Michelle Rodriguez to Star in Gender-Reassignment Revenge Thriller

[Loethlin]

Didn't realise transploitation is a thing these days.

People have begun to confuse depiction with exploitation.

No, this is exploitation. THIS [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3007302/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_11] is depiction. A lovely, touching movie with trans protagonist. See the difference?
By lovely, I don't mean funny, btw. It's lovely bc of the way it handles the subject.

 

[happyninja42]

But, I can't think of any examples, other than Nomi from Sense8, and the main character of the tv show Transparent (never watched the show, just heard about it).

I haven't seen Transparent nor Sense8 so I can't speak on either of them (though I have no interest in Transparent) but Predestination [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2397535/?ref_=nm_flmg_act_12], which was a decent enough film for what it was, featured a character who was a transgender. There's definitely some inaccuracies but I suppose it could be considered a "positive" example. Well, sort of.

Spoiler: Minor spoiler regarding inaccuracies.

So the trans man eventually get swimmers, somehow. Not possible today, let alone in the 1960s', which is when the event occurs. Also while its clear the character experienced gender dysphoria the sex reassignment was performed on them against their will because doctors can't just stich you up and wit until you wake up.

Spoiler: Some people might not consider it positive for this reason though, major spoiler.

The transgender man ends up turning into a serial killer though, albeit not a psychotic sort. The movie tries to frame it as being arguably justified. They're serial killer in the same way somebody who would go back in time to kill the people who worked on the Manhatten Project to prevent a nuclear holocaust is a serial killer, not the Buffalo Bill/Alfred Ashford/whoeveritwasfromAceVentura sort.

Spoiler: Responding to your spoiled stuff

....I...heh, yeah, well, I find it funny that you try to use a character that is apparently a serial killer as a "positive" example of a transgender. I also find it funny that you try to make them sound like less of an evil person by saying. "Yeah she's a serial killer, but not a psychotic one" xD I'm not being sarcastic here, I genuinely found those amusing, while at the same time I disagree. I wouldn't call a character who is a serial killer as a positive example of any kind. Dexter for example, might be a fun protagonist in a show, but I wouldn't at all consider him a role model, or a good example of people with emotional disconnection issues due to PTSD. xD

On a different note, what is a "swimmer" ? You describe it as some kind of operation perhaps? I dunno, the context of it confuses me, and I'm not familiar with the lingo for the transgender community about operations and whatnot.

Also, I think another thing, aside from the "trans people are always portrayed as villains/killers" is the other flip side of this of "trans people are always portrayed as mentally messed up" Forget the moral justification of a character killing others for one reason or another, the various examples (aside from the two I mentioned in my above post) of trans characters I can think of, all had a serious mental issue, usually linked to their gender issues in the movie. Now if you are constantly showing a group of people as being mentally unstable, and either due to ignorance, or intentional action, imply that it's because of their gender identity issues, you are again coloring the public narrative about the subject in a negative way. Which is what they are upset about. And if I hadn't seen first hand, examples of people who believe what they've seen on TV and movies as being reality, I would be less concerned with this. But I've met multiple people, who believe some frankly disturbing and terrifying things, because that's how they always see it on TV. So it must be true right? So what would they think if the only trans characters they see are either insane killers, or just regular crazy/insane without the body count?

Similar to the "Villains are always played by British people" trope, this might actually be something for Brits to ***** about, if there weren't plenty of other examples of British characters being upstanding people, or just regular people in general. There is a broad spectrum of examples of them, not just one type. But with trans characters, currently, there is very little diversity in representation in media. So yes, they are pushing to put more positive examples out there, to balance out the negative ones.

At what point will it be "ok" to represent them as whatever without causing a social tornado? Probably never. But I don't see that for any group really. No matter the demographic, when they see their group, specifically represented in a negative way, intentionally focusing on their groups aspect as part of the negativity, yeah it's going to upset them. This isn't a LGBTQ specific behavior, we all do this to some degree or other. If people made another "Trekkies" movie with the same level of inconsideration to the people represented, you can be damn sure that the Trek community will hit the social medias to say "We're not all like that! Stop showing us as being closeted, basement dwelling nerds!" *shrugs* That's just the reality of living in a world with global communication systems and free speech. People are going to say stuff that other people might not want to hear.

Sidenote: You should check out Sense8. I really enjoyed the show. I seem to be in a minority in that regard of people on this site, but I found the show quite enjoyable. Not sure if you are interested in transgender/LGBTQ subjects specifically, or just participating in the discussion, but if you do enjoy those types of characters, I would recommend it. I think they did a pretty good job with the gay and trans characters presented in the show. They let them have their sexual identity without it being the only aspect of who they are in the show. They also had some of the funniest bits in my opinion. xD

 

[Baresark]

I hate to be the one to inform you but people do not need a reason to justify their prejudices.

Except that some people just believe what they see. Some people are simply ignorant. Some people are bigoted assholes and others are ignorant and/or stupid, generally not knowing any better because trans people don't exactly go around announcing their presence to others.

The vast majority of people CAN in fact tell the difference between fantasy and reality.

Then how do you justify not the bigots but the plainly ignorant who think of Buffalo Bill and the ilk as accurate representations of transgender people?

Hey, you remember back in the 1950s' where there were PSAs about how homosexuals were child molestors? When you couldn't show a film in a movie that had a homosexual character unless unless they got some sort of comeuppance for being gay? When there were tons of bullshit science trying to pin homosexuals as child predators? When over half the population thought that being gay should be illegal, nevermind that it was illegal in some places? When nobody knew anybody who was openly gay to challenge these ideas because being gay was still heavily stigmatized to the point that you could easily be put in life-threatening danger simply by being out of the closet? How do you think public perception of gay people changed between 1950 and 2015? It wasn't from people sitting around with thumbs their arses.

So far as Buffalo Bill is concerned: People have created a world where villains are not allowed to be interesting or different. Because they are a villain AND they are trans/gay/etc, they are not allowed to exist.

Maybe because for decades going back to a time not so long ago you literally couldn't show a queer person who wasn't a villain? Maybe because even to this day some of these peple are still far more likely to be portrayed as a dangerous child predator than anything else? Maybe because people believe this, and that this sort of ignorance has led to social ostracization, assault and murder of said people gorups? They still do the "these people will rape your children if they're allowed to use the bathroom and teach your kids" ad campaigns on television and in newspapers whenever anti-discrimation legislation comes up?

There is no reasonable person in the west who sees that as a true representation of a transgender person.

a) Yes there are.

b) Doesn't matter, because regardless of that people are still voting on the rights of LGBTQ people.

But I am not going to sit here and say, "OK, because 0.01% of the population thinks this is an accurate representation of a given population, then no one should be allowed to see it".

Did you even bother reading what I said?

"I'm not saying that the movie shouldn't be made or whatever"

I mean, is that not what this wreck of a movie is trying to do? Even if it is extremely heavy handed, it's putting a trans character in the role of a protagonist.

Its explicitly not a transgender character, and the fact that you think it is just proves my point about this type of stuff misinforming people.

I'm sorry, I can't play that game where I break down every statement, it's not ever worth the time or effort, you should probably keep that in mind.

1. Yes, some people are ignorant. I personally feel that most people are not though. That is my opinion and we may just have to agree to disagree. We can't have society run on what a few ignorant people will think when the majority understand the situation.

2. We have come a long way from the 1950's. It was in '72 when homosexuality was taken out of the DSM, we have also moved significantly forward from that point. Even in light of how far we have progressed from those times, people still choose to believe that homosexual men are synonymous with child molesters. No amount of political correction in movies, television, books, the internet... will change those peoples minds.

I don't have to justify what ignorant people choose to believe, and that is really the main issue. They choose to believe it. If they want to see a more accurate depiction of any of the LGBT community, there are literally a bunch of alternate TV stations they could watch to see that. That means that no matter how much you wipe out bad depictions, they may simply choose to not watch the accurate depictions that exist because it doesn't fit their narrative or what they want to believe. And furthermore, media should not lower itself to creating content to correct the lowest common denominator, which in this case would be bigots who have chosen to ignore the truth and believe the fantasy. Should we make sure no one puts dragons in movies because there may be some people out there who think dragons are real because of it? No, that doesn't make any sense.

3. I never stated transgender in relation to the main character. The main character IS an unwilling participant in what turns them into a Transsexual. I completely understand the difference between the two. Gender and sex, while overlapping in some ways are not the same thing. You are the one who is misinformed here, not I. I intentionally typed that in that manner so as not to exclude anyone from my statement because it stands in both cases in my opinion.

4. When I stated reasonable people, that means they live their lives and make decisions based on reason. So, no, no reasonable person would see a bad depictions of of the LGBT community in a movie and think that is accurate. If they do, they are not using reason, therefore are not reasonable people.

5. A movie isn't going to make someone who thinks LGBT people are lesser people vote against them. Just like if we only were privy to truly accurate depictions of these people, then those same people would still not vote in favor of their rights.

 

[happyninja42]

Then there's shit like Jared Leto getting a Oscar for playing a drag queen. The character was a drage queen, but then they decided the character would be transgender (without ever actually once referring them to as a transgender character because he seems wigged out by it) without changing any of the script to accomodate it. They literally took a drag queen (who didn't even exist in real life) slapped "transgender" on the character and then hollywood gave the actor an Oscar and slapped themselves on the back for being super progressive.

Yeah, I've heard about that particular movie, and the issues with it. Never seen it myself, as I didn't find the story to be too interesting. Movies about sexual identity and coming to terms with who you are, aren't my kind of movie that I seek out. *shrugs* Has nothing to do with the persons orientation, I just don't find those kind of movies all that interesting.

All that said movies are still probably better off than games. There's maybe four whole decent depictions in all of mainstream gaming that I'm aware of, and one of them doesn't apply outside of Japan (Vivian from Paper Mario: The Thousand Year Door). These types of extreme castration films, while they have some negative implications and side-effects, aren't outright ridiculing transgender people or the characters within.

Probably is. Video games do tend to streamline characters down to a single characteristic even more than movies/tv do.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

1. Yes, some people are ignorant. I personally feel that most people are not though. That is my opinion and we may just have to agree to disagree. We can't have society run on what a few ignorant people will think when the majority understand the situation.

Except for the fact that the ignorant are the majority. Just for example when the news comes out that I'm trans, the first three questions I generally get asked by a cisgender person are as follows: "Are you gay?". "If I saw you naked would I be able to tell?", and "Does this mean you're a pedophile/chomo?" In order they are, not that person's business, not that person's business and inappropriate, and a grievous insult along with being inappropriate and stupid. It's not a what a few ignorant people think, it's what can easily be crammed down the throats of the ignorant masses, because in fact the majority of people are ignorant on trans folk and trans issues. Period.

2. We have come a long way from the 1950's. It was in '72 when homosexuality was taken out of the DSM, we have also moved significantly forward from that point. Even in light of how far we have progressed from those times, people still choose to believe that homosexual men are synonymous with child molesters. No amount of political correction in movies, television, books, the internet... will change those peoples minds.

Except that the overtly bigoted preach to ignorant masses, who generally can be swayed with ignorant and hate hateful diatribes into voting for those bigots. When it comes to trans acceptance we haven't progressed much, and the L&G part of the LGBTIQ+ Community generally works against all parts that aren't directly the L&G factions. Infact trans acceptances has sort of back slid because of a constant assault from our supposed L&G allies.

I don't have to justify what ignorant people choose to believe, and that is really the main issue. They choose to believe it. If they want to see a more accurate depiction of any of the LGBT community, there are literally a bunch of alternate TV stations they could watch to see that. That means that no matter how much you wipe out bad depictions, they may simply choose to not watch the accurate depictions that exist because it doesn't fit their narrative or what they want to believe. And furthermore, media should not lower itself to creating content to correct the lowest common denominator, which in this case would be bigots who have chosen to ignore the truth and believe the fantasy. Should we make sure no one puts dragons in movies because there may be some people out there who think dragons are real because of it? No, that doesn't make any sense.

1) You don't have to justify the opinion of anyone else, or your own for that matter. Still that doesn't mean you get free reign to decide if an issue important to the trans community is indeed important.
2) Alternative TV stations seem great, except they're generally not included in extended basic cable, which is what most people have, and most people don't know of their existance, let alone know if they want to watch them.
3) Your non-sequitur argument about adds nothing, because there aren't real dragons who get attacked in the streets by bigots using fictional depictions to weaponize their own hatred. Because it's not about believing a fantasy, it's about using fiction as a valid defense for one's own bias, which is generally accepted by the majority of people.

3. I never stated transgender in relation to the main character. The main character IS an unwilling participant in what turns them into a Transsexual. I completely understand the difference between the two. Gender and sex, while overlapping in some ways are not the same thing. You are the one who is misinformed here, not I. I intentionally typed that in that manner so as not to exclude anyone from my statement because it stands in both cases in my opinion.

The problem that the character isn't transsexual, transsexuals are ones who actively seek sexual reassignment surgery, getting the surgery actually doesn't have a baring. The character is mutilated by a rogue surgeon. Still this is going to be used to reinforce the bias of many loud bigots with political platforms, the utilization will undoubtedly splash back badly on the trans community, there is no question about this. It's been done with too many other bad representations, it'll be done with this one, and like in the past, this method still works.

4. When I stated reasonable people, that means they live their lives and make decisions based on reason. So, no, no reasonable person would see a bad depictions of of the LGBT community in a movie and think that is accurate. If they do, they are not using reason, therefore are not reasonable people.

A person is reasonable, people are not, besides the methods that are going to be used in conjunction with attacks using this bad representation are not going to be appeals to reason. Because attacks on the LGBTIQ+ community, especially the trans community are never reasonable, they usually rely on faith, and they generally work. Because when it comes right down to it, ignorance spawns fear, fear is unreasonable, and it's not hard to exploit that, even with blatant lies.

5. A movie isn't going to make someone who thinks LGBT people are lesser people vote against them. Just like if we only were privy to truly accurate depictions of these people, then those same people would still not vote in favor of their rights.

The problem is that a the representation by it self is not the key problem, it's how it's going to be added to an assortment of weapons that are being used to deny a segment of the population rights. The trans community is actively denied rights too, companies can refuse to hire me, I can be refused service at any business, I can be refused housing, and so on, all because I'm trans and it's still legal to discriminate against trans folk. A bad, or good representation is not going to change anyone's mind, but it's effective as another tool against, or for the subject in question.

On Topic: Well this figures. It's a stupid plot, with stupid ideas about what it takes to transition, and it's being used in a blatantly offensive matter that people will fail to fully wrap their heads around. While this is going to be just another tool for the anti-trans types, it's not the worst thing that ever happened to the trans community. Still it's massively insulting, while at the same time it highlights the nasty shortsighted transphobic notions still being clung to in film and television. That last part is the worst part, that media still refuses to take us seriously, which in turn helps everyone not take us seriously either. It's really depressing and frustrating that the trans community is still a joke and an easily exploited stereotype to so many.

 

[Baresark]

snip

If you think people are so bad, that is your burden to bear, but it's an ignorant opinion. People are far more accepting of alternate lifestyles than people like give them credit for. If you don't see that, that is on you. I never said there were hurdles to go over, or problems to fix, but to say what you say wreaks of ignorance of the significant changes that have occurred only the last 30 years.

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

snip

If you think people are so bad, that is your burden to bear, but it's an ignorant opinion. People are far more accepting of alternate lifestyles than people like give them credit for. If you don't see that, that is on you. I never said there were hurdles to go over, or problems to fix, but to say what you say wreaks of ignorance of the significant changes that have occurred only the last 30 years.

Considering that I have gay and lesbian friends who have lost jobs and housing for their sexuality, considering that I was slowly tortured to keep a job because I was out as trans before my identification caught up to me... That very situation lost me my job... Oh and it being illegal to discriminate on the grounds of sexuality, or really anything else in housing and work? Well guess what? That requires taking legal action, which most people in the LGBTIQ+ community cannot afford. It didn't stop many of my friends, or my self for that matter, from losing jobs, or/and becoming homeless... It hasn't stopped many of the friends I have who lead alternative life styles from being beaten, or persecuted by their friends and families when they came out. The significant changes you cite, are a fiction... You call me, someone whose lived such experiences, someone who knows many, many others who have lived similar and worse experiences ignorant? No, you're the one being ignorant here. If you think the mistreatment has ended because a few laws have passed and a few celebrities are out and in the open with it... You're spouting the same line as people who say racism is over, and it's a line of total and complete isolation from, as well as ignorance of the issues that face people in reality.

 

[Baresark]

If you think people are so bad, that is your burden to bear, but it's an ignorant opinion.

You are talking to a transgender person who has been vocal about being mistreated and discriminated against on the basis of being trans. They know about this more than you do. The average transgender person will know more than you do because they live it every single day. Really, what is so radical about believing what a person group that you're not a part of says they experience?

People are far more accepting of alternate lifestyles than people like give them credit for.

Over a quarter of americans in 2015 think that being gay should be illegal. [http://www.gallup.com/poll/1651/gay-lesbian-rights.aspx] Transgender acceptance is well behind gay acceptance.

You're calling other people ignorant of the facts when you yourself can't tell the difference between a victim of mutilation and a transgender person, let alone ignorance of actual data. Maybe you should listen to people who live this stuff day in and day out rather than calling them ignorant for stating the collective experience of a people group. You don't get to call people ignorant when you're looking at a bricked up window and think you're looking out into the real world.

The issue is that you refuse to accept how much better it has gotten and how it's getting better all the time. In Nigeria that number is 97%, which is most likely what the number was in the US in 1950. Now, more than 3/4's of the US are fully accepting of gay lifestyles and gay rights. But yeah, lets concentrate on the 25% who are literally powerless to stop gay rights because they are in the minority. And as people like you move forward and your lifestyle and situation falls into the more normative spectrum for the average person, it will get better and easier. You raging against a bunch of people on a forum is not going to improve your life though.

No one has ever said that it's easy. That said, I literally had never heard of that Buffalo Bill thing till you brought it up, I read up on it, and I commented on it. Makes me think that you might be spending too much time looking at things that are aimed at hurting you.

I don't care if you are transgender. It literally doesn't mean anything to me. I'm sorry you have to go through the things you have to go through. You should understand that your experiences are not representative of everyone. It's also disingenuous to heap these issues on a few movies over the last 60 years and say that people see those things and believe them as fact. You give too much power to a few movies when the responsibility of those things sits on the shoulders of the bigots who have a problem with people like yourself. I have a large group of friends and I don't know anyone who hates gay people, or dislikes transgender people as a whole.

Also, the fact that it's rogue surgeons giving unwanted sex reassignment surgeries to people doesn't change what it is. They went from male to female. No matter how you spin it, that is a person who is a transsexual (I literally never ever ever said transgender, as there is a well established difference). The fact that the person is an unwilling participant shows just how incredibly contrived the whole plot actually is. I can't help but feel it's not for anything but shock value.

Edit: Oh, I see. I thought you were saying you were transgender. My bad. Clearly my arguments aren't going to change but it's good that I actually understand who you are talking about.

 

[Baresark]

snip

If you think people are so bad, that is your burden to bear, but it's an ignorant opinion. People are far more accepting of alternate lifestyles than people like give them credit for. If you don't see that, that is on you. I never said there were hurdles to go over, or problems to fix, but to say what you say wreaks of ignorance of the significant changes that have occurred only the last 30 years.

Considering that I have gay and lesbian friends who have lost jobs and housing for their sexuality, considering that I was slowly tortured to keep a job because I was out as trans before my identification caught up to me... That very situation lost me my job... Oh and it being illegal to discriminate on the grounds of sexuality, or really anything else in housing and work? Well guess what? That requires taking legal action, which most people in the LGBTIQ+ community cannot afford. It didn't stop many of my friends, or my self for that matter, from losing jobs, or/and becoming homeless... It hasn't stopped many of the friends I have who lead alternative life styles from being beaten, or persecuted by their friends and families when they came out. The significant changes you cite, are a fiction... You call me, someone whose lived such experiences, someone who knows many, many others who have lived similar and worse experiences ignorant? No, you're the one being ignorant here. If you think the mistreatment has ended because a few laws have passed and a few celebrities are out and in the open with it... You're spouting the same line as people who say racism is over, and it's a line of total and complete isolation from, as well as ignorance of the issues that face people in reality.

I never claimed to understand you. I don't claim to understand anything that other people go through. For the record, no one I know would ever do that to someone. I work at a company that doesn't discriminate as there is literally about 20 gay people and one transgender person who works in my building alone (we are a multinational corporation). Hell, at my local diner there is this huge transwoman who is newly out post surgery and she lives a perfectly normal social life (though I can't speak for her home life, clearly). I only know what I see. I'm sorry you and your friends have to go through that. But I am not ready to sit here and label everyone monsters at the word of a single person. I am old enough that I have seen the change happen, seen the improvement, though I know that doesn't mean much to you now, maybe one day it will.

 

[Hero in a half shell]

Technically couldn't the Ace Ventura movie with the American football and the dolphins be described as a "Gender reassignment revenge thriller?"

 

[KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime]

I never claimed to understand you. I don't claim to understand anything that other people go through. For the record, no one I know would ever do that to someone. I work at a company that doesn't discriminate as there is literally about 20 gay people and one transgender person who works in my building alone (we are a multinational corporation). Hell, at my local diner there is this huge transwoman who is newly out post surgery and she lives a perfectly normal social life (though I can't speak for her home life, clearly). I only know what I see. I'm sorry you and your friends have to go through that. But I am not ready to sit here and label everyone monsters at the word of a single person. I am old enough that I have seen the change happen, seen the improvement, though I know that doesn't mean much to you now, maybe one day it will.

Well your experiences are, at the very least, anecdotal, furthermore they represent a scarce minority of people. Twenty two people in total a scientific sample size does not make. Further more you don't even know their day to day issues, the issues that tempt people to put a knife to their arm and cut straight up their ulnar artery. Just because things have become marginally better does not, by any stretch of the imagination, mean that they're good... The progress you cite does not stop trans folk from being raped in alley ways, form being beaten near to death, or out right murdered in cold blood, all just for being trans. It doesn't stop parents from sending their children to "corrective therapy" camps where their children are blatantly tortured, many times to the point of suicide.

Is gay acceptance up? Sure, so is tolerance of gay folk, but that doesn't mean they have it good by any stretch, especially when many still openly discriminate against them. Trans acceptance is far worse off, and trans tolerance doesn't lead acceptance by a significant margin either. To put it in clear terms, a 30 second barf take in response to the outing of a trans person is still considered perfectly fine. For that matter accusing trans people of being rapists, just for being trans, is totally fine. To make a road side freak show in the media of a trans person is totally fine. It's also totally fine that the gay and lesbian community routinely throw the trans community under the bus for their own political needs... In case you missed it, our own supposed allies will betray us at the drop of a hat for a tiny droplet more of tolerance. Not to mention that a huge number of prominent feminists are rabidly against trans folk...

I was amazingly extremely lucky that I happened to have not only understanding family, but a vast majority of accepting friends too, along with access to an accepting and understand psychologist in my young years. Do you know how many other trans people I've met with who had the first two factors, excluding other trans folk they'd met mind you, absolutely none... I don't know a single trans person who is out who hasn't been emotionally, or/and physically abused by their friends and family for being trans. Regarding the ones who aren't out, I don't know a single one who could honestly say their closest friends and family wouldn't at least abandon them for being trans, at very best. That includes friends I know in person and friends I know online.

You came here and dismissed the rampant open transphobia of film and television as not a problem, well it might not be, but it's a symptom of a far larger problem. Not a year has passed for me when at least one trans person I knew committed suicide due to the despair of being isolated from their family and long time friends has caused. Not a year has passed when at least one trans person I know was murdered in cold blood and the perpetrator got off the charges on a gay/transpanic defense. I am so sick of people trying to tell me things are better, because while it might be true, it's not nearly good enough. Every call to me saying that things are better, is a call to shut the mouths of people are suffering for daring to be them selves. Gay and lesbian tolerance is better off now than ever, yet a horrifying number of my homosexual friends have been abandoned and disowned by their friends and family. I scarcely know a trans person who has contact with their family and every, last, single one of them got acceptance years after they were abandoned. That's just regarding the ones that are out. Half of those I know that are still in the closet face possible death at the hands of family members if they come out...

Better simply is not good enough, it's not anywhere remotely close to good enough.

 

[LetalisK]

Gender reassignment being used as a plot device in a schlocky Hollywood film in an incredibly contrived and insulting manner? What!? That doesn't sound like the Hollywood I know! They would never misinterpret or abuse a serious issue for entertainment purposes.

 

[votemarvel]

The film sounds like "The Skin I Live In" (which is excellent by the way) with added action.

I wonder who they are casting as the assassin before the surgery though? I would hope they pick someone who is at least physically similar to Michelle Rodriguez, after all there is only so much surgery can do.

There is potential here for a good movie though. I hope they don't mess it up.

 

[votemarvel]

Except for the fact that the ignorant are the majority. Just for example when the news comes out that I'm trans, the first three questions I generally get asked by a cisgender person are as follows: "Are you gay?". "If I saw you naked would I be able to tell?", and "Does this mean you're a pedophile/chomo?" In order they are, not that person's business, not that person's business and inappropriate, and a grievous insult along with being inappropriate and stupid. It's not a what a few ignorant people think, it's what can easily be crammed down the throats of the ignorant masses, because in fact the majority of people are ignorant on trans folk and trans issues. Period.

Surely the fact that they are asking these questions is a good thing? If they were truly close minded then they would be locked into their prejudice and wouldn't care what you had to say.

I can certainly understand that the questions will make you uncomfortable but I would hope they are coming from a desire to learn, and not to upset.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

Except for the fact that the ignorant are the majority. Just for example when the news comes out that I'm trans, the first three questions I generally get asked by a cisgender person are as follows: "Are you gay?". "If I saw you naked would I be able to tell?", and "Does this mean you're a pedophile/chomo?" In order they are, not that person's business, not that person's business and inappropriate, and a grievous insult along with being inappropriate and stupid. It's not a what a few ignorant people think, it's what can easily be crammed down the throats of the ignorant masses, because in fact the majority of people are ignorant on trans folk and trans issues. Period.

Surely the fact that they are asking these questions is a good thing? If they were truly close minded then they would be locked into their prejudice and wouldn't care what you had to say.

I can certainly understand that the questions will make you uncomfortable but I would hope they are coming from a desire to learn, and not to upset.

Well it depends on what you mean by good thing. Lets say somehow a person finds out some internet friend they have is black, and their first questions are "So you must be really good at basket ball, right?", "What do your genitals look like?", and "Does this mean you rape white women?". Even if it is done in an open minded spirit of inquiry I think you would be hard pressed to spin a person asking those things as good.

And that is all assuming these questions are asked in a fair minded spirit of inquiry and not out of maliciousness.

I was recently told that if a certain family knew I was trans that they would almost certainly shut me out of their lives. I was told this was understandable, fair, and appropriate because people "have to protect their children" and even if I specifically am not a pedophile it is just "fact" that trans people are often that way, so they can't take the risk.

So yes, it is nice that people are at least willing to give us a chance to say "No I won't rape your child" but if they feel the need to ask they rarely believe us.

 

[Oakleigh8]

Personal Conjecture:

I would say that trans issue are definitely not well understood by the genera public. Sensible folks probably would not use a fictional movie as a credible source of trans experiences without additionally doing independent research. The issue is, not a lot of people are sensible. And in a way, mass media shows what is acceptable and what isn't, and how to perceive issues. Not everyone buys into it and its nothing like mind control, but it is a pervasive subtle influence.

As a trans person I feel pretty uncomfortable about this movie. With the exceptions of a few movies that centered on the lives on transgender individuals, most depict trans people in a terrible light: as a punch line, a liar for living their gender, something less than human, even when they pass completely as their identified gender.

My Best Understanding:

Something else too, just to clarify things. There are a lot of interpretations of these terms but I think this is the most prevalent version.

Cross-dresser: person who wears clothes of a gender their don't typically identify as

Transsexual: a person who presents as a gender they typically don't identify as and performs sexual acts while presenting (hence the "sex" in the word)

Transgender: a person who does not identify with their biological sex and gender, and instead they identify as the opposite. This is a prevalent phenomena that is constantly present within the individuals life-time and may increase in intensity as the individual ages (due to the effects of their biological hormones). The feeling of disassociation with gender (and biological sex) is known as gender dysphoria, and it can cause great mental duress.

The intensity and nuance of gender dysphoria depends on the person, but it generally hinders their ability to be a functional member of society. The treatment for gender dysphoria is often therapy and transitioning, which alleviates the disassociation with their body and the gender they are expected to present as due to their biological sex. The treatment is not for being transgender.

Post-transition suicide rates have been noted to be lower than pre-transition suicide rates for transgender people, however they are still higher than the population average.

Personal Conjecture:

I would reckon this is due to a lifetime of mental stress, from gender dysphoria and society stigma, and how transitioning becomes such a focal point in a transgender persons life once they begin that finishing the process leaves a big gaping hole in their goals and ambitions. This is why I think therapy is important throughout the process, so the person is able to have other professional and life goals and ambitions to drive them, so that it is only a part of their experience, that once complete will allow them to continue moving forward and living their life.

Also people are similar but each person has odd peculiarities and mutations, just a part of reproduction and a sufficiently large society. It sucks that I have a few crossed wires in my brain, whether due to genetics, epigenetics in utero, or who knows what, but I am able to be a more functional member of society with the right treatment. Transitioning is a treatment for gender dysphoria, not being transgender.

Seems like there are a lot more transgender people nowadays, well we've always been here. It's just we either transitioned successfully, transitioned poorly and were noticeable/committed suicide/lived entire life with severe depression, or didn't transition and committed suicide/lived entire life with severe depression. Fun fun fun. At least now people are feeling more comfortable with being who they are without the fear of death or violence. Which I think is good, society should try to enable it's members to be as effective as they can be, within reasonable resource allocations, so they can provide benefits to society (i.e. taxes, volunteering, etc)

A great deal of the mental duress I have experienced comes from how society handles my issue and treats people like me. It definitely compounds the stress of gender dysphoria. Once I started transitioning and began taking estrogen, I felt very different. I had more energy than before, colors seemed brighter, smell more prominent, and for the first time in my life the way I felt was just right, although my body was still not. It went a long way to alleviating a lot of the stress I carried from being transgender, and the process of transitioning has continued to do so. In a way it was like my brain was an engine that was built for running gasoline but was given diesel fuel.

So yeah being transgender sucks, and it has gotten better. But just because things have improved doesn't mean people should shut up about it because it's not something someone wants to hear. There is still a long way to go not only for trans people, but for a variety of folks. And we on the shit end of the stick have to work hard too, we can't just sit around complaining and hoping for people to fix it. It's a two way street, we have to be the change we wanna see, and we have to set a high standard to get the positive attention and respect that'll improve things.

TLDR; I didn't choose the thug life, the thug life chose me.

(P.S. I had no intention of coming across as condescending or demanding, and if that is how the previous passage is interpreted then I am disappointed in my composition. This was only intended as a mix of my knowledge and personal views and experiences on the issue. There was no intention of judging or attack other posters, rather it was an attempt to explain and inform in a helpful and personable manner)

 

[votemarvel]

Well it depends on what you mean by good thing. Lets say somehow a person finds out some internet friend they have is black, and their first questions are "So you must be really good at basket ball, right?", "What do your genitals look like?", and "Does this mean you rape white women?". Even if it is done in an open minded spirit of inquiry I think you would be hard pressed to spin a person asking those things as good.

And that is all assuming these questions are asked in a fair minded spirit of inquiry and not out of maliciousness.

I was recently told that if a certain family knew I was trans that they would almost certainly shut me out of their lives. I was told this was understandable, fair, and appropriate because people "have to protect their children" and even if I specifically am not a pedophile it is just "fact" that trans people are often that way, so they can't take the risk.

So yes, it is nice that people are at least willing to give us a chance to say "No I won't rape your child" but if they feel the need to ask they rarely believe us.

But how do people find out more without asking questions? Quite often prejudice is simply born from a lack of knowledge.

Perhaps I am looking at them asking questions as a positive thing. I suppose I'd just like to think the good in people for a change.

 

[ThatOtherGirl]

Well it depends on what you mean by good thing. Lets say somehow a person finds out some internet friend they have is black, and their first questions are "So you must be really good at basket ball, right?", "What do your genitals look like?", and "Does this mean you rape white women?". Even if it is done in an open minded spirit of inquiry I think you would be hard pressed to spin a person asking those things as good.

And that is all assuming these questions are asked in a fair minded spirit of inquiry and not out of maliciousness.

I was recently told that if a certain family knew I was trans that they would almost certainly shut me out of their lives. I was told this was understandable, fair, and appropriate because people "have to protect their children" and even if I specifically am not a pedophile it is just "fact" that trans people are often that way, so they can't take the risk.

So yes, it is nice that people are at least willing to give us a chance to say "No I won't rape your child" but if they feel the need to ask they rarely believe us.

But how do people find out more without asking questions? Quite often prejudice is simply born from a lack of knowledge.

Perhaps I am looking at them asking questions as a positive thing. I suppose I'd just like to think the good in people for a change.

Like I said, it is nice people are actually asking the question at this point. Whether or not it is motivated by a desire to learn and understand varies from individual to individual. Some are actively being malicious with questions like that. Others are just ignorant. Some are looking for an excuse to hate you. But lets just assume everyone who asks things like that is sincere and just trying to understand.

Yes, it is strictly better that they ask (even if they are just going to not believe you) than if they just assume you are a pedophile. But strictly better is not the same thing as good. When you confide in someone you have known very well (like a sibling) for 25 years that you are trans and the first thing they ask is "Are you a pedophile?" it is a bad thing. They know you, they have spent 25 years getting to know you. But all of that goes out of the window because they heard that trans people are perverts that will rape their children. The fact that prejudice, ignorance, and hearsay has so much sway that it overrides or at least equals years of personal experience with a person is not a good thing.

The problem is not that they ask the question. The asking is good and is a sign of improvement as you recognize. I am so glad people ask now instead of just assume. It is worlds better than it was even a few years ago.

The problem is that the fact they even need to ask (and in particular that it is the very first thing that jumps to mind) indicates the pervasiveness of prejudice and ignorance and how much sway negative and misleading portrayals of trans people have.

TLR Them being willing to ask the question is good. That they have to ask the question is bad.

 

[Jingle Fett]

I don't see the problem with this. Transgender people suffer from gender dysphoria so they want to change their bodies so they no longer have the dysphoria. Well the protagonist of this movie has his body changed by the mob--which inherently causes gender dysphoria because his body no longer matches his mental gender.

If anything the LGBT community should be applauding this movie since it's a chance for cis people to get a better idea of what gender dysphoria feels like.

 

[IamLEAM1983]

I tried outrage when I first read this, and then I realized that this movie isn't being made to further the Trans cause. It's being made to disturb a particular segment of the cisgendered populace that might look at this plotline and go "Gender reassignment surgery equals Body Horror!" The fact that this transition is unwanted is also a concern, but then I'd just accuse the screenwriters of shitting out a mob-centric actiony take on "The Skin I Live In".

"La Piel Que Me Habito" takes this same basic premise and actually does something sensible with it. Sensible, yes, and accurately horrifying.