Meet Yahtzee at PAX, Get Stuff

[Mausenheimmer]

I wonder who would pay $5000 to get their game ripped apart by Yahtzee >_>
Also, couldn't the $10-for-a-question thing lead to ridiculous number of questions?

Pretty interesting, and I really don't see anything morally offensive about it, but the cheapest reward relevant to my interests is $75, which I can't really afford to shell out for a poster

Amnesia: The Dark Descent saw a dramatic increase in sales once Yahtzee spoke kindly of it and Psychonauts became significantly more well known because of his review. So if it were a low profile indie game and Yahtzee liked it, then it could be viewed as a $5,000 advertising expense. That said, any indie game that is struggling to get recognition probably isn't going to have $5,000 to risk on Yahtzee liking it and causing sales to go through the roof.

OT: I think the timing of this promotion (i.e. so soon after the EC fundraiser, after PAX was already sold out) really hurts the Escapist's credibility. If this had been done in April, I think it would've been well received. But now it feels rushed & derivative.

 

[dyre]

I wonder who would pay $5000 to get their game ripped apart by Yahtzee >_>
Also, couldn't the $10-for-a-question thing lead to ridiculous number of questions?

Pretty interesting, and I really don't see anything morally offensive about it, but the cheapest reward relevant to my interests is $75, which I can't really afford to shell out for a poster

Amnesia: The Dark Descent saw a dramatic increase in sales once Yahtzee spoke kindly of it and Psychonauts became significantly more well known because of his review. So if it were a low profile indie game and Yahtzee liked it, then it could be viewed as a $5,000 advertising expense. That said, any indie game that is struggling to get recognition probably isn't going to have $5,000 to risk on Yahtzee liking it and causing sales to go through the roof.

OT: I think the timing of this promotion (i.e. so soon after the EC fundraiser, after PAX was already sold out) really hurts the Escapist's credibility. If this had been done in April, I think it would've been well received. But now it feels rushed & derivative.

yeah, I thought about that. But then, if Yahtzee says it's a bad game, it's kindof like ripping the guy off $5000, but if he says it's good, it'll just seem like the guy bought a good review. :\

 

[Exterminas]

I wonder who would pay $5000 to get their game ripped apart by Yahtzee >_>
Also, couldn't the $10-for-a-question thing lead to ridiculous number of questions?

Pretty interesting, and I really don't see anything morally offensive about it, but the cheapest reward relevant to my interests is $75, which I can't really afford to shell out for a poster

Amnesia: The Dark Descent saw a dramatic increase in sales once Yahtzee spoke kindly of it and Psychonauts became significantly more well known because of his review. So if it were a low profile indie game and Yahtzee liked it, then it could be viewed as a $5,000 advertising expense. That said, any indie game that is struggling to get recognition probably isn't going to have $5,000 to risk on Yahtzee liking it and causing sales to go through the roof.

OT: I think the timing of this promotion (i.e. so soon after the EC fundraiser, after PAX was already sold out) really hurts the Escapist's credibility. If this had been done in April, I think it would've been well received. But now it feels rushed & derivative.

yeah, I thought about that. But then, if Yahtzee says it's a bad game, it's kindof like ripping the guy off $5000, but if he says it's good, it'll just seem like the guy bought a good review. :\

Bad publicity is publicity as well.

Often people check out games to see if it is really THAT bad. Also called the Duke-Nukem-Forvever-Effect

 

[duchaked]

LOL make him wear funny hats

I heard LoadingReadyRun have quite a few

 

[sneeky033]

Good lord, what kind of fans are you?! I see all these people with imp avatars and ZP badges complaining that they're getting exploited to pay for a trip Yahtzee could pay for himself, but that's missing the point. I for one am glad to have an opportunity to pay Yahtzee back for the last four years of free entertainment. I'm glad that I can help the Escapist save a bit of money; money that they can use to keep the best gaming site on the web up and running. I'm glad that Yahtzee is taking the time to go to another country just to see some of his fans. My only regret is that I don't have more disposable income to give here.

Nobody's forcing anybody to give anything. That's the point of a donation. But I would be really sad if I had to be refunded because this project couldn't reach its goal.

 

[Kungfu_Teddybear]

1. A plane trip to-and-from PAX is not this expensive.

2. I know Yahtzee isn't a millionaire, but I also know he's made enough that he now owns a chain of bars around Australia. He really can't afford a plane ticket?

3. I have to donate at least $100 to be part of the meet-up? Are you fucking kidding me? Good luck making the "biggest fan meetup of all time!" with that rule.

4. It's good to know you could put giving Yahtzee free plane tickets all over your website, but couldn't do that for Extra Credits, who actually NEEDED the money.

The sad thing is, people will donate the money just to meet him. Yeah, sure, I'd like to meet Yahtzee it would be a good banter. But I'm not willing to pay that for it.

 

[Micalas]

Any chance of him still doing the Q&A with the people who donated $10 even if the project is a bust?

 

[Zulnam]

It's always fun to see a CEO reply to fans/customers. You can't help but wonder, is their way of thinking really that analytical, or do they have four advisers nearby, wearing black cloaks and whispering Satan's bidding in his ears?

 

[Raiyus]

The Escapist is, however, the only site I've ever seen where, when you click on a video, it sometimes replaces all of the rest of the window with an ad that's clickable everywhere which occasionally makes my back button not work.

THANK YOU SO MUCH. Someone else noticed... *sniffle* This is a giant pain in the ass. Well, just rather inconvenient really. Also, good luck with PAX and what-not.

 

[Samurai Goomba]

Call me naive, but I think that the money going towards The Escapist is a good enough cause. I believe that the funders will use the money to benefit the site and get the name out there. I'm mean it's not like they're IGN right? Although, I don't like the idea of paying for someone else's company. That doesn't sit right with me.

I disagree. When you look at places like YouTube, you can see the escapist is very obviously not exploiting the many FREE ways to promote their brand (such as posting previews of each new ZP show a day in advance on YT to build anticipation, for example.) The escapist only seems interested in promoting their brand if they have total and complete control over every aspect of that promotion. There are many websites they could use as an avenue for publicity, but they choose not to (probably to keep their most popular content "exclusive" in the hopes of retaining more fans, when one possible reality could be that it's limiting the growth of their shows by restricting them just to people who visit the escapist.)

Am I missing something here?

Yeah, you're missing:

c) That's how much it costs just to keep The Escapist running for a month.

It's not something we talk about, but it is not cheap or easy to keep a site of this size running, and producing the amount of content that we do. We get by, we don't get rich, and we don't have piles of money laying around to do lots of fun extra things. Not sure why people think we do.

Maybe there are ways to cut costs or manage revenue better? Maybe you have too many shows that aren't profitable enough? Perhaps you could (again) explore free avenues of publicity? Like posting old ZP episodes on your YouTube (since it's your most popular show) in hopes of reviving YT interest, possibly landing a partnership deal or just spreading interest in the escapist beyond its own community?

People are willing to donate for a good cause, but being asked to give 20k over 2 days for an event that you guys definitely could have planned better/made plans in advance for/asked us for money earlier for (and therefore not needed as MUCH, because plane tickets COST LESS when you don't buy them last minute)... Is it any wonder some people just aren't interested or feel annoyed?

And people think Yahtzee has piles of money because he keeps telling them he does. Maybe he should reign that in (on places like australian gamer podcasts and ZP reviews) if he wants to ask for money. We know he does well for himself, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who WANTS to go have a bunch of fans asking him to review games. Most of the fans he is asking for money from probably make much less money than he does.

 

[Kanatatsu]

The negative response can be boiled down to this:

We see (what appears to be) a very successful website asking for large donations from generally poor kids to fund a promotional trip for (someone who appears to be) a very successful internet personality ... and who doesn't give two shits about any of the people who donate.

And then when the masses get riled up, it's rephrased as a sale (of sorts) and the Escapist cries poor (when nobody can verify this).

I am sure that you can see how this smells to your average customer, Escapist.

 

[MarxII]

The Escapist has revealed itself for the heartless conglomerate that it is, conspiring to subject Yahtzee, of all people, to this sort of thing:
<iframe width="560" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/jNBIyGxV7Ek" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

But seriously though. I'd count myself a fan of his work, and have read nothing of his to suggest he'd remotely enjoy being mobbed by his many admirers, no matter how orderly the lines or sanctified the velvet rope may be.

And that seems to me to rather take the starch out of the whole thing. One imagines, as one poster previous has mentioned, that given the not inconsiderable outlay required, only the more ardent of his fans would make it to the table in the first place. And one further supposes, as many before have mentioned, that it would likely be something of an awkward affair if the Dux himself was only present on sufferance. Surely the monetary recompense would bestow some spirit of indulgence on the most Oscaresque misanthrope, but the point remains.

 

[repeating integers]

So...my oppurtunity is paying money so that I can pay more money so that I, a british man, can travel to america, to see another british man...

My thoughts exactly. And to think, if I lived in America, I'd have this one chance to make him review Homeworld...

 

[Carnagath]

To be fair, I don't think the Escapist is to blame here. I assume they suggested his presence and it's Yahtzee who set some ridiculously high standards for his trip, personal comfort and overall compensation for having to shake the sweaty hands of overly enthusiastic mid-20's manchildren who will then proceed to ask him who is that man with the blank stare in the picture that he uses a whole lot, and generally things he has answered 500 times before until he seriously starts to contemplate suicide.

Personally I don't see the reason to force someone who doesn't belong among crowds to be, well, among crowds, by making him an offer he can't refuse (yes, I know, what I did there, you see it). He is not like other internet personalities, like Day9 (Starcraft 2 fans probably know him), who clearly enjoys meeting fans and sometimes even goes out of his way to arrive earlier than he needs to at an event or stays until he almost passes out so he can spend more time with them.

By "contributing" in order for the Escapist to meet Yahtzee's extraordinary demands, you are ultimately making one man more miserable (for a few days) and slightly richer, you are boosting his already gargantuan ego and, without knowing it, probably also getting him laid. Whether you will or not is your business.

 

[Ghengis John]

Just $10 will get you the chance.

I really find it hard to enjoy any occasion where others are forced (and especially paid) to endure my company. I think that this falls under that umbrella.

For that matter it doesn't seem like Yahtzee really enjoys... well... people.

Do I really even want to meet an uptight angry snob who probably looks upon me with the same sense of adulation he'd lend a piece of gum stuck to the bottom of his shoe?

 

[Treaos Serrare]

To be fair, I don't think the Escapist is to blame here. I assume they suggested his presence and it's Yahtzee who set some ridiculously high standards for his trip, personal comfort and overall compensation for having to shake the sweaty hands of overly enthusiastic mid-20's manchildren who will then proceed to ask him who is that man with the blank stare in the picture that he uses a whole lot, and generally things he has answered 500 times before until he seriously starts to contemplate suicide.

Personally I don't see the reason to force someone who doesn't belong among crowds to be, well, among crowds, by making him an offer he can't refuse (yes, I know, what I did there, you see it). He is not like other internet personalities, like Day9 (Starcraft 2 fans probably know him), who clearly enjoys meeting fans and sometimes even goes out of his way to arrive earlier than he needs to at an event or stays until he almost passes out so he can spend more time with them.

By "contributing" in order for the Escapist to meet Yahtzee's extraordinary demands, you are ultimately making one man more miserable (for a few days) and slightly richer, you are boosting his already gargantuan ego and, without knowing it, probably also getting him laid. Whether you will or not is your business.

wtf are you talking about? you do realize trans continental flight is retardedly expensive right?
from the nearest coast of australia to the west coast of America would probably eat up all of that 20k for only coach class seats

OT: Holy shit! its like Christmas and an orgy all in one!

 

[Kross]

It's always fun to see a CEO reply to fans/customers. You can't help but wonder, is their way of thinking really that analytical, or do they have four advisers nearby, wearing black cloaks and whispering Satan's bidding in his ears?

I generally like that my CEO applies analytical thinking in the pursuit running a business that pays myself and our other staff money for rent and food.

I've been wanting a cool black cloak for a while though.

 

[Kross]

And people think Yahtzee has piles of money because he keeps telling them he does. Maybe he should reign that in (on places like australian gamer podcasts and ZP reviews) if he wants to ask for money. We know he does well for himself, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who WANTS to go have a bunch of fans asking him to review games. Most of the fans he is asking for money from probably make much less money than he does.

That would be his money, that he earned for his work. We are the ones who are interested in paying to bring him out to meet fans, therefore we are the ones who pay to bring him out. The same way we try to pay for our editorial staff to fly out and have a place to stay at conventions. Not to say they haven't eaten the cost for things many times in the past (especially buying games to review), but we really really try to avoid that.

Alternate version: Conversations don't usually go well that start with "We need you to pay at least $4000 of your own money to fly out here for PAX."

 

[JoelChenFA]

I was the one who recommended that Extra Credits use RocketHub. RocketHub's attorney is a close personal friend of mine. We have been monitoring crowdsourcing as an opportunity for a long time.
That being the case, I commend you for the suggestion and thank you for the answer. It does seem as if your present use of the site was not a result of Extra Credits' initiative, but, rather, both came from a common cause.
All that being said, the success of Extra Credits' initiative is ultimately not tied to any given platform. (Indeed, it might have been higher if it was somewhere other than RocketHub; I seem to recall a fair few people wishing that RocketHub accepted PayPal, as they didn't have credit cards but wanted to donate.) The only reason I asked about the platform issue was to clarify cause and effect in this matter.

James (of Extra Credits) had looked into to doing it on Kickstarter, but Kickstarter refused to do it because they thought it was just a charity. We also looked at doing it via the same method we use for Publisher's Club, but the infrastructure of RocketHub was far better for their purposes.

Are you seriously suggesting that any given action you take is somehow acceptable simply because, as an alternative, you could have always thrown yourself an office party with bacardi and strippers?

Exhausted and sick from not having better treatment than normal. THE HORRORS!


No, I'm suggesting that the action of selling something in exchange for the item PLUS promising to do an event* is actually nicer than just selling something, which is what we usually do.

Also, are you seriously suggesting that sending Yahtzee to PAX will cost you $20,000? What if you only get $10,000 - what will you do then?

In order to have Yahtzee present, we have to pay for his time away from his other business projects. He doesn't actually work for free. We also need to send out a pair of marketing folks and not just two journalists like we normally do. As a business, when we send our employees to travel, we have to cover their food, lodging, and flights - that's simply good business practice.

A round-trip ticket from Australia is usually around $2,000. If we want to fly him business class, so that he's not exhausted and sick when he arrives, the cost jumps to close to $10,000.

The posters have a cost of production of about $5 to $10 and a shipping & handling charge via the fulfillment house of about $5 US and $8 - $12 international, maybe more if it's in a really distant destination.

Finally, we then have to pay for a great fan meet-up with food and drinks in a good venue. Have you ever hosted a corporate event? An event for 50 will easily cost thousands of dollars if you open up the bar. When we hosted E3 parties in LA and GDC parties in SF, the price is close to $50 per person or more. All of this very rapidly adds up.

If we only get $10,000 then... We don't get any money at all. And then we won't produce the posters or fly Yahtzee out. We'll do what we usually we do, which is send a small bare-bones contingent to provide coverage.

I mean... if all you're saying is "I don't think getting a poster at PAX is worth $20" or "meeting Yahtzee isn't worth X" or whatever, well, OK. Um...then you shouldn't participate. I personally think women's shoes are overpriced, but I don't get morally outraged at the idea that some women's shoes are $500.

 

[JoelChenFA]

Call me naive, but I think that the money going towards The Escapist is a good enough cause. I believe that the funders will use the money to benefit the site and get the name out there. I'm mean it's not like they're IGN right? Although, I don't like the idea of paying for someone else's company. That doesn't sit right with me.

I disagree. When you look at places like YouTube, you can see the escapist is very obviously not exploiting the many FREE ways to promote their brand (such as posting previews of each new ZP show a day in advance on YT to build anticipation, for example.) The escapist only seems interested in promoting their brand if they have total and complete control over every aspect of that promotion. There are many websites they could use as an avenue for publicity, but they choose not to (probably to keep their most popular content "exclusive" in the hopes of retaining more fans, when one possible reality could be that it's limiting the growth of their shows by restricting them just to people who visit the escapist.)

Am I missing something here?

Yeah, you're missing:

c) That's how much it costs just to keep The Escapist running for a month.

It's not something we talk about, but it is not cheap or easy to keep a site of this size running, and producing the amount of content that we do. We get by, we don't get rich, and we don't have piles of money laying around to do lots of fun extra things. Not sure why people think we do.

Maybe there are ways to cut costs or manage revenue better? Maybe you have too many shows that aren't profitable enough? Perhaps you could (again) explore free avenues of publicity? Like posting old ZP episodes on your YouTube (since it's your most popular show) in hopes of reviving YT interest, possibly landing a partnership deal or just spreading interest in the escapist beyond its own community?

People are willing to donate for a good cause, but being asked to give 20k over 2 days for an event that you guys definitely could have planned better/made plans in advance for/asked us for money earlier for (and therefore not needed as MUCH, because plane tickets COST LESS when you don't buy them last minute)... Is it any wonder some people just aren't interested or feel annoyed?

And people think Yahtzee has piles of money because he keeps telling them he does. Maybe he should reign that in (on places like australian gamer podcasts and ZP reviews) if he wants to ask for money. We know he does well for himself, and he doesn't strike me as the kind of guy who WANTS to go have a bunch of fans asking him to review games. Most of the fans he is asking for money from probably make much less money than he does.

They should stop paying for crap like Jimquisition.