you're probably right in any event; but people might get a little confused by your wording

 

[CrustyOatmeal]

i hope they dont make kaiden gay simply because he wasnt gay in the first one. dont get me wrong, i want a homosexual and a lesbian choice but i dont want a character to suddenly become gay after being straight the first iteration

in my opinion, the only thing worse than having no gay/ lesbian love interests in a game is having every romance character be bisexual. i guess they could explain how bisexuality is accepted in the universe but seeing as how kaiden and ashley were straight in ME1 the sort of screwed the pooch on that one

one thing i would like is the ability to romance people outside of your crew. why not fall in love with a character on-board a space station or from another planet? it would make you repeatedly go back to that persons location to visit them (you know, like in real life) and work your way in to their heart (or pants). im tired of romancing only a few people that fallow me around all the time. i want to work to see what my partner's inner emotions and morals are, not experience them through the main storyline

 

[Compatriot Block]

Spoiler

It'll be interesting. They've lost their magic touch lately, so I'm not actually as confident as I would have been a year ago about whether they could integrate it tastefully.

Different writers for the different games.

OT: Its not like any character was specifically stated to be one or the other, I don't think it matters. And if you aren't going to roll a gay Shepard, it won't affect you anyway.

I would like to point out to you that Bioware themselves have stated that anyone rolling a gay Shepard in Mass Effect 3 would have a far superior experience than anyone trying to play a straight Shepard. Just sayin.

Where did you read that? Post the link I want to read this myself.

If thats true then they are catering to a specific group of people.A minority I might add.Which is total bullshit.Ill not play a game where I'm told that the only way to get the best experience out of it is to play ass backwards from how I have played the other 2 games.They should just take all the romances out of their games if they can't keep the continuity of pre established characters.

I just looked everywhere but I cant find the image or the post. I must have deleted the image when I formatted, I didnt save my picture folder. Its all over the internet though, the link and the image, its some important Bioware guy posting in the forums and he says something along the lines of: "People playing as gay Shepard will have a way better experience than people playing a straight Shepard. Seriously, if you play a straight Shepard you will be missing out on a lot!" Not bullshitting. If I find it I will update this post.

It'll be interesting. They've lost their magic touch lately, so I'm not actually as confident as I would have been a year ago about whether they could integrate it tastefully.

Different writers for the different games.

OT: Its not like any character was specifically stated to be one or the other, I don't think it matters. And if you aren't going to roll a gay Shepard, it won't affect you anyway.

I would like to point out to you that Bioware themselves have stated that anyone rolling a gay Shepard in Mass Effect 3 would have a far superior experience than anyone trying to play a straight Shepard. Just sayin.

If that's a joke, its gone straight over my head.

It wasnt, unfortunately.

No, it WAS a joke. It was in response to a homophobic post on the BioWare forums. The employee was messing with him because the poster was being a dick.

If you people havent realized, Bioware have gone full homo.

It doesn't matter if you deny being homophobic, your post oozes it. This is just the crown jewel of your quotes.

Oh and for all of the people bitching about the writing in BioWare games, stop for a second and think. Is it true that you actually hate their writing? Or is it because you didn't like Dragon Age 2, and you're either blowing that WAY out of proportion or it's become the new trendy thing to complain about?

 

[Woodsey]

snip.

The only people who thought that are people who can't deal with the fact that people who are different to them exist (hint: it isn't the majority that thinks what you're saying). I'll give you the benefit of the doubt when it comes to where you placed the word "normal" in that comment.

There was one instance in the entirety of Dragon Age 2's 30-40 hours that even came anywhere remotely close to what those people try and claim, and that was one line from Anders where it felt like it could have gone overboard.

 

[Booze Zombie]

They could have it that Kaiden's loving friendship had turned into a closet-attraction for you and but since you already had eyes for someone else, he respected your choice and kept it to himself, which is why he's so pissed off with you in ME2.

You don't need to be too creative to explain it away, no offence.

 

[Alucard788]

Oh and for all of the people bitching about the writing in BioWare games, stop for a second and think. Is it true that you actually hate their writing? Or is it because you didn't like Dragon Age 2, and you're either blowing that WAY out of proportion or it's become the new trendy thing to complain about?

I suppose to it's not the right time as the OP of this thread to admit that I kinda liked DA2 (not as much as DA:O mind you)...and I thought that Anders was absolutely charming.

I mean really I don't mind if people hate Bioware games...but theres no need to vent it allover my musing about an aspect of storytelling, that I'm trying to explore.

Yikes.

 

[LiquidGrape]

This is something of a tangent, but I'll never understand those who claim the romances in Dragon Age 2 were poorly written. Most of the time the objections boil down to "they're all bisexual" anyway, which is about as reductive as you can get.

I found four very disparate, fleshed-out characters available for romantic pursuit in DA2, and I'm very happy to see the Mass Effect team seems willing to take a leaf out of its book in terms of inclusion.
Generally speaking, I thought people were in favour of more options?

As for this notion of Mass Effect characters having "established sexualities"...there is no such thing.
No character has ever made an explicit account for their orientation, and is thus open for elaboration.

 

[solemnwar]

For the people saying "no character ever denied being homosexual/bisexual"... doesn't Jack say to femshep at some point (once you've gone through all her dialogue) that she's not a "girls club" person? Would be kinda weird to suddenly change it.

 

[veloper]

You know I was sitting here thinking about how nice it's going to be to finally romance Kaidain in ME3 (I like the men, and I wanted him to join my Hawke, and Elven Gray warden)....and it it struck me. How the hell is that going to go down exactly? While lesbianism is clearly on display in ME3 (for the enjoyment of all I take it) how ever homosexual men...as far as i can remember...are completely absent in any form.

So how in in the Maker are they going to pull this off?

Here's a question for you that you must answer first: how can Shepard be a guy in one game and a woman in the next?

And this one: how is it that Kaidan died in ME1, when he didn't die in ME1?

Bio are simply going to make the romanceable characters bi, because nothing related to any potential player choices in ME1 and ME2 has to be canonical.

"How can Shepard be a guy in one game and a woman in the next?"
Answer: He can't. You make the character from the start and they stay that sex. If you don't bring over your save data and start fresh in ME2, you have to choose a sex prior to even the first cutscene, which in turn means that Shepard was a woman before ME2 (if you chose such form the menu in ME2).

It's a matter of choice before establishing the character. It's the genesis of the character. You're not changing the sex of the character after the character has already be established.

"How is it that Kaiden died in ME1, when he didn't die in ME1?"
Answer: Don't try and go all Schrodinger's Cat on this. It's a choice. You choose if he dies or doesn't. He isn't magically alive in the next game if you killed him (unlike the DA:O characters in Dragon Age 2, but that's for another time >_>).

"Bio are simply going to make the romanceable characters bi, because nothing related to any potential player choices in ME1 and ME2 has to be canonical."
Response: ...Are you joking? Because that sounded like a joke to me. If so, then I wholly agree with you on the fact that Bioware's writers seem to genuinely believe this for most accounts: "Story continuity? Character continuity? PFFF! We'll make them ALLL gay! Give us your money now, pl0x."

If you were being serious then...that's just silly.

The devs are prolly going to bring him back from the dead too regardless of what you did in ME1.
Making him bi or gay then is a relatively minor point. Did Kaiden even show any indication of being straight or anything at all, if you played only the male protagonist?

 

[sumanoskae]

Huh... not a bad idea, actually.

 

[LiquidGrape]

For the people saying "no character ever denied being homosexual/bisexual"... doesn't Jack say to femshep at some point (once you've gone through all her dialogue) that she's not a "girls club" person? Would be kinda weird to suddenly change it.

It's true that is the closest we've come to an outright admission, but it's still ambiguous at best. You could just as well argue it reflects Jack's unwillingness to be part of the "girly" stock. She shies away from budding friendships fearing it might lead to something more intimate.
It's not the most direct interpretation, but executed right in ME3, it could make for a quite powerful romantic subplot.

Besides, she even mentions having female affairs in the past, and when asked if she's had any recent relationships, she asks "What, like a boyfriend or a girlfriend?"

Clearly the idea isn't exactly foreign to her.