KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
BrokenTinker said:
Now you've loons that view any criticism against any female as misogyny, on the flip side, you've the equally loonie ones on the MRA screaming shit right back. LGBT communities that are literally at each other throat, where some prefer to keep their sexlives to themselves as long as they've the right to same-sex marriage while you've the ones that keeps declare their sexual orientation in public discussions when no one gives a fuck and when you call them out on it, you'd get called transphobic/homophobic. Then you've parts of the hostile parts of T community active disrupt the L community (womyn festival closing down can be trace back to T), the L+G community wondering why the T actively try to drag them into fights where they don't feel comfortable to butt in since.
The reason there is hostility in between the Trans and the L&G community is because the L&G community keeps tossing us under the bus during legislative pushes. Then there is the underlying current of L&G minorities who believe that trans people are just confused homosexuals, along the line "you're either gay, straight, or lying." Which has caused the trans community to hate be lumped in via sexuality, especially because gender identity and sexuality are separate things, plus every protection we've gotten we've gotten by our selves. Seriously L&G activists have talked such a big game about helping us, then with back room deals tossed our interests out to make legal protections for homosexuals more appealing. You wonder why the LGBT community is considered a misnomer? It's because L&G activists have basically worked really hard to alienate the B and T sections of the larger community. At least bisexual people have gotten protection for their sexuality through this, but every trans protection has been done by exclusively trans activists. That's where the hostility comes from, active discrimination in a community that's supposed to support us.
thaluikhain said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
The unfortunate part of that is that feminism isn't equality in gender rights, even the best feminists only support women's rights, there is nothing done to help lessen the gender biases against men by feminists.
Rubbish.
Firstly, you can't get rid of gender roles without it benefiting all genders, and that is a big part of feminism. Secondly, even if you could, you are seriously suggesting that no feminists support the rights of males? When for example, Gorrath says they are a feminist and support men's rights, they are lying about at least one of those things?
Firstly feminists talk about getting rid of gender roles, but really the talks I've heard about this amount to either allowing gender neutral movement between roles, or is just plain role reversal on a societal level. Most feminists champion making the roles neutral, which is a great ideal, if unrealistic at the moment. Also most feminists, the non-extremist ones, do support men's rights, but as activists they're busy working on women's rights. Now taking a small part of a larger thing I said out of context is kind of a dishonest thing to do, especially if you use it to claim I'm being divisive. What I said was that there are two sides to the gender equality movement, they have different focuses, not that that they're mutually exclusive.
No questions on the legislative front, the only place where Ts are getting a fairshake was Germany I believe (with the 3 official boxes), maybe missed a few other countries. But even before all this (as in late 90s), way before the legislative push, there was already a lot of hostilities between the L+Gs and Ts, so I don't really know all the details. Ts weren't really a thing where I was and I already left by the time they joined (due to the precursors of SJWs). I do keep track of statistics and some arguments, but not enough to faithfully present an informed opinion in this regard of L+G vs T.
There's a lot of thing that doesn't make sense to me though, since there's the claim of feeling of vulnerability from M->F by Ts that's attributed to society even though it's literally a list side-effect of hormonal treatment. The demonization of people that wants to be biological parent (including L+Gs) as somehow discrimination against T (this is one of the thing I accidentally sat through recently and not sure how prevalent it is, I'm still lost whenever I think about). There's also the argument within T community themselves in regards to treatment vs surgery with one side that pushing heavy for reassignment while the others actively push against it, giving younger Ts pre-transition a lot of wtf headaches. On one hand, you've statistic and Ts saying that surgery doesn't help with coping with depression, suicide and dysphoria (sp?), on the other hand, you've Ts claiming that Ts aren't Ts if they don't reassign themselves. This just adds to the clusterfuck (clusterfuckception?).
thaluikhain said:
Certainly, humour can be a way of dealing with a serious issue, only that's not how prison rape is generally depicted. It's a staple of comedy (by comedians whom I seriously doubt have any particular interest of PTSD sufferers, even of those you've decided are "actual" ones), but not nearly so prevalent in serious discussion, except as a useful deterrent for criminals.
"I" don't get to decide neither do self-diagnose/self-claim PTSDs, medical professionals do. The statistics simply don't match up for the amount of "triggered" that's so prevalent on social media and elsewhere. You seem to make quite the connection of coping mechanism = comedians caring about PTSD (despite the fact that some certainly do, forgot the name of the french-canadien that talked extensively about this while keeping it light, also tied in the benefit and side effects of cannabis in relation to mental health), kindly reread what I said. I was putting an EMPHASIS on the importance of coping mechanism.
I'd refute your "staple of comedy" statement since it'd require a VAST MAJORITY of comedians to use it (could be a american-centric thing though, so I wouldn't reject that possibility). Have you talked to comedians though? I mean, serious chats, heck, even watch some of the serious interviews. I'm not sure about the younger ones, but quite a few of them surprise me with their level of insight. Sure, there are assholes there, but that's the same for every aspect of the entertainment industry. You should watch some of the stuff from the cast of monty python (even their newer stuff by the surviving members). By stifling even humour of something is how society create tensions and taboo.
I certainly agree with the lack of prevalence in serious discussion, you've the far right "lock'em and forget'em" disrupting any talks of prisoner rights with no understanding of sexual health. On the 3rd wave feminists side, the pulling of fire alarms when discussion of men issue occurs, to the point that venues refuse to host those talks in the first place.
I do have to ask though, what solution would you propose? Serious talks of the issue is frequently disrupted (I think lobbying by the industry for prison labour might be part of it), and claims that it shouldn't be used in humour at all by people like you, where does it leave it? It's easy to criticize when one doesn't have to present a solution, I mean, even right now, as laymans, we are talking about rape as a result of our definite takes on comedy. It isn't based on lies and manipulation or anything (unlike the UVA and shit), we are seriously talking about rape because of our different views on "hilarity". It's next to impossible to do that normally if we were to arrive at it thru the usual route since it becomes MRA/Feminist/identity politic firework show.