Mentally Ill Teenage Girl Dies From Suffocation During Exorcism
- Thread starter Leg End
- Start date
Glad I could clear that up, then. And, we ultimately do agree in the end for the entirety of that last paragraph, yes.Estelindis said:Well, I agree with you.ShadowsofHope said:I just disputed the idea that religious qualification was equivalent to religious belief, since you appeared to be claiming just that.
For the record, I think that everyone has the right to an opinion on any issue, but if they want the content of that opinion to be respected then they should be ready to back it up. Not necessarily with a PhD, of course, but at the same time they should be willing to be corrected if an expert can offer better insight on the subject (and is willing to explain it, of course, rather than just bludgeoning them with the letters after their name).
It's kind of sad that comments on this report devolve into people arguing about religion.
It's completely irrelevant if the girl was mentally ill or chock full of a wailing demon host.
This story is still ritualistic child abuse and infanticide, nothing more or less.
Murder, that's all. Religion vs Atheism vs Are Demons Real has fuck all to do with it.
It's completely irrelevant if the girl was mentally ill or chock full of a wailing demon host.
This story is still ritualistic child abuse and infanticide, nothing more or less.
Murder, that's all. Religion vs Atheism vs Are Demons Real has fuck all to do with it.
OK can you prove that im not secretly an alien typing this?Duruznik said:
Even if you could, just because a belief can't be disproved doesn't mean it should be respected, exorcisms are one of the things that are impossible to test because they have no grounding in reality
MmmmmmnnnnnnnnngggbbbbbbvvvvvvhhhhhhaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH!
Fuck! The retardedness of some people.
I wish people - when faced with an issue - would take a look at what cause the evidence points towards, and deal with that cause.
At the very least it's good to get a reminder of why dogmatic thinking and rules not based in facts (i.e. organized religion) needs to be done away with.
Fuck! The retardedness of some people.
I wish people - when faced with an issue - would take a look at what cause the evidence points towards, and deal with that cause.
At the very least it's good to get a reminder of why dogmatic thinking and rules not based in facts (i.e. organized religion) needs to be done away with.
- Apr 1, 2009
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Actually they do more exorcisms today then really anytime in the past thanks to them becoming a household name from all the devil/demon possession movies out there. Well, at least christian ones are much more common, I don't know about other religions though.Cowabungaa said:Can you smell that? That's the smell of the 21st century right there. Just shows that human kind really hasn't changed that much since, say the Stone Age.
I actually thought Buddhism was more a more sensible religion, overall, than that. Apparently I was wrong.
Project_Omega said:
Nope, they're done everywhere in almost any religion. Just not on the scale, luckily, as they did, say, two centuries ago.DJDarque said:
Hmm. I wonder what gave you that idea. :]luckycharms8282 said:I see an exorcism in his near futurePirakahunter788 said:
:I
If it was from Japan It's more han likely a Shinto-Buddhist. Shintoism believes in demons AND torture so...Cowabungaa said:
come on captcha a maths fomula?
While you are entitled to your opinion, I question the practicality and morality of what you suggest. To "do away" with something does not mean to simply let it die out, but to actively exterminate it. I assume you're aware that this breach of human rights would be actively opposed by many, including a significant number of atheists and agnostics who believe in the right of every human being to follow their own path?Jonluw said:
Almost correct, he tried to use religion to brainwash the very religious public, when he became dictator he was able to take control of almost all of the churches and use them for propaganda. In basic, he wanted people to revere him as a god and saw that the best way to do that was to manipulate christian beliefs with the Nazis regeme (thats where religious holidays came in), saying that though one of his reasons for the mass genocide of jewish people was basically "the Jews killed Jesus and therefore they should be wiped out". If Hitler had his way however he would of wiped out all of the current religions for one based around worshiping himself.Bluntman1138 said:
Okay, that does it! PLEASE cite an example [with sources], where the result of an exorcism was attributed to successful removal of demon possession. If the "vast majority" was illness-related, there has to be at least a few where the actual result is confirmed as demon-related. Right? Also, for bonus points, the person can't be BOTH mentally ill and have demons. That's just cheating.remnant_phoenix said:
You wouldn't have to do away with it forcefully. I'm not insinuating we should lead some agressive campaign against all religion.Estelindis said:
One way would be to encourage critical thinking and rationality. Wait, why aren't we doing that already?
Causing a shift in society to stick to facts and well proven theories when anything important is concerned needn't be done through methods which infringe on human rights.
I think it does make sense to examine the religion itself. We know in this story that this was a Monk who was acting off-script, according to the story, so we don't have to worry about buddhists in general following this practice. So that's a relief. But what if his entire temple is off-script and shares his belief and other monks from this temple are out there doing this same thing to other young girls. It makes sense to be concerned about the beliefs themselves when those beliefs are the basis of actions that kill little girls.
The monk in question was trying to help the girl. He was wrong to think he could, but he wasn't trying to kill the girl. According to his beliefs he was helping her. His beliefs were the basis for his actions which were the cause of the girl's death. So it makes sense to put some of the blame on the belief and to be worried there might be others out there who share it so that they can be educated as to the danger involved. Its not just that the monk was stupid. The monk held a dangerous belief that he acted upon resulting in an avoidable death.
The reason you don't see this a lot w/atheists (all atheists being blamed when a lone crazy atheist does something stupid) is that atheism is a lack of a belief. All christians, as an example, have in common that they believe in jesus, his divinity, god, the bible, etc... Their belief is what is common to them. Their rituals, their sacraments, often their charity, and some times their less savory actions are often conducted in name of these beliefs. Many of their actions in their lives stem from their beliefs. So we give them a name, christians, categorizing them by their common belief.
But atheists are a group who only have in common 1 thing that they disbelieve. We don't categorize them by what they believe, like we do w/every religion out there, but rather by 1 of the many things they disbelieve. How many of you do not believe in Shiva? How many of you non-Shiva-ists tailor your actions based on this disbelief? How often have you performed a ritual or given charity in the name of your disbelief in Shiva? A non-shiva-ist might give a can of soup to a homeless man, but its likely to be for a reason other than his lack of belief in shiva.
Anyhow, i can see why religious people might feel like their religion is being unfairly painted w/a broad brush due to a lone crazy person who happens to belong to the religion. But when the behavior in question was based upon a religious belief, it makes sense to investigate, to find out how many others share this belief and might also act upon it w/similar results, so as to avoid such an outcome being repeated. This first incident would have been hard for anyone to predict or prevent. But if it were to happen again because we were scared of angering people by questioning their religions beliefs, then the fault would be borne by all of us.
I think it was saint Augustine who said something to the effect that: (paraphrasing because its been over a decade since i read it) -> The christian who stands on the corner preaching that which every learned person knows to be wrong hurts the entire religion by preventing those who would otherwise join the religion from doing so for they will believe the entire religion to be made up of fools. The church should therefore accept new ideas (such as scientific discoveries) or risk alienating the very people the church needs.
The monk in question was trying to help the girl. He was wrong to think he could, but he wasn't trying to kill the girl. According to his beliefs he was helping her. His beliefs were the basis for his actions which were the cause of the girl's death. So it makes sense to put some of the blame on the belief and to be worried there might be others out there who share it so that they can be educated as to the danger involved. Its not just that the monk was stupid. The monk held a dangerous belief that he acted upon resulting in an avoidable death.
The reason you don't see this a lot w/atheists (all atheists being blamed when a lone crazy atheist does something stupid) is that atheism is a lack of a belief. All christians, as an example, have in common that they believe in jesus, his divinity, god, the bible, etc... Their belief is what is common to them. Their rituals, their sacraments, often their charity, and some times their less savory actions are often conducted in name of these beliefs. Many of their actions in their lives stem from their beliefs. So we give them a name, christians, categorizing them by their common belief.
But atheists are a group who only have in common 1 thing that they disbelieve. We don't categorize them by what they believe, like we do w/every religion out there, but rather by 1 of the many things they disbelieve. How many of you do not believe in Shiva? How many of you non-Shiva-ists tailor your actions based on this disbelief? How often have you performed a ritual or given charity in the name of your disbelief in Shiva? A non-shiva-ist might give a can of soup to a homeless man, but its likely to be for a reason other than his lack of belief in shiva.
Anyhow, i can see why religious people might feel like their religion is being unfairly painted w/a broad brush due to a lone crazy person who happens to belong to the religion. But when the behavior in question was based upon a religious belief, it makes sense to investigate, to find out how many others share this belief and might also act upon it w/similar results, so as to avoid such an outcome being repeated. This first incident would have been hard for anyone to predict or prevent. But if it were to happen again because we were scared of angering people by questioning their religions beliefs, then the fault would be borne by all of us.
I think it was saint Augustine who said something to the effect that: (paraphrasing because its been over a decade since i read it) -> The christian who stands on the corner preaching that which every learned person knows to be wrong hurts the entire religion by preventing those who would otherwise join the religion from doing so for they will believe the entire religion to be made up of fools. The church should therefore accept new ideas (such as scientific discoveries) or risk alienating the very people the church needs.
I love how condescending atheists get drawn to these posts, tortured by their subconscious minds with the fear of there maybe being something to religion after all, as a weird inverted mockery of the religious, who do such stupid things, tortured by their subconscious minds that maybe there ISNT something to religion after all. Congratulations to those of you who didn't come to this thread to mock either atheists or religious people. Whatever your beliefs, at least you are secure in them.
Can you perform an exorcism to get rid of a stupidity demon?
This is so sad...people are dead because stupid people still believe in exorcism.
Go see a doctor if you feel "possessed" and go see a psychiatrist if you believe in exorcism.
And afterward, for long term effect, get an education. You'll thank me later.
This is so sad...people are dead because stupid people still believe in exorcism.
Go see a doctor if you feel "possessed" and go see a psychiatrist if you believe in exorcism.
And afterward, for long term effect, get an education. You'll thank me later.