Michelle Rodriguez to Star in Gender-Reassignment Revenge Thriller

LetalisK

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Gender reassignment being used as a plot device in a schlocky Hollywood film in an incredibly contrived and insulting manner? What!? That doesn't sound like the Hollywood I know! They would never misinterpret or abuse a serious issue for entertainment purposes.
 

votemarvel

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The film sounds like "The Skin I Live In" (which is excellent by the way) with added action.

I wonder who they are casting as the assassin before the surgery though? I would hope they pick someone who is at least physically similar to Michelle Rodriguez, after all there is only so much surgery can do.

There is potential here for a good movie though. I hope they don't mess it up.
 

votemarvel

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KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Except for the fact that the ignorant are the majority. Just for example when the news comes out that I'm trans, the first three questions I generally get asked by a cisgender person are as follows: "Are you gay?". "If I saw you naked would I be able to tell?", and "Does this mean you're a pedophile/chomo?" In order they are, not that person's business, not that person's business and inappropriate, and a grievous insult along with being inappropriate and stupid. It's not a what a few ignorant people think, it's what can easily be crammed down the throats of the ignorant masses, because in fact the majority of people are ignorant on trans folk and trans issues. Period.
Surely the fact that they are asking these questions is a good thing? If they were truly close minded then they would be locked into their prejudice and wouldn't care what you had to say.

I can certainly understand that the questions will make you uncomfortable but I would hope they are coming from a desire to learn, and not to upset.
 

ThatOtherGirl

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votemarvel said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Except for the fact that the ignorant are the majority. Just for example when the news comes out that I'm trans, the first three questions I generally get asked by a cisgender person are as follows: "Are you gay?". "If I saw you naked would I be able to tell?", and "Does this mean you're a pedophile/chomo?" In order they are, not that person's business, not that person's business and inappropriate, and a grievous insult along with being inappropriate and stupid. It's not a what a few ignorant people think, it's what can easily be crammed down the throats of the ignorant masses, because in fact the majority of people are ignorant on trans folk and trans issues. Period.
Surely the fact that they are asking these questions is a good thing? If they were truly close minded then they would be locked into their prejudice and wouldn't care what you had to say.

I can certainly understand that the questions will make you uncomfortable but I would hope they are coming from a desire to learn, and not to upset.
Well it depends on what you mean by good thing. Lets say somehow a person finds out some internet friend they have is black, and their first questions are "So you must be really good at basket ball, right?", "What do your genitals look like?", and "Does this mean you rape white women?". Even if it is done in an open minded spirit of inquiry I think you would be hard pressed to spin a person asking those things as good.

And that is all assuming these questions are asked in a fair minded spirit of inquiry and not out of maliciousness.

I was recently told that if a certain family knew I was trans that they would almost certainly shut me out of their lives. I was told this was understandable, fair, and appropriate because people "have to protect their children" and even if I specifically am not a pedophile it is just "fact" that trans people are often that way, so they can't take the risk.

So yes, it is nice that people are at least willing to give us a chance to say "No I won't rape your child" but if they feel the need to ask they rarely believe us.
 

Oakleigh8

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Personal Conjecture:

I would say that trans issue are definitely not well understood by the genera public. Sensible folks probably would not use a fictional movie as a credible source of trans experiences without additionally doing independent research. The issue is, not a lot of people are sensible. And in a way, mass media shows what is acceptable and what isn't, and how to perceive issues. Not everyone buys into it and its nothing like mind control, but it is a pervasive subtle influence.

As a trans person I feel pretty uncomfortable about this movie. With the exceptions of a few movies that centered on the lives on transgender individuals, most depict trans people in a terrible light: as a punch line, a liar for living their gender, something less than human, even when they pass completely as their identified gender.

My Best Understanding:

Something else too, just to clarify things. There are a lot of interpretations of these terms but I think this is the most prevalent version.

Cross-dresser: person who wears clothes of a gender their don't typically identify as

Transsexual: a person who presents as a gender they typically don't identify as and performs sexual acts while presenting (hence the "sex" in the word)

Transgender: a person who does not identify with their biological sex and gender, and instead they identify as the opposite. This is a prevalent phenomena that is constantly present within the individuals life-time and may increase in intensity as the individual ages (due to the effects of their biological hormones). The feeling of disassociation with gender (and biological sex) is known as gender dysphoria, and it can cause great mental duress.

The intensity and nuance of gender dysphoria depends on the person, but it generally hinders their ability to be a functional member of society. The treatment for gender dysphoria is often therapy and transitioning, which alleviates the disassociation with their body and the gender they are expected to present as due to their biological sex. The treatment is not for being transgender.

Post-transition suicide rates have been noted to be lower than pre-transition suicide rates for transgender people, however they are still higher than the population average.

Personal Conjecture:

I would reckon this is due to a lifetime of mental stress, from gender dysphoria and society stigma, and how transitioning becomes such a focal point in a transgender persons life once they begin that finishing the process leaves a big gaping hole in their goals and ambitions. This is why I think therapy is important throughout the process, so the person is able to have other professional and life goals and ambitions to drive them, so that it is only a part of their experience, that once complete will allow them to continue moving forward and living their life.

Also people are similar but each person has odd peculiarities and mutations, just a part of reproduction and a sufficiently large society. It sucks that I have a few crossed wires in my brain, whether due to genetics, epigenetics in utero, or who knows what, but I am able to be a more functional member of society with the right treatment. Transitioning is a treatment for gender dysphoria, not being transgender.

Seems like there are a lot more transgender people nowadays, well we've always been here. It's just we either transitioned successfully, transitioned poorly and were noticeable/committed suicide/lived entire life with severe depression, or didn't transition and committed suicide/lived entire life with severe depression. Fun fun fun. At least now people are feeling more comfortable with being who they are without the fear of death or violence. Which I think is good, society should try to enable it's members to be as effective as they can be, within reasonable resource allocations, so they can provide benefits to society (i.e. taxes, volunteering, etc)

A great deal of the mental duress I have experienced comes from how society handles my issue and treats people like me. It definitely compounds the stress of gender dysphoria. Once I started transitioning and began taking estrogen, I felt very different. I had more energy than before, colors seemed brighter, smell more prominent, and for the first time in my life the way I felt was just right, although my body was still not. It went a long way to alleviating a lot of the stress I carried from being transgender, and the process of transitioning has continued to do so. In a way it was like my brain was an engine that was built for running gasoline but was given diesel fuel.

So yeah being transgender sucks, and it has gotten better. But just because things have improved doesn't mean people should shut up about it because it's not something someone wants to hear. There is still a long way to go not only for trans people, but for a variety of folks. And we on the shit end of the stick have to work hard too, we can't just sit around complaining and hoping for people to fix it. It's a two way street, we have to be the change we wanna see, and we have to set a high standard to get the positive attention and respect that'll improve things.

TLDR; I didn't choose the thug life, the thug life chose me.

(P.S. I had no intention of coming across as condescending or demanding, and if that is how the previous passage is interpreted then I am disappointed in my composition. This was only intended as a mix of my knowledge and personal views and experiences on the issue. There was no intention of judging or attack other posters, rather it was an attempt to explain and inform in a helpful and personable manner)
 

votemarvel

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ThatOtherGirl said:
Well it depends on what you mean by good thing. Lets say somehow a person finds out some internet friend they have is black, and their first questions are "So you must be really good at basket ball, right?", "What do your genitals look like?", and "Does this mean you rape white women?". Even if it is done in an open minded spirit of inquiry I think you would be hard pressed to spin a person asking those things as good.

And that is all assuming these questions are asked in a fair minded spirit of inquiry and not out of maliciousness.

I was recently told that if a certain family knew I was trans that they would almost certainly shut me out of their lives. I was told this was understandable, fair, and appropriate because people "have to protect their children" and even if I specifically am not a pedophile it is just "fact" that trans people are often that way, so they can't take the risk.

So yes, it is nice that people are at least willing to give us a chance to say "No I won't rape your child" but if they feel the need to ask they rarely believe us.
But how do people find out more without asking questions? Quite often prejudice is simply born from a lack of knowledge.

Perhaps I am looking at them asking questions as a positive thing. I suppose I'd just like to think the good in people for a change.
 

ThatOtherGirl

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votemarvel said:
ThatOtherGirl said:
Well it depends on what you mean by good thing. Lets say somehow a person finds out some internet friend they have is black, and their first questions are "So you must be really good at basket ball, right?", "What do your genitals look like?", and "Does this mean you rape white women?". Even if it is done in an open minded spirit of inquiry I think you would be hard pressed to spin a person asking those things as good.

And that is all assuming these questions are asked in a fair minded spirit of inquiry and not out of maliciousness.

I was recently told that if a certain family knew I was trans that they would almost certainly shut me out of their lives. I was told this was understandable, fair, and appropriate because people "have to protect their children" and even if I specifically am not a pedophile it is just "fact" that trans people are often that way, so they can't take the risk.

So yes, it is nice that people are at least willing to give us a chance to say "No I won't rape your child" but if they feel the need to ask they rarely believe us.
But how do people find out more without asking questions? Quite often prejudice is simply born from a lack of knowledge.

Perhaps I am looking at them asking questions as a positive thing. I suppose I'd just like to think the good in people for a change.
Like I said, it is nice people are actually asking the question at this point. Whether or not it is motivated by a desire to learn and understand varies from individual to individual. Some are actively being malicious with questions like that. Others are just ignorant. Some are looking for an excuse to hate you. But lets just assume everyone who asks things like that is sincere and just trying to understand.

Yes, it is strictly better that they ask (even if they are just going to not believe you) than if they just assume you are a pedophile. But strictly better is not the same thing as good. When you confide in someone you have known very well (like a sibling) for 25 years that you are trans and the first thing they ask is "Are you a pedophile?" it is a bad thing. They know you, they have spent 25 years getting to know you. But all of that goes out of the window because they heard that trans people are perverts that will rape their children. The fact that prejudice, ignorance, and hearsay has so much sway that it overrides or at least equals years of personal experience with a person is not a good thing.

The problem is not that they ask the question. The asking is good and is a sign of improvement as you recognize. I am so glad people ask now instead of just assume. It is worlds better than it was even a few years ago.

The problem is that the fact they even need to ask (and in particular that it is the very first thing that jumps to mind) indicates the pervasiveness of prejudice and ignorance and how much sway negative and misleading portrayals of trans people have.

TL:DR Them being willing to ask the question is good. That they have to ask the question is bad.
 

Jingle Fett

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I don't see the problem with this. Transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria so they want to change their bodies so they no longer have the dysphoria. Well the protagonist of this movie has his body changed by the mob--which inherently causes gender dysphoria because his body no longer matches his mental gender.

If anything the LGBT community should be applauding this movie since it's a chance for cis people to get a better idea of what gender dysphoria feels like.
 

IamLEAM1983

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I tried outrage when I first read this, and then I realized that this movie isn't being made to further the Trans cause. It's being made to disturb a particular segment of the cisgendered populace that might look at this plotline and go "Gender reassignment surgery equals Body Horror!" The fact that this transition is unwanted is also a concern, but then I'd just accuse the screenwriters of shitting out a mob-centric actiony take on "The Skin I Live In".

"La Piel Que Me Habito" takes this same basic premise and actually does something sensible with it. Sensible, yes, and accurately horrifying.
 

Olas

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It's a movie people, calm down.
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Baresark said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
If you think people are so bad, that is your burden to bear, but it's an ignorant opinion. People are far more accepting of alternate lifestyles than people like give them credit for. If you don't see that, that is on you. I never said there were hurdles to go over, or problems to fix, but to say what you say wreaks of ignorance of the significant changes that have occurred only the last 30 years.
Considering that I have gay and lesbian friends who have lost jobs and housing for their sexuality, considering that I was slowly tortured to keep a job because I was out as trans before my identification caught up to me... That very situation lost me my job... Oh and it being illegal to discriminate on the grounds of sexuality, or really anything else in housing and work? Well guess what? That requires taking legal action, which most people in the LGBTIQ+ community cannot afford. It didn't stop many of my friends, or my self for that matter, from losing jobs, or/and becoming homeless... It hasn't stopped many of the friends I have who lead alternative life styles from being beaten, or persecuted by their friends and families when they came out. The significant changes you cite, are a fiction... You call me, someone whose lived such experiences, someone who knows many, many others who have lived similar and worse experiences ignorant? No, you're the one being ignorant here. If you think the mistreatment has ended because a few laws have passed and a few celebrities are out and in the open with it... You're spouting the same line as people who say racism is over, and it's a line of total and complete isolation from, as well as ignorance of the issues that face people in reality.
You know it's quite possible that you're both right. Some places are more progressive than others, you can't just make sweeping statements about "people" as if the entire world is on the same page.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Olas said:
It's a movie people, calm down.
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Baresark said:
KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
If you think people are so bad, that is your burden to bear, but it's an ignorant opinion. People are far more accepting of alternate lifestyles than people like give them credit for. If you don't see that, that is on you. I never said there were hurdles to go over, or problems to fix, but to say what you say wreaks of ignorance of the significant changes that have occurred only the last 30 years.
Considering that I have gay and lesbian friends who have lost jobs and housing for their sexuality, considering that I was slowly tortured to keep a job because I was out as trans before my identification caught up to me... That very situation lost me my job... Oh and it being illegal to discriminate on the grounds of sexuality, or really anything else in housing and work? Well guess what? That requires taking legal action, which most people in the LGBTIQ+ community cannot afford. It didn't stop many of my friends, or my self for that matter, from losing jobs, or/and becoming homeless... It hasn't stopped many of the friends I have who lead alternative life styles from being beaten, or persecuted by their friends and families when they came out. The significant changes you cite, are a fiction... You call me, someone whose lived such experiences, someone who knows many, many others who have lived similar and worse experiences ignorant? No, you're the one being ignorant here. If you think the mistreatment has ended because a few laws have passed and a few celebrities are out and in the open with it... You're spouting the same line as people who say racism is over, and it's a line of total and complete isolation from, as well as ignorance of the issues that face people in reality.
You know it's quite possible that you're both right. Some places are more progressive than others, you can't just make sweeping statements about "people" as if the entire world is on the same page.

Same page? Mate I'd consider it a major event if the world as a whole got around to at least reading the same book.
 

pookie101

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there are only four reasons hollywood uses transgender people in a story:
a. lets laugh at the freak
b. person is dating someone and friends discover they are transgender so we must warn out friend about the freak dilemma
c. something for characters to throw up about
4. they are dangerous nutjobs

this is different but still tacky to say the least. hell the last time i actually saw a transgender person treated half way decent on a tv show was twin peaks.

people ask whats the issue, why judge it before its seen. well when hollywood has the history it does when it comes to transgender people you cant expect people to react otherwise

hell its only recently they have started treating gay people like you know .. human beings in media
 

Strazdas

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Talk about biased writting....

no, San Diego State University or Federal Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, there is nothing you can do, because they are not breaking any laws and can make movies with whatever characters they want. even if you dont like them.

Ihateregistering1 said:
I just don't get this weirdly selective outrage regarding gender % in certain industries. No one seems to care that women make up a tiny minority of oil field workers and chemical engineers, and no one seems to care that men make up a tiny minority of elementary school teachers and Nurses, yet somehow when Hollywood isn't 50/50 it's a cause for mass hysteria.
Oi, got an answer to that one. Because being a oil field worker or chemical engineer dont get to smile in front of the camera and tell everyone how their ideology is the best thing ever!

JaredJones said:
The "news" here is that Rodriguez was cast in a controversial movie that is (perhaps prematurely) receiving backlash from the community it is attempting to spotlight. That is absolutely news.
The casting decision would be news for a website that reports on casting decisions. Now, unless i suddenly dropped though a space-time continuum and appeared in a different universe, Escapist is not that kind of website. The only other case like this i remmeber was a hit-piece regarding The Female Ghostbusters casting.

The "outrage" (also known as a few stupid angry people on twitter) here is not news. There is a reason they are called "perpetually offended crowd". they are always outraged.

Redryhno said:
Sounds like a silly movie with a silly premise with an action backdrop and Michelle Rodriguez is involved. Count me in. If nothing else, it's going to be a laugh and a half.
basically what i thought about Face/off (mentioned in OP) and i enjoyed that movie. ill probably watch this as well.




hazydawn said:
That is even more contrived than the actual plot of the movie. The vast majority of people can easily separate fantasy from reality, no one is going to confuse this movie for a documentary or biopic about transgender assassin. The public understands it just fine when it comes to how we are all supposed to perceive it. They are beautiful and brave human beings that are well beyond criticism as humans as they are the latest protected class in western society. No one is going to be confused by this. No one is going to think this is real or that this represents transgender people.
looking purely at games released in 2013 and 2014, in majority of cases you are either playing as not a human or you can choose the sex of the character (or both sexes are available as predefined characters). From some data i collected it looks like less than 30% of games force you into a specific gender human (either male or female), though out of those that do, males do dominate. maybe you should just play a different game?

CrystalShadow said:
I don't quite think you understand the premise here.
This is someone that appears to have had surgery against their will.

That's just plain messed up, and has so many horrible implications...
The premise here is standard revenge story. Bad guy X does something horible to Good Guy Y. Good Guy Y goes on revenge rampage and kills Bad guy X. its just that in this case the horrible thing is a sex change operation instead of the more traditional killing of wife and/or children.
 

happyninja42

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pookie101 said:
this is different but still tacky to say the least. hell the last time i actually saw a transgender person treated half way decent on a tv show was twin peaks.
Then I suggest you watch Sense8. It's a show partially written/directed/produced by a transgender woman, includes a transgender character, who is played by a transgender actress.
 

pookie101

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Happyninja42 said:
pookie101 said:
this is different but still tacky to say the least. hell the last time i actually saw a transgender person treated half way decent on a tv show was twin peaks.
Then I suggest you watch Sense8. It's a show partially written/directed/produced by a transgender woman, includes a transgender character, who is played by a transgender actress.
thanks for the recommendation ill check it out
 

Lupine

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IamLEAM1983 said:
I tried outrage when I first read this, and then I realized that this movie isn't being made to further the Trans cause. It's being made to disturb a particular segment of the cisgendered populace that might look at this plotline and go "Gender reassignment surgery equals Body Horror!" The fact that this transition is unwanted is also a concern, but then I'd just accuse the screenwriters of shitting out a mob-centric actiony take on "The Skin I Live In".

"La Piel Que Me Habito" takes this same basic premise and actually does something sensible with it. Sensible, yes, and accurately horrifying.
Honestly what I thought myself. The thing is though I think while this movie could very easily go into terrible territory rather quickly or play this for body horror/a joke. Depending on the writing though I could see it taking a Kill Bill style twist where by the end of the movie maybe you empathize with the villains, maybe the hero learns a lesson about himself turned herself, her place in the world, and maybe it does actually tackle subjects of gender dysphoria and prejudice. Don't get me wrong I assume it is gonna be B-movie action schlock; but I feel like it could have a lot of interesting things to say if done right and if they really do want it to be a bit of a grindhouse style film, that doesn't automatically force it to be a stupid one or an unaware one. I think the best thing this movie could do would be to subvert audience expectations and could be courting controversy for this very reason.

So I feel like a lot of people in the wait and see bandwagon are probably right on this one.
 

ThatOtherGirl

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Jingle Fett said:
I don't see the problem with this. Transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria so they want to change their bodies so they no longer have the dysphoria. Well the protagonist of this movie has his body changed by the mob--which inherently causes gender dysphoria because his body no longer matches his mental gender.

If anything the LGBT community should be applauding this movie since it's a chance for cis people to get a better idea of what gender dysphoria feels like.
"It's disappointing to see filmmakers turning what is a life-saving medical procedure for transgender people into a sensationalistic plot device."

That was the actual comment by GLAAD.

Really, I have not heard a single trans person say anything about this movie outside of the GLAAD two sentence expression of disappointment and in response to people getting mad at us for being outraged. People see a small paragraph of a statement saying "this is kind of disappointing and probably not the best for the trans movement." and twist it into us marching on Hollywood pitchforks and torches in hand.

Basically, the outrage is really people getting mad at us because they imagined we are mad.

I for one don't care about this movie. It's exploitative of the headlines trans people are getting these days and the idea that it will carry any value as a tool for cis people to understand trans people seems incredibly unlikely, but whatever. I doubt it will do any damage, and this sort of movie being made helps normalize the idea of trans issues, meaning it can be discussed. The worst thing that can happen for trans issues is for the subject to remain taboo.

So I figure at worst it is going to be a wash, neither a good or bad thing.
 

Lightknight

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Loethlin said:
Lightknight said:
Loethlin said:
Didn't realise transploitation is a thing these days.
People have begun to confuse depiction with exploitation.
No, this is exploitation. THIS [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3007302/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_11] is depiction. A lovely, touching movie with trans protagonist. See the difference?
By lovely, I don't mean funny, btw. It's lovely bc of the way it handles the subject.
Even if a depiction is an offensive one does not make it exploitation. A person have a sex change operation against their will is an interesting depiction. Couldn't care less if anyone finds that offensive, offensiveness isn't what makes it exploitative.
 

ThatOtherGirl

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Lightknight said:
Loethlin said:
Lightknight said:
Loethlin said:
Didn't realise transploitation is a thing these days.
People have begun to confuse depiction with exploitation.
No, this is exploitation. THIS [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3007302/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_11] is depiction. A lovely, touching movie with trans protagonist. See the difference?
By lovely, I don't mean funny, btw. It's lovely bc of the way it handles the subject.
Even if a depiction is an offensive one does not make it exploitation. A person have a sex change operation against their will is an interesting depiction. Couldn't care less if anyone finds that offensive, offensiveness isn't what makes it exploitative.
You are right, exploitation films are not based on the offensiveness of the material. Exploitation films are films that take advantage of trending or niche subject matter in a shocking or sensational manner in order to generate public interest (and therefore ticket sales.)

This is a movie riding the recent wave of publicity of trans issues and doing it in a deliberately shocking and sensational manner in order to generate public interest (and therefore ticket sales).

The movie fits the definition of an exploitation film. It is practically a text book example. That doesn't necessarily make it bad, but it is what it is.