Tell me about it man. The whole world is waiting for the house to get off their various high horses and raise the debt ceiling already.TypeSD said:
Meet Yahtzee at PAX, Get Stuff
- Thread starter Susan Arendt
- Start date
Apparently, since I don't have thousands of dollars to give to Yahtzee, though I would gladly buy a shirt or book of his if it meant I was helping out, I'm not a real fan? I would assume the average Yahtzee fan COULD NOT afford most to donate as much as we're being asked for, and that shouldn't surprise the contest holders either. This seems like something a videogame publisher would take more interest in, over a fan...
You are correct that employers should pay for these expenses. The problem is this is not what you are doing. You are not paying to bring him out, you are asking his fans to give him a bunch of money he doesn't need (he probably makes more money than most of them do), so you can fly him and yourselves out last-minute with expensive plane tickets, when you wouldn't have needed nearly this much cash if you'd put up this thread six months ago and pre-ordered plain tickets like a regular joe.Kross said:
JoelChenFA said:
What'd I'd prefer is for them to start paying the bloody debt, rather than just allowing more.
I suggest imposing a fine of 20k on Jimquisition for breaking the forum rules. Then you can fly to wherever you want!Samurai Goomba said:
You really don't like Jimquisition, do you? Is it Jim you have a problem with, or the fact that escapist contributors can say and do certain things in their shows, when the same behavior gets users banned. Just curious, and feel free to link me to examples of this (meaning Jim breaking forum rules) happening. Not challenging that it is, I'd just like to see.JoelChenFA said:
Also I think Jim is a pretty funny guy. I was offended at first until I realized the massive amount of sarcasm that goes on in every video. Sure, sarcasm doesn't translate well on the 'net, but everything from the intro song to the way Jim presents himself seems satirical to me.
On-Topic: One thing that does seem really off here (no, not repeating old ground, this is new for me) is the pricing. I think it goes beyond "a bad deal." 5,000 dollars to force Yahtzee to review a game of my choice? And then on top of that the escapist is limiting this review to only indie games? Why? Just... Why? Furthermore, the escapist reserves the right to reject any game "based on the spirit of the donation and content?" What does that even mean? That's a get out of jail free card for the escapist to reject ANY game, really. Look, escapist, 5 grand for a single, 3-4 minute WMM review is already the definition of "a bad deal" (in terms of comparable value for money. For example, I could buy 2-3 really expensive high-tech TVs with that cash, or live on that money for a month or two), but these limitations really hit home and make a poor product less appealing.
And yeah, at least half of these are PAX only, and most people can't attend by now. Old point. Moving on.
"Outro sponsorship?" What is this? My name in the credits? Why would anyone want that? I can see some appeal to the other products, even though I think they're overpriced. But what good does it do me as a customer to see my name in the credits for the low low price of 1,000 dollars? 1,000 bucks is a lot of money, and that's not really a "product," it's more like a donation plaque, of the sort somebody would get for donating to charity. So again, how is this not a donation drive?
Finally, there are many worthy causes to donate to, and money is very tight in the charity sector. To anyone who is considering donating money here, please consider either giving that money or giving some other money to a charity that does good work. It's not hard to find a charity that uses most or all their donation money to directly support the services they offer. For many people, these establishments make the difference between people turning their lives around or living under horrible conditions. I'm a penniless college student myself, and I'm not saying people should donate to charity, but to those who have the money for this, please consider alternative/additional places to donate to. $5,000 means a lot to your local domestic violence shelters or food banks.
Oh! Ha ha! I got told. Yes. I have nothing better to do.Kross said:Will you write about me in your wiki of anger if I do?Mr Montmorency said:
I'll turn up for thirty bucks and a bagel. Fifty and two bagels and I'll even wear a silly hat.
I kinda don't want to join the conversation, but I do want to throw my 2-cents in here, because, unless I somehow fall into a lot of money really soon; it'll be all I can give to the Escapist.
I also, want to say how much I appreciate this site, it's features, Yahtzee, and everything else; because it's true, I do.
I think this all could have been prevented in a manner similar to a lot of debt issues; in that, if you don't have the money to afford something, then don't buy it.
I think I understand why the staff would want to do something like this; it's for the fans, they'll appreciate it, and that's what really matters; and all that is coming from a really great place, honestly.
But, it's still kind-of half-baked. A business, like a person has to realize when it just can't please everyone. I think the Escapist staff organizing this should have stepped back for a minute and said to themselves "We don't really have the money for this, let's not do it."
And like I said, I realize that the reason they want to do this is for the fans, but again; if it wasn't in their budget, then they shouldn't have thought about going through with something like this.
I think what a lot of members here think that a business asking for money in such a fashion (even though you are just "selling" another "product") seems unprofessional and business like.
I honestly believe that between this strategy and not doing anything with Yahtzee at PAX at all, the latter would have been preferable. Nothing would have been lost to anyone if you hadn't inspired the idea in people of bringing him to PAX in the first place.
To make another kinda lame analogy, it's like being in the final round of a game-show where it's all-or-nothing; before that point, you didn't have the money, and there would have been nothing to lose by not making it to the final round. Now that you're there, you still don't have the money, but your worried about losing it. That probably didn't translate as well through the web as it sounded in my head, but I think the jist got through.
I also, want to say how much I appreciate this site, it's features, Yahtzee, and everything else; because it's true, I do.
I think this all could have been prevented in a manner similar to a lot of debt issues; in that, if you don't have the money to afford something, then don't buy it.
I think I understand why the staff would want to do something like this; it's for the fans, they'll appreciate it, and that's what really matters; and all that is coming from a really great place, honestly.
But, it's still kind-of half-baked. A business, like a person has to realize when it just can't please everyone. I think the Escapist staff organizing this should have stepped back for a minute and said to themselves "We don't really have the money for this, let's not do it."
And like I said, I realize that the reason they want to do this is for the fans, but again; if it wasn't in their budget, then they shouldn't have thought about going through with something like this.
I think what a lot of members here think that a business asking for money in such a fashion (even though you are just "selling" another "product") seems unprofessional and business like.
I honestly believe that between this strategy and not doing anything with Yahtzee at PAX at all, the latter would have been preferable. Nothing would have been lost to anyone if you hadn't inspired the idea in people of bringing him to PAX in the first place.
To make another kinda lame analogy, it's like being in the final round of a game-show where it's all-or-nothing; before that point, you didn't have the money, and there would have been nothing to lose by not making it to the final round. Now that you're there, you still don't have the money, but your worried about losing it. That probably didn't translate as well through the web as it sounded in my head, but I think the jist got through.
This whole situation shows how little The Escapist thinks of its viewers. Yahtzee attending PAX will have no immediate impact on the site so why bother? A company should never ask their consumers for favors.
Okay, I don't know if I am beating a dead horse here but this is just...disgusting.
It was great (nay, AMAZING) to see all of those fans of Extra Credits come together to help raise money for Allison's surgery. She's a terrific artist for a terrific show.
But $20,000 to get Yahtzee to PAX Prime? I don't think so. Other than "potentially" meeting him, what's the point? It flat out says that this campaign is meant to raise money for travel and lodging for Yahtzee and you guys. Oh joy.
Considering the fact that tickets for PAX 2011 have been sold out since May, it's a bit late to ask for help and offer prizes that can ONLY be picked up at the convention that's been sold out for months (with the convention itself in less than a month). The cheapest thing a person whose not going to PAX Prime can get is a $75(!) poster (that probably hasn't been designed yet so who knows when it will get done and when it will be sent) and everything else is just crap. $750 to appear as an imp in ZP (someone actually bought this)? $5,000 to have Yahtzee review an indie game (based on content)? $100,000 for Yahtzee to make a video (you're just being greedy at this point)?!
Ya'll royally screwed the pooch on this one. -_-'
It was great (nay, AMAZING) to see all of those fans of Extra Credits come together to help raise money for Allison's surgery. She's a terrific artist for a terrific show.
But $20,000 to get Yahtzee to PAX Prime? I don't think so. Other than "potentially" meeting him, what's the point? It flat out says that this campaign is meant to raise money for travel and lodging for Yahtzee and you guys. Oh joy.
Considering the fact that tickets for PAX 2011 have been sold out since May, it's a bit late to ask for help and offer prizes that can ONLY be picked up at the convention that's been sold out for months (with the convention itself in less than a month). The cheapest thing a person whose not going to PAX Prime can get is a $75(!) poster (that probably hasn't been designed yet so who knows when it will get done and when it will be sent) and everything else is just crap. $750 to appear as an imp in ZP (someone actually bought this)? $5,000 to have Yahtzee review an indie game (based on content)? $100,000 for Yahtzee to make a video (you're just being greedy at this point)?!
Ya'll royally screwed the pooch on this one. -_-'
Pay you to advertise your web site... No thanks. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with your campaign, but there is no way on earth I'm contributing.
P.S. as an indie game developer, anyone with $5000 to give you for a review is not an indie game developer.
P.S. as an indie game developer, anyone with $5000 to give you for a review is not an indie game developer.
It looks like the RocketHub fund-raising project's been cancelled. I'm surprised. While I wasn't going to give anything to it personally (for reasons already posted), the staff here were pretty good at responding to the concerns I raised (with one exception, as the comments I posted on the YouTube video were deleted in spite of being courteously phrased). Also, it looked like the project had earned a few thousand dollars in a few days, so I thought it would reach its goal by the end of the fund-raising period. I didn't think that we were asking a sufficient amount of uncomfortable questions to derail the whole thing, honestly. Accordingly, I think the letter that's been put up on the Seattle or Bust page in place of the project info has something of an unnecessary "martyr for the cause" tone to it. But what's done is done and hopefully we can all learn something from this experience. I'll be interested to see what the Escapist thinks up for future conventions.
I agree about the tone of the letter, but since I was one of those who disagreed with the project, just the fact they're canceling it is good enough for me. Also, I think it somewhat validates the concerns of the "negative nancy" crowd who were being shouted down by more positive fans. It's rather atypical for certain internet businesses to acknowledge negative fan reactions in this manner, so cool beans on that.Estelindis said:
I agree that it's good they've cancelled it, for the most part. I feel sorry for the people who gave money, since they wanted this initiative to work out but now won't get to see any comeback on it (though, of course, their money is refunded). There is a bit of me that feels bad for "robbing" them of the ability to donate to this as they wished (though we only offered criticism, and of course the decision to end this was not ours). On the other hand, hopefully the Escapist will take a different approach next time they think of organising a big fan meet-up and everyone will be happier with the eventual result.Samurai Goomba said:
Its pretty sad how this whole thing ended. Being someone who lives south of Australia I know how expensive it is to get anywhere, let alone America. Flights to Australia, depending on when you booked, can easily run up to around 10 to 15K for a business class flight. Adding on top of that accommodation, time off work, visas, plus paying rent/mortgage on a house, a trip to PAX would be extremely expensive for Yahtzee to cover himself. Prohibitively expensive for a few days with fans.
So people who wanted the opportunity to meet Yahtzee now miss out because people got upset because they thought this wasn't a worthy charitable cause. Which it never was, it was an opportunity for people to pay money to see Yahtzee. Who cares if it was charitable anyway, if you think the cause is unworthy don't give money to it. There's really no need to unleash the nerd rage. I personally donated money even though I'm not going to PAX, because I thought it was worth supporting.
People are always going to have contrary views about whether a cause is worth supporting. It's just sad that due to the childish (see Jimquisition) overreaction of some, everyone who donated misses out.
So people who wanted the opportunity to meet Yahtzee now miss out because people got upset because they thought this wasn't a worthy charitable cause. Which it never was, it was an opportunity for people to pay money to see Yahtzee. Who cares if it was charitable anyway, if you think the cause is unworthy don't give money to it. There's really no need to unleash the nerd rage. I personally donated money even though I'm not going to PAX, because I thought it was worth supporting.
People are always going to have contrary views about whether a cause is worth supporting. It's just sad that due to the childish (see Jimquisition) overreaction of some, everyone who donated misses out.
No, hang on a sec. A conversation that starts with "Ben, you're going to PAX" usually has had before that "we're sending him to PAX, how are we getting him there/how can we afford it/you reckon some of our fans HAVE tickets/time/money/is this a bit late to start the "fundraiser"/what will people think so soon after Extra Credits did something similar/will this backfire/does anyone want to pay $75 for a poster/does an indie game developer HAVE $5000 to pay for a review?"The Irate Pirate said:
And seriously, if you don't already have a ticket to PAX, why would you pay? Ah yes, because it's a limited run of posters!
"Working with our friends at RocketHub, we decided to offer these fabulous posters at a slightly higher price than what they cost to make"
What, were they printed on baby lions?