Mediocrity Scrolls Online

Balimaar

The Bass Fish
Sep 26, 2010
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Gamers: Give us something different thats not just another WoW clone!
Devs: K. Here's a combat system where you actually PARTICIPATE. Its not just TAB 1,2,3 TAB 1,2,3.

Finding it somewhat odd that people complain about the crafting system when it is very similar to everything out there. Probably the only thing I've found different from most things I have played are recipes.

Recipes make sense to me. Why should I know straight away how to make a crossbow because I made 100 staffs?

Then there are the people complaining about paying for the game then paying a sub fee... yeah... lets not forget all those other games that do the exact same thing eh?

etc. etc.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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008Zulu said:
You're right, there is no benefit to modding at all.
Huh. I must have missed the point where I said that. I've re-read my post a couple of times, and I still don't see it. Can you point it out to me? Because if you're going to sarcastically ridicule me for something, I'd like it to at least be for something I actually said.

If the games weren't modable, they would be mediocre at best and forgotten very quickly.
Ah. And here we finally get dangerously close to touching upon what I said.

If they are so mediocre, then the fawning over them is completely ridiculous. Yet the fawning exists. Even for the vanilla games. Even over the unmoddable console versions of the games.
 

Pr0

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Feb 20, 2008
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I think the largest problem here is that Zenimax Studios had an entire decades worth of the MMO industry's history to look at for exactly where the barometer for content and pricing was in 2014 and more or less ignored all of it based on the "ideal" that their content was a "premium" experience.

This isn't to argue that other companies don't charge subscription fees for so called "premium experiences" as well..because they do.

Where things really went off the rails for me is when they upped that ante into pay wall content, and cash shop content that has a serious affect on game play.

The cash shop/vanity/power on demand market is where games go when the sub fee is no longer viable...but Zenimax apparently feels, even given the horrendous market track record of MMO's for the last 8 years, that they can not just go with a premium box price, and a premium subscription...but also pay wall and cash shop routes at the exact same time.

Its simply ludicrous business practice in the current industry era to have this level of arrogance, to think that you're literally so good that regardless of what you do or how you do it....obviously you're shitting gold so everyone will pay for it.

After playing multiple beta runs I knew this wasn't a day one buy for me...it simply wasn't breaking enough new ground to be worth the cash. Whats more, the shennigans with the collectors edition content and cash shop again, just put it off the must play list for me.

But oddly enough the literal DAY OF RELEASE...the day when you'd think the hype machine was turned up to 11, the internet did not have anything to say about ESO. There was one veritable article on ESO on 04/04/2014...and that was a small off shot article from PC Gamer in of which they were giving starting tips for new ESO players...the #2 tip in the list being "Try to ignore all the quest breaking bugs"....great.

Other than that, and MMORPG.com....which will literally write articles about anything cause its the only way they can justify their CPM rates any more, the internet was eerily silent about the release of ESO. My friends were playing everything but that..the few people I did know playing it, weren't saying much about it and telling me how much I was missing.

Literally no one I knew, or trusted for their somewhat educated opinions on the matter had a word to say about ESO..at all. It was as if the day hadn't even happened, thats how quiet and uneventful the "most anticipated MMO launch of 2014" was.

So do I hate ESO? Hates a strong word, in regards to games, that I generally reserve for things like Casey Hudson and Mac Walters and Jon Smedley...you know, legitimate serial killer types.

I don't hate ESO, but I also don't really care what its doing right now. It didn't...apparently, generate enough launch hype for me to even feel like I missed anything. And I guess if you're Zenimax Studios, you might want to wonder why you spent three quarters of a million dollars on Blur trailers and you ended up with that kind of launch day apathy.
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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Gennadios said:
This is odd. I read through page 1 of the comments with no positive comments made about the game.

What happened to the days when everyone was excited about upcoming MMOs with a 10-20% troll ratio?
Reality happened? We've been promised WoW killer after WoW killer for years and years and now we know better?
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Sep 6, 2009
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Jasper van Heycop said:
I'm a PC gamer and I've never modded Skyrim, modders aren't even in the majority of the people that play Skyrim. The games are damn good, especially compared to the drek that passes for "RPG's" these days.
You should check out the stat counters on some the Skyrim mod websites. Compare that number to the number of PC Skyrim players.
 

Evil Smurf

Admin of Catoholics Anonymous
Nov 11, 2011
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If I want an "Elder Scrolls Experience" why don't I just reinstall Skyrim?
Daystar Clarion said:
*****, you can't have my space money, I need it for space hookers and space blow.
I know a guy, I'll hook you up.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Zachary Amaranth said:
008Zulu said:
You're right, there is no benefit to modding at all.
Huh. I must have missed the point where I said that. I've re-read my post a couple of times, and I still don't see it. Can you point it out to me? Because if you're going to sarcastically ridicule me for something, I'd like it to at least be for something I actually said.

If the games weren't modable, they would be mediocre at best and forgotten very quickly.
Ah. And here we finally get dangerously close to touching upon what I said.

If they are so mediocre, then the fawning over them is completely ridiculous. Yet the fawning exists. Even for the vanilla games. Even over the unmoddable console versions of the games.
Sure;

Zachary Amaranth said:
Also, it's not an authentic TES experience until you have 50,000 people simultaneously screaming about the power of mods because the game itself is apparently ass but mods are the sweet elixer or life.
You statement implies the game is not worth playing unless it's been modded. It's one I happen to agree with.

The game looks pretty, I'll give it that. But the vanilla game itself? Bland NPCs, an imbalanced combat system, a central storyline that is overshadowed by almost every other quest line in the game and of course what Bethesda game wouldn't be complete without game breaking bugs and glitches?
 

Something Amyss

Aswyng and Amyss
Dec 3, 2008
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008Zulu said:
Zachary Amaranth said:
Also, it's not an authentic TES experience until you have 50,000 people simultaneously screaming about the power of mods because the game itself is apparently ass but mods are the sweet elixer or life.
Which has nothing to do with the statement I asked you to back up, so...Try again?

You statement implies the game is not worth playing unless it's been modded. It's one I happen to agree with.
Also, it implies no such thing. Are you done putting words in my mouth now?

But the vanilla game itself? Bland NPCs, an imbalanced combat system, a central storyline that is overshadowed by almost every other quest line in the game and of course what Bethesda game wouldn't be complete without game breaking bugs and glitches?
And people still love them. Funny that.

That also being what I just said that you were attempt to rebut, so....
 

Silly Hats

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Dec 26, 2012
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TESO is the most refreshing MMO that i've played in a long time. It has more of an emphasis on Roleplaying and less about damage numbers and rad loot. Which I love, the questing system is really well done. One little quest trigger turns into a great mini 3-5 quest campaign. With a major Exploration insentive.

But the most significant part is that players haven't ever gotten in my way, I haven't seen any Trolls while playing and there's a number of instances where are solo/group only instances/Dungeons for story based story quests. It feels like an Elder Scrolls game with and adventure/NPC mods.

People really go into TESO with a completely wrong mindset, it's an Elder Scrolls flavoured MMO - not an online Morrowind. Way too many people are playing this game with the wrong mindset. It's more co-operative than MMO, which is the reason why Guildwars 1 is my favourite online game and GW2 disapointed me so much.

It took me about 1-2 hours to get into the rhythm, 12 hours later it is the biggest surprise i've had in a long time. I really wasn't into the Beta. You need to get into the type of game that TESO is.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Zachary Amaranth said:
Also, it implies no such thing. Are you done putting words in my mouth now?
Zachary Amaranth said:
mods are the sweet elixer or life.
Pretty conclusive. My rebuttal was more sarcasm about how they are needed to make the game actually work within the spirit of the idea behind the game.

But the vanilla game itself? Bland NPCs, an imbalanced combat system, a central storyline that is overshadowed by almost every other quest line in the game and of course what Bethesda game wouldn't be complete without game breaking bugs and glitches?
Zachary Amaranth said:
And people still love them. Funny that.
Some people are mesmerized by the built up hype of the game rather than the game itself.
 

Farther than stars

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Jun 19, 2011
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Thank you. This is how I've felt about pretty much every Elder Scrolls game, a series which has always substituted quality with size, even compared to their contemporary alternatives. Admittedly, I haven't played Skyrim, but after Morrowind and Oblivion, I'm not hopeful.
 

forgo911

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Feb 26, 2014
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Therumancer said:
A few points:

1. Bethesda is still developing new single player games for both Fallout and Elder Scrolls. This was made clear from the very beginning as when ESO was first announced the initial reactions were "OMG, this means no single player games" and Bethesda was quick to say this was not the truth.

2. Elder Scrolls Online is pretty much charging standard rates. The cost is box plus subscription. You cannot consider that truly "double dipping" as that has been the way MMOs were being sold since pretty much the very beginning. I say pretty much because the first MMOs actually charged you by the hour or minute. But Everquest, WoW, Ultima Online, and others all used this basic business model.

So far I have yet to run into any real micro transactions. The outrage over this so far was because people who bought standard editions of the game got all POed that people who bought the Collector's Edition got a free horse. Unlike other MMOs the mount system in ESO is a little more advanced, as your mount levels up when you feed it once a day, and you can raise it's base speed, sprinting, and carrying capacity (it adds to your inventory). Bethesda's response was to release a brown version of the same horse as an add on for the game, so those who didn't buy a collector's edition could get the same benefit. While this appeased some whiners, it pretty much got other whiners on their case about starting with micro transactions.

This does not mean there will not be other micro transactions later however, but so far there don't seem to be any that I have seen.

-

THAT said, I myself as a player (and former beta player) will tell you that the game itself isn't great. As I said with Beta it has potential, like a lot of MMOs do, but a lot of it depends on what they do with it, and how fast.

I do agree that the combat is a bit of a mess, it's one of those cases where people complained about everything being a "WoW clone" and so they set out to create a more active kind of battle system where you have to aim melee attacks and such, rather than everything being "tab target, auto attack, and use abilities". Really he only part of the system that is WoW-like is tying your abilities to hotkeys (and really there aren't many more efficient ways to do it). It also seems to have taken some nods from say "The Secret World" where while you could have a dozen or more abilities it only lets you have 5 things you can do active at any given time (and one "ultimate" power) which forces you to pretty much create micro-builds within each class. Weapon switching being less for having an actual alternate weapon, as much as a way to access another 5 abilities.

I've still got my eye on "Wildstar" somewhat, but the way things are looking is that I doubt we'll see another great MMO until Blizzard again shows everyone how it's done. ESO seemed to fall into the trap of innovation for the sake of innovation without testing itself too heavily. What's more it seemed to isolate itself from the fans, where the open betas were more for stress testing than actually getting feedback (and their feedback was through some rather impersonal surveys that didn't allow for a lot of expression).

I'll probably play ESO for a little while before I drop it (burned out on other games), unless of course it does something to seriously kindle interest. For the most part "Neverwinter" (which it's combat reminds me of for some reason) did this kind of combat better. Albeit Neverwinter is one of the most monetized games I've run into, while people have a kneejerk reaction to subscriptions, I actually find things like "pay for inventory space" even more annoying.
Wow steal my thunder with Neverwinter eh? I agree with almost everything you said, such as the combat is boring and that yes, it is a WoW clone. The big thing that they messed up thou is that they used a standard MMO progression system.

What made the ES series so good was the fact that you could go anywhere and do anything. In ESO you better do some serious grinding or else you are going to die...a lot. No matter how skilled you are (I'm pretty damn good in Neverwinter) you must be at least the same level as the people you are fighting or you're dead. Now before anyone jumps down my throat I know that's how MMO are supposed to work. My point is why should it have too? They could do something new and possibly compete with WoW. Tell me you wouldn't think about paying all that money if you could roam free and do whatever you want with your friends. You could do a massive thieving spree across the land or murder an entire city. That would be fun to do, but instead we got another boring MMO that will die out in a couple of years.
 
Jun 26, 2010
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008Zulu said:
Some people are mesmerized by the built up hype of the game rather than the game itself.
I've played Skyrim since release day on Xbox 360, and though I don't play it as often as I used to, I still play it, and it's still a fantastic game in my opinion. I know I'm not the only one amongst the people I know. It's got nothing to do with being mesmerised by hype, but actually enjoying a good game, whereas it seems too many people have become jaded and cynical, focussing on negatives instead of the positives. This appears to be prevalent in the modding and PC community.

OT: I played the last two BETA weekends, and the only thing that really bugged me was that the game felt like it was still pushing for a solo experience, especially with the main quest and the prophet. It completely broke the immersion for me, because I knew every other player around me was also part of this quest.

I got used to all the other players, though I would definitely have enjoyed a simple cooperative experience in a usual Elder Scrolls game than a full blown MMO.

Also, every keeps talking about an in-game cash shop, but I never saw one...
 

Wolf In A Bear Suit

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Jun 2, 2012
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It would need to be phenomenal to survive with that pricing model for long. As it stands I give it a year before they cut the sub at least or go F2P. I really can't see how it goes otherwise but I'm no expert. On a mild tangent the people on the über fanboys on the ESO Facebook page are so incredibly insufferable and defensive about this game it makes me want to live with wild boar in the forest. (Boars are cool, they have tusks! Go boars!)
But hey as long as this doesn't delay my new Fallout I really don't care what people want to waste er spend their money on. I don't have the means to play it anyway.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Sigmar ov The Hammer said:
focussing on negatives instead of the positives. This appears to be prevalent in the modding and PC community.
In Oblivion you could cast spells while holding a sword and shield, in Skyrim you can't. And that's the downside of the modding community, if someone releases a texture pack that changes the road signs, then everyone will say "Well if there is a mod for it, then the original must have sucked!" Sometimes it's to correct a downgraded game mechanic, other times it's to replace lower res textures. Unfortunately, there's no delineating scale.
 

Savryc

NAPs, Spooks and Poz. Oh my!
Aug 4, 2011
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008Zulu said:
Some people are mesmerized by the built up hype of the game rather than the game itself.
I bought Morrowind based on the box blurb alone for the original Xbox and guess what? I enjoyed them without any mods. I also enjoyed Oblivion and Skyrim on the 360. Countless hours sunk into them all without a mod in sight.

I did get them on the PC eventually, only because I'd burned through near enough all of the content of the vanilla. It was then I realised that about 90% of all mods made are generally crap. With a few occasional shiners coming through. But if you lock some monkeys in a room with no salary to pay, no deadline, no goals to reach, no targets to meet, no rabid fans to please and an already complete product they can work upon, not build themselves and with the tools necessary to work bundled in for them I'm sure they'd come up with the occasional good mod too.
 

Holythirteen

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Mar 1, 2013
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forgo911 said:
What made the ES series so good was the fact that you could go anywhere and do anything. In ESO you better do some serious grinding or else you are going to die...a lot. No matter how skilled you are (I'm pretty damn good in Neverwinter) you must be at least the same level as the people you are fighting or you're dead. Now before anyone jumps down my throat I know that's how MMO are supposed to work. My point is why should it have too?
Because.

:)

It just works out that way due to the subscription-based nature of it all. Think about how long you played Skyrim. I would guess you played it like mad for 2 or 3 months, cut back on it for the next three, then just play infrequently when it strikes your fancy(pretty generous estimates but possibly). That can't work for an MMO. They can't have people chewing through it like that or people will get bored and play other things, probably cancelling or holding their subscriptions.

I played WoW and had fun crafting, trading, and dungeon-running, but there were so many times that it felt like an obligation that kept me from enjoying other things.

People who like it seem to have a "it will get better" point of view, but to justify that money, I need to hear a massive uproar of "you need to get this game now".